Adaptogens/Nootropics Preworkout

Madevilz

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What adaptogens/nootropics/herbs do you personnally see an effect from for preworkout purpose?
I've been abusing stims for way too long, and would like the drastically reduce it. Trying to build a list of of non stims.
So far, the ones I see with the most evidence for strength and endurance are:
-Alpha GPC
-Rhodiola
-ALCAR
-Theanine

Already am using Ashwagandha and Shilajit.
What else do you guys like?
 
Resolve10

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What adaptogens/nootropics/herbs do you personnally see an effect from for preworkout purpose?
I've been abusing stims for way too long, and would like the drastically reduce it. Trying to build a list of of non stims.
So far, the ones I see with the most evidence for strength and endurance are:
-Alpha GPC
-Rhodiola
-ALCAR
-Theanine

Already am using Ashwagandha and Shilajit.
What else do you guys like?
That is a good starting list.

It is going to kind of depend on what you want as you are kind of looking at two separate areas. Nootropics may help with the lack of stims (or allow lower doses) but that won't always mean performance while some adaptogens and herbs may help with performance but not give you energy in the sense of stimulation.

That said...

Nootropics:
For pre-workout especially:
1) A Choline source (I think the Alpha-GPC thought here is great especially if looking at the possible performance boosting data, Citicoline is awesome for focus so it is worth trying both to see how you respond).

2) Tyrosine for limiting the depletion of Adrenaline and Dopamine during stress (like exercise).

3) I like ALCAR here as well.

1-2g Tyrosine + 300-600mg Alpha-GPC + 500-1000mg ALCAR is something I love either in combination with a little caffeine or none if you really want to go stim free. Toss some Dynamine and/or Teacrine in with a lower Caffeine amount can also help you "get away" with more bang for your buck for stimulation without a big Caffeine intake.

4) Potentially phosphatidylserine for exercice capacity and mental boost.

Adaptogens:
1) Rhodiola is an awesome and possibly my first choice for Adaptogens in regards to performance in a pre-workout setting. Make sure it is standardized and possibly look preferentially for Salidroside content if dosing pre-workout. Keep in mind more isn't always better with Rhodiola (it works on a u-shape curve so too much is detrimental), but 3-5mg of Salidrosides is a good starting point for pre-workout.

2) If you are already taking Ash that is awesome possibly look into Arjuna too if you do decent cardio or want more cardio benefits as this study showed solid benefits to both or each in isolation.

3) Eleutherococcus senticosus aka Siberian ginseng is a personal favorite for performance during stressful times, although not necessarily needed to be taken pre-workout.

4) Mushrooms. Kind of a broad category and some also work as Nootropics (Lions Mane in particular for cognitive and anti-inflammatory benefits). Cordyceps in particular for actual training performance. PeakO2 is one of my absolute favorite ingredients for performance.

Ok so I could probably list more and hopefully that isn't too much to read, but can maybe get you started and get you thinking!
 

Madevilz

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That is a good starting list.

It is going to kind of depend on what you want as you are kind of looking at two separate areas. Nootropics may help with the lack of stims (or allow lower doses) but that won't always mean performance while some adaptogens and herbs may help with performance but not give you energy in the sense of stimulation.

That said...

Nootropics:
For pre-workout especially:
1) A Choline source (I think the Alpha-GPC thought here is great especially if looking at the possible performance boosting data, Citicoline is awesome for focus so it is worth trying both to see how you respond).

2) Tyrosine for limiting the depletion of Adrenaline and Dopamine during stress (like exercise).

3) I like ALCAR here as well.

1-2g Tyrosine + 300-600mg Alpha-GPC + 500-1000mg ALCAR is something I love either in combination with a little caffeine or none if you really want to go stim free. Toss some Dynamine and/or Teacrine in with a lower Caffeine amount can also help you "get away" with more bang for your buck for stimulation without a big Caffeine intake.

4) Potentially phosphatidylserine for exercice capacity and mental boost.

Adaptogens:
1) Rhodiola is an awesome and possibly my first choice for Adaptogens in regards to performance in a pre-workout setting. Make sure it is standardized and possibly look preferentially for Salidroside content if dosing pre-workout. Keep in mind more isn't always better with Rhodiola (it works on a u-shape curve so too much is detrimental), but 3-5mg of Salidrosides is a good starting point for pre-workout.

2) If you are already taking Ash that is awesome possibly look into Arjuna too if you do decent cardio or want more cardio benefits as this study showed solid benefits to both or each in isolation.

3) Eleutherococcus senticosus aka Siberian ginseng is a personal favorite for performance during stressful times, although not necessarily needed to be taken pre-workout.

4) Mushrooms. Kind of a broad category and some also work as Nootropics (Lions Mane in particular for cognitive and anti-inflammatory benefits). Cordyceps in particular for actual training performance. PeakO2 is one of my absolute favorite ingredients for performance.

Ok so I could probably list more and hopefully that isn't too much to read, but can maybe get you started and get you thinking!
Great post man. Thanks!
 
ELROCK

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What adaptogens/nootropics/herbs do you personnally see an effect from for preworkout purpose?
I've been abusing stims for way too long, and would like the drastically reduce it. Trying to build a list of of non stims.
So far, the ones I see with the most evidence for strength and endurance are:
-Alpha GPC
-Rhodiola
-ALCAR
-Theanine

Already am using Ashwagandha and Shilajit.
What else do you guys like?
Add in 2+ grams of cordyceps (or 1 gram of ND’s cordyceps 10:1 extract) or 4 grams of Peak02 mushroom blend.
 
The Express 42

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I’ve recently put together my own nootropic preworkout and the effects have been phenomenal. Having awesome workouts!

Cordyceps 10:1 - 500mg

Rhodiola Rosea 3% salidrosides - 500mg

GS 15-4 - 200mg

Sulbutamine - 200mg

L Tyrosine - 1G

I mix it with one scoop of SNS Focus XT and one scoop of SNS Energized Aminos. Phenomenal energy/focus/endurance that lasts for hours without crash.

I also take 20g of HBCD preworkout as well.
 
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bell1986

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Sulbutiamine + Tyrosine is decent without feeling the stimmed out feeling.

Their are others that are in a different category. Modafinil... Phenylpiracetam... Bromantane etc. These all hit the dopamine system. These are more focus than energy compounds. Constant dopamine spikes over time aren't good overall. Can cause dopamine receptor downregulation over time and once you stop the dopamine boosting chemical you can get lethargy' depression' anxiety etc so like ANY pre workout. Use it sparingly if you do go down this route.

Dmaa/Dmha etc boost noradrenaline/norepinephrine levels. Yes they give energy but for me personally. That aftermath crash stinks! Also they cause awful vasoconstriction. Which can hinder gains and cause a variety of sides. Headaches etc. I love the rush but the sides well over power the benefits. Don't touch it now

Experiment and see what works
 
drseuss6969

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Add in 2+ grams of cordyceps (or 1 gram of ND’s cordyceps 10:1 extract) or 4 grams of Peak02 mushroom blend.
I just got in some nd 10:1 extract. I thought the 250mg dose seemed too small. I know you have experimented a lot, would you recommend 2g of peak02 with 500mg of 10:1?
 
drseuss6969

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Add in 2+ grams of cordyceps (or 1 gram of ND’s cordyceps 10:1 extract) or 4 grams of Peak02 mushroom blend.
I just got in some nd 10:1 extract. I thought the 250mg dose seemed too small. I know you have experimented a lot, would you recommend 2g of peak02 with 500mg of 10:1?
 

aaronuconn

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That is a good starting list.

It is going to kind of depend on what you want as you are kind of looking at two separate areas. Nootropics may help with the lack of stims (or allow lower doses) but that won't always mean performance while some adaptogens and herbs may help with performance but not give you energy in the sense of stimulation.

That said...

Nootropics:
For pre-workout especially:
1) A Choline source (I think the Alpha-GPC thought here is great especially if looking at the possible performance boosting data, Citicoline is awesome for focus so it is worth trying both to see how you respond).

2) Tyrosine for limiting the depletion of Adrenaline and Dopamine during stress (like exercise).

3) I like ALCAR here as well.

1-2g Tyrosine + 300-600mg Alpha-GPC + 500-1000mg ALCAR is something I love either in combination with a little caffeine or none if you really want to go stim free. Toss some Dynamine and/or Teacrine in with a lower Caffeine amount can also help you "get away" with more bang for your buck for stimulation without a big Caffeine intake.

4) Potentially phosphatidylserine for exercice capacity and mental boost.

Adaptogens:
1) Rhodiola is an awesome and possibly my first choice for Adaptogens in regards to performance in a pre-workout setting. Make sure it is standardized and possibly look preferentially for Salidroside content if dosing pre-workout. Keep in mind more isn't always better with Rhodiola (it works on a u-shape curve so too much is detrimental), but 3-5mg of Salidrosides is a good starting point for pre-workout.

2) If you are already taking Ash that is awesome possibly look into Arjuna too if you do decent cardio or want more cardio benefits as this study showed solid benefits to both or each in isolation.

3) Eleutherococcus senticosus aka Siberian ginseng is a personal favorite for performance during stressful times, although not necessarily needed to be taken pre-workout.

4) Mushrooms. Kind of a broad category and some also work as Nootropics (Lions Mane in particular for cognitive and anti-inflammatory benefits). Cordyceps in particular for actual training performance. PeakO2 is one of my absolute favorite ingredients for performance.

Ok so I could probably list more and hopefully that isn't too much to read, but can maybe get you started and get you thinking!
Great post. Siberian Ginseng is underrated.


 

Madevilz

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Great post. Siberian Ginseng is underrated.


Is there an extract I should use, or is eleuthero root good enough?
Examine says 2 to 4g, what's the optimal dosage?
 

aaronuconn

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Is there an extract I should use, or is eleuthero root good enough?
Examine says 2 to 4g, what's the optimal dosage?
That’s a good question. I only used it in the old Anabeta Elite, and that was part of a prop blend with Lodhra, Anacyclus, Eleuthero, and Forskolin IIRC at 3200mg
 
ELROCK

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I just got in some nd 10:1 extract. I thought the 250mg dose seemed too small. I know you have experimented a lot, would you recommend 2g of peak02 with 500mg of 10:1?
For me 1 gram ND cordyceps 10:1 extract is better than 4 grams Peak02. I feel 500mg of the ND 10:1 extract is similar to 2 grams Peak02 for me.
 
sns8778

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Focus XT is a great well rounded nootropic that many use for pre-workout and other purposes and has a caffeine free version available. Here are the supplement facts for both versions:

Focus XT - Regular (with Caffeine & TeaCrine):

FocusXT Label (Pink Lemonade) Supp Facts.png


Focus XT - Stim Free:

FocusXT Label (Fruit Punch) Supp Facts.png
 
sns8778

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Agmatine is also very underrated for its nootropic purposes and has some great pre-workout benefits as well.
 
The Express 42

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Agmatine is also very underrated for its nootropic purposes and has some great pre-workout benefits as well.
Ooh yes! I also add SNS Agmatine XT as well for extra pumps and cognition
 

alvin1

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Alpha GPC and Rhodiola have immediat impact, good to use right before a work out. Alpha GPC have a study for strengh gain and Rhodiola have ( base on a book I got) impact on ATP and on focus two of the best preworkout in my view

I often take time before volleyball game and my reaction time is way better!

The herbs pharm Euleutheroo (siberian ginseng) is suppose to be the best and stronger extraction as I read (in a book also)
 
JKVol

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Alpha GPC and Rhodiola have immediat impact, good to use right before a work out. Alpha GPC have a study for strengh gain and Rhodiola have ( base on a book I got) impact on ATP and on focus two of the best preworkout in my view

I often take time before volleyball game and my reaction time is way better!

The herbs pharm Euleutheroo (siberian ginseng) is suppose to be the best and stronger extraction as I read (in a book also)
Question about Euleulthero..... does it need to be taken daily for results or can it be taken for whenever you might want it?
 

N2ofusion

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Ooh yes! I also add SNS Agmatine XT as well for extra pumps and cognition
Absolutely. I cannot do a non-stim (well, light stim) day without a solid 1,000 mg of agmatine. I took 500 mg in the PWO stack for a while and never noticed it. But it really shines at 1,000-1,200 mg, potentiates basically anything else you take with it. Rhodiola and Ashwagandha in particular come alive once agmatine is part of the equation.

Also, tea is a good balance in general if you want some caffeine without having side effects. It also doesn't seem to affect my tolerance like PWO's do. I can reset with tea and keep almost the same tolerance as resetting with a full caffeine break. I used to do that and feel really groggy. A non-stim pre, extra agmatine, and a bit of tea go a very long way for a low stim but enjoyable workout.

Final note- I have much better luck using light noots for lifting rather than cardio, or in general, workouts that are interesting (hiking, skiing, etc). Cardio without at least moderate stims is boring if it's indoors (given that it's the middle of winter, I'm assuming most are doing cardio indoors).
 

alvin1

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Yes siberian ginseng need to be take every day, base on what I have read, it increase V0max2 and endurance. I have not try the herb pĥarm product yet, but I have use it in a blend of other adaptogen.

So I can not say for sure how I react to siberian ginseng , or advice you, other then what I have read on it
 
Resolve10

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Question about Euleulthero..... does it need to be taken daily for results or can it be taken for whenever you might want it?
Daily I believe. I don't even usually take it selectively pre-workout when I use it.
 

aaronuconn

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I feel like there’s potential for someone to come out with a Siberian Ginseng product standardized for eleutherosides B & E. There’s limited products available today
 
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