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5 Weeks On And Have Dead D**k

JoeBrooklyn said:
That was very informative thank you.
About 2 weeks ago, before my last pin I was going to do HCG or the proper name GHRH; but someone said it's too late in the cycle so I should just blast the whole 5000IUs, so I did, then the next I did 250IUs for 5 days 1,000IUs for 5 days. I was also going to start Clomid yesterday but was told to wait 2 weeks after my last pin. Then my doctor said I should come off test slowly. My last bloods 7 days ago should me at >1600. He said and another guy on AM said take 1/2cc-1cc today and then again next Friday. I've also stopped AI two days ago since a blood test on Monday revealed my estrogen was at 12. I also started to taper off Proviron to 25mg; but am still on Caber, since last week. My Prolaction was 9 last Friday's bloods. And ofcourse still taking Unleashed.
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Well, I never have gradually come off test. I do however, recommend gradually dropping various compounds til you get down to test only. Then drop test and wait for appropriate amount of time for test to clear enough to start PCT.

Generally speaking, what will happen when you clear test is is will "gradually" come down aver the course of 3-4 weeks. Depends on how high your dose was during cycle. A 300mg/week cycle for 10 weeks will not take near as long to fully clear as a 600mg/week cycle for 10 weeks. Understanding the suspension in which your testosterone sits in is crucial to this point.

Test - E ~ 10 - 10.5 day half-life
Test - C ~ 12 day half-life
Test - P ~ 3-4 day half-life

Test C, for instance. Let's say you have 800mg of active testosterone in your blood when you stop pinning. After 12 days, you'd have roughly 400mg of active test. After another 12 days, you'd have around 200mg..and so on and so forth. Get it?

The Cypionate suspension forces testosterone to clear very slowly. Due to it's esther, it cannot surge into your blood and it can't vamp out quickly either. Just look at EQ for instance, which has a 16 days half-life. It takes MONTHS to clear the EQ from your system. This is why doctors use Cypionate as their drug of choice. Less potent and less likely to cause hormonal swings.

What you want to do is let the test get low enough that your testicles will actually respond to PCT ancillaries like Clomid, DAA and Toco-8. Otherwise, you risk wasting PCT for nothing because as long as your serum T levels are sky high, your testicles will not see a need to produce more.

You need to look at your HPTA as a manufacturing environment. It takes forever to get a mill up and running at full speed from a dead standstill. However, the goal for a manufacturing supervisor is to never have "downtime" and to always be producing, even if at slower speeds with less output. Likewise, we try to accomplish the same thing with our HPTA by using a GnRH like hCG on cycle - to prevent total shutdown or "downtime", if you will. It is much easier to speed up an already active system rather than to kickstart a system that was previously shutdown. It takes much more time and power to get things going rather than to keep it going.

This translation is also congruent to basic physics as well. It takes more energy (and often, time) to get an object that is stationary to move again rather than to speed up and already moving object. You have less friction to deal with...

Does this help?
 
fueledpassion said:
Well, I never have gradually come off test. I do however, recommend gradually dropping various compounds til you get down to test only. Then drop test and wait for appropriate amount of time for test to clear enough to start PCT.

Generally speaking, what will happen when you clear test is is will "gradually" come down aver the course of 3-4 weeks. Depends on how high your dose was during cycle. A 300mg/week cycle for 10 weeks will not take near as long to fully clear as a 600mg/week cycle for 10 weeks. Understanding the suspension in which your testosterone sits in is crucial to this point.

Test - E ~ 10 - 10.5 day half-life
Test - C ~ 12 day half-life
Test - P ~ 3-4 day half-life

Test C, for instance. Let's say you have 800mg of active testosterone in your blood when you stop pinning. After 12 days, you'd have roughly 400mg of active test. After another 12 days, you'd have around 200mg..and so on and so forth. Get it?

The Cypionate suspension forces testosterone to clear very slowly. Due to it's esther, it cannot surge into your blood and it can't vamp out quickly either. Just look at EQ for instance, which has a 16 days half-life. It takes MONTHS to clear the EQ from your system. This is why doctors use Cypionate as their drug of choice. Less potent and less likely to cause hormonal swings.

What you want to do is let the test get low enough that your testicles will actually respond to PCT ancillaries like Clomid, DAA and Toco-8. Otherwise, you risk wasting PCT for nothing because as long as your serum T levels are sky high, your testicles will not see a need to produce more.

You need to look at your HPTA as a manufacturing environment. It takes forever to get a mill up and running at full speed from a dead standstill. However, the goal for a manufacturing supervisor is to never have "downtime" and to always be producing, even if at slower speeds with less output. Likewise, we try to accomplish the same thing with our HPTA by using a GnRH like hCG on cycle - to prevent total shutdown or "downtime", if you will. It is much easier to speed up an already active system rather than to kickstart a system that was previously shutdown. It takes much more time and power to get things going rather than to keep it going.

This translation is also congruent to basic physics as well. It takes more energy (and often, time) to get an object that is stationary to move again rather than to speed up and already moving object. You have less friction to deal with...

Does this help?
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Yes it does. So was all the HCG I took wasted? Because since I was on 1,000mg of Test E and was on 600mg of Deca up until 3 weeks ago, and my levels were >1600, by Sunday, assuming my levels were 1600, they should be at about 800mg if I dont pin again the 1/2cc-1cc of 250mg of Test E. So by next Sunday they should be down to 400 if I dont pin the 1/2cc-1cc. So the question for me is, is 800 level test low enough to start PCT? I'm going to guess no and maybe I should start Clomid on the 21st by that time my levels should be between 800 and 400.
 
JoeBrooklyn said:
Yes it does. So was all the HCG I took wasted? Because since I was on 1,000mg of Test E and was on 600mg of Deca up until 3 weeks ago, and my levels were >1600, by Sunday, assuming my levels were 1600, they should be at about 800mg if I dont pin again the 1/2cc-1cc of 250mg of Test E. So by next Sunday they should be down to 400 if I dont pin the 1/2cc-1cc. So the question for me is, is 800 level test low enough to start PCT? I'm going to guess no and maybe I should start Clomid on the 21st by that time my levels should be between 800 and 400.
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Wait, wait. The number I threw out there was an example. There is no way to know how many mg's are in your system. All you can know is that whatever you have now, in 12 days, will be cut in half. Usually 14-21 days is a suitable amount of time to wait before starting PCT on Test-E & C.
 
fueledpassion said:
Wait, wait. The number I threw out there was an example. There is no way to know how many mg's are in your system. All you can know is that whatever you have now, in 12 days, will be cut in half. Usually 14-21 days is a suitable amount of time to wait before starting PCT on Test-E & C.
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Right, and I know as of last Friday I had over 1600. So this Sunday I should have 800, no?
 
JoeBrooklyn said:
Well, I had very high estrogen about 3 weeks ago at 229. Prior to taking that exam I was on 1,000mg of Test E and 600 mg of Deca per week with Novla as my AI for 5 weeks. Then once my penis stopped working I bought Erase Pro and was using it for 9 days before the exam and was using Fomeron for 3 days. Then the results came back at 229.
Then, 3 days before my second exam I started Letro. I had been using Fomeron for 12 days and Letro for 3 and Prolactorne for 12 days before my second exam. My results for the bloods came back for Total Testosterone at >1,500, Prolactin at 18 and LH .1. The Estrogen levels are still not back yet so I really dont know; but throughout this period, from the time I started using Erase Pro to Letro, I have never felt 100%. There were periods where I felt better; but now it seems like it's getting worse. I began using Caber again 2 days ago.
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Have you looked into prolactin? Your levels are on the high end I believe my doctor said high normal range ends at 14. High prolactin with destroy your libido.

I react to steroids the same way, I have no libido no matter how much test is pumping thru me. I just stopped my cycle because I d**k would not work at all. It started to affect my relationship.
 
technique88 said:
Have you looked into prolactin? Your levels are on the high end I believe my doctor said high normal range ends at 14. High prolactin with destroy your libido.

I react to steroids the same way, I have no libido no matter how much test is pumping thru me. I just stopped my cycle because I d**k would not work at all. It started to affect my relationship.
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Yes, as of my last blood last Friday my prolactin was 9.
 
JoeBrooklyn said:
So your saying that since HCG IS in fact LH and does the same thing that LH does, it is in fact making my body produce it's own test again?
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Yes,but since it is practically LH,it supresses LH production.
That`s when,after cycle,clomid comes into play.
 
Ok, im on my way to SA. I havent done any AI SInce Wed. But my libido is down. It was up Sunday when i was off Letro for 3 days. Then I did Fomeron for two days.
 
JoeBrooklyn said:
I doubt it, this girl could not have been created better. She was jet black, juicy vagina with a big clit. If anything I should've busted a nut too fast.
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haha I love this thread bro, man I missed AM...

I didn't read all the way did you get the issue dealt with?

In my single days I might do a half- cialis or v-dog with new strange but being in a relationship it's less pressure, I guess. Sounds like these guys are steering you in the right direction though.
 
Im back, with the help of viagra my equipment worked but i didnt have the umph i usually have. I felt my estrogen levels were going up so i began to take 1/2 letro on tuesday then again on wed an then a whole pill on thursday.
In any event, i begin clomid today.
 
Yeah...i think it's safe to say we're dying to hear the details!
 
iparatroop said:
Welcome back fool. Sounds like it went at least a little better than you were anticipating.
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Yes, it did. Like I said, all my equipment worked but I didnt have the hunger I usually have. Part of it may be that I was so tired, the flight is 15 hours and there is a 7 hour time difference. She wanted to screw, and we did and after that I wanted to pass out, and she wanted to go out. She was pissed because I wanted to sleep after I screwed her and I wouldnt mind screwing her more; but I didnt want to go out.
On top of all that her vagina is so friggin tight it was a struggle to get it in, she didnt seem like she enjoyed it, I know I must sound like a bitch right now complaining about tight vagina but really, sometimes you just want to slip it in and go to town. I cant do that with her. So goes the saying: 'Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it."
Anyway, we went to the Home Affairs to get the legal marriage but the paperwork was not in order but I have to say I was more scared to do that then when I went to the Gulf War. In fact, I d rather go back to the 1991 Gulf War then to get married again. I feel horrible saying this but I'm looking for an exit strategy.
As for my estrogen, i felt like it was creeping up again so I took a 1/2 letro on tuesday and another 1/2 on wed and then 1 full one on thursday. I dont know if I should continue. I started Clomid today and Forged PCT.
 
If you're not ready to get married again, don't. It's really that simple. You'll know when you're ready again and there will be no doubt.
 
JoeBrooklyn said:
But what do I tell her? She'll be heart broken.
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Tell her the plane broke and the US closed its borders.
I don't know man, I'd try to have her get an extended stay here and feel out how the two of you work together on a daily basis. A probationary period of sorts. Let her know that's what you want to try prior to marriage. On the flip side, broken hearts heal stronger in the long run.
 
iparatroop said:
Tell her the plane broke and the US closed its borders.
I don't know man, I'd try to have her get an extended stay here and feel out how the two of you work together on a daily basis. A probationary period of sorts. Let her know that's what you want to try prior to marriage. On the flip side, broken hearts heal stronger in the long run.
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We have tried to get her VISAs twice, both rejected. We have now put in for a Fiance VISA and are still waiting.
 
JoeBrooklyn said:
But what do I tell her? She'll be heart broken.
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Making this decision, you have to know that to give her a heart break now is to save her from a much greater heart break later. You don't want to get married, have kids, get settled, share accounts, become altogether comfortable with that individual and then break it off. Because if your attitude about her is like this now, you'll have a real challlenge for yourself later.

If you are looking for an exit strategy - here is one. Be a man. Have some balls. Know that it's best for both of you in the long run.

There are ways to avoid pain like this altogether, but the technique must be incorporated at the inception of the relationship. You don't have that luxury my man. Sorry to hear this. I can only imagine.
 
fueledpassion said:
Making this decision, you have to know that to give her a heart break now is to save her from a much greater heart break later. You don't want to get married, have kids, get settled, share accounts, become altogether comfortable with that individual and then break it off. Because if your attitude about her is like this now, you'll have a real challlenge for yourself later.

If you are looking for an exit strategy - here is one. Be a man. Have some balls. Know that it's best for both of you in the long run.

There are ways to avoid pain like this altogether, but the technique must be incorporated at the inception of the relationship. You don't have that luxury my man. Sorry to hear this. I can only imagine.
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Ok, I will have to now muster the strength and words. This really sucks. Keep in mind, it's not that I think she's a bad person or I'm not attracted to her, it's just the whole idea of getting married again has the same effect on me as when I repelled from a helicopter the first time and the second and the, you know what I mean.
 
JoeBrooklyn said:
Ok, I will have to now muster the strength and words. This really sucks. Keep in mind, it's not that I think she's a bad person or I'm not attracted to her, it's just the whole idea of getting married again has the same effect on me as when I repelled from a helicopter the first time and the second and the, you know what I mean.
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Well now, hang on.

It is a natural reaction (especially in men) to fear commitment. Heck I am having the coldsweats over the thought of committing to a new church, lol. People are naturally selfish. The idea of committing to something or someone unknown is scarey and often repels the common man, lol. No risk = no reward. This is business law. It also applies to other various things in life, too.

I am certain this community is the best choice for me yet I still fear this notion of being committed. I wont get into psychology and theology, lol, but I do think there are inherent issues that must be delt with on the inside in order to bravely and boldly commit to something or someone.

I was also a bit fearful to commit to my wife just 5 months ago yet at the same time I was 100% sure and I still am 100% sure that she is the best fit for me. To make things extra clear, you have to ask yourself the right question.

Too many men ask the wrong one --> like: "Is she the right woman for me? Is she attractive enough? Is she respectful enough? Is the sex good and often? etc etc. Don't get me wrong, those things are important but dont fool yourself into thinking that these are the things you will concern yourself with 30 years from now. These attributes of a relationship come and go, and often!

A good starting point is to ask yourself this question: "Am I ready to commit to someone (regardless of who) for the rest of my life?" Do you see how this steers your focus away from your potential spouse and toward yourself? You need to validate or nullify your character when considering marriage. Ask things like, "Do I value commitment more than passion?" Do I value commitment more than results? Do I have a character consistent with trustworthiness and gentleness? People always look at marriage as a test of how well their spouse does at being a spouse. The reality is, marriage is a test of your character - that's all.

Seriously man. There's a lot to think about before just backing out or moving forward.
 
fueledpassion said:
Well now, hang on.

It is a natural reaction (especially in men) to fear commitment. Heck I am having the coldsweats over the thought of committing to a new church, lol. People are naturally selfish. The idea of committing to something or someone unknown is scarey and often repels the common man, lol. No risk = no reward. This is business law. It also applies to other various things in life, too.

I am certain this community is the best choice for me yet I still fear this notion of being committed. I wont get into psychology and theology, lol, but I do think there are inherent issues that must be delt with on the inside in order to bravely and boldly commit to something or someone.

I was also a bit fearful to commit to my wife just 5 months ago yet at the same time I was 100% sure and I still am 100% sure that she is the best fit for me. To make things extra clear, you have to ask yourself the right question.

Too many men ask the wrong one --> like: "Is she the right woman for me? Is she attractive enough? Is she respectful enough? Is the sex good and often? etc etc. Don't get me wrong, those things are important but dont fool yourself into thinking that these are the things you will concern yourself with 30 years from now. These attributes of a relationship come and go, and often!

A good starting point is to ask yourself this question: "Am I ready to commit to someone (regardless of who) for the rest of my life?" Do you see how this steers your focus away from your potential spouse and toward yourself? You need to validate or nullify your character when considering marriage. Ask things like, "Do I value commitment more than passion?" Do I value commitment more than results? Do I have a character consistent with trustworthiness and gentleness? People always look at marriage as a test of how well their spouse does at being a spouse. The reality is, marriage is a test of your character - that's all.

Seriously man. There's a lot to think about before just backing out or moving forward.
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Thank you for the advice. The onlything about commitment with me is that I never had a problem with it when I was younger. Only now I have grown to fear it, or since my divorce. I think the answers to most of the questions I should ask myself is no, at least not at this time. I may change my mind; or I may not. I think what I need to do is just postpone the marriage. The only thing that sucks is that the only time she sees me is when I go to see her, she can't get a VISA. She is buying a new house and getting it refurbished and that will take a month. I will wait until after that to tell her I want to postpone.
In the meantime, the Thai girl broke up with me. She felt that I didnt text her enough when I was away. In a way it's good because it saved me having to break up with her; but now I miss her. But I think it's good since it will help me clear my head as to what I should do next.
I've been very sad since I have come back from South Africa. Also just found out that on the 4th we will find out if my company will be laying people off. Great time to look for a job in this Obama economy, 7.8% published unemployment rate and 15% REAL unemployment if you count those who have given up looking.
I think I learned a valuable lesson from all of this and that's 1-try to date only people near you and/or those that can see you as hard as that may be for me and 2-Be faithful, never cheat.
 
Killler said:
Wtf....

What kind of mystical elixir of life is keeping this crazy thread alive!?!
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LOL!! LMAO!!
I think it's the title. The fear of dead d**k is a fear of any man; but then once you go in the thread and you see the topic ranges from sexual dysfunction to sexual encounters, to AAS to PCT to hormone imbalances and what to do to politics to personal relationship problems it attracts alot of opinions and people. That's my guess.
 
JoeBrooklyn said:
LOL!! LMAO!!
I think it's the title. The fear of dead d**k is a fear of any man; but then once you go in the thread and you see the topic ranges from sexual dysfunction to sexual encounters, to AAS to PCT to hormone imbalances and what to do to politics to personal relationship problems it attracts alot of opinions and people. That's my guess.
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This is without a doubt the most interesting and entertaining thread I have followed in years. Good luck figuring things out, Joe. Don't let fear itself make you miss out on a great thing. If there are issues that you see that cannot be resolved, that is one thing; but don't give up something good just because of fear. Letting fear make a decission for us only leads to regret. Making a decission based on real evidence, good logic, and possitive emotion, even if you would come to the same conclussion as fear would lead you to, will always feel better because you controlled the decission and did not let fear control you. Take some time to seriously get some good thinking done on the subject and on yourself; postponing things in order to do this is resonable. You may want to include her in talking about your fear/hesitancy. If she would be understanding enough to help you through this patch of doubt, whatever the conclussion may be, she would be a real keeper if you decide to move forward with marriage. But all this is just my opinion/advice; take it for what it is worth. I wish you luck either way you go.

fueledpassion's advice above is stellar.
 
Don't make any decision either way until you're 6 months off of a cycle and your emotions are in check. You've out some many compounds into your body the last couple months or whatever it is I would suggest letting everything clear, return to homeostasis and then make a clear and unemotional decision. If it was meant to be then 6 moths won't make a difference in the long run bro.
 
hardwork25 said:
Don't make any decision either way until you're 6 months off of a cycle and your emotions are in check. You've out some many compounds into your body the last couple months or whatever it is I would suggest letting everything clear, return to homeostasis and then make a clear and unemotional decision. If it was meant to be then 6 moths won't make a difference in the long run bro.
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Jesus guys I apologize for the poor spelling and grammar. I feel like a chick wrote that.

*put
* so many
 
Tomorrow will be the beginning of week 3 of PCT. It consists of 2 Forged PCT per day (one in the morning and one at night), 100/mg of Clomid week 1 per day and 50mg per day for the next two weeks, 2 Unleashed in the morning and two at night, 3 Prolactrone per day and beginning in weeks 2 DAA.
So far, although I wake up with erections, my libido seems shot.
 
JoeBrooklyn said:
Tomorrow will be the beginning of week 3 of PCT. It consists of 2 Forged PCT per day (one in the morning and one at night), 100/mg of Clomid week 1 per day and 50mg per day for the next two weeks, 2 Unleashed in the morning and two at night, 3 Prolactrone per day and beginning in weeks 2 DAA.
So far, although I wake up with erections, my libido seems shot.
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This has always been my problem after cycle - functionality is there, desire is not.
 
fueledpassion said:
This has always been my problem after cycle - functionality is there, desire is not.
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So what do you do? I'm beginning to think in my case it may be estrogen too low. I crushed estrogen with letro, so it may already be low before PCT and now Clomid will make it lower.
 
JoeBrooklyn said:
So what do you do? I'm beginning to think in my case it may be estrogen too low. I crushed estrogen with letro, so it may already be low before PCT and now Clomid will make it lower.
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Joe, if functionality is there and desire is not, your body just may need more time to naturally start producing test again. You suppressed its ability to do so for a while, it will take a bit to reboot.
 
iparatroop said:
Joe, if functionality is there and desire is not, your body just may need more time to naturally start producing test again. You suppressed its ability to do so for a while, it will take a bit to reboot.
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Well functionality is at best shotty. Some days I'm fine others I'm not but everyday no desire.
 
See if there is a polyclinic near you. If it's the same as the polyclinic near me, they have great endos and quick results.
 
iparatroop said:
See if there is a polyclinic near you. If it's the same as the polyclinic near me, they have great endos and quick results.
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I have an appointment with the doctor who did my bloods fast the last time tomorrow. He also promised me to out me on hcg and the insurnace company will pay for it. But should I continue with Clomid?
 
JoeBrooklyn said:
I have an appointment with the doctor who did my bloods fast the last time tomorrow. He also promised me to out me on hcg and the insurnace company will pay for it. But should I continue with Clomid?
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Until I got the bloods back, I'd stay on Clomid. Personally, I go thru Privatmdlabs.com to get my bloods. Cheap and effective. All I need is the female hormone panel which covers the basics like LH, FSH and total T and estradiol. Plus is has a CBC panel, too.

Next time around for me, I'm staying on Clomid until my levels reach 600+, from there I will taper gradually in hopes that my own system can keep up. Clomid won't hold your estro back that much really. It has always done a good job of giving me a higher libido.
 
Clomid won't lower your estrogen, if anything since I didn't see an AI in your arsenal it will probably increase along with your test via the aromataze enzyme.
 
Lukef2000 said:
Clomid won't lower your estrogen, if anything since I didn't see an AI in your arsenal it will probably increase along with your test via the aromataze enzyme.
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Right, in fact, I believe its a synthetic estrogen anyways. I always couple it with an AI and that has always worked very well for me in PCT. In fact, thats usually all my PCT consists of. Clomid + AI.
 
JoeBrooklyn said:
Why AI with PCT?
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Not a high dose AI. But I use an AI to control the estrogen. A weak AI at a weak dose compliments Clomid. Helps keep me on the dry side too.

Not everyone agrees with this. It's just a peace of mind for me really. Formestane works well in this manner. Arimidex does too at .5mg EOD.
 
Lukef2000 said:
To restore your HPTA function. Get your natty testosterone production back up to pre cycle levels.
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Tommorrow I will begin week 4 of PCT. I have been on Forged PCT, Clomid, Unleashed, Prolactrone and DAA. What else do I have to do? Today was my last clomid dosage.
 
Today is the beginning of week 5 since the end of my cycle and it is now the end of my PCT. Luckily, my libido is coming back. I'm still taking Unleashed, Prolactrone and DAA.
That Thai girl of mine is something else. I have fallen in love.
 
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