Unanswered Alternatives to DHB for dry muscle gains?

SpicedCider

SpicedCider

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
I have been running a cycle of DHB + test prop + Anavar (ran out of Anavar a few weeks ago) since late April and have gotten to the point of being so crippled by the PIP that I don't think I can even force myself to inject the last two doses of DHB. I really like the results I've had so far, but the PIP has gotten to the point of being so bad that I can hardly walk, run, or sleep in any position at night except for on my back. People at work and school are starting to question why I'm walking so funny and I can hardly get my shoes on in the morning.

Having said all that, are there any other steroids out there that are known for promoting dry, lean muscle gains? I don't mind injecting but I don't want to be near-crippled for basically months at a time. It seems like the most obvious choice would be Primobolan + Anavar or Turinabol, but I can't afford to spend the money that it would cost to run a proper cycle of Primo right now. Is there anything else out there aside from DHB and Primo? Also don't want to mess with Tren right now because of the mental/psychological side effects.

Thanks
 
ItalOne

ItalOne

Member
Awards
3
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • Established
What kind of gains did you make in the last 3 and a half months? Strength, size, weight?
 
Hyde

Hyde

Legend
Awards
5
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
Boldenone homie.

Or big doses of Masteron if you’re lean enough to show it.
 
steve0178

steve0178

Member
Awards
1
  • First Up Vote
Without a doubt, primo. It's comparable to dhb imo. Primo E is typically better tolerated for pip than acetate. Boldenone is another good one. You already listed anavar. You're looking for compounds that are highly anabolic and less androgenic.
 
SpicedCider

SpicedCider

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
What kind of gains did you make in the last 3 and a half months? Strength, size, weight?
Well, it was more like 2.5 months, but the situation is a little complicated -- about a week after starting the cycle in April, I had to stop working out for almost 2 weeks because of a hematoma (unrelated to steroids/lifting) although I continued to inject the DHB. And then after being back in the gym for exactly 11 days, I had to go out of town for 2 weeks for school and wasn't able to work out as much or follow as strict of a diet during that time period. So yeah, the beginning of the cycle was a bit rough. My weight on the scale has gone up by about 7 pounds, but the thing is, I have gotten MUCH leaner -- I'm guessing this is from the Anavar -- to the point that I basically have abs (and those diagonal "lines next to the obliques that super-lean guys have) for the first time in my life, so there was definitely a good bit of fat loss as well. I would say that I've gained at least 10-11 pounds when fat loss is taken into consideration?

Damn 3 and a half month of DHB lol.. dude is a soldier! Ever tried Tren?
LOL, I'm trying to force myself to inject the last two shots of DHB, but the thought of it literally makes me feel sick to my stomach. I haven't tried Tren; the only reason I'm avoiding it is because of the psychological side effects. I already have naturally low self-esteem and a somewhat negative outlook, so I'm not sure if I have the right "type" of mind to handle tren.

Boldenone homie.

Or big doses of Masteron if you’re lean enough to show it.
Boldenone is probably going to be the most likely choice for my next cycle, simply because it's so affordable. Kind of scared to take high-dose Masteron because of the risk of hair loss.

Without a doubt, primo. It's comparable to dhb imo. Primo E is typically better tolerated for pip than acetate. Boldenone is another good one. You already listed anavar. You're looking for compounds that are highly anabolic and less androgenic.
Yeah, I would 100% choose Primo for my next cycle if it wasn't so expensive. My source is pretty cheap, but even a primo cycle purchased through them would cost in the thousands range. Boldenone is probably going to be my best bet, simply because of how affordable it is as compared to Primo. However, boldenone is generally regarded as being less anabolic than DHB, right?
 
ItalOne

ItalOne

Member
Awards
3
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • Established
Well, it was more like 2.5 months, but the situation is a little complicated -- about a week after starting the cycle in April, I had to stop working out for almost 2 weeks because of a hematoma (unrelated to steroids/lifting) although I continued to inject the DHB. And then after being back in the gym for exactly 11 days, I had to go out of town for 2 weeks for school and wasn't able to work out as much or follow as strict of a diet during that time period. So yeah, the beginning of the cycle was a bit rough. My weight on the scale has gone up by about 7 pounds, but the thing is, I have gotten MUCH leaner -- I'm guessing this is from the Anavar -- to the point that I basically have abs (and those diagonal "lines next to the obliques that super-lean guys have) for the first time in my life, so there was definitely a good bit of fat loss as well. I would say that I've gained at least 10-11 pounds when fat loss is taken into consideration?



LOL, I'm trying to force myself to inject the last two shots of DHB, but the thought of it literally makes me feel sick to my stomach. I haven't tried Tren; the only reason I'm avoiding it is because of the psychological side effects. I already have naturally low self-esteem and a somewhat negative outlook, so I'm not sure if I have the right "type" of mind to handle tren.



Boldenone is probably going to be the most likely choice for my next cycle, simply because it's so affordable. Kind of scared to take high-dose Masteron because of the risk of hair loss.



Yeah, I would 100% choose Primo for my next cycle if it wasn't so expensive. My source is pretty cheap, but even a primo cycle purchased through them would cost in the thousands range. Boldenone is probably going to be my best bet, simply because of how affordable it is as compared to Primo. However, boldenone is generally regarded as being less anabolic than DHB, right?
Those are some solid gains congrats! I had a couple unsuccessful DHB runs and I’m righting it off for now. As far as the primo goes it’s not that expensive, ha but it’s one of the few AAS I’ve yet to run, so I’m excited to give it a go. My guy has it $60 for 150mg/ml. So I’m thinking 16 weeks obviously test, but with NPP on the front end, anavar on the back end. I’m gonna keep the primo around 600-700mg.
EQ was great for gym endurance and nice muscle separation. I think you’ll like it!
 
steve0178

steve0178

Member
Awards
1
  • First Up Vote
Well, it was more like 2.5 months, but the situation is a little complicated -- about a week after starting the cycle in April, I had to stop working out for almost 2 weeks because of a hematoma (unrelated to steroids/lifting) although I continued to inject the DHB. And then after being back in the gym for exactly 11 days, I had to go out of town for 2 weeks for school and wasn't able to work out as much or follow as strict of a diet during that time period. So yeah, the beginning of the cycle was a bit rough. My weight on the scale has gone up by about 7 pounds, but the thing is, I have gotten MUCH leaner -- I'm guessing this is from the Anavar -- to the point that I basically have abs (and those diagonal "lines next to the obliques that super-lean guys have) for the first time in my life, so there was definitely a good bit of fat loss as well. I would say that I've gained at least 10-11 pounds when fat loss is taken into consideration?



LOL, I'm trying to force myself to inject the last two shots of DHB, but the thought of it literally makes me feel sick to my stomach. I haven't tried Tren; the only reason I'm avoiding it is because of the psychological side effects. I already have naturally low self-esteem and a somewhat negative outlook, so I'm not sure if I have the right "type" of mind to handle tren.



Boldenone is probably going to be the most likely choice for my next cycle, simply because it's so affordable. Kind of scared to take high-dose Masteron because of the risk of hair loss.



Yeah, I would 100% choose Primo for my next cycle if it wasn't so expensive. My source is pretty cheap, but even a primo cycle purchased through them would cost in the thousands range. Boldenone is probably going to be my best bet, simply because of how affordable it is as compared to Primo. However, boldenone is generally regarded as being less anabolic than DHB, right?
Yes it is. Bold is very mild in my opinion. If you can afford to the the primo route, even at a lower dose, it's totally worth it. It's hands down, my favorite compound. But I value slow lean gains and health over quick watery gains and potential health problems.
 
SpicedCider

SpicedCider

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
Those are some solid gains congrats! I had a couple unsuccessful DHB runs and I’m righting it off for now. As far as the primo goes it’s not that expensive, ha but it’s one of the few AAS I’ve yet to run, so I’m excited to give it a go. My guy has it $60 for 150mg/ml. So I’m thinking 16 weeks obviously test, but with NPP on the front end, anavar on the back end. I’m gonna keep the primo around 600-700mg.
EQ was great for gym endurance and nice muscle separation. I think you’ll like it!
Thanks! Combined with the Anavar, it really gave me a good "dry" look, which is what I'm going for. I've never been a fan of the puffy high-water-weight look. Also, what I really liked about combining it with Anavar is that it got me closer to having that "fitness model" look than I've ever been in my life. $60 for 150 mg/ml is really cheap. Is that for 10 ml vials? If you don't mind, could you send me a PM @ItalOne with info on your supplier? (assuming you feel comfortable doing so). Thanks

Yes it is. Bold is very mild in my opinion. If you can afford to the the primo route, even at a lower dose, it's totally worth it. It's hands down, my favorite compound. But I value slow lean gains and health over quick watery gains and potential health problems.
Actually, it looks like (at my current supplier's prices) a 12-week cycle of Primo at 600 mg/wk wouldn't be nearly as expensive as I had originally thought. Is 600 mg/wk for 12 weeks (in combination with an oral like Anavar or Turinabol for maybe 8 weeks) a high-enough dose and a long-enough cycle? Or does Primo need to be run for at least 16 weeks? Thanks
 
Matthersby

Matthersby

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
Dienolone put very little on me but if you can tolerate a mild-like Tren dose, go to 550/week with a good DHT like Winnie or msten , since they can still put decent muscle on. Or high dose Var or low dose SD. If you like DMZ it paired well with dien for me but nothing crazy in gains, vascularity did increase and I rounded out well. Stomach looked great
 
Matthersby

Matthersby

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
Or a very fun one NPP or Trest (both very dry alongside DHT and after the first few weeks with low sodium and moderate carbs) with Proviron, Var and just a smidge of injectable SD.

Gawd that sounds sexy
 
steve0178

steve0178

Member
Awards
1
  • First Up Vote
Thanks! Combined with the Anavar, it really gave me a good "dry" look, which is what I'm going for. I've never been a fan of the puffy high-water-weight look. Also, what I really liked about combining it with Anavar is that it got me closer to having that "fitness model" look than I've ever been in my life. $60 for 150 mg/ml is really cheap. Is that for 10 ml vials? If you don't mind, could you send me a PM @ItalOne with info on your supplier? (assuming you feel comfortable doing so). Thanks



Actually, it looks like (at my current supplier's prices) a 12-week cycle of Primo at 600 mg/wk wouldn't be nearly as expensive as I had originally thought. Is 600 mg/wk for 12 weeks (in combination with an oral like Anavar or Turinabol for maybe 8 weeks) a high-enough dose and a long-enough cycle? Or does Primo need to be run for at least 16 weeks? Thanks
12 weeks at 600 is actually pretty middle of the road type of dose. I've seen gains as low as 200, but obviously 600 is way better. You see people going up to a thousand, but that's just because they're trying to replicate other compounds. Primo is different. It's not going to put on a lot of mass very quickly, but everything it puts on is pure muscle. I also find it has a leaning effect.
 
Jinsun

Jinsun

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
I wouldn't use mast at high doses. Even 200mg's made me to hyper to sleep. This is just me though, I have troubles sleeping as is.

How are you sleeping on DHB?
 
Hyde

Hyde

Legend
Awards
5
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
I wouldn't use mast at high doses. Even 200mg's made me to hyper to sleep. This is just me though, I have troubles sleeping as is.

How are you sleeping on DHB?
By all accounts it’s best cutting and hardening for a show primarily
 
Jinsun

Jinsun

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
By all accounts it’s best cutting and hardening for a show primarily

I mean, it sure has it's uses; strength, energy, aggression, recovery ... but if you ask me, it's basically just a more androgenic version of all other DHT's (less anabolic, less nutrient partitioning, more mental sides ...) - and if it was oral only, imo it wouldn't make much sense in using it at all, compared to other DHT's. Funny though, SD is basically the oral version of mast and it's one of the most anabolic aas out there hehe
 
BarryScott

BarryScott

Member
Awards
2
  • First Up Vote
  • Established
I mean, it sure has it's uses; strength, energy, aggression, recovery ... but if you ask me, it's basically just a more androgenic version of all other DHT's (less anabolic, less nutrient partitioning, more mental sides ...) - and if it was oral only, imo it wouldn't make much sense in using it at all, compared to other DHT's. Funny though, SD is basically the oral version of mast and it's one of the most anabolic aas out there hehe
Something I find interesting is that 19nors are basically testosterone altered to be less androgenic, but in bodybuilding usage the first thing a lot of people do is stack it with a dht like mast. Which of course make sense in the real world but seems counterintuitive on paper.

But it does make me wonder if the guys that just bulk on ultra-high test dosages (2-3g pw) rather than using tren and deca have a point.
 
Godstrength

Godstrength

Board Sponsor
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
I mean, it sure has it's uses; strength, energy, aggression, recovery ... but if you ask me, it's basically just a more androgenic version of all other DHT's (less anabolic, less nutrient partitioning, more mental sides ...) - and if it was oral only, imo it wouldn't make much sense in using it at all, compared to other DHT's. Funny though, SD is basically the oral version of mast and it's one of the most anabolic aas out there hehe
It has its uses. I'm coming off a back injury and wanting to heal as much as possible. I'm on a mid range bulk using mk677, dbol and test. I specifically wanted and introduced masteron at 250/week to reduce water retention and mitigate estrogen sides from the dbol. Remember masteron was approved for use as a breast cancer drug for women. Id rather not use an ai because they're horrible for drying out and weakening ligaments, tendons etc. which is counter prpductive to what I'm trying to do.

The mast is working like a charm. Knocking off excess water, hardening me back up and no ai. And I'm steady putting on size without the classic dbol, test look. This is where knowing how you respond individually to compounds is an asset in knowing when and how to use them according to your goals. Not just bro science that says mast is only good for contests or if your below a certain body fat. But real working world experience with the compounds in question. I personally love mast but you just have to know how and when to incorporate and for what purpose.

I do agree with @ItalOne
Nothing beats primo for slow quality lean mass gains. If it is more about quality than quantity then primo is king.
 
Last edited:
Jinsun

Jinsun

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
This is where knowing how you respond individually to compounds is an asset in knowing when and how to use them according to your goals. Not just bro science that says mast is only good for contests or if your below a certain body fat. But real working world experience with the compounds in question. I personally love mast but you just have to know how and when to incorporate and for what purpose.
Yeah, off course, I agree. Didn't want to write up a long winded post about all it's uses and what not.

But regarding estrogen control, I mean ... what do Ai's do to your tendons?? Mast has anti e properties sure, it works a bit differently then Ai's, but it's far from ideal compared to Ai's. I find using Ai's more then adequate for e2 control. No need to complicate with mast. Mast was used for e2 before we had Ai's, using it now for that purpose is IMO a bit dogmatic, hipster-ish hehe Also you'll have to use a lot of it, to control estrogen on cycles that aren't just TRT.

For me, mast just add's it's own set of sides that Ai's don't. Specifically mental ones. If you are on a 500 mg's or higher dose of test, that alone convert's to all the pure DHT I can handle, no need for me to add more. Let alone combine it with dbol. I would go insane, chopping heads off, not sleeping for days, heh. To each his own. For me, it's not worth it. Yeah, it's not expensive compared to primo or DHB, but it's sides compared to benefits doesn't make much sense to me.
 
Godstrength

Godstrength

Board Sponsor
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
Yeah, off course, I agree. Didn't want to write up a long winded post about all it's uses and what not.

But regarding estrogen control, I mean ... what do Ai's do to your tendons?? Mast has anti e properties sure, it works a bit differently then Ai's, but it's far from ideal compared to Ai's. I find using Ai's more then adequate for e2 control. No need to complicate with mast. Mast was used for e2 before we had Ai's, using it now for that purpose is IMO a bit dogmatic, hipster-ish hehe Also you'll have to use a lot of it, to control estrogen on cycles that aren't just TRT.

For me, mast just add's it's own set of sides that Ai's don't. Specifically mental ones. If you are on a 500 mg's or higher dose of test, that alone convert's to all the pure DHT I can handle, no need for me to add more. Let alone combine it with dbol. I would go insane, chopping heads off, not sleeping for days, heh. To each his own. For me, it's not worth it. Yeah, it's not expensive compared to primo or DHB, but it's sides compared to benefits doesn't make much sense to me.
I totally get it man and I'm not against AI use but personally for me I'd rather not use them. The only side I really get from masteron is high blood pressure after about four weeks on at a moderate-high dose. Other than that I just feel great on it for me personally its a feel good compound that goes great with test. That said I run moderate doses I don't run anything really high any longer.

My cycle is
300 test e
250 mast e
25mg/day dbol
Mk677 12.5 mg 5x/week.

What a lot of people don't really know or realize is AIs and serms really have a lot of serious side effects. Personally I'd say just as bad as a lot of steroids. And for what purpose only to control a little bit of estrogen which you need in order to grow anyhow.



@hairygrandpa recently has experience carpal tunnel syndrome which he attributed to the use of the ai's. A lot of people just don't really know how these compounds affect them because they haven't had enough experience and sensitivity to understanding the set of side effects that they bring. Another one that I absolutely can't stand is the brain fog that comes from serms and AIs both.

As you said to each their own and I'm just saying in my instance masteron is a great drug for hardening and can be used in place of an AI. I'm on dbol and test and it's working great. Also a lot of people understand that using 19 NORs like trest or deca a DHT like proviron or masteron is super helpful to control a lot of the side effects that come along with it. Again this is people with real world experience not what it looks like on paper. Finding that certain dhts can help mitigate estrogen related side effects in conjunction with or even better than other drugs.
Screenshot_2019-07-21-19-26-33.jpeg


Here's one small snippet about how a ai's affect the joints. Personally my back related injury was from degenerative discs so a ai's for me or a no-go unless absolutely necessary because they do what's mentioned above. They're horrible for your joints and ligaments.
 
Last edited:
steve0178

steve0178

Member
Awards
1
  • First Up Vote
I totally get it man and I'm not against AI use but personally for me I'd rather not use them. The only side I really get from masteron is high blood pressure after about four weeks on at a moderate-high dose. Other than that I just feel great on it for me personally its a feel good compound that goes great with test. That said I run moderate doses I don't run anything really high any longer.

My cycle is
300 test e
250 mast e
25mg/day dbol
Mk677 12.5 mg 5x/week.

What a lot of people don't really know or realize is AIs and serms really have a lot of serious side effects. Personally I'd say just as bad as a lot of steroids. And for what purpose only to control a little bit of estrogen which you need in order to grow anyhow.



@hairygrandpa recently has experience carpal tunnel syndrome which he attributed to the use of the ai's. A lot of people just don't really know how these compounds affect them because they haven't had enough experience and sensitivity to understanding the set of side effects that they bring. Another one that I absolutely can't stand is the brain fog that comes from serms and AIs both.

As you said to each their own and I'm just saying in my instance masteron is a great drug for hardening and can be used in place of an AI. I'm on dbol and test and it's working great. Also a lot of people understand that using 19 NORs like trest or deca a DHT like proviron or masteron is super helpful to control a lot of the side effects that come along with it. Again this is people with real world experience not what it looks like on paper. Finding that certain dhts can help mitigate estrogen related side effects in conjunction with or even better than other drugs.View attachment 184911

Here's one small snippet about how a ai's affect the joints. Personally my back related injury was from degenerative discs so a ai's for me or a no-go unless absolutely necessary because they do what's mentioned above. They're horrible for your joints and ligaments.
I agree. It's best to control estrogen, not eliminate it. Some estrogen is good. It increases igf-1 levels from what I understand. Ideally blood work to see exactly where you are is the best route to go. I think whether or not you might need an AI depends on the person.
 
Jinsun

Jinsun

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
Here's one small snippet about how a ai's affect the joints. Personally my back related injury was from degenerative discs so a ai's for me or a no-go unless absolutely necessary because they do what's mentioned above. They're horrible for your joints and ligaments.
Yeah, those all just look like crashed e2 problems... If you keep e2 in normal range, which we all mostly do, then you shouldn't really experience those sides. Joint and tendon problems are sinonimus with low estrogen.
 
Hyde

Hyde

Legend
Awards
5
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
Yeah, those all just look like crashed e2 problems... If you keep e2 in normal range, which we all mostly do, then you shouldn't really experience those sides. Joint and tendon problems are sinonimus with low estrogen.
Indeed. Like most of this stuff, the poison is in the dosage.

Compare what tren hex was sold at (mg/ampule) to these idiots trying to get up to a gram/week. If it can be used, it will be abused by some.
 

Similar threads


Top