5-HMF

Rockslide

Member
@sns8778

Steve (or anyone else),

Have you ever heard of this.. It shifts hemoglobin oxygen curve to the right , unloading o2 at the tissues and increasing aerobic capacity. I’m going to post a study, and I found some additional studies as well. Looks like they combine it with Alpha -KG

It looks like it’s just a food product /sugar alcohol and I can’t find anything regarding it being on a watch list so I assume it is compliant since it seems like it’s naturally occurring /food product .


Google Scholar

scholar.google.com scholar.google.com
 
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Quick google search shows it might not be so great
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I’m not going to make a claim one way or another that it’s safe but it’s naturally occurring in honey in your pantry right now .

If you Google 5-HMF safety you will find a stuff about toxicity being only with high doses and theoretical and stuff about them giving mice HUGE doses and not reporting carcinogenic effects.

Almost everything has detrimental effects at the right dose . Oral L Carnitine very well may cause accelerate atherosclerosis (which is why I’m a fan of TD/IM). Half the losartan , a top 5 prescribed BP med was contaminated with carcinogenic during manufacturing for years. List goes on and on.

Again, I’m not claiming it’s definitely safe, I will say their are plenty of things on the market with questionable safety profiles , and plenty on the market with non transparent labeling.



To be honest I’m looking for something to replace cardarine . I know nothing probably will . I didn’t get that much out of peak o2. I would be interested in ITPP but it’s not allowed to be sold as a supplement and pretty much impossible to find as a RC even now . Cardarine is so effective for cardio, and fixes my lipids better than any medication on the market but I’m not comfortable with its safety profile at all .
 
Subbed, ive looked at this stuff a little but i really dont know if anything i got is worthy of a mention. Ive seen yhe sides too and im wondering if the poison is in the dosage or if those are just the nutty slim possibility sides, like vitamin c causing anal leakage in 60 year old females with no gallbladder, so anal leakage is a possible side for vitamin c lol.

As far as doses, and these are just the numbers ive randomly come across and there vastly different. Some said 5mg a day, some 5-15mg, and one said 30-150mg. It sounds like this stuff is made in the reduction process of sugars so i think that means if you took sugar and made it into simple syrup it would make 5-hmf in the process. If thats true then we intake small amounts of this stuff all the time one way or another. Now how much that is vs. How much you need for the effects your looking for, no clue.
 
On a side note, because your looking for a carderine replacement. If you go to vigerous Steve YouTube, he has a 6 part deep dive on endurance supplements. Theres a ton of stuff many ppl have probably never heard of and its worth checking out even if just to see the lists. At least for that aspect of carderine. berberine will cover a couple bases too for the gda and cholesterol
 
Rockslide said:
@sns8778

Steve (or anyone else),

Have you ever heard of this.. It shifts hemoglobin oxygen curve to the right , unloading o2 at the tissues and increasing aerobic capacity. I’m going to post a study, and I found some additional studies as well. Looks like they combine it with Alpha -KG

It looks like it’s just a food product /sugar alcohol and I can’t find anything regarding it being on a watch list so I assume it is compliant since it seems like it’s naturally occurring /food product .


Google Scholar

scholar.google.com scholar.google.com
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There's been a couple studies to show potential benefits - but a lot of information on it showing potential risks as well. I think more research is needed to really know the pro's vs. con's.

It's been a long time since I've looked into this and I'm going off memory, so I may not be 100% on all of this, or there may be new research that I haven't seen bc I haven't followed it. But the reason I haven't followed it is that I read enough when I looked into it in the past that I wouldn't be comfortable taking it unless there was an abundance of data showing it was safe, and I'm not comfortable selling anything that I would not take myself due to safety issues.

If I remember correctly, a big part of the confusion/controversy on this is that its not as simple as determining a safe dosage because the rate of clearance from the body can depend on several factors - so even IF they determined a safe dosage, the dosage that may be safe for one person may not be for the next.

I don't think that it could be legally sold as a supplement because there are or were drug trials on 5-MHF under the drug name Aes-103 for sickle cell.
 
sns8778 said:
There's been a couple studies to show potential benefits - but a lot of information on it showing potential risks as well. I think more research is needed to really know the pro's vs. con's.

It's been a long time since I've looked into this and I'm going off memory, so I may not be 100% on all of this, or there may be new research that I haven't seen bc I haven't followed it. But the reason I haven't followed it is that I read enough when I looked into it in the past that I wouldn't be comfortable taking it unless there was an abundance of data showing it was safe, and I'm not comfortable selling anything that I would not take myself due to safety issues.

If I remember correctly, a big part of the confusion/controversy on this is that its not as simple as determining a safe dosage because the rate of clearance from the body can depend on several factors - so even IF they determined a safe dosage, the dosage that may be safe for one person may not be for the next.

I don't think that it could be legally sold as a supplement because there are or were drug trials on 5-MHF under the drug name Aes-103 for sickle cell.
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I did see a study on it preventing sickling so that would make sense and would make sense on why nobody’s brought to market. Seems like someone would have brought it (safety be damnned) if it could have been which is why I was asking .

Interesting I didn’t realize that DSHEA gets thrown out the window on a known food product if it’s used as a drug. I’m guessing that Niacin holds up because Niaspan is a controlled release , and Vasepa holds up because they extract a more specific part of the fish oil ?
 
Rockslide said:
I did see a study on it preventing sickling so that would make sense and would make sense on why nobody’s brought to market. Seems like someone would have brought it (safety be damnned) if it could have been which is why I was asking .

Interesting I didn’t realize that DSHEA gets thrown out the window on a known food product if it’s used as a drug. I’m guessing that Niacin holds up because Niaspan is a controlled release , and Vasepa holds up because they extract a more specific part of the fish oil ?
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DSHEA is a lot more complex than some people think that it is. It's sometimes presented in simple summary form as an ingredient being naturally occurring BUT there is a lot more to it than that. They could technically require an NDI (new dietary ingredient) notification of anything not sold as a supplement prior to DSHEA and there are many exceptions in DSHEA, including 2 that would apply here - about the FDA must review and evaluate the safety of dietary supplements if questions are raised about their safety and another one about if an item is approved as a new drug.

Niacin wouldn't be applicable because it is a vitamin and was sold long before DSHEA.
Fish Oil wouldn't be affected by Vasepa because it was already widely sold and Vasepa uses only one isolated constituent.

Basically, with this having been in drug trials before ever being sold as a supplement, it would be impossible to make an argument that it wasn't a drug. Some people think its as simple as saying - oh, but its natural - but so are a lot of things that are illegal.
 
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Sns has a cardarine-like (my words, not his, it's not cardarine-like nor a drug, just has similar effects) product soon.

Millennium sport cordygen 5 or ultra is definitely something to try!
 
I’m looking forward to trying it. I still have some cardarine but I’m going to save it and use it very sparingly . Basically pre cardio several times a week when trying to push through a running plateau or near the end of a training cycle if I’m getting ready to go on a high altitude hunting trip where I’m going to be carrying a 70 pound pack at 12,000 feet altitude up and down steep hills for days. Stuff is magic… just don’t trust it . As good as it is no way it would have been abandoned if they didn’t have real concerns , it would potentially be one of the most profitable meds in the history of pharmaceuticals
 
Rockslide said:
I’m looking forward to trying it. I still have some cardarine but I’m going to save it and use it very sparingly . Basically pre cardio several times a week when trying to push through a running plateau or near the end of a training cycle if I’m getting ready to go on a high altitude hunting trip where I’m going to be carrying a 70 pound pack at 12,000 feet altitude up and down steep hills for days. Stuff is magic… just don’t trust it . As good as it is no way it would have been abandoned if they didn’t have real concerns , it would potentially be one of the most profitable meds in the history of pharmaceuticals
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How exactly is eliminating the need for treatment of 5-6 diseases with one single drug profitable? It’s not in real life
 
WickedWarlock said:
How exactly is eliminating the need for treatment of 5-6 diseases with one single drug profitable? It’s not in real life
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The amount they would charge and sell would be worth it.

The big pharma conspiracy isn’t quite what people think it is.

The same could be said for ozempic, they are getting rich off it , just look at their stock .

Look at it this way… maybe the most powerful anti athrogenic readily available drug right now is crestor. They aren’t making any money on crestor anymore , it’s a few dollars for a month supply . Very little that hits the market is that much better than stuff that’s been around for 20-30 years and is dirt cheap, generic , and they aren’t making a profit on it
 
Rockslide said:
The amount they would charge and sell would be worth it.

The big pharma conspiracy isn’t quite what people think it is.

The same could be said for ozempic, they are getting rich off it , just look at their stock .

Look at it this way… maybe the most powerful anti athrogenic readily available drug right now is crestor. They aren’t making any money on crestor anymore , it’s a few dollars for a month supply . Very little that hits the market is that much better than stuff that’s been around for 20-30 years and is dirt cheap, generic , and they aren’t making a profit on it
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Ozempic isn’t a good comparison. It’s a diabetic drug that was repurposed to obesity thus increasing profits on an already existing drug.

Companies need to look at affordability and practicality. A customer for life keeping 6 drug streams alive vs 1 drug that might cure things. I mean. Sure charge a bundle but someone might not need to take it forever and you eventually lose customers.

If there was a muscle building drug that made you gain 40lbs of muscle and lose fat, people would take that get the benefits and stop because they wouldn’t need it anymore. Or…have income streams from various steroids and the cycles they have to run.

Not saying it does or doesn’t cause cancer (cardarine) but I have seen enough to be pretty skeptical about the whole situation.

TLDR: the big pharma conspiracy is EXACTLY what people make it out to be.
 
Disagree

They aren’t making any money treating coronary artery disease as it is- gsk isn’t making money from cardiologists writing generic creator and plavix made in India . The stent companies are making money , so I guess if we want to stretch it to there and say completely different cardiacstent companies paid GSK ( who I don’t think makes stents) to not release a drug that had the potential to be one of the most profitable drugs in the history of pharmaceuticals … I guess that can be the argument . I don’t buy it.

People say that about cancer drugs all the time (they aren’t interested in funding a cure). In comparison to coronary disease , cancer would be a tiny share of the market in comparison.

If you were really on GSK board or CEO as a 50 something dude 10-15 years from retirement would you really say “ don’t release the drug that I can cash out and retire on with a damn near 10 figure check , so we can keep selling the same non cutting edge stuff that we are fighting with Pfizer for with a relatively flat stock” . I doubt it. You’d bring cardarine to the market and cash out.

I know I’m not going to change your mind , and I agree that industry is riddled with greed, but greed is exactly why I think they would have released it.

As for the colon thing. Yeah they gave rats huge mg/kg doses …. Everyone argues that… but rats process it differently . I think in humans it’s like equivalent to 100 mg. That’s like only 3-5 times what some guys are running , no drug would be approved with that limited a profile .

Honestly the pancreatic adenoma thing which is a more recent study bothers me more though. Colon polyps can be removed with colonoscopies. Pancreatic cancer is often never diagnosed until stage 4, really cant be screened for , and doesn’t really have good outcomes even if caught in early stage

Just my 2 cents- I know you feel different , intellectual debate with civil discussion is what makes AM great .
 
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