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Alright, the time is NOW!

ChemicalD

Have you seen my stapler???
OK,
So I have been meaning to start my one and only PH cycle, consisting of 4AD, 1-T, and 1AD.

But...
I have done a lot of reading on how when one runs PH's when not quite lean enough, PCT will bring the E-fairy
along with some more fat.

This is no good.
So I am deciding to run a quick 28 day cut with clen/then whatever stims i got from the Arnold.

My question pertains to weight training while on clen:

Stats (after approximately 4 years hapharzard(I mean hap-HAZARD) training, 6 months of quality training):
height 5'8", 180 lbs.
DL: 300x2
S: 280x1
B: 225x1

I use a 5 day split with no cardio.

My question is...how should my split be tweaked as to avoid excessive muscle and strength loss?
A four day split?
I plan on doing cardio pre-breakfast at 65-80% intensity at least 5 days a week.
I just don't know which training sessions/exercises to combine to avoid strength loss. I have never actually 'cut' before in an educated manner, so I want to get the most out of my efforts (who doesn't).


I used the search function but I want the experts' opinions. C'mon LO....

Any info on training slipt and/or diet composition (mine has been in check for a while now, but I am constantly improving).

Oh yeah, got plenty of Taurine and Bananas.Invalid Link Removed

Thanks in advance.
 
just because they are ph's doesn't mean they will cause more estrogen then aas. estrogenic fat deposits are not really a big concern post cycle anyways. fat gain is more common on cycle since you are taking in surplus calories in most cases or are using a drug like anadrol. really, the fat you put on will be diet dependent.
 
hethcliff said:
just because they are ph's doesn't mean they will cause more estrogen then aas. estrogenic fat deposits are not really a big concern post cycle anyways. fat gain is more common on cycle since you are taking in surplus calories in most cases or are using a drug like anadrol. really, the fat you put on will be diet dependent.
Click to expand...
But...am I misinformed about easier LBM gains when BF is in check?
 
ok, good to see u planning to lose the unwanted fat before u go on ur phs .
I plan on doing cardio pre-breakfast at 65-80% intensity at least 5 days a week.
I just don't know which training sessions/exercises to combine to avoid strength loss. I have never actually 'cut' before in an educated manner, so I want to get the most out of my efforts (who doesn't).
Click to expand...

4 days a week of workout will be fine, keep the medium intensity, no drop sets, or sets to failure, dont do pussy exercises which u learn from magazines, dont train unwanted muscles or small ones, dont stay in the gym for longer than 40 mins... start with 4 days a week of cardio and then maybe u can up it to 5 days a week for the next 2 weeks.
btw, lay off the bananas, taurine is enough.

But...am I misinformed about easier LBM gains when BF is in check?
Click to expand...

whatever it is, gains will look better even if they are little when u are lean, so no matter what happens, its good to lose the flubber first.
 
raybravo:
Thanks for the response.
Basically, I do no or few lifts that are out of mags.
I stick to the man makers, and I have access to freeweights only.
My thing is, for example on Deads, I usually do sets of 5 at 255. I do 5 sets.
I never have done drop sets or to failure.
So instead of a 5 day split like....
Back, Chest, Legs, Arms, Shoulders
I should...???
I don't know. I love my five day split. The heavy days (Chest back legs)
are heavy, the lights/supplementals (arms shoulders) are light.
So what do I combine???
I will elaborate.
(typical)
Back-Deads, Bent over rows, shrugs, chins
Chest-flat bbell, incline dbell, flat dbell, pullovers
Legs-squats, RDLs, extensions, curls
Arms (bi's tris forearms): 2, 2, 1
Shoulders: lots.

I don't want my heavy lifts to go down.
I guess i will just have to see how bad the cramps get and how much energy I have. I want more suggestions though so i can tailor my program better.

Damn I need to be in the sun instead of the snow...
 
this isn't completely relavent but you said deadlifts, and i LOVE deadlifts :)

instead of doing 5 sets of 5 with the same weight try doing something like 5, 5, 3, 3, 3, 1, 1, 1. not maxing out but going heavier each set. it really helped me get more weight up and build up my back.
 
hethcliff said:
this isn't completely relavent but you said deadlifts, and i LOVE deadlifts :)

instead of doing 5 sets of 5 with the same weight try doing something like 5, 5, 3, 3, 3, 1, 1, 1. not maxing out but going heavier each set. it really helped me get more weight up and build up my back.
Click to expand...
Oh man, I love deadlifts too!
I fact, my shins are soaking my jeans with blood as we speak!!!
I'll give your idea a try next monday.
 
ChemicalD said:
Oh man, I love deadlifts too!
I fact, my shins are soaking my jeans with blood as we speak!!!
I'll give your idea a try next monday.
Click to expand...


i think you'll like it. its satisfying putting up big wieght on deads :)
 
well, lemme give u few examples:
for back u could get away with deadlifts, and chins, if u want, go ahead and do bent over rows, cut out the shrugs during this period..
for chest, just do flat barbell and incline db presses...
for hammies, just do stiff leg deads or curls, one of them, and just squats for legs...
and i'd stop training biceps too much, something on the preacher bench is fine, triceps just do dips and extensions, thats enough...
for shoulders, just 1 exercise for the lateral head and the front delts..
i think the volume ure using, especially for ur upper body maybe too much and will only lead to muscle loss here..
the cramps wont be there if u use an electrolyte drink and some taurine btw.
so what should u do now?

just go 4 days a week like this:
monday -chest and shoulders.

tuesday- legs and calves

wednesday and thursday off

fri - back

saturday triceps and biceps

train abs on all 4 days , should be enough .

and how to train, warm up with 2 sets, then do 3-4 sets at 75 % or so of ur 1 RM, i think most people get atleast close to 8+ reps there, and thats a good place to be....the exercises are few, the working sets shouldnt go beyond 6 for the bigger muscles and 3 for the smaller ones..
saturday- triceps, biceps
 
heath, ray thanks.

I am going to adopt the program you outlined ray, maybe switching resting/working days around.
So then, cardio on off days and one working day or light working days(i.e. upper body) and one or two off days.??
The leg workout wont be hard cause most leg days I only get through squats, SLDLs and seated calf-raises. Bis and Tris....well, I guess i needed someone to tell me its ok to let them go. I laugh at a bi/tri workout anyway b/c it's sooooo easy compared to other days.
Shoulders: I will tone them down but am currently working to rebuild the right front delt so maybe i will stick to 1-2 pressing and one raising motions.

I sincerely appreciate the advice.

An update: today is day two: cardio went OK. Up to 40 ug (mcg) this morning...definately different than 20 ug. More shakes, more warm feeling, more cramps.
And hopefully more fat cells dissappearing.

Well, gotta go take some H2O and taurine.
 
Hell yeah!
Man, cardio yesterday was enjoyable. Chest workout was great.. Could've gone 60 mins but stuck with raybravo and went 40, then 20 mins cardio. Decided to stick with 40 ug today.
Most likely will bump it up again tomorrow.

Thanks again guys.

I'll keep us posted.
 
Quick question to all:

Anyone know/heard of clen making your stomach feel funny.
e.g., I always feel 'empty', hungry, but I don't feel like eating and when I do it is never satiating.
I am wondering if this is just part of the research or what.
Input or experiences will be appreciated.
 
Just to update.

Stopped clen day 6.

The sides weren't bad. I could handle the jitters, incresead body temperature, the cold sweats, the cramps, the shitty sleeping.
What I could not handle was the fatigue. Even after incorporating raybravo and others' training tips I was overtrained by Friday, and chalked it up as a loss Saturday. I work usually 600-1500 everyday, and workout around 1600. By 1600 my body was so fatigued from the clen doing its magic that my workouts were underproductive and disheartening.

Guess I'll have to try it when I grow some more hair on my balls, and can tough it out.

A positive note was that because of the clen i got off my behind and ran, 4 days last week, and feel great because of it. I figure instead of trying to rush this, I will toughen my candy-ass by running or doing cardio 4 times a week until i can wash my stinky boxer breifs on my abs.

Thanks for all the help guys.
 
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