Unanswered Advice for guy in his mid 20s who will one day use steriods.

[HealthForEternity]

I am currently 25. Played Soccer and Football but chose D1 soccer over D2 football. I even played for a professional reserve team for 1 year! I have been into fitness since middle school. Im 5'8 and currently weight 165-180 depending on how much soccer im playing. Im naturally very wirey strong Mass doesn't come easy but I can get pretty strong when eating a ton of carb. I was like 145 when getting recruited out of HS in flordia (another reason I picked soccer) so that can give you an Idea of my natural build. 180lbs may be my comfortable natural limit.

From my general research on the topic of steroid use I have concluded that I want to be on HRT at 35+. I have always wanted to experience being on the juice. I have buddies who love the effects and don't seem to have any health issues from using them.

What age would yall recommend starting my first cycle?
Should I even cycle before 35 and HRT?
Should I hit a certain weight before Juice? I don't track macros but I am very mindful of my eating.
Is working out enjoyable off cycle after experiencing the amazing benefits on? What I see my steroid using gym partners struggle with most.

If I decide to run a cycle it would be Test E. With and Ai on hand. Possibly an oral kickstart (Dbol). HCG.
Torem and Nolva PCT. I would meet with a steroid friendly endo for before during and after bloods.

 

[BloodManor]

Never Srs
Why do you want to be on hrt and stick yourself with a needle for the rest of your life? Plus running cycles is a mind fuk- your on and bigger and stronger than ever. Few months later you lose half of it and feel like you need to go back on. Unless you want to do it as a profession than juice away - it’s the only way to compete with everyone out there.

 

[HealthForEternity]

Never Srs
Why do you want to be on hrt and stick yourself with a needle for the rest of your life? Plus running cycles is a mind fuk- your on and bigger and stronger than ever. Few months later you lose half of it and feel like you need to go back on. Unless you want to do it as a profession than juice away - it’s the only way to compete with everyone out there.

I want to be on exogenous test when I'm older because the quality of life benefits of doctor monitored hormone replacement for older men. Steroid use (not abuse) can be beneficial for aging men. I am currently studying to be a physicians assistant and that's my current view on the topic. That being said knowing that will be my ultimate fate im interested in the notable effect of supraphysiological doses and the feeling of being "On".

Yeah I don't want to compete. If I cycle it would be a couple times a year or less.

 

[jrock645]

Only advice I can offer is to make sure you have your goals clearly defined as far as what you're trying to achieve. And make sure you know what you need to do diet and training wise to do it. Obviously, juice will only help, won't do it for you. And the biggest thing is to be sure you really want to enter the proverbial rabbit hole before you go in. Once you're in, it's deeper and either more fascinating or more terrifying than you ever realized. Just make sure you can handle that. If you're interested in working in medicine, I don't think you need a lecture on the being safe part, but that's obviously concern #1. Any of the "you should weight this much or lift this much before juicing" is purely arbitrary, judgmental bs. You can set those targets for yourself but I don't think its reasonable for anybody else to.

 

[Mathb33]

Yep, This was real poetry. Wouldnt say it any other way.

 

[Hyde]

Training on steroids is more fun, and it’s not as fun off. I still really enjoy training year round, but you have to accept times of fighting to maintain to balance out the periods of accelerated progression. You will have highs and lows, side effects, and most importantly: there will be a longterm cost to your health.

Having a higher BMI, even lean, is proven to be the prime driver of earlier mortality. High blood pressure and bad lipids, even temporarily, are wearing out kidneys and promoting LVH & atherosclerosis. Intelligent use and supplementing with the right supports can limit these things, but don’t kid yourself into believing there’s ever a fully free lunch. It’s not the same as true TRT with optimized hormone levels - anything out of range, high or low, impacts longevity.

The juice has got to be worth the squeeze to you.

 

[HealthForEternity]

Only advice I can offer is to make sure you have your goals clearly defined as far as what you're trying to achieve. And make sure you know what you need to do diet and training wise to do it. Obviously, juice will only help, won't do it for you. And the biggest thing is to be sure you really want to enter the proverbial rabbit hole before you go in. Once you're in, it's deeper and either more fascinating or more terrifying than you ever realized. Just make sure you can handle that. If you're interested in working in medicine, I don't think you need a lecture on the being safe part, but that's obviously concern #1. Any of the "you should weight this much or lift this much before juicing" is purely arbitrary, judgmental bs. You can set those targets for yourself but I don't think its reasonable for anybody else to.

Thank you

 

[HealthForEternity]

Training on steroids is more fun, and it’s not as fun off. I still really enjoy training year round, but you have to accept times of fighting to maintain to balance out the periods of accelerated progression. You will have highs and lows, side effects, and most importantly: there will be a longterm cost to your health.

Having a higher BMI, even lean, is proven to be the prime driver of earlier mortality. High blood pressure and bad lipids, even temporarily, are wearing out kidneys and promoting LVH & atherosclerosis. Intelligent use and supplementing with the right supports can limit these things, but don’t kid yourself into believing there’s ever a fully free lunch. It’s not the same as true TRT with optimized hormone levels - anything out of range, high or low, impacts longevity.

The juice has got to be worth the squeeze to you.

Damn, Straight up. Thank you.

I see geriatric patients every day. health goes with age. If you can live like a king but you die at 75 rather than 85.... I think it may be worth it.

Im still researching and thinking about it all.

Thank you

 

[HealthForEternity]

Training on steroids is more fun, and it’s not as fun off. I still really enjoy training year round, but you have to accept times of fighting to maintain to balance out the periods of accelerated progression. You will have highs and lows, side effects, and most importantly: there will be a longterm cost to your health.

Having a higher BMI, even lean, is proven to be the prime driver of earlier mortality. High blood pressure and bad lipids, even temporarily, are wearing out kidneys and promoting LVH & atherosclerosis. Intelligent use and supplementing with the right supports can limit these things, but don’t kid yourself into believing there’s ever a fully free lunch. It’s not the same as true TRT with optimized hormone levels - anything out of range, high or low, impacts longevity.

The juice has got to be worth the squeeze to you.

Do you think there are negative effects for true TRT or HRT with optimized levels?

 

[Renew1]

I want to be on exogenous test when I'm older because the quality of life benefits of doctor monitored hormone replacement for older men. Steroid use (not abuse) can be beneficial for aging men. I am currently studying to be a physicians assistant and that's my current view on the topic. That being said knowing that will be my ultimate fate im interested in the notable effect of supraphysiological doses and the feeling of being "On".

Yeah I don't want to compete. If I cycle it would be a couple times a year or less.

You've made some assumptions that aren't (necessarily) true.

Some people are never satisfied with the way they feel on TRT.
And (I'm talking from personal experience now) some men have higher natural Test levels than some men on TRT.

Here is how I view it personally ... If someone wants to run gear, that is a choice they're making based upon their goals. But to plan to go on TRT (by choice, not need) is kind of like planning on going on insulin for the rest of your life (without need). You can do it, but you're already given a great natural process for that. The daily injections (besides being an extra thing you have to do every day) require dialing in, and may never quite get you the results you were hoping for.

 

[HealthForEternity]

You've made some assumptions that aren't (necessarily) true.

Some people are never satisfied with the way they feel on TRT.
And (I'm talking from personal experience now) some men have higher natural Test levels than some men on TRT.

Here is how I view it personally ... If someone wants to run gear, that is a choice they're making based upon their goals. But to plan to go on TRT (by choice, not need) is kind of like planning on going on insulin for the rest of your life (without need). You can do it, but you're already given a great natural process for that. The daily injections (besides being an extra thing you have to do every day) require dialing in, and may never quite get you the results you were hoping for.

I guess I was under the assumption that I feel great now... I will probably feel okay at 40... but would take a youthful dosage of test and feel great. hahaha maybe im too simple. Im sure there is more that goes into it. at least if TRT made me feel like **** I could be in line with my doctor and figure a game plan.

 

[Old Witch]

Do run some cycles, avoid trt.

Equate this to:

Do eat cake and ice cream, avoid diabetes.

 

[Old Witch]

I mean, do you really want to be hormonally dependent when the Zombie Apocalypse happens?

 

[Fasted]

Just like people know about how to juice better than they ever have, we also know how to use diet to maximize how your body makes hormones better than ever as well. If you are set on using gear, so be it, but i think you should still spend as much time as you can learning how to do things the way your body does naturally. It will only increase the gains you get when you do choose to gear up, but will allow you to manage the fewer variables you have now so when you add new things to your routine whether its a new diet or new gear youll be able to manage everything better. Basically, be natural for as long as you can and really find your natural potential threshold before moving to gear. Might find you dont need it with what youve learned by that point, or you may have just learned how to naturally compliment your gear as you decide the ronnie coleman look is too skinny.

 

[Whisky]

Training on steroids is more fun, and it’s not as fun off. I still really enjoy training year round, but you have to accept times of fighting to maintain to balance out the periods of accelerated progression. You will have highs and lows, side effects, and most importantly: there will be a longterm cost to your health.

Having a higher BMI, even lean, is proven to be the prime driver of earlier mortality. High blood pressure and bad lipids, even temporarily, are wearing out kidneys and promoting LVH & atherosclerosis. Intelligent use and supplementing with the right supports can limit these things, but don’t kid yourself into believing there’s ever a fully free lunch. It’s not the same as true TRT with optimized hormone levels - anything out of range, high or low, impacts longevity.

The juice has got to be worth the squeeze to you.

Yep, this, exactly this.

Ironically even intense exercise is a negative factor when it comes to longevity. Increasing mtor (even as a natty) reduces life expectancy. This is why low intensity exercise throughout the day and fasting (decreases mtor) both increase longevity.

However, for me personally I’d like to have a certain quality of life, both from an aesthetic standpoint and being strong and functional. I take a number of steps to increase longevity with a view that I might balance out some of the negatives from steroid use.

Regards your view about ‘wanting’ to be on hrt at 35 I’d personally wait and see where you are at come that time. I believe there is a point at which your natural hormones get to a level where it’s beneficial but you want to delay that for as long as possible. The level of self quantification we have available these days makes it easier than ever to know what is happening in your body and what are the optimal times to take certain approaches.

 

[Matthersby]

Yep, this, exactly this.

Ironically even intense exercise is a negative factor when it comes to longevity. Increasing mtor (even as a natty) reduces life expectancy. This is why low intensity exercise throughout the day and fasting (decreases mtor) both increase longevity.

However, for me personally I’d like to have a certain quality of life, both from an aesthetic standpoint and being strong and functional. I take a number of steps to increase longevity with a view that I might balance out some of the negatives from steroid use.

Regards your view about ‘wanting’ to be on hrt at 35 I’d personally wait and see where you are at come that time. I believe there is a point at which your natural hormones get to a level where it’s beneficial but you want to delay that for as long as possible. The level of self quantification we have available these days makes it easier than ever to know what is happening in your body and what are the optimal times to take certain approaches.

I’ve only been on only 4 years.
My prostate will never be within normal ranges again.
I’m likely going to have to start donating blood this year to keep hct/hgb in range.
I think about having a heart attack or bloodclot at least once a day.
My dick barely works without cialis.
My doctor saw my labs and told me I’m 3 times more likely to have a hear attack.
When I get angry my face turns purple. Like literally the color purple with some red too.
I take on average 3-4 drugs/week so I don’t grow boobs.



But ya it’s seriously fucking awesome and I wouldn’t take it back for anything.

 

[Hyde]

Do you think there are negative effects for true TRT or HRT with optimized levels?

For longevity, no, not compared to a man with low test and estrogen - but over someone who didn’t need it, yes.

I think you need to think about what you really want out of life, and why you should or shouldn’t consider taking steroids. If you just want to be fit and healthy and reasonably strong, stronger than all of the untrained population, you can certainly do that drug-free for many decades typically. Then you can go on TRT if ever things get too low for health.

 

[John Smeton]

I wouldn't recommend it. I started trt at 33 years old.

 

[Rad83]

“Cross that bridge when you get to it...”

 

[HealthForEternity]

I’ve only been on only 4 years.
My prostate will never be within normal ranges again.
I’m likely going to have to start donating blood this year to keep hct/hgb in range.
I think about having a heart attack or bloodclot at least once a day.
My dick barely works without cialis.
My doctor saw my labs and told me I’m 3 times more likely to have a hear attack.
When I get angry my face turns purple. Like literally the color purple with some red too.
I take on average 3-4 drugs/week so I don’t grow boobs.



But ya it’s seriously fucking awesome and I wouldn’t take it back for anything.

Why are you still on?

I know people who run moderately strong cycles... or at least claim to. they don't seem to have severe issues. but I have no reason not to believe u.

 

[Hyde]

Why are you still on?

I know people who run moderately strong cycles... or at least claim to. they don't seem to have severe issues. but I have no reason not to believe u.

Matthersby has mentioned to me before that finally after a particularly long cycle of 19-nor compounds he was no longer able to properly recover his natural test above like 200s.

This is fairly common in bodybuilders who stay on longer cycles and/or who use 19-nors significantly. I have personally known a couple guys tho who ran some deca or superdrol, respectively, and never recovered. Both went on TRT early 30s. Sometimes it’s the compound, and sometime it’s the individual response.

 

[Matthersby]

Matthersby has mentioned to me before that finally after a particularly long cycle of 19-nor compounds he was no longer able to properly recover his natural test above like 200s.

This is fairly common in bodybuilders who stay on longer cycles and/or who use 19-nors significantly. I have personally known a couple guys tho who ran some deca or superdrol, respectively, and never recovered. Both went on TRT early 30s. Sometimes it’s the compound, and sometime it’s the individual response.

There’s a few knowledgeable guys John S, Smont, OW, Ricky, can’t remember for sure, maybe all of them, but they’ve experienced very similar things. You run 4-8 week cycles in your late twenties early 30s, great pct, no problems, great recoveries, etc etc. and then you get cocky, run a monster cycle: 14-20 weeks. After running dozens of moderate cycles, you stay on for 1/3 of a year.
Guaranteed you can’t do that more than a few times on your 30s. You won’t recover.
So you can either suffer low test for life, or take the opportunity to stay on for good.

I think HealthforEternity misunderstood my satire.
I LOVE being on. Ya, I’ve got a few inconvenient health tings, but it’s 100% worth every bit of it.
I knew it would be, I went into that cycle fully knowing I may not recover and prepared to go on TRT.

 

[Matthersby]

Just trying to show that it’s not all amazing being “On” all the time. It comes with problems and requires more and more other drugs to counter the side effects of it.

 

[Mathb33]

I really like how you explained it. Sometimes I question myself on why I did all of this to end up on trt, but I wouldn’t change anything.

 

[TheBigJS]

Is working out enjoyable off cycle after experiencing the amazing benefits on?

Once you've entered the code you're never going to play again without it