Advice for my third cycle...?

[Mneksonakshd]

Hey guys, just wanted some quick advice if possible. This year will be my third bulk cycle and I’m hoping some one out there has any advice for building a solid bulk then a cut stack?? Preferably something with minimal testicular atrophy..

Much appreciated !!

 

[Nac]

Calorie deficit---->surplus/rebound is arguably "better" than the other way around. Generally speaking.

 

[CroLifter]

Do NOT run hcg during pct. It is suppressive just like testosterone.

Use it throughout the cycle and stop right before pct.

 

[CroLifter]

The study is on hgh, not hcg ...

hcg is suppressive to the hpta, that is why you dont want to use it in pct when using serms.

having testicles atrophy will lengthen recovery...you will unnecessarily spend time with no test in your system while waiting for your own lh to simulate the testicles

When you could have used hcg on cycle and prevented the atrophy and not spend the time with 0 test when using serms because when pituitary starts producing adequate lh (which is pretty fast) your testicoes, since they are up to the full size, will be receptive and will produce your normal amount of natural test.

I cant get any clearer than that.

 

[CroLifter]

Hmm..... interesting.... so say you blast and cruise. When should u take HCG?

Totally unnecessary if you dont care about fertility or if you dont plan to come off at some point in the future.

 

[gphagan1]

The study is on hgh, not hcg ...

hcg is suppressive to the hpta, that is why you dont want to use it in pct when using serms.

having testicles atrophy will lengthen recovery...you will unnecessarily spend time with no test in your system while waiting for your own lh to simulate the testicles

When you could have used hcg on cycle and prevented the atrophy and not spend the time with 0 test when using serms because when pituitary starts producing adequate lh (which is pretty fast) your testicoes, since they are up to the full size, will be receptive and will produce your normal amount of natural test.

I cant get any clearer than that.

This is why many TRT/HRT Doctors include HCG as part of their therapy protocol.

 

[bigbeaph]

I believe...just another way of saying this is - hcg mimics lh. So while it increases testosterone it will suppress your body's ability to naturally produce it. The lh and fsh signal will not be coming from your brain - it will be mimicked by the hcg inject. This is why its helpful to run throughout the cycle but needs abandoned once the esthers clear. It keeps the test production going so your body simply needs to pick back up sending that signal and you'll be back at, or near 100% production in the blink of an eye.

I dont mean to be redundant- just a little different way of understanding the function.

 

[AnabolicGuru]

I believe...just another way of saying this is - hcg mimics lh. So while it increases testosterone it will suppress your body's ability to naturally produce it. The lh and fsh signal will not be coming from your brain - it will be mimicked by the hcg inject. This is why its helpful to run throughout the cycle but needs abandoned once the esthers clear. It keeps the test production going so your body simply needs to pick back up sending that signal and you'll be back at, or near 100% production in the blink of an eye.

I dont mean to be redundant- just a little different way of understanding the function.

Yea exactly; hcg is an analogue to lh, so your hypothalamus wont send GnRh to the pituitary since it would recognize the hcg and think that the pituitary doesn’t need to produce any. I’ve never understood why people would run it during pct; I’d only use it during cycle and leading up to pct. Also would use it if I blast and cruise or am on trt.

 

[bigbeaph]

Yea exactly; hcg is an analogue to lh, so your hypothalamus wont send GnRh to the pituitary since it would recognize the hcg and think that the pituitary doesn’t need to produce any. I’ve never understood why people would run it during pct; I’d only use it during cycle and leading up to pct. Also would use it if I blast and cruise or am on trt.

So does hcg effect the fsh signal at all? I gather from what you've said lh is the only one with an issue. I've always thought it somehow turned off both but never understood how

 

[AnabolicGuru]

So does hcg effect the fsh signal at all? I gather from what you've said lh is the only one with an issue. I've always thought it somehow turned off both but never understood how

I can’t say for sure, but it wouldn’t surprise me if it also prevented the pituitary from secreting fsh, because the hypothalamus sends out GnRh to the pituitary to create both lh and fsh. This is just my guess though, I could be wrong.

 

[CroLifter]

All i can say is that hcg simply works. I felt like dogsh1t on clomid pct, low test and wasnt recovering at all. Anxiety, panic attacks, heart palpitations...

coukdnt take it anymore and took a shot of hcg. Within HOURS i felt the relief of psychological symptoms and a got the feeling of well-being.

My hpta is obviously broken and testicles are fine as i feel normal on hcg only but as soon as i go off hcg and go on serms i start to feel like sh1t. So secondary hypogonadism (steroid induced).

Hcg works fast in stimulating the testicles but it also stimulates the lh receptors giving you higher libido and feeling of well-being.

 

[BillD]

All i can say is that hcg simply works. I felt like dogsh1t on clomid pct, low test and wasnt recovering at all. Anxiety, panic attacks, heart palpitations...

coukdnt take it anymore and took a shot of hcg. Within HOURS i felt the relief of psychological symptoms and a got the feeling of well-being.

My hpta is obviously broken and testicles are fine as i feel normal on hcg only but as soon as i go off hcg and go on serms i start to feel like sh1t. So secondary hypogonadism (steroid induced).

Hcg works fast in stimulating the testicles but it also stimulates the lh receptors giving you higher libido and feeling of well-being.

The anxiety is real with Clomid...I just had to stop because it was keeping me from sleeping, waking up and anxiety through the roof. Why the hell does it do that? I was only running 25mg after a underwhelming S4 run

 

[CroLifter]

The anxiety is real with Clomid...I just had to stop because it was keeping me from sleeping, waking up and anxiety through the roof. Why the hell does it do that? I was only running 25mg after a underwhelming S4 run

I was also running 25mg.

because part of the clomid is estrogenic and high estrogen/low testosterone (obviously after cycle) in a male body= disaster

i was having wild panic attacks in the gym, in the public, while eating...could not finish my workouts because i felt i was dying... then one morning i just woke up and tears started coming out of nowhere for no reason.

At that point i was pissed as hell and i said enough is enough and that i dont have to keep doing this to myself and proceeded to inject hcg.

 

[BillD]

I was also running 25mg.

because part of the clomid is estrogenic and high estrogen/low testosterone (obviously after cycle) in a male body= disaster

i was having wild panic attacks in the gym, in the public, while eating...could not finish my workouts because i felt i was dying... then one morning i just woke up and tears started coming out of nowhere for no reason.

At that point i was pissed as hell and i said enough is enough and that i dont have to keep doing this to myself and proceeded to inject hcg.

It’s weird because I’ve ran it in the past with no issues. What could be causing it this time around?

 

[CroLifter]

It’s weird because I’ve ran it in the past with no issues. What could be causing it this time around?

Lower testosterone due to the suppression from s4. It is the T:estrogen ratio that is important, not absolute numbers.

you probably had very little dht in your system to counter estrogen.

You are basically putting a synthetic estrogen into your body.

but thay is EXACTLY why hcg is so important. Pituitary kicks in extremely fast as it senses low androgen and estrogen levels. It is the testicular size that then limits and lengthens recovery, making you feel miserable with low test.

prevent the atrophy from happening in the first place and then you shouldnt have issues most of the time because hpta damage is rare damage occurs at the testicles (atrophy).

 

[bigbeaph]

All i can say is that hcg simply works. I felt like dogsh1t on clomid pct, low test and wasnt recovering at all. Anxiety, panic attacks, heart palpitations...

coukdnt take it anymore and took a shot of hcg. Within HOURS i felt the relief of psychological symptoms and a got the feeling of well-being.

My hpta is obviously broken and testicles are fine as i feel normal on hcg only but as soon as i go off hcg and go on serms i start to feel like sh1t. So secondary hypogonadism (steroid induced).

Hcg works fast in stimulating the testicles but it also stimulates the lh receptors giving you higher libido and feeling of well-being.

Completely agree. I was running a high test cycle an all of a sudden lost my sex drive. Went from 100 to 0 - but I had my estro in check. I added hcg 3X per week and it shot through the roof. So when I started trt I just decided to run it all the time. Its relatively cheap and easy to pin. I dont plan on ever dropping it.

A lot of guys say they think it drives their estrogen high. I swear it levels out my hormones to a good balance though. Doesnt cause me to increase a.i. at all and as you said - seems to increase my mood. I've been preaching this stuff for the last year - especially when the alternatives are drugs like clomid. A large majority seem to have issues with that crap.

 

[BillD]

Lower testosterone due to the suppression from s4. It is the T:estrogen ratio that is important, not absolute numbers.

you probably had very little dht in your system to counter estrogen.

You are basically putting a synthetic estrogen into your body.

but thay is EXACTLY why hcg is so important. Pituitary kicks in extremely fast as it senses low androgen and estrogen levels. It is the testicular size that then limits and lengthens recovery, making you feel miserable with low test.

prevent the atrophy from happening in the first place and then you shouldnt have issues most of the time because hpta damage is rare damage occurs at the testicles (atrophy).

I thought s4 was considered one of the least suppressive...I wasn’t getting any vision sides at 100mg a day so I can only imagine what I was actually taking to crush my test levels.

 

[CroLifter]

Completely agree. I was running a high test cycle an all of a sudden lost my sex drive. Went from 100 to 0 - but I had my estro in check. I added hcg 3X per week and it shot through the roof. So when I started trt I just decided to run it all the time. Its relatively cheap and easy to pin. I dont plan on ever dropping it.

A lot of guys say they think it drives their estrogen high. I swear it levels out my hormones to a good balance though. Doesnt cause me to increase a.i. at all and as you said - seems to increase my mood. I've been preaching this stuff for the last year - especially when the alternatives are drugs like clomid. A large majority seem to have issues with that crap.

Btw loss of libido on test with estro in check in my case was due to prolactin. Sh1t was 50% above top of the range.

That being said, currently running mk677 which completely killed my libido. Took caber and it solved my sore nipple but increase in lbiido was meh...nothing special.

But as of beginning of last week i am on hcg only, no test whatsoever, and this week i increased hcg since it is the last week of hcg before coming off.
Libido is freaking high, despite me using mk677. So it must be the stimulation of lh receptors.

Test never really raised my libido unless i used caber alongside. Masteron neither (since i got masteron from a sketchy source some have suggested that it was tren and that would explain low libido and high prolactin but that is whole another topic).

2 things that have substantially raised my libido are hcg and 6 bromo.