5-DHEA queries

[Riptor]

Hi guys,

I was trying to find out more about 5-DHEA ( which is a derivative of DHEA) to make an informed decision on potential risks such as hair loss or estrogenic side effects. I don’t particularly want to take 5-DHEA but it’s included within the formula list for Andro Shred 2.0 at a max dose of 100mg per day. Due to excellent reviews of the original Andro Shred (without 5-DHEA) on this forum I feel torn to wanting to use this product yet cautious about potential side effects.

The only details I can find are that 5-DHEA converts to testosterone at a rate of about 1%, however it has high conversion to 5-androstenediol, where it gets its mild androgenic and anabolic effects, however it also has ‘moderate’ estrogenic side effects.

To that regard, has anybody used 5-DHEA and within a transdermal product and noticed any issues regarding hair shedding or bloating, low libedo etc?

Much appreciate your feedback !!

 

[Ape McGrapes]

DHEA and 5-DHEA are the same thing AFAIK. Using the later is probably just a marketing ploy.

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

It's been a long time since 5 andro went away, but I would steer clr of 5 andros. it isn't moderate with its conversion to estrogen. I seem to recall people getting major gyno from these DHEA analogues.

 

[Smont]

Hi guys,

I was trying to find out more about 5-DHEA ( which is a derivative of DHEA) to make an informed decision on potential risks such as hair loss or estrogenic side effects. I don’t particularly want to take 5-DHEA but it’s included within the formula list for Andro Shred 2.0 at a max dose of 100mg per day. Due to excellent reviews of the original Andro Shred (without 5-DHEA) on this forum I feel torn to wanting to use this product yet cautious about potential side effects.

The only details I can find are that 5-DHEA converts to testosterone at a rate of about 1%, however it has high conversion to 5-androstenediol, where it gets its mild androgenic and anabolic effects, however it also has ‘moderate’ estrogenic side effects.

To that regard, has anybody used 5-DHEA and within a transdermal product and noticed any issues regarding hair shedding or bloating, low libedo etc?

Much appreciate your feedback !!

5 dhea = regular dhea

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

5-andro=
Androstenediol possesses potent estrogenic activity, similarly to DHEA and 3β-androstanediol.[2] It has approximately 6% and 17% of the affinity of estradiol at the ERα and ERβ, respectively.[3] Although androstenediol has far lower affinity for the ERs compared to the major estrogen estradiol, it circulates at approximately 100-fold higher concentrations, and so is thought may play a significant role as an estrogen in the body.[4]

its like natural Trest as far as estrogen conversion goes.

 

[Stacks1]

It's been a long time since 5 andro went away, but I would steer clr of 5 andros. it isn't moderate with its conversion to estrogen. I seem to recall people getting major gyno from these DHEA analogues.

I would think that would make it pretty different from regular DHEA then. I'm not saying no one has gotten gyno from regular DHEA, however I would say that is very uncommon/ rare... especially if we're comparing it to something like trest.

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

I would think that would make it pretty different from regular DHEA then. I'm not saying no one has gotten gyno from regular DHEA, however I would say that is very uncommon/ rare... especially if we're comparing it to something like trest.

I think you are missing my point? OP suggests that the company is proud of the fact that DHEA could convert to 5a's and I am saying there is a reason it is highly uncommon or rare as you put it... because its a crap andro that gave everyone gyno in the 90s. it should be avoided at all costs, so to me its some shady marketing.

 

[Stacks1]

I think you are missing my point? OP suggests that the company is proud of the fact that DHEA could convert to 5a's and I am saying there is a reason it is highly uncommon or rare as you put it... because its a crap andro that gave everyone gyno in the 90s. it should be avoided at all costs, so to me its some shady marketing.

I think I'm just confused because I don't know much about 5-andro. So would you say 5-andro is essentially similar to 4-andro but with a much worse test to estrogen conversion ratio? I thought it was basically a replacement for 4-andro but clearly not as good since it never seemed to have really kicked off from what I've seen. Or is it just more like regualr DHEA like the posters above said?

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

I am not talking about DHEA or 5DHEA

I think I'm just confused because I don't know much about 5-andro. So would you say 5-andro is essentially similar to 4-andro but with a much worse test to estrogen conversion ratio? I thought it was basically a replacement for 4-andro but clearly not as good since it never seemed to have really kicked off from what I've seen. Or is it just more like regualr DHEA like the posters above said?

Androst-5-ene-3β,17β-diol (Δ5-Androstenediol or Adiol), derived from dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) and convertible into testosterone (T) (for detail, see Fig. Fig.1)1) (1), has been suggested to play a role in the regulation of immune responses (2), obesity (3), and the genesis of estrogen-sensitive carcinomas, such as breast cancer (4, 5). Since 1954 (6), Adiol has been known to have estrogenic activity at physiological concentrations (1, 7). Accordingly, the estrogenic effect of Adiol, which is mediated by the estrogen receptor (ER), has been proposed as an essential female hormone that can partially replace the loss of 17β-estradiol (E2

 

[Stacks1]

I am not talking about DHEA or 5DHEA

Androst-5-ene-3β,17β-diol (Δ5-Androstenediol or Adiol), derived from dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) and convertible into testosterone (T) (for detail, see Fig. Fig.1)1) (1), has been suggested to play a role in the regulation of immune responses (2), obesity (3), and the genesis of estrogen-sensitive carcinomas, such as breast cancer (4, 5). Since 1954 (6), Adiol has been known to have estrogenic activity at physiological concentrations (1, 7). Accordingly, the estrogenic effect of Adiol, which is mediated by the estrogen receptor (ER), has been proposed as an essential female hormone that can partially replace the loss of 17β-estradiol (E2

Ok I'm an idiot. I see now. Is there really that much conversion to 5-androstenediol from 5-DHEA? Basically, would I be problematic at the 100mgs dose? Not that I even have 5-DHEA... just curious I guess.

 

[BCseacow83]

Ok I'm an idiot. I see now. Is there really that much conversion to 5-androstenediol from 5-DHEA? Basically, would I be problematic at the 100mgs dose? Not that I even have 5-DHEA... just curious I guess.

Absolutely NO ONE can actually answer this. The coversions often go back and forth and enzyme levels and what the body wants to do are all a big WHO KNOWS.

Many people use 5-dhea/DHEA successfully without getting gyno. Look at the multiple products offered by sponsors such as Dermacrine, Apex Alchemy Hyperion, XPG DHEA-gel. All of these are popular with ZERO people reporting gyno.

Now that being said TOO MUCH FOR YOU COULD cause issues and I personally would NOT start oral dhea at 100mg right out the gate. 25-50 would be a better starting point.

 

[Stacks1]

Absolutely NO ONE can actually answer this. The coversions often go back and forth and enzyme levels and what the body wants to do are all a big WHO KNOWS.

Many people use 5-dhea/DHEA successfully without getting gyno. Look at the multiple products offered by sponsors such as Dermacrine, Apex Alchemy Hyperion, XPG DHEA-gel. All of these are popular with ZERO people reporting gyno.

Now that being said TOO MUCH FOR YOU COULD cause issues and I personally would NOT start oral dhea at 100mg right out the gate. 25-50 would be a better starting point.

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Yeah I get what you're saying and didn't really expect an actual conversion number. I think more along the lines of whether or not there are reports of people on here using 5-DHEA and getting gyno or had blood work done on it showing significantly elevated estrogen and at what dose that might be.

I've definitely used dermacrine before without any issue. I believe I still have a couple bottles in my stash as well.

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

Yeah I get what you're saying and didn't really expect an actual conversion number. I think more along the lines of whether or not there are reports of people on here using 5-DHEA and getting gyno or had blood work done on it showing significantly elevated estrogen and at what dose that might be.

I've definitely used dermacrine before without any issue. I believe I still have a couple bottles in my stash as well.

again... I wasn't saying you would get gyno from DHEA. I was railing about the stupid marketing to mention 5andro as anything more than estrogen in a bottle was ridiculous.

 

[Stacks1]

again... I wasn't saying you would get gyno from DHEA. I was railing about the stupid marketing to mention 5andro as anything more than estrogen in a bottle was ridiculous.

Yes, I understand that part. My assumption is that it is marketed as 5-DHEA rather than DHEA because they are marketing the 5-andro conversion, which I agree with you, is stupid. That is what caused my confusion though. When I read the OP's post I thought 5-DHEA might be different than DHEA as having a higher conversion to 5-andro rather than regular DHEA. But clearly that is just another part of the marketing ploy and they are the same thing.

 

[Riptor]

Hi Guys,

Thank you all for sharing your feedback with the issue around 5-DHEA. Just for reference I’ve included the product page below for Andro Shred with the explanation given for 5-DHEA below:

https://www.musclegelz.com/products/andro-shred/

To be honest it’s a real bummer that 5-DHEA was also since the original formula (exactly the same minus the 5-DHEA) had some excellent reviews six or seven years back as seen in this log:

Muscle Gelz AndroShred - AnabolicMinds.com

I was lucky enough to be able to log MuscleGelz androShred. Below is a link for a little more info on the product. https://www.musclegelz.com/products/andro-shred/ I'm currently 10 weeks out from my first show of the 2017 season and will be using this at 4 pumps in the morning and 4 pumps in...

anabolicminds.com

There was also some localised fat loss achieved in the lower back region with this product. There were two questions that did stand out for this:
*Would any risk of gyno and/ or hair loss occur likely occur in the short term (I.e 4 to 8 weeks) or would it likely occur after prolonged use of 4-DHEA?
*Would applying the product Andro Shred 2.0) only to lower abs, love handles, lower back and obliques ‘likely’ result in lower side effects from gyno and/or hair loss since there is generally more fat in that area to absorb into?