Advice on combining pro hormones with test

puffynips

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Hi I am currently 1 week into a 6 week trenevar/Epistane cycle. I'm dosing at 60 tren 30 EPI for 2 weeks then moving up to 80 Tren 40 EPI for the last 4 weeks. I've used epistane in the past at that dose with good results. As always I have an AI on hand and Nolva/Clom for PCT. My question is that I keep hearing people say you should never run an oral only cycle plus by adding test I can extend the cycle to 12 weeks giving me greater chance of keeping gains. Am I likely to get much better results by running around 350 mg test per week alongside the PH and would it matter that I've already been taking the PH's a week. Any advice would be real appreciated.
 
carsonkeelor

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You NEED to run a test base with any prohormone cycle man. At 350mg per day you won’t gain much from the testosterone itself, but you’ll be able to maintain your gains at a much higher percentage once the whole cycle is said and done. Plus you won’t feel like **** if you take the test. Neither of those prohormones aromatize and will very certainly shut you down, which will lead to having no estrogen in your body (aka feeling like ****). That’s why you need a test base man. 200mg of test is all you need to feel good and keep everything in order. 500mg is good if you want gains from it.
 

puffynips

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Hey man thanks for the response. I was toying between the 350-500mg area but as I've never ran test before I might start lower and work up to see how it 'agrees' with me. I know exactly what you mean about feeling terrible due to shutdown, I had it real bad when I once took Superdrol -although I never realised it was due to that. Theres very little accurate info about PH's compared to injectables. The more I discover the more wary I feel about them. At the supplement shop they advised that a sarm can be used on cycle in place of test...mind you they also said I should use Nolva on cycle which I've never heard of
 
carsonkeelor

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How you feel on 350 vs. 500 won’t be very drastic but the gains will be. I’d stick with 500 for the gains man.
 

puffynips

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Ok sounds good I'll go with the 500 then. Would you advice using HCG for the last 4 weeks prior to pct? Normally more organised than this but adding the test has been a last minute decision and I just want to make sure I've got it all covered
 
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Hey man thanks for the response. I was toying between the 350-500mg area but as I've never ran test before I might start lower and work up to see how it 'agrees' with me. I know exactly what you mean about feeling terrible due to shutdown, I had it real bad when I once took Superdrol -although I never realised it was due to that. Theres very little accurate info about PH's compared to injectables. The more I discover the more wary I feel about them. At the supplement shop they advised that a sarm can be used on cycle in place of test...mind you they also said I should use Nolva on cycle which I've never heard of
A SARM isn't a replacement for Test. (You really have to be wary of advice from Sup shops.)

Just to be clear......extending the cycle with Test, only applies to the Test, not the PHs (oral steroids).
 
carsonkeelor

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Ok sounds good I'll go with the 500 then. Would you advice using HCG for the last 4 weeks prior to pct? Normally more organised than this but adding the test has been a last minute decision and I just want to make sure I've got it all covered
I will PM you a link that describes this perfectly.
 

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So true about sups shops, the first PH I ever bought was Superdrol and was told no sort of PCT was ever necessary for any PH. Yea gonna be running the orals for 6 weeks max -depends how the Trenevar affects me.
 

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Appreciate that mate, I'll check it out now.
 
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So true about sups shops, the first PH I ever bought was Superdrol and was told no sort of PCT was ever necessary for any PH. Yea gonna be running the orals for 6 weeks max -depends how the Trenevar affects me.
Yeah...most "PHs" are just steroids.

Make sure you're using cycle support, and definitely TUDCA. Keep safe brother.
 

puffynips

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I will PM you a link that describes this perfectly.
Cheers for that it appears to be a better/more reliable source than the sketchy looking guy on Youtube so I'll go with it. Having read it, it would seem that as I'm keeping the cycle relatively short -12 weeks adding HCG may well cause more damage than good. Last thing I wanna do is start adding unnecessary drugs into the mix.
 
carsonkeelor

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Cheers for that it appears to be a better/more reliable source than the sketchy looking guy on Youtube so I'll go with it. Having read it, it would seem that as I'm keeping the cycle relatively short -12 weeks adding HCG may well cause more damage than good. Last thing I wanna do is start adding unnecessary drugs into the mix.
Good call mate, and good luck with your cycle. Let us know the results if you can.
 

puffynips

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Good call mate, and good luck with your cycle. Let us know the results if you can.
Thank you! and again cheers for your advice. Wasnt sure if I might get slated for not having this all sorted well in advance. So yea gonna give the test a go. So does this all look ok? Test 2x weekly at 250mg, aramasin 12.5 every other day, run for 12 weeks. wait 2 weeks after last test shot before commencing PCT. I'll only be running the PH's for the first 6 weeks. ...and you put the needle in your eye right? :wink1:
 
carsonkeelor

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Thank you! and again cheers for your advice. Wasnt sure if I might get slated for not having this all sorted well in advance. So yea gonna give the test a go. So does this all look ok? Test 2x weekly at 250mg, aramasin 12.5 every other day, run for 12 weeks. wait 2 weeks after last test shot before commencing PCT. I'll only be running the PH's for the first 6 weeks. ...and you put the needle in your eye right? :wink1:
Looks solid to me.

Remember to alternate eyes every injection to avoid any scarring ;)
 
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Thank you! and again cheers for your advice. Wasnt sure if I might get slated for not having this all sorted well in advance. So yea gonna give the test a go. So does this all look ok? Test 2x weekly at 250mg, aramasin 12.5 every other day, run for 12 weeks. wait 2 weeks after last test shot before commencing PCT. I'll only be running the PH's for the first 6 weeks. ...and you put the needle in your eye right? :wink1:
It depends upon which Test ester you are running. Different esters equal different clear times. (To determine PCT start time).
 
brofessorx

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Hi I am currently 1 week into a 6 week trenevar/Epistane cycle. I'm dosing at 60 tren 30 EPI for 2 weeks then moving up to 80 Tren 40 EPI for the last 4 weeks. I've used epistane in the past at that dose with good results. As always I have an AI on hand and Nolva/Clom for PCT. My question is that I keep hearing people say you should never run an oral only cycle plus by adding test I can extend the cycle to 12 weeks giving me greater chance of keeping gains. Am I likely to get much better results by running around 350 mg test per week alongside the PH and would it matter that I've already been taking the PH's a week. Any advice would be real appreciated.
At 6 weeks you’re better off going into pct and in the meantime begin planning your next cycle of 500mg test e for 10 weeks plus w/e oral you want for 6-8 weeks.

Rights now you’re pretty much done gaining and continuing on past 8 weeks of orals is just delaying pct and increasing risk of sides and effecting your health.
 
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At 6 weeks you’re better off going into pct and in the meantime begin planning your next cycle of 500mg test e for 10 weeks plus w/e oral you want for 6-8 weeks.

Rights now you’re pretty much done gaining and continuing on past 8 weeks of orals is just delaying pct and increasing risk of sides and effecting your health.
He's on week one.
 
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puffynips

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It depends upon which Test ester you are running. Different esters equal different clear times. (To determine PCT start time).
I had no idea there were 9 different types. I'm pretty sure its Enanthate which I see has a half life of 10.5 days. I'm picking it up tomorrow and although the product is from a reliable source the advice that comes with it often isn't. I'm starting to wander whether I should be adding in the test to this cycle at such short notice when theres clearly more to learn. I just hate the process of putting on 15 lb only to lose 10, plus it I keep reading that its worse for your body not to run it. If I do go ahead and its Enanthate would 2 weeks be a long enough break after last boost before commencing PCT?
 
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I had no idea there were 9 different types. I'm pretty sure its Enanthate which I see has a half life of 10.5 days. I'm picking it up tomorrow and although the product is from a reliable source the advice that comes with it often isn't. I'm starting to wander whether I should be adding in the test to this cycle at such short notice when theres clearly more to learn. I just hate the process of putting on 15 lb only to lose 10, plus it I keep reading that its worse for your body not to run it. If I do go ahead and its Enanthate would 2 weeks be a long enough break after last boost before commencing PCT?
Yeah, two weeks is good. But before you start it, make sure you know exactly what it is.
 
brofessorx

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Putting on 15lbs and only loosing 5 is pretty good imo.

If guys put on 15 kept even say 13 of it all the time, we’d all be hyyyyuuuuugggeee!
 
TheBigJS

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You'll get more from 6 months of 350mg PW test e than you'll ever see from any number of PH garbage "cycles"..and your liver will still work.

If you're happy to pin, happy to source injectable AAS then don't f about with retail sups.
 

puffynips

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Putting on 15lbs and only loosing 5 is pretty good imo.

If guys put on 15 kept even say 13 of it all the time, we’d all be hyyyyuuuuugggeee!
I was putting on 15 and then losing 10 so I'd balloon out -everyone could tell I was taking steroids and then I'd look like a muppet when it disappeared just as quick. :17:
 

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You'll get more from 6 months of 350mg PW test e than you'll ever see from any number of PH garbage "cycles"..and your liver will still work.

If you're happy to pin, happy to source injectable AAS then don't f about with retail sups.

Yea I won't be doing them again. Now I've started pinning the test it seems pointless to mess about with them. Couldn't believe how painless the whole thing was.
 

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So another quick question if any of you guys can help; I'm going to run out of my EPI/Trenevar stack (comes in same pill) 3 weeks into the cycle. I have a few SD Matrix caps left from a previous cycle. Can I use them at the end of the PH cycle to make up the difference or do I need to buy another whole bottle of EPI/Tren to see me through the 5 weeks. I'm guessing the SD has to build up over time to be effective. Just sick of buying an extra bottle and using a third of it
 

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So thought I'd update: Been on the test e 500 p/w. Within 4 days of the first pin the lethargy seemed to go. I mean I was really starting to feel like crap with no motivation before that. Im assuming it must've been the Trenevar in the PH that shut me down within 2 weeks and not the EPI. Only had 3 weeks worth in the bottle and wasnt gonna shell out another 40 for another, but after 3 weeks on the PH and Test I've gained 10lb with no fat gains. I have 16 10mg caps of SD Matrix -prob MT1 and Superdrol but nobody actually knows wtf's in it. I'm feeling no sides from the Tren/EPI so I'm gonna take 1 cap a day for the next 16 days. That will only add up to 5 1/2 weeks on PH's and I know SD Matrix kicks in within 3-4 days. Will update
 
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So thought I'd update: Been on the test e 500 p/w. Within 4 days of the first pin the lethargy seemed to go. I mean I was really starting to feel like crap with no motivation before that. Im assuming it must've been the Trenevar in the PH that shut me down within 2 weeks and not the EPI. Only had 3 weeks worth in the bottle and wasnt gonna shell out another 40 for another, but after 3 weeks on the PH and Test I've gained 10lb with no fat gains. I have 16 10mg caps of SD Matrix -prob MT1 and Superdrol but nobody actually knows wtf's in it. I'm feeling no sides from the Tren/EPI so I'm gonna take 1 cap a day for the next 16 days. That will only add up to 5 1/2 weeks on PH's and I know SD Matrix kicks in within 3-4 days. Will update
Yeah, nobody knows what the "SD Matrix" is, because nobody's sent it to a lab, and reported the results. The nomenclature on the label is made up, and makes no sense (doesn't equate to a real substance). I hate it when companies pull that crap.
 
TheBigJS

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Yea I won't be doing them again. Now I've started pinning the test it seems pointless to mess about with them. Couldn't believe how painless the whole thing was.
Absolutely, retail PH are a joke, damn expensive, pretty ineffective, still shutdown, still need pct, at least as bad potential for side effects.
 
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Absolutely, retail PH are a joke, damn expensive, pretty ineffective, still shutdown, still need pct, at least as bad potential for side effects.
What "PHs" are you referring to? Certainly not SD, or DMZ. Definitely not ineffective.
 
TheBigJS

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What "PHs" are you referring to? Certainly not SD, or DMZ. Definitely not ineffective.
Show me one person who says they built a genuinely not achievable natty physique on just current legal PHs and I'll show you a liar.

Even the old (banned) ones that did work were just oral steroids, they shut you down just like Test, Mast, EQ, Tren etc. so without a Test base you're asking for problems. They all required real PCT (unless you're cruising Test year round which defeats the idea ) and unless you're insane real AIs at least available just in case which means going black market anyway, plus they're so liver toxic you can't run them for long enough.
And they've always been too expensive. And never gave half the results of just a mid dose (600mg PW?) Test blast.

Apart from that, they were ok. I guess;)
 

puffynips

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Show me one person who says they built a genuinely not achievable natty physique on just current legal PHs and I'll show you a liar.

Even the old (banned) ones that did work were just oral steroids, they shut you down just like Test, Mast, EQ, Tren etc. so without a Test base you're asking for problems. They all required real PCT (unless you're cruising Test year round which defeats the idea ) and unless you're insane real AIs at least available just in case which means going black market anyway, plus they're so liver toxic you can't run them for long enough.
And they've always been too expensive. And never gave half the results of just a mid dose (600mg PW?) Test blast.

Apart from that, they were ok. I guess;)
Cant comment on the 'Newer' PH's but in the UK you can still legally buy DMZ, Trenevar and although Superdrol and M1T are officially banned its constantly rebranded and on sale. I can promise you that -for me anyway- it allowed me to gain stupid amounts of muscle within 4 weeks. However I couldn't agree more about their toxicity. I've had cold sores, nail fungus and horrible stomach cramps and I quickly realised that the more you gain in a short period e.g. 4 weeks the harder it is to keep.
This cycle will be the last one I ever use PH's. Basically I put my body through hell because I didn't want to inject.
 

puffynips

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Yeah, nobody knows what the "SD Matrix" is, because nobody's sent it to a lab, and reported the results. The nomenclature on the label is made up, and makes no sense (doesn't equate to a real substance). I hate it when companies pull that crap.
Absolutely but one thing that I will always be thankful to that particular company for was their 'esto-suppress' -which was taken off the market once it was discovered to be Tamoxifen...or so legend has it. It did seem to reverse the rebound gyno that their PH gave me when I couldn't source the real tamox. Wow that was scary. Was first ever cycle and supplement shop told me the SD was 'herbal'...
 
TheBigJS

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Cant comment on the 'Newer' PH's but in the UK you can still legally buy DMZ, Trenevar and although Superdrol and M1T are officially banned its constantly rebranded and on sale. I can promise you that -for me anyway- it allowed me to gain stupid amounts of muscle within 4 weeks. However I couldn't agree more about their toxicity. I've had cold sores, nail fungus and horrible stomach cramps and I quickly realised that the more you gain in a short period e.g. 4 weeks the harder it is to keep.
This cycle will be the last one I ever use PH's. Basically I put my body through hell because I didn't want to inject.
If you're in the UK WTF are you doing taking liver toxic retail junk? Possession of injectable AAS for personal use is not a crime here!
Yes it's a slight gamble buying UGL stuff, moreso off the net. But looking at the sup industries track record it's probably no worse than buying PHs and definately better odds of getting what you ordered than SARMs.
 
brofessorx

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Show me one person who says they built a genuinely not achievable natty physique on just current legal PHs and I'll show you a liar.

Even the old (banned) ones that did work were just oral steroids, they shut you down just like Test, Mast, EQ, Tren etc. so without a Test base you're asking for problems. They all required real PCT (unless you're cruising Test year round which defeats the idea ) and unless you're insane real AIs at least available just in case which means going black market anyway, plus they're so liver toxic you can't run them for long enough.
And they've always been too expensive. And never gave half the results of just a mid dose (600mg PW?) Test blast.

Apart from that, they were ok. I guess;)
If you're in the UK WTF are you doing taking liver toxic retail junk? Possession of injectable AAS for personal use is not a crime here!
Yes it's a slight gamble buying UGL stuff, moreso off the net. But looking at the sup industries track record it's probably no worse than buying PHs and definately better odds of getting what you ordered than SARMs.
:gay:
 
TheBigJS

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What? Living in a country where AAS aren't illegal or injecting Test/Tren etc instead of swallowing crap that does little more than screw your liver, shut you down and cause water retention?
 
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