Advice on first cycle (42 y.o.)

[BlackJackDallas]

Need some advice on a first cycle, as well as some good resources for research. I'm a noob, I've dabbled with supplements in the past (fat burners, Test boosters, etc.), but am looking to get better results for the efforts I put in at the gym, maybe its age, but I'm pushing myself harder, sore longer, and seeing fewer and fewer results. Just got through a hard time in life where i ballooned up to 300, and over the past 7 months have been diligent and come down to ~250... but I have been stuck here for months, no new muscle, no additional fat loss... hence why I'm here..
I am looking to lean out, as well as maintain or even slightly increase my muscle mass. Details below, any advice, cycle templates, or direction would be greatly appreciated. Looking forward to learning from this group and getting up to speed.

Stats: 42 years old, 6' tall, 252 lbs. 19.5% BF, last blood test had my test at 304 (300-900 normal range), Kidney and Liver normal.
Diet: Fluctuate between a Body for Life type diet (3-4 meals of protein and veg (add carbs on lifting days) and 2 shakes) and Keto with IF (18-20 hour daily fast) every 8-10 weeks or so.
Supps: Currently only taking BCAA during workouts (cardio and lifting) as well as a Test booster in the mornings.
Training: 5 days a week of lifting (1-2 bodyparts, rep range 10-30, 16-22 sets, 60-90 seconds rest), 3 days a week of cardio (fasted state low intensity HR between 120-140) 30-45 min
Measurements:
- Neck - 17.5
- Shoulders - 59.5
- Chest - 51.5
- Arms 17
- Waist - 43 (@ Bellybutton)
- Glutes - 46.5
- Thighs - 27
- Calves - 19.5

Looking forward to your advice and direction.

 

[sloganslimms]

Need some advice on a first cycle, as well as some good resources for research. I'm a noob, I've dabbled with supplements in the past (fat burners, Test boosters, etc.), but am looking to get better results for the efforts I put in at the gym, maybe its age, but I'm pushing myself harder, sore longer, and seeing fewer and fewer results. Just got through a hard time in life where i ballooned up to 300, and over the past 7 months have been diligent and come down to ~250... but I have been stuck here for months, no new muscle, no additional fat loss... hence why I'm here..
I am looking to lean out, as well as maintain or even slightly increase my muscle mass. Details below, any advice, cycle templates, or direction would be greatly appreciated. Looking forward to learning from this group and getting up to speed.

Stats: 42 years old, 6' tall, 252 lbs. 19.5% BF, last blood test had my test at 304 (300-900 normal range), Kidney and Liver normal.
Diet: Fluctuate between a Body for Life type diet (3-4 meals of protein and veg (add carbs on lifting days) and 2 shakes) and Keto with IF (18-20 hour daily fast) every 8-10 weeks or so.
Supps: Currently only taking BCAA during workouts (cardio and lifting) as well as a Test booster in the mornings.
Training: 5 days a week of lifting (1-2 bodyparts, rep range 10-30, 16-22 sets, 60-90 seconds rest), 3 days a week of cardio (fasted state low intensity HR between 120-140) 30-45 min
Measurements:
- Neck - 17.5
- Shoulders - 59.5
- Chest - 51.5
- Arms 17
- Waist - 43 (@ Bellybutton)
- Glutes - 46.5
- Thighs - 27
- Calves - 19.5

Looking forward to your advice and direction.

Ok, so here's the thing. Your testosterone levels came back pretty low. I guess it's technically in range, but just by a hair. There are plenty of docs that would start you out on trt right now. If yours doesn't, then find one who will.
Also, you never mentioned how long you've been lifting for. Sounds like you've been dieting for a lil bit, but how long have you been using the aforementioned training routine? I know you said you've plateaued, but how long had you been exercising at that level before stalling? And how long have you been stuck?
I think you need hormone therapy before you decide on a cycle. Those testosterone levels would make it difficult for anyone to see gains. See how well you do once your back into upper healthy range.
But that's what responsible advice sounds like. Not that I've ever been remotely that responsible in my own life. I started cycling at 30 and screwed my hpta all up. My first cycle was 500 mg/wk test and 50 mg/day dbol, but I was much leaner than you starting out.
I'm a huge fan of testosterone only for a first cycle. And if you must take something else, some sort of mild oral like tbol. And especially not another aromatising steroid at your size. You must be jacked AF if you are 6' and weigh 250 at 19% bf! I'm thinking you're probably mistaken on your bf%. Not that it really matters but supposedly you aromatize more when you have more fat on your body.
Anyway, my point is it's better to see how you respond to testosterone first. Also, if you got on trt then you'd not have to worry about a pct and you could blast and cruise.
Just a thought... Good luck man

 

[BlackJackDallas]

Ok, so here's the thing. Your testosterone levels came back pretty low. I guess it's technically in range, but just by a hair. There are plenty of docs that would start you out on trt right now. If yours doesn't, then find one who will.
Also, you never mentioned how long you've been lifting for. Sounds like you've been dieting for a lil bit, but how long have you been using the aforementioned training routine? I know you said you've plateaued, but how long had you been exercising at that level before stalling? And how long have you been stuck?
I think you need hormone therapy before you decide on a cycle. Those testosterone levels would make it difficult for anyone to see gains. See how well you do once your back into upper healthy range.
But that's what responsible advice sounds like. Not that I've ever been remotely that responsible in my own life. I started cycling at 30 and screwed my hpta all up. My first cycle was 500 mg/wk test and 50 mg/day dbol, but I was much leaner than you starting out.
I'm a huge fan of testosterone only for a first cycle. And if you must take something else, some sort of mild oral like tbol. And especially not another aromatising steroid at your size. You must be jacked AF if you are 6' and weigh 250 at 19% bf! I'm thinking you're probably mistaken on your bf%. Not that it really matters but supposedly you aromatize more when you have more fat on your body.
Anyway, my point is it's better to see how you respond to testosterone first. Also, if you got on trt then you'd not have to worry about a pct and you could blast and cruise.
Just a thought... Good luck man

haha I'm not a small guy. Thanks for the advice. My levels have been around the 300-320 level for the last 7 years, I think my body uses T really efficiently (if that's possible). When there were "Pro hormones" on the market I took Andro (Thanks Mark McGuire), and also Mag-10 (Biotest) and saw some Amazing results. Those are actually the results I am trying to replicate, leaning out to around 215-225ish with a flat stomach (I'm not going to kid myself and think I'll get back to 195 and abs again, haven't seen them in 20 years, and also would hope that I have more muscle mass now, lol).

I've been lifting for 30ish years, former college football player, competed in Rowing and Crossfit for a few years but injuries got the best of me so returned to the gym about 3 years ago. My current progress Started in Nov 19' after a 4 month "Break", I dropped from 300 to 245 with intense cardio (45-60 min of stair mill level 8-10 every morning), occasional lifting (1-2 sessions upper/lower a week) and keto diet with fasting... but also felt and looked like I was loosing muscle. Stagnated at 245-250 in April, so I started switching up the diet to the 6 meal approach. Still no progress so in June switched back to Keto and added lifting and reduced cardio, still stagnated, at this point I've been trying the approach detailed in my original post (6 meals) Lifting 5 days, Cardio 3, for 5 weeks and have been fluctuating 1-2lbs a week (No real results).

Maybe TRT is the way to go, I will look into it, but also dont want to deal with the BS doctors if I dont have to. If not I'll consider a cycle of test, are there any resources you would recommend to research appropriate PCT?

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

im not going to write you a book or tell you what has been said was or is wrong. personally though, people throw around trt these days like its a must. it is ok to have lower test and it is possible to be just fine at that point. like you imagined your system seems to be ok with out that, and you are really just trying to see some benefits from your training.

I happen to be someone who can tell u TRT is like having an extra job. your always on call. you have to be diligent about all kinds of stuff and for what? so you can feel OK ? you already seem to be OK.

there are still pro hormones on the market. in fact if all you ever ran was androstenedione and biotest, you are going to be pleasantly surprised at some of the things available still today.

for cutting and such I really like a few different things as you get more advanced you can even take multiple things.

at the top of my list for you would be epi andro or dienolone.

APEX ALCHEMY sells both in a topical preperation that makes them super effective.

epi andro works like winstrol

dienolone works similar to trenbolone.

both of which are highly coveted cutting hormones.

if you would rather eat pills you should have a look at Vicious labs and Gainbusters for the super high quality and properly dosed offerings.

 

[unitas27]

im not going to write you a book or tell you what has been said was or is wrong. personally though, people throw around trt these days like its a must. it is ok to have lower test and it is possible to be just fine at that point. like you imagined your system seems to be ok with out that, and you are really just trying to see some benefits from your training.

I happen to be someone who can tell u TRT is like having an extra job. your always on call. you have to be diligent about all kinds of stuff and for what? so you can feel OK ? you already seem to be OK.

there are still pro hormones on the market. in fact if all you ever ran was androstenedione and biotest, you are going to be pleasantly surprised at some of the things available still today.

for cutting and such I really like a few different things as you get more advanced you can even take multiple things.

at the top of my list for you would be epi andro or dienolone.

APEX ALCHEMY sells both in a topical preperation that makes them super effective.

epi andro works like winstrol

dienolone works similar to trenbolone.

both of which are highly coveted cutting hormones.

if you would rather eat pills you should have a look at Vicious labs and Gainbusters for the super high quality and properly dosed offerings.

Agree with most of your points here. Dienolone is great for lean mass gains, but a libido killer for me. Everyone and their "test base" mantra has really permeating the boards the past couple of years. I understand TRT has it's place and for some it's a quality-of-life issue.
I had to come off TRT because of the extreme acne, and honestly, I felt better off it. Just running a topical andro and a moderate DMZ cycle was great and my libido was the same if not better than a TRT/PH run.

 

[sloganslimms]

haha I'm not a small guy. Thanks for the advice. My levels have been around the 300-320 level for the last 7 years, I think my body uses T really efficiently (if that's possible). When there were "Pro hormones" on the market I took Andro (Thanks Mark McGuire), and also Mag-10 (Biotest) and saw some Amazing results. Those are actually the results I am trying to replicate, leaning out to around 215-225ish with a flat stomach (I'm not going to kid myself and think I'll get back to 195 and abs again, haven't seen them in 20 years, and also would hope that I have more muscle mass now, lol).

I've been lifting for 30ish years, former college football player, competed in Rowing and Crossfit for a few years but injuries got the best of me so returned to the gym about 3 years ago. My current progress Started in Nov 19' after a 4 month "Break", I dropped from 300 to 245 with intense cardio (45-60 min of stair mill level 8-10 every morning), occasional lifting (1-2 sessions upper/lower a week) and keto diet with fasting... but also felt and looked like I was loosing muscle. Stagnated at 245-250 in April, so I started switching up the diet to the 6 meal approach. Still no progress so in June switched back to Keto and added lifting and reduced cardio, still stagnated, at this point I've been trying the approach detailed in my original post (6 meals) Lifting 5 days, Cardio 3, for 5 weeks and have been fluctuating 1-2lbs a week (No real results).

Maybe TRT is the way to go, I will look into it, but also dont want to deal with the BS doctors if I dont have to. If not I'll consider a cycle of test, are there any resources you would recommend to research appropriate PCT?

I am absolutely speaking anecdotally and cannot tell you what is right or wrong for you. I've just been sooo pleased with my personal experience with trt that I cannot help but be an advocate. I pay $7/month for scripts and see a doc maybe twice a year now that we're all dialed in.
I cannot speak to you on the efficacy of pro hormones. I've never intentionally taken them. Nor have I taken sarms or IGF-1 or HGH or many of today's offerings. I have successfully pct'd before all this, but the result was a loss in most of my gains. Possibly because my expectations were higher than they should have been, and I did not stay in a caloric surplus post cycle as well as I should have.
With that being said, I've used HCG while on cycle to keep the nads working but I've read that this wasn't necessarily the most efficient way of using it. Many suggest blasting HCG while the test is clearing right before starting a pct of clomid and nolva. I think Dr. Scally's pct protocol is something to this effect. Perhaps someone with more knowledge on pct should chime in.

 

[BlackJackDallas]

im not going to write you a book or tell you what has been said was or is wrong. personally though, people throw around trt these days like its a must. it is ok to have lower test and it is possible to be just fine at that point. like you imagined your system seems to be ok with out that, and you are really just trying to see some benefits from your training.

I happen to be someone who can tell u TRT is like having an extra job. your always on call. you have to be diligent about all kinds of stuff and for what? so you can feel OK ? you already seem to be OK.

there are still pro hormones on the market. in fact if all you ever ran was androstenedione and biotest, you are going to be pleasantly surprised at some of the things available still today.

for cutting and such I really like a few different things as you get more advanced you can even take multiple things.

at the top of my list for you would be epi andro or dienolone.

APEX ALCHEMY sells both in a topical preperation that makes them super effective.

epi andro works like winstrol

dienolone works similar to trenbolone.

both of which are highly coveted cutting hormones.

if you would rather eat pills you should have a look at Vicious labs and Gainbusters for the super high quality and properly dosed offerings.

Thanks for the advice. Wasn't even aware that there were still pro-hormones on the market, thought they all got banned... Any thoughts on the ones you mentioned and liver toxicity, and also if PCT is needed? As I've been researching, it seems that the Tren/Win/Test Prop cycle would achieve my goal. Your post has me thinking that I should run the PH you mentioned first, then if not seeing results I want upgrade.

 

[sloganslimms]

Thanks for the advice. Wasn't even aware that there were still pro-hormones on the market, thought they all got banned... Any thoughts on the ones you mentioned and liver toxicity, and also if PCT is needed? As I've been researching, it seems that the Tren/Win/Test Prop cycle would achieve my goal. Your post has me thinking that I should run the PH you mentioned first, then if not seeing results I want upgrade.

Test prop is a whole lot of needles my friend. I'm not saying that it doesn't work, I am saying that you will stay sore with virgin muscle with all that pinning on a first cycle. Tren is also an advanced steroid with lots of scary sides that should be saved for a later cycle. You're doing the right thing though. Get as much information as you can before making a decision.

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

Thanks for the advice. Wasn't even aware that there were still pro-hormones on the market, thought they all got banned... Any thoughts on the ones you mentioned and liver toxicity, and also if PCT is needed? As I've been researching, it seems that the Tren/Win/Test Prop cycle would achieve my goal. Your post has me thinking that I should run the PH you mentioned first, then if not seeing results I want upgrade.

neither one is liver toxic as a methylated designer. the epiandro is a DHEA molecule that is very mild yet very profound.
Dieneolone at higher doses can have side effects and one should plan for them.
topicals are applied to the skin so it avoids the first pass through the liver.. should be very little liver enzyme elevation if any.
If you just ran epi andro you might be ok just tapering off and running some over the counter stuff, but with dienolone and or the combo, i would certainly recommend a proper PCT.
as far as a place to research: www.***************************** is a board sponsor and is a great place to start for your research needs.
also there are 2 dienolone logs going to start up this week or next from a APEX promo that ended last weekend.

 

[Renew1]

im not going to write you a book or tell you what has been said was or is wrong. personally though, people throw around trt these days like its a must. it is ok to have lower test and it is possible to be just fine at that point. like you imagined your system seems to be ok with out that, and you are really just trying to see some benefits from your training.

I happen to be someone who can tell u TRT is like having an extra job. your always on call. you have to be diligent about all kinds of stuff and for what? so you can feel OK ? you already seem to be OK.

there are still pro hormones on the market. in fact if all you ever ran was androstenedione and biotest, you are going to be pleasantly surprised at some of the things available still today.

for cutting and such I really like a few different things as you get more advanced you can even take multiple things.

at the top of my list for you would be epi andro or dienolone.

APEX ALCHEMY sells both in a topical preperation that makes them super effective.

epi andro works like winstrol

dienolone works similar to trenbolone.

both of which are highly coveted cutting hormones.

if you would rather eat pills you should have a look at Vicious labs and Gainbusters for the super high quality and properly dosed offerings.

^^^ Really Great Advice ^^^

 

[BennyMagoo79]

Just try running test at low dose first and work out how to balance your E before adding anything else. 250mg test e per week is more effective at assisting recomp than any DHEA derivatives I've tried, and definitely improves energy, focus and libido. The trick is to work out what exem dose is right for balancing e: too much exem and joints seize up; too little and titbits start to get sensitive and fluid retention goes up.