A more effective 11-OXO

timmylong2725

New member
If I am not mistaken, the only available oral 11-oxo's as of late are 11-oxo-androstenedione AKA adrenosterone AKA androst-4-ene-3,11,17-trione.

But, we already know from the work that PA did in the late 90's that delta 4,5 steroids are way more effective orally with two hydroxyls on 3 and 17 instead of 2 ketones - that is why 4-androstenediol replaced androstenedione in the PH arms race to the best testosterone precursor.

Of course, there was also an aromatase component to it as androstenedione is a direct substrate while 4-A-Diol is not.

Since there seems to be no legal trouble that PA or others are getting into selling the oral adrenosterone, why don't they do the logical thing and start selling 11-keto-4-androstenediol AKA adrenosterone with the ketones on 3 and 17 replaced by hydroxyls?

It would almost certainly be a 3-fold (or more) more efficient precursor to 11-KT when swallowed. Just like 1-AD, I'm sure that 11-keto-4-AD is naturally occurring in tiny amounts, so it's not synthetic per-se like M1T or other methylated derivatives.

Maybe they just don't think the extra synthesis work is worth it?
 
A few years ago I believe prototype briefly sold 11-keto-boldenone . Wasn’t out for long though then was never restocked . I remember someone on here said they had a pretty decent run with it.

If I recall Spectra Force oxyguno was 17-aa-11-keto-boldenone.
 
two things of note: 1. just because it looks good on paper, doesn't mean it will work as intended. 2. cost prohibitive.

combine the two, receive the answer you seek.
 
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xR1pp3Rx said:
two things of note: 1. just because it looks good on paper, doesn't mean it will work as intended. 2 cost prohibitive.

combine the two, receive the answer you seek.
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My answer was this👆, that it sounds better on paper and the cost would likely be so high no1 could afford it.
 
nostrum420 said:
Why not just use 11-KT?
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Am I misremembering or did you guys offer it once upon a time? I'm thinking the old bottles. I've run it from a couple of different companies and thought one of them was Apex.
 
1nce upon a time I also took 500mgs a week of Trest.

giphy.gif
 
I’m a sucker for theoretical compound threads

Stumbled upon a paper the other day where someone synthesized un methylated anavar via some new way they put a 2-oxa group on .
 
Rockslide said:
I’m a sucker for theoretical compound threads

Stumbled upon a paper the other day where someone synthesized un methylated anavar via some new way they put a 2-oxa group on .
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Believe it or not I was the one who found that paper. I'm not joking. I can link the OP on another forum where I reported on it. One of the study authors was Georgi Dinkov.
 
For me these old and current prohormones were great on their first couple runs but over time companies water them down and the affects are minimal. 11kt for me when it first came out years ago was great, now I've taken it and minimal results. I see it from other people's logs too. Either raws suck and companies still keep the product going or the dosage is cut for profit. Same as the first halodrols and SD. People convince themselves oh my body doesn't do good with those designers anymore, it's because it's not what it use to be. Just my opinion.
 
mase1 said:
For me these old and current prohormones were great on their first couple runs but over time companies water them down and the affects are minimal. 11kt for me when it first came out years ago was great, now I've taken it and minimal results. I see it from other people's logs too. Either raws suck and companies still keep the product going or the dosage is cut for profit. Same as the first halodrols and SD. People convince themselves oh my body doesn't do good with those designers anymore, it's because it's not what it use to be. Just my opinion.
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To be fair.... I can Guarantee you that not every company does that.
:)
 
timmylong2725 said:
I would take it orally if it was available. It can't aromatize (or so I've read), it would be better than androstenedione in that regard.
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I don’t have proof of this but a lot of people report that 11-oxo was more effective orally than 11-kt is. Might just be because it’s doses higher but this can be a thing. Some of the non methylated pros survive the stomach acid better than the target hormone . If you ate a bunch of oral boldenone for example I don’t think it would do much but boldione was pretty effective back in the day
 
Rockslide said:
A few years ago I believe prototype briefly sold 11-keto-boldenone . Wasn’t out for long though then was never restocked . I remember someone on here said they had a pretty decent run with it.

If I recall Spectra Force oxyguno was 17-aa-11-keto-boldenone.
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i took oxyguno the month it came out, bought it from dps nutrition along with hemoguno(epistane) and furaguno a 17b thp ether furazabol. oxyguno was 11 keto clostebol. they were blue oblong tablets, has a slight bitter taste when you would chew them. the bottle came with in a nice paper box with a thin paper pamphlet inside from what i can remember, you had to dose it pretty high. gave me a headache as do all 11hsd inhibitors. on paper it was supposed to be very anabolic but acted more as a anti glucocorticoid from the results i got from it looking back in retrospect
 
i also believe someone tested oxyguno and it had other similar chemical structures to 11keto clostebol that may have been impurities or unreacted intermediates
 
lanky said:
thats awesome, its a stable chemical structure so i doubt it lost any potency
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BigGame84 said:
Was it any good? Not even sure 1 bottle is enough for a cycle.
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the way the product was marketed from a A:A ratio you were expecting M1t like gains. looking back at all the message boards most people were let down by this product, in reality it acted as a 11hsd inhibitor so people did not get huge gains but maybe a little bit of recomp. i remember being a little more dry. people were taking large doses of this and expecting a dose dependant response. this product may act better at low doses long term as do most 11hsd inhibitors
 
furaguno definitely made me a little more vascular and full but no overt strength. i specifically remember female coworkers gathered around me checking out my veins on my forearms on nightshift in the late spring/early summer of 2007.lol........core memory unlocked
 
mase1 said:
For me these old and current prohormones were great on their first couple runs but over time companies water them down and the affects are minimal. 11kt for me when it first came out years ago was great, now I've taken it and minimal results. I see it from other people's logs too. Either raws suck and companies still keep the product going or the dosage is cut for profit. Same as the first halodrols and SD. People convince themselves oh my body doesn't do good with those designers anymore, it's because it's not what it use to be. Just my opinion.
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Do you think that's actually the reason because I have a different theory. And this is also my opinion as I don't really know. But my guess is that Andros and sarms and some of these prohormones are fairly weak by comparison to anadrol, winni,test, tren ect. When you first try them you are new to anabolics and they work great because we're newbs. Just like if I ran 300 mg of testosterone on my first second third and 10th cycle I would not keep seeing results, probably by the 4th or 5th cycle I would argue that the 300 mg is doing nothing at all. I use to feel like you and I thought hdrol was awesome the first time, 50mg for 1 month and I gained 13 lb of what I thought was muscle at the time, it was probably more like 1-2 lb of muscle lol. But next time 50 did nothing and I went to 75 and got a little and I was starting to think I did not like H drol or it wasn't real anymore. Then I did 125 for 6 weeks and for a long time it became my favorite.

What I'm getting at is if I came off testosterone and I was to run the original one ad and 4 ad I don't think I would notice anything because my last cycle was a thousand total milligrams between test and EQ and no amount of 1ad is gonna build more muscle then 1000mg of test or test and whatever your anabolic of choice.

Try running 50mg of anadrol solo 3 cycles in a row and I'd bet by the 3rd you're wondering if you're anadrol is real.


Does it make sense? And I'm genuinely asking if it makes sense because I start wondering myself if I sound ridiculous or not lol. Because I know gear always works but every time we use something I feel like our expectations change and the results are always going to be a little bit less than last time anyways that's just kind of how things work. I mean if muscle gains were linear on every cycle I would be 350 lb 4XL T-shirt wearing monster by now, but I'm still only rocking a 1XL 😢
 
Smont said:
Do you think that's actually the reason because I have a different theory. And this is also my opinion as I don't really know. But my guess is that Andros and sarms and some of these prohormones are fairly weak by comparison to anadrol, winni,test, tren ect. When you first try them you are new to anabolics and they work great because we're newbs. Just like if I ran 300 mg of testosterone on my first second third and 10th cycle I would not keep seeing results, probably by the 4th or 5th cycle I would argue that the 300 mg is doing nothing at all. I use to feel like you and I thought hdrol was awesome the first time, 50mg for 1 month and I gained 13 lb of what I thought was muscle at the time, it was probably more like 1-2 lb of muscle lol. But next time 50 did nothing and I went to 75 and got a little and I was starting to think I did not like H drol or it wasn't real anymore. Then I did 125 for 6 weeks and for a long time it became my favorite.

What I'm getting at is if I came off testosterone and I was to run the original one ad and 4 ad I don't think I would notice anything because my last cycle was a thousand total milligrams between test and EQ and no amount of 1ad is gonna build more muscle then 1000mg of test or test and whatever your anabolic of choice.

Try running 50mg of anadrol solo 3 cycles in a row and I'd bet by the 3rd you're wondering if you're anadrol is real.


Does it make sense? And I'm genuinely asking if it makes sense because I start wondering myself if I sound ridiculous or not lol. Because I know gear always works but every time we use something I feel like our expectations change and the results are always going to be a little bit less than last time anyways that's just kind of how things work. I mean if muscle gains were linear on every cycle I would be 350 lb 4XL T-shirt wearing monster by now, but I'm still only rocking a 1XL 😢
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It makes sense that one of our theories is correct. Guess I go back to the profits these companies are looking to make. 125mg vs 50mg or 5 pills vs 2 pills and still selling as 60 cap bottle. But my view is first time on halodrol 50mg great gains, vascularity, hardness, and huge libido boost and energy. Next time more lethargy and lowered libido.
All from reputable companies. But yes one of us is right. Lol
 
lanky said:
the way the product was marketed from a A:A ratio you were expecting M1t like gains. looking back at all the message boards most people were let down by this product, in reality it acted as a 11hsd inhibitor so people did not get huge gains but maybe a little bit of recomp. i remember being a little more dry. people were taking large doses of this and expecting a dose dependant response. this product may act better at low doses long term as do most 11hsd inhibitors
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I kind of suspect this too. Was probably ran wrong. I feel like it would be one of those that would be a nice trt add on at a low-moderate dose ran 8-12 weeks. It didn’t seem that toxic ….but…. The problem being that with basically no human data would be very hard to know what true dose is needed and what time frame is safe

Kind of jealous of BigGame though, it’s one I always wanted to try
 
Rockslide said:
I kind of suspect this too. Was probably ran wrong. I feel like it would be one of those that would be a nice trt add on at a low-moderate dose ran 8-12 weeks. It didn’t seem that toxic ….but…. The problem being that with basically no human data would be very hard to know what true dose is needed and what time frame is safe

Kind of jealous of BigGame though, it’s one I always wanted to try
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definitely jealous myself also:), definitely no data that i am aware of for studies that is readily available, i dont remember any side effects except headaches which happens with all 11hsd inhibitors for me
 
Smont said:
Do you think that's actually the reason because I have a different theory. And this is also my opinion as I don't really know. But my guess is that Andros and sarms and some of these prohormones are fairly weak by comparison to anadrol, winni,test, tren ect. When you first try them you are new to anabolics and they work great because we're newbs. Just like if I ran 300 mg of testosterone on my first second third and 10th cycle I would not keep seeing results, probably by the 4th or 5th cycle I would argue that the 300 mg is doing nothing at all. I use to feel like you and I thought hdrol was awesome the first time, 50mg for 1 month and I gained 13 lb of what I thought was muscle at the time, it was probably more like 1-2 lb of muscle lol. But next time 50 did nothing and I went to 75 and got a little and I was starting to think I did not like H drol or it wasn't real anymore. Then I did 125 for 6 weeks and for a long time it became my favorite.

What I'm getting at is if I came off testosterone and I was to run the original one ad and 4 ad I don't think I would notice anything because my last cycle was a thousand total milligrams between test and EQ and no amount of 1ad is gonna build more muscle then 1000mg of test or test and whatever your anabolic of choice.

Try running 50mg of anadrol solo 3 cycles in a row and I'd bet by the 3rd you're wondering if you're anadrol is real.


Does it make sense? And I'm genuinely asking if it makes sense because I start wondering myself if I sound ridiculous or not lol. Because I know gear always works but every time we use something I feel like our expectations change and the results are always going to be a little bit less than last time anyways that's just kind of how things work. I mean if muscle gains were linear on every cycle I would be 350 lb 4XL T-shirt wearing monster by now, but I'm still only rocking a 1XL 😢
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Yes, I would agree with this. This is what makes AAS similar to other drugs.

A lot of people who become drug addicts always chase that original high. In order to do so, they keep increasing the dose or move on to stronger and stronger drugs to get the job done. AAS isn't really any different.

If you start off at 500mgs of test you'll get great results on that first cycle. But if you keep running 500mgs of test for every cycle, you'll just plateau. Your body will eventually get as big and as strong as it can get on 500mgs of test. Now the only other option to get more results is to either increase the dose or add a new AAS into the cycle.

If someone never tried marijuana before and takes 1 hit, they will get very high. But if they start taking 1 hit every single day, then eventually they'll need to take 2 hits to get high... then 3 hits... you can apply this to literally any drug, including AAS.
 
Furaguno is a designer steroid that resembles furazabol, the Japanese steroid that Ben Johnson used in the eighties and that doping hunters couldn't trace. The difference between furazabol and the active ingredient in Furaguno is that furazabol has a methyl group attached to the seventeenth carbon atom, whereas the anabolic in Furaguno has an ether group in that position. The full name of the ether-analogue is 17b-tetrahydropyran 2-yloxy-5-alpha-androstano-[2,3-c]-furazan. We found this in a patent filed in 1966.
Lab tests: Furaguno and Oxyguno
Whatever.
The lab that determined the active ingredient – structure formula on the right – found exactly the same substance in the green pills, as is mentioned on the label.
A designer supplement that should contain the same substance as Furaguno is Furazadrol. We have no analyses of these yet.
The story of another designer supplement from Spectra Force Research, Oxyguno, is slightly more complex.
Lab tests: Furaguno and Oxyguno
According to the label, the active ingredient in Oxyguno is an anabolic called 11-oxo-methylclostebol. This steroid is mentioned in Julius Vida's bible of anabolic agents. According to this hallowed standard reference book of androgen lovers, 11-oxo-methylclostebol only has seven percent of the androgen effect of testosterone and at least 850 percent of the anabolic effect of testosterone. Hallelujah!
That's what the doping doctors in the DDR thought as well. They did experiments in the eighties with an analogue of the super-anabolic: 11b-hydroxy-methylclostebol. In the secret files of the DDR, doctors also referred to the anabolic as Substanz XII. The drug hadn't even undergone safety tests on rats, but the East Germans gave it to their athletes. The drugs was called Substanz XII. The East Germans even kept this obscure anabolic secret from their comrades in the USSR.
To cut a long story short, the lab that analysed the contents of the blue Oxyguno lozenges found both anabolics. If we had to bet on it, we'd put our money on the Spectra Force Research factory having wanted to make the 11-oxo-analogue from the 11-beta-hydroxy-analogue. It is easier to get 11-beta-hydroxy steroid raw materials than 11-oxo steroid raw materials.
Lab tests: Furaguno and Oxyguno

Above left is 11-oxo-methylclostebol, the substance in Oxyguno according to the label. On the right is 11-beta-hydroxy-methylclostebol alias Substanz XII. How much active ingredient the pills contain we do not know.
 
Never got to try furaza either . Probably just bro lore but I’ve seen where the target hormone was described as winny with less joint pain and much easier on the lipids. Who knows if that is true though… some of these compounds carry that lore though because they are so rare …. Injectable stenbolone is another that comes to mind
 
Rockslide said:
Never got to try furaza either . Probably just bro lore but I’ve seen where the target hormone was described as winny with less joint pain and much easier on the lipids. Who knows if that is true though… some of these compounds carry that lore though because they are so rare …. Injectable stenbolone is another that comes to mind
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I remember a local shop years back was going out of business and they had a sale. They had one bottle of Olympus Labs Furaza but I actually passed on it. Based on what I read at the time, it needed to be dosed ridiculously high and one bottle was not going to be enough for a legit cycle. So I passed.
 
I did try furaza from a totally different company than spectra force research and it was bunk. My mistake of buying 3 bottles. I cant remember what brand but it came in capsules unlike the lime green coated small tablets of furaguno
 
I ran Furaza by LGI when they carried it briefly…was exactly like oral Winny but expensive to run it high for 8 weeks
 
Dblock said:
I ran Furaza by LGI when they carried it briefly…was exactly like oral Winny but expensive to run it high for 8 weeks
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running that for 8 weeks at a solid dose would definitely put me in the poor house. i cant remember the pricing on the spectra force products but i remember they were somewhere around $80-120 a bottle if my mind serves me correct, and that was 2006-2007 prices. i think the hemoguno(epistane) was the cheapest of the 3
 
Rockslide said:
Never got to try furaza either . Probably just bro lore but I’ve seen where the target hormone was described as winny with less joint pain and much easier on the lipids. Who knows if that is true though… some of these compounds carry that lore though because they are so rare …. Injectable stenbolone is another that comes to mind
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I think I ran the cel brand furaza back in the day. i remember it being similar to epiandro. It was something I'd say belongs in a stack. Not solo unless you run it high
 
Smont said:
I think I ran the cel brand furaza back in the day. i remember it being similar to epiandro. It was something I'd say belongs in a stack. Not solo unless you run it high
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Yeah .... I never ran Furaza back in the day, because it didn't sound like it packed much of a punch (and there were so many things that did, back then).
 
lanky said:
i took oxyguno the month it came out, bought it from dps nutrition along with hemoguno(epistane) and furaguno a 17b thp ether furazabol. oxyguno was 11 keto clostebol. they were blue oblong tablets, has a slight bitter taste when you would chew them. the bottle came with in a nice paper box with a thin paper pamphlet inside from what i can remember, you had to dose it pretty high. gave me a headache as do all 11hsd inhibitors. on paper it was supposed to be very anabolic but acted more as a anti glucocorticoid from the results i got from it looking back in retrospect
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Man I used to love furaza!! Ran it with Epistane and again with EQ-PLex by CEL and was ripped to shreds!! I miss those days! I literally had almost 100 bottles of different PH's- especially when they were dumping them for $10 at the end!
 
Tunaking14 said:
Man I used to love furaza!! Ran it with Epistane and again with EQ-PLex by CEL and was ripped to shreds!! I miss those days! I literally had almost 100 bottles of different PH's- especially when they were dumping them for $10 at the end!
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Agreed. There at the end they were almost paying you to take them :ROFLMAO:
 
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