abortion vs car manslaughter

[Nullifidian]

To futher what Jmin was saying... to me it comes down to the break down of the family and neighborhood. Single parents or both parents working all the time. Kids unsupervised at the will of the streets so to speak.

Also growing up if you did something in the neighborhood and somebody saw you an Ass-kicking was coming. Now you try and tell parents... No way not my child! Philly neighborhoods were known for it`s clean marble steps and the fact that families kept the neighborhood clean
and safe.

When is the last time you heard anyone below 30 use the term "Yes Sir or No Sir". **** when we were kids and the cops pulled up they were the only words you used. I`ve run more kids off as my childrens friends than you can imagine. My son got an F a couple of years ago and got grounded 30days. He tells me well my friend got 4 F`s and he isn`t grounded. Guess what he isn`t your friend anymore! Not that mine are angels but they damn well know if you **** up you will be in a whole mess of trouble.

This is not a shot at anyone just an observation from where I sit. I am sure there is lots of good kids out there just not enough it seems.

While I STRONGLY disagree that abortion stance has anything to do with "moral fiber", I do strongly AGREE that the moral fiber of our country as erroded. This IMO lies primarily on:

1) The media
2) The government

Since the widescale implementation of "social programs", we have instituted a culture of dependency in inner cities. This has harbored an entitlement mentality in these areas and has removed the concept of personal responsibility.

This is further coupled with the fact that the media glorifies slackers and gangsters. All you see on MTV are gangster rappers showing "bling". A bunch of numbskulls with no concept of morals, all style and no substance. These have become the young generation's role models.

Add on top of that the rise in cost of living which has resulted in families requiring two incomes to survive and you have parents who are no longer involved in their children's development.


The final straw is that the media has increased our society's focus on personal gratification and away from collaborative effort. As a result, the concept of the extended family has been broken down. Large families work all pool their resources to contribute for the greater good of the family find success in our society. This is seen in many immigrant populations such as Indian and Chinese families where in many cases every member of the family contributes what they can towards a family business. This comes from a strong cultural history of family bonds, as well as the fact that in their home country working as an entire family is for the most part the ONLY way to survive at a reasonable quality of life. In any case, these businesses thrive as a result of this collaborative effort. Individual people do not commonly have the resources necessary to achieve success in business in the US. Families however frequently do. As such, an increase in emphasis on the concept of collaboration among family members to contribute to the entire family's success would contribute toward the overall likelihood of success for the common American.

 

[EEmain]

While I STRONGLY disagree that abortion stance has anything to do with "moral fiber", I do strongly AGREE that the moral fiber of our country as erroded. This IMO lies primarily on:

1) The media
2) The government

Since the widescale implementation of "social programs", we have instituted a culture of dependency in inner cities. This has harbored an entitlement mentality in these areas and has removed the concept of personal responsibility.

This is further coupled with the fact that the media glorifies slackers and gangsters. All you see on MTV are gangster rappers showing "bling". A bunch of numbskulls with no concept of morals, all style and no substance. These have become the young generation's role models.

Add on top of that the rise in cost of living which has resulted in families requiring two incomes to survive and you have parents who are no longer involved in their children's development.


The final straw is that the media has increased our society's focus on personal gratification and away from collaborative effort. As a result, the concept of the extended family has been broken down. Large families work all pool their resources to contribute for the greater good of the family find success in our society. This is seen in many immigrant populations such as Indian and Chinese families where in many cases every member of the family contributes what they can towards a family business. This comes from a strong cultural history of family bonds, as well as the fact that in their home country working as an entire family is for the most part the ONLY way to survive at a reasonable quality of life. In any case, these businesses thrive as a result of this collaborative effort. Individual people do not commonly have the resources necessary to achieve success in business in the US. Families however frequently do. As such, an increase in emphasis on the concept of collaboration among family members to contribute to the entire family's success would contribute toward the overall likelihood of success for the common American.

Sorry that was a rant. Not an assumption about abortion. Null it is the parents job to raise the children not the media or the government. When we don`t get involved no matter the reason<excuse> they do. But then this is a whole new thread isn`t it?:icon_lol:


I spent the better part of the day at family court trying to settle custody on the 3 year old we have had for 14 months. Mom is dead, daddy is in jail.
DHS gives me and my wife custody, the courts through an error gave just my wife custody. In order to get this child on my beneifts I need legal custody. Anyhow I will get to the point. After seeing what goes on at this court with the all kids that were there today. I have to wonder if some may have been better off never being born:jaw:

 

[Nullifidian]

My whole POINT was that it is the parents' responsibility, not the government. As I said, it is the government giving handouts that has led to this entitlement mentality and consequently a total lack of personal responsibility on the part of parents which then gets passed down to their kids.

 

[Alexander]

Here's how the law works regarding unborn children:

unborn children are recognized under the law as living beings, HOWEVER, they are subject to different laws than most people. Just as children under the a certain age are subject to different laws.

Children under the age of 18 cannot vote for example. In most cases, children under 18 cannot go to jail, only be sentenced to a juvy facility. Children under 18 cannot be sentenced most times for any more time than until their 18th birthday.

You see, recognized as alive but governed by different laws.


Unborn children have these laws: their life may be terminated WITH CONSENT FROM THE MOTHER (with limimtations which vary state to state). Some of the limitations include a further restriction past the second trimester. In those situations usually the law is changed to the child may be terminated with consent from the mother only if the mother's life is put in jeopardy by the child.


Given that specific distinction under the law, it is CLEAR AS DAY, that legally, no one other than the mother may give consent to terminate an unborn child. As such, if the child is terminated by someone without the mother's consent, that person is guilty of murder by default. I say by default because unless the situation is under the special case mentioned above, it follows the same laws as everyone else. So, since the mother didn't give consent for the other motorist to kill her unborn child, the motorist under the law is guilty fo murder.


It is a very very simple, clearcut situation. There is no confusion here.

Well put, thank you!!

 

[EEmain]

My whole POINT was that it is the parents' responsibility, not the government. As I said, it is the government giving handouts that has led to this entitlement mentality and consequently a total lack of personal responsibility on the part of parents which then gets passed down to their kids.

So then this phenomena is isolated to the inner-city then? I couldn`t imagine it would happen in suburbia:blink:

 

[Nullifidian]

So then this phenomena is isolated to the inner-city then? I couldn`t imagine it would happen in suburbia:blink:

It's not isoltaed to the inner cities at all because government programs aren't just for inner cities. Years of entitlement in all areas, from welfare to telling us what drugs we can or can't take, to picking which movies we can watch, the government has removed the sense of personal responsibility from the majority of the entire populace.

The entitlement mentality is least common in recent immigrants who have little to no knowledge of these government programs. Mind you the opposite is true of immigrants who are aware of the programs before entering this country; many people in those groups came to this country in the first place just to steal tax dollars.


Entitlement mentality also seems to TEND to be less common in 2 parent families with 1 income. Reason is that one parent is there at all times to oversee the children and provide guidance.

 

[EEmain]

:clap2:

It's not isoltaed to the inner cities at all because government programs aren't just for inner cities. Years of entitlement in all areas, from welfare to telling us what drugs we can or can't take, to picking which movies we can watch, the government has removed the sense of personal responsibility from the majority of the entire populace.

The entitlement mentality is least common in recent immigrants who have little to no knowledge of these government programs. Mind you the opposite is true of immigrants who are aware of the programs before entering this country; many people in those groups came to this country in the first place just to steal tax dollars.


Entitlement mentality also seems to TEND to be less common in 2 parent families with 1 income. Reason is that one parent is there at all times to oversee the children and provide guidance.

Thank you for the sane and lucid response to a smart-ass question!
I wanted to see where you would go with this and you obviously have thought this out fully.

 

[Nullifidian]

By entitlement of course I'm not just talking about money. The average US citizen, now expects the government to:

1) Give them money if they don't have a job
2) Censor what's on TV for their kids
3) Tell them what substances they are or aren't permitted to take
4) Provide them with free healthcare (medicare/medicaid)
5) Force them to save for retirement and then pay them more than what they put in (social security)

And well, basically do everthing that people should be doing for themselves. So what happens when the government fucks it up as they always do and do so well? We get fucked up people with no sense of personal responsibility and a brain defect that makes them think everything needs to be handed to them on a silver platter without their having to lift a damn finger.

 

[spatch]

By entitlement of course I'm not just talking about money. The average US citizen, now expects the government to:

1) Give them money if they don't have a job
2) Censor what's on TV for their kids
3) Tell them what substances they are or aren't permitted to take
4) Provide them with free healthcare (medicare/medicaid)
5) Force them to save for retirement and then pay them more than what they put in (social security)

And well, basically do everthing that people should be doing for themselves. So what happens when the government fucks it up as they always do and do so well? We get fucked up people with no sense of personal responsibility and a brain defect that makes them think everything needs to be handed to them on a silver platter without their having to lift a damn finger.

:goodpost: :goodpost: :study: :study: :cheers: :cheers: :box:

 

[spatch]

The logic that is typically used is because most pro-lifers are Christian Conservatives who use the bible as their source and more specifically "thou shalt not kill".

Thus the counter argument is "thou shalt not kill" is a full blanket meaning you aren't allowed to kill ANYONE, not just unborn children. This of course is only addressing those who use that commandment for their justification in being against abortion.

Exactly. Very well put.