drswsdc
Active Member
Slight revive here - does alpha four need a PCT? Say at 2-3 pumps per day?
ALPHA FOUR reviews
- Thread starter thebigt
- Start date
Slight revive here - does alpha four need a PCT? Say at 2-3 pumps per day?
ZLB70
Active Member
Does it NEED one, probably not, but it’s probably recommended
KvanH
Well-known member
Unfortunately our good friend thebigt isn't with us anymore.
But only bloodwork would really tell, if you'll need a PCT. On another note, what are you looking to get with only 2-3 pumps of A4? Opinions may vary, but I personally wouldn't do a 4-Andro only cycle, since I feel it more or less would just replace my natural test production and I'd be suppressed with no benefit. Now, A4 also has Androsterone, which would make it more worthwile. Still, I personally consider 4-Andro (and especially A4) as a great base product to bring some test and estrogen, when you're getting suppressed by another compound.
So I would much rather stack the A4 with something myself. And you'd have a lot of options. 1-Andro for pretty nice strenght and anabolism. Or Ultra Epi = Epiandro, for strenght, hardness, energy, libido. Ultra 11 = 11-ketotestosterone (if still available somewhere) for fat loss and muscle retention. Ultra Hard = Androsterone+Epiandrosterone is an option aswell, although since A4 has Androsterone, I'd rather pick Ultra Epi.
And if doing one of those stacks, then yes, a PCT would be highly recommended.
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delsolrob
Board Sponsor
Allhealsonme
Active Member
I am on day 7 of my Alpha Four and Icon One run. It’s been 10+ years since I’ve done anything hormonal, so I am eager to see how these products compare to what I’ve used in the past.
Csvt1994
Active Member
Nice ! Definitely keep us updated
delsolrob
Board Sponsor
I love the feeling of running Alpha Four - to me this is one of those products that I just feel amazing running!
Allhealsonme
Active Member
Today marks my 20th day of both Icon one and Alpha Four. I have decided to lower my dose of Icon One due to lethargy being a bit higher than I anticipated. I am continuing on with 5 pumps of alpha four and sticking to 3 of Icon one. I feel as though Libido has actually decreased, which I am wondering if that is tied into the lethargy? Hopefully a few more days of my new dosage protocol and things will get better. I am noticing more muscle fullness so something is working.
Bigbri01
Active Member
Is alpha 4 still available?
delsolrob
Board Sponsor
you can still get it
Csvt1994
Active Member
Hello. I just finished my first bottle of Alpha 4. It is as good as advertised. I’ve noticed some really good daily energy and sense of well being, an increase in libido, and much better muscle fullness, some strength gains as well.
I dosed this at 4 pumps a day on non workout days. And 6 pumps on workout days. On work out days I would do 4 pumps am and 2 pumps PM a hr before my workout. I will be starting my second bottle tomorrow.
I dosed this at 4 pumps a day on non workout days. And 6 pumps on workout days. On work out days I would do 4 pumps am and 2 pumps PM a hr before my workout. I will be starting my second bottle tomorrow.
Allhealsonme
Active Member
I’m almost finished with my 2nd bottle of Alpha 4 / Icon One and it seems like I may be an outlier in regards to most of the effects. I have slightly more muscle fullness and feel less stressed which certainly is a plus, however I can’t say I’ve noticed anything out of the ordinary.
Csvt1994
Active Member
I’m 15 days into my second bottle of Alpha 4. I just did some blood work to check T levels and compare to last yr, When I was off all supplements completely. The results are interesting and I’m not really sure if I really believe the number.
The day of the blood test I did 3 pumps in the morning around 5AM and 3 more pumps at 2:15PM. I then did the blood test at 3:30PM.
Other supplements im currently taking are inhibit E and 900mg of oral epiandro.
The day of the blood test I did 3 pumps in the morning around 5AM and 3 more pumps at 2:15PM. I then did the blood test at 3:30PM.
Other supplements im currently taking are inhibit E and 900mg of oral epiandro.
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delsolrob
Board Sponsor
Whoa! Yeah, despite how much I love the product, I'm also suspect.
anecdotally, how are you feeling?
WickedWarlock
Active Member
No the real question is what are you putting in that Alpha Four sir!?!? Lmao
Csvt1994
Active Member
Yeah the number is definitely not accurate.
I do feel the best 1 to 2 hrs after applying, and then the energy surge seems to fizzle out.
Do you know the half life?
I have no negative side effects.
For me applying an hr before my workout has been best.
Csvt1994
Active Member
Lol yeah unfortunately it’s not. I may try to get another test done by I different service before I run out of product
delsolrob
Board Sponsor
How are you feeling on the Alpha Four?
Csvt1994
Active Member
I feel great! But the peak of it is a short window maybe 3 hrs.
This is my last week of alpha four.
Then I’ll be starting sustain alpha.
Overall Alpha Four is a great product and something I would definitely use again.
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ricroc
Well-known member
What would be a good dosing protocol, initially, if pairing up A4 with Ultra 11? I'm planning on doing an 8-week run with A4 and came across this comment doing research for how to best use/pair.
Thanks
delsolrob
Board Sponsor
typically when I'm running Ultra Eleven and Alpha Four I do the following:
weeks 1-2
Alpha Four 3 pumps
Ultra Eleven 3 pumps
weeks 3-4
Alpha Four 3 pumps
Ultra Eleven 4 pumps
Weeks 4-8
Alpha Four 4 pumps
Ultra Eleven 5 pumps
I've done this a few times and always felt amazing and loved my run!
weeks 1-2
Alpha Four 3 pumps
Ultra Eleven 3 pumps
weeks 3-4
Alpha Four 3 pumps
Ultra Eleven 4 pumps
Weeks 4-8
Alpha Four 4 pumps
Ultra Eleven 5 pumps
I've done this a few times and always felt amazing and loved my run!
ricroc
Well-known member
Looks good, @delsolrob. Will give 'er a go. Many thanks!
Joshlm69
Well-known member
Wouldn’t we potentially see water retention when using Alpha Four which may visually skew the fat loss results we are trying to achieve with Ultra Eleven?
Have used both products (not stacked together), great products, I just definitely noticed my face/stomach retaining water when dosing Alpha Four at 5 pumps a day
delsolrob
Board Sponsor
very unlikely - 4-dhea is not that estrogenic
we also have two other players in this stack - Androsterone and 11-kt
the anti estrogenic effects of androsterone are really strong - part of the reason it's in Alpha Four
additionally, 11-kt also converts to 11-keto DHT - this should also act on estrogen receptors rendering them inactive - keeping the gains really dry.
DHT is a potent tool for keeping the effects of estrogen under control while not blocking the systemic benefits of estrogen we need
Joshlm69
Well-known member
Nice to know thanks
ricroc
Well-known member
Would the DHT caused by both or the 11-KT be enough to cause/contribute to hair loss or not really? Or in this case, depends on the individual? Or is the DHT from 11-KT different in mechanism?
I ask because I was originally looking at doing an Ultra Epi run and read that it can exacerbate hair loss if you're prone and/or starting to. I noticed last October my hair is thinning out and taking minoxidil to help stem the loss, and reading that about Epi caused me to find another product to run.
I ask because I was originally looking at doing an Ultra Epi run and read that it can exacerbate hair loss if you're prone and/or starting to. I noticed last October my hair is thinning out and taking minoxidil to help stem the loss, and reading that about Epi caused me to find another product to run.
delsolrob
Board Sponsor
yeah, the Ultra Eleven (11-kt) can cause some DHT related shedding - some of this can be dose dependent - if you're prone, I would just stick to a lower dose...like 3 pumps - that's still plenty of 11-kt to get benefit.
I wouldn't imagine the 100mg androsterone in Alpha Four would be much of a problem - we're not using a significant dose as we're working with the synergy of the 4-dhea.
I wouldn't imagine the 100mg androsterone in Alpha Four would be much of a problem - we're not using a significant dose as we're working with the synergy of the 4-dhea.
delsolrob
Board Sponsor
you may also want to look into our new batch of Ultra Three that should be available in a couple weeks - we're doing a presale now. 3AD has a lot of the benefits of Androsterone, but without the DHT conversion.
KvanH
Well-known member
I think Rob already gave great answers but since you asked me directly, I can give my 2 cents.
My dosing protocol would be determined based on wether I'm trying to cut weight or trying to minimize fat gain on a bulk or just to add some oomph to my bulk. And how the particular compounds make you feel or affect energy levels and such.
If cutting or trying to keep the gains as lean as possible, then I would have the U11 as the main driver (3 - 5 pumps) and use the A4 enough to keep feeling great on the run.
If bulking then I would dose more of the A4 and have the U11 as a nice addition.
Or if you don't mind applying larger quantites of transdermals and probably needing twice a day application, then you can dose both high and enjoy
I didn't experience any hair shedding on 5 pumps (200 mg) of U11 for 8 weeks, but I don't seem to be predisposed to male pattern baldness and I think it can happen to some users. 4-Andro has never made me puffy or stuff like that and I think most users don't usually experience those kind of issues, but as Joshlm mentioned it can happen.
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Joshlm69
Well-known member
Yeah I dont want to give off the impression to put people off, thats not the case. I gained a significant amount of size on Alpha Four when I bulked, I just noticed some water retention. I felt amazing on the run, strong, and my joints were super happy. I didn't notice any hair shedding from Alpha Four, only Ultra HardI think Rob already gave great answers but since you asked me directly, I can give my 2 cents.
My dosing protocol would be determined based on wether I'm trying to cut weight or trying to minimize fat gain on a bulk or just to add some oomph to my bulk. And how the particular compounds make you feel or affect energy levels and such.
If cutting or trying to keep the gains as lean as possible, then I would have the U11 as the main driver (3 - 5 pumps) and use the A4 enough to keep feeling great on the run.
If bulking then I would dose more of the A4 and have the U11 as a nice addition.
Or if you don't mind applying larger quantites of transdermals and probably needing twice a day application, then you can dose both high and enjoy
I didn't experience any har shedding on 5 pumps (200 mg) of U11 for 8 weeks, but I don't seem to be predisposed to male pattern baldness and I think it can happen to some users. 4-Andro has never made me puffy or stuff like that and I think most users don't usually experience those kind of issues, but as Joshlm mentioned it can happen.
ricroc
Well-known member
Appreciate the extra input fellas.
My goal is going to be more on the keeping the gains as lean as possible side. I'll start out with 3 pumps of each at first as Rob mentioned and can gauge which to increase/play around with. One of the nice benefits of TDs.
Prolly gonna start early April and run through the end of May.
My goal is going to be more on the keeping the gains as lean as possible side. I'll start out with 3 pumps of each at first as Rob mentioned and can gauge which to increase/play around with. One of the nice benefits of TDs.
Prolly gonna start early April and run through the end of May.
Haterank74
Active Member
Nice reply Down the road I def wanna try alpha 4 and icon 11 togetherI think Rob already gave great answers but since you asked me directly, I can give my 2 cents.
My dosing protocol would be determined based on wether I'm trying to cut weight or trying to minimize fat gain on a bulk or just to add some oomph to my bulk. And how the particular compounds make you feel or affect energy levels and such.
If cutting or trying to keep the gains as lean as possible, then I would have the U11 as the main driver (3 - 5 pumps) and use the A4 enough to keep feeling great on the run.
If bulking then I would dose more of the A4 and have the U11 as a nice addition.
Or if you don't mind applying larger quantites of transdermals and probably needing twice a day application, then you can dose both high and enjoy
I didn't experience any har shedding on 5 pumps (200 mg) of U11 for 8 weeks, but I don't seem to be predisposed to male pattern baldness and I think it can happen to some users. 4-Andro has never made me puffy or stuff like that and I think most users don't usually experience those kind of issues, but as Joshlm mentioned it can happen.
delsolrob
Board Sponsor
ricroc
Well-known member
This week was the start of my fourth week of running A4 along with U11. Going well so far.
First week I was using 3 pumps per as I was wanted to gauge how I'd deal with it, mainly to mitigate any potential hair loss. I know my hair is thinning out and didn't want to exacerbate the situation.
Everything went well and upped it to 4 pumps per for weeks two and three. Going 5 pumps from now until I'm out of both, which might lead me beyond my initial 8 week plan.
U11 is starting to do its job and felt a good libido jolt with the A4. Minimal calorie deficit and incorporating about an 8k/day walking routine in the morning, alongside a 5-day modified PPL split.
Will update in about another two weeks or so. Cheers!
First week I was using 3 pumps per as I was wanted to gauge how I'd deal with it, mainly to mitigate any potential hair loss. I know my hair is thinning out and didn't want to exacerbate the situation.
Everything went well and upped it to 4 pumps per for weeks two and three. Going 5 pumps from now until I'm out of both, which might lead me beyond my initial 8 week plan.
U11 is starting to do its job and felt a good libido jolt with the A4. Minimal calorie deficit and incorporating about an 8k/day walking routine in the morning, alongside a 5-day modified PPL split.
Will update in about another two weeks or so. Cheers!
xz010101
Member
That sucks. I see a lot of companies not going to be continuing production of 4 andro transdermal products.
