5 and 2 Diet?

[bell1986]

300 calorie surplus for 5 days (Training days) and 2 days = a serious calorie deficit. Ie 600 calories only that day with cardio added to these days.

Would this maintain muscle mass. Even gain slowly + keep fat almost non existent or lose? I know muscle protein synthesis is only heightened for 48 hours prior to exercise so an excess of calories on these days would replenish any broken down muscle? Then your low calorie days would balance out any fat gain?

I always feel drained running a calorie deficit for an extended period of time but i have done it previous and its manageable and overall worth it. I done a 600 calorie day yesterday and i fasted for 24 hours and just had a 600 calorie meal (All from protein. No carbs. Well except veggies for the micro's) I cycle'd 25 mile yesterday also. I have the exact same planned for today also. I actually dont mind this as hunger for me ia triggered with food ie carbs and insulin going up and down. Just experimenting for a month to see how it affects my body composition. Ie scale weight and also the mirror. I have my training dial'd in perfect and diet over and above these days are also very good.

My maintenance calories are 2800 so i do 3100 for 5 days = 15500 + 2 days x 600 calories = 16700.. Weekly total x 4 weeks = 66800 calories give or take the odd here and thier.

Maintenance for me x 7 days.. 2800 x 7 = 19600 x 4 weeks = 78400.

So this 5 and 2 arrangement would see me in a deficit of 11600 for 1 month which could see a 3 pound (ish) of fat drop and also in a surplus on training days?


Anyone ever done this? I know thier is carb cycling and also zig zag calories which people have tried. I know it sounds complicated but im looking forward to trying it. I know a 600 calorie day is extreme but if im very active on those days and i dont even think about food. A black coffee see's me all ok.

Thanks guys

 

[bell1986]

300 calorie surplus for 5 days (Training days) and 2 days = a serious calorie deficit. Ie 600 calories only that day with cardio added to these days.

Would this maintain muscle mass. Even gain slowly + keep fat almost non existent or lose? I know muscle protein synthesis is only heightened for 48 hours prior to exercise so an excess of calories on these days would replenish any broken down muscle? Then your low calorie days would balance out any fat gain?

I always feel drained running a calorie deficit for an extended period of time but i have done it previous and its manageable and overall worth it. I done a 600 calorie day yesterday and i fasted for 24 hours and just had a 600 calorie meal (All from protein. No carbs. Well except veggies for the micro's) I cycle'd 25 mile yesterday also. I have the exact same planned for today also. I actually dont mind this as hunger for me ia triggered with food ie carbs and insulin going up and down. Just experimenting for a month to see how it affects my body composition. Ie scale weight and also the mirror. I have my training dial'd in perfect and diet over and above these days are also very good.

My maintenance calories are 2800 so i do 3100 for 5 days = 15500 + 2 days x 600 calories = 16700.. Weekly total x 4 weeks = 66800 calories give or take the odd here and thier.

Maintenance for me x 7 days.. 2800 x 7 = 19600 x 4 weeks = 78400.

So this 5 and 2 arrangement would see me in a deficit of 11600 for 1 month which could see a 3 pound (ish) of fat drop and also in a surplus on training days?


Anyone ever done this? I know thier is carb cycling and also zig zag calories which people have tried. I know it sounds complicated but im looking forward to trying it. I know a 600 calorie day is extreme but if im very active on those days and i dont even think about food. A black coffee see's me all ok.

Thanks guys

I have done 2 long bulk and cuts btw. Just thought i would add this in incase think people think noob! Lol got alot of Muscle mass on me and sitting around 14-15% bodyfat at the moment.

Just thought no harm in switching it up and seeing how it affects me.

 

[IronHelix]

Interesting concept - always looking for something new - sub'd for info and follow up!

 

[bell1986]

Interesting concept - always looking for something new - sub'd for info and follow up!

Thanks ? Im only doing it for 4 weeks just to see how i feel/look etc.. What was weird was even the 24 hour fast and no food in me i had a ton more energy? I done that 25 mile cycle with ease. I suppose the insulin spikes cause lethargy when they drop? Only thing i can link it to.

Will keep you posted though ?

 

[jginct]

Also sub'd looking forward to seeing if surplus gets you through the 600 calorie days. I would Hulk Smash everything if I did that right now

 

[IronHelix]

Also sub'd looking forward to seeing if surplus gets you through the 600 calorie days. I would Hulk Smash everything if I did that right now

Haha... Taking Hangry to a whole new level... I get bitchy when I forget my morning eggs at work

 

[bell1986]

Also sub'd looking forward to seeing if surplus gets you through the 600 calorie days. I would Hulk Smash everything if I did that right now

Yes its a low calorie amount lol but im day 2 of the 600 calories and feeling fine. I just keep my mindset focus'd on the next 5 days of extra cal's ?

 

[LeanEngineer]

Yes its a low calorie amount lol but im day 2 of the 600 calories and feeling fine. I just keep my mindset focus'd on the next 5 days of extra cal's ��

That's pretty interesting. I haven't seen anyone else do a diet like that. I don't think I could do 600 cal though haha

 

[bell1986]

That's pretty interesting. I haven't seen anyone else do a diet like that. I don't think I could do 600 cal though haha

Lol just need to fast and then make your 600 cal's worth it ? I made some lean mince lastnight + Veggies and a decent seasoning and some protein custard.. Basic but done the deeds. I could have ate ALOT more but thats where you tell yourself its only for a short spell and i had my food about 30 mins before bed so i went to bed and slept right through. Am on day 2 and currently had 600 cal's in 36 hours and a feel fine. I reckon i could push a 48 hour fast if i set my mind to it. Even trained this morning and was as strong as ever. Just an experiment to cut some fat and see how it affects my composition aswell. I weighed 165 pounds this morning so i will see what i weigh in 4 weeks.

 

[booneman77]

I do sort of the opposite of this... lower cal 6 days and 1 day basically binge eating haha.

Theres no chance of sacrificing muscle in 1-2 days a week of very low cals. The surplus days will def feel good as well. I'm actually considering switching to something like this since I enjoy the high day(s) and I fast for 20+ hrs daily anyways. Having one small meal on 2 days would be an easy transition for me simply becuase I'm usually on the road mon and fri and would be too busy anyways.

Interested to see what you think over the next few weeks.

 

[bell1986]

I do sort of the opposite of this... lower cal 6 days and 1 day basically binge eating haha.

Theres no chance of sacrificing muscle in 1-2 days a week of very low cals. The surplus days will def feel good as well. I'm actually considering switching to something like this since I enjoy the high day(s) and I fast for 20+ hrs daily anyways. Having one small meal on 2 days would be an easy transition for me simply becuase I'm usually on the road mon and fri and would be too busy anyways.

Interested to see what you think over the next few weeks.

Ive done that same sort diet aswell. Like 1800-2000 cals 6 days a week then a binge day of like 5000 - 6000 cals lol it is good and gives your mind a break from dieting. It still let's you lean out slowly i noticed? My weight on the 6th day (Before the binge) was always lower than the previous week so it allows you to drop weight slowly. Also if i was going out for a meal it would be on that evening of the 7th day so it fits your lifestyle also and you can relax and not count macros etc and go all out.

Your body i dont think will break down muscle in a 2 day period. My 600 cal days are all protein based also. I found the most muscle loss (For me anyway) was on an extended cut over a period of 8 weeks+.

You thinking of trying it? I will keep use all posted though. I have before pictures and will post after pictures aswell

 

[booneman77]

Ive done that same sort diet aswell. Like 1800-2000 cals 6 days a week then a binge day of like 5000 - 6000 cals lol it is good and gives your mind a break from dieting. It still let's you lean out slowly i noticed? My weight on the 6th day (Before the binge) was always lower than the previous week so it allows you to drop weight slowly. Also if i was going out for a meal it would be on that evening of the 7th day so it fits your lifestyle also and you can relax and not count macros etc and go all out.

Your body i dont think will break down muscle in a 2 day period. My 600 cal days are all protein based also. I found the most muscle loss (For me anyway) was on an extended cut over a period of 8 weeks+.

You thinking of trying it? I will keep use all posted though. I have before pictures and will post after pictures aswell

that diet is literally EXACTLY what I do haha even down to the cals (1800 sun-fri, 4-8k saturdays). I love the freedom it allows me on the weekend and with my work schedule it makes my weeks super easy... I just eat a nice big dinner each night and I'm g2g.

Eating this way and the regular fasting has allowed me to (for the first time in my life) maintain 10-12%bf year round vs my old way of up and down 40+lb summer vs winter each year. I actually can wear the same clothes all year now haha.

Totally agree the muscle loss wont happen in a day. You'll have plenty of reserves of fat and glycogen to power your body for those days from the surpluses. it's actually a perfect strategy and basically just a weekly extrapolation of any fasting protocol. Only thing I would NOT do is both 600 days back to back or on a workout day since you want to focus on building muscle on those days and would want the cals for recovery.

Excited to see what you think... If you log, tag me for sure!

 

[bell1986]

2 days done ? 1200 calories ive had in (Until now) 60 hours. All from Protein and some Veg. Feel perfectly fine. Did have some hunger going to bed lastnight but a glass a water saw it all ok.

Word of the wise dont go shopping while you have only eaten 600 calories in 48 hours though.. Every cake in the place was staring at me ? Managed though and stocked up for my next 5 surplus days.


This morning i weighed in at 163.5 pounds.. I started before the 2 day'r at 166 pounds. About a 2.5 pound drop in those 2 days.. All water 'Glycogen etc i reckon... i have no hunger at all so im gonna push my fast to later on in the day and then have something decent to eat ? 3100 calories today.

I have changed the routine slightly to include weight training on the 600 calorie days just to make sure i preserve muscle. Added in a session yesterday morning and pushed through it easily. Im not using any fat burner supplements during the 4 weeks they seem to make me more ravenous.

This diet is manageable if you have the discipline for the 600 cal days. Isn't easy but is any diet really? The trick is to keep busy constantly. I pedal'd 25 mile the day previous and yesterday i was working + had a workout + just kept on the go and it takes your mind off things

 

[booneman77]

2 days done �� 1200 calories ive had in (Until now) 60 hours. All from Protein and some Veg. Feel perfectly fine. Did have some hunger going to bed lastnight but a glass a water saw it all ok.

Word of the wise dont go shopping while you have only eaten 600 calories in 48 hours though.. Every cake in the place was staring at me �� Managed though and stocked up for my next 5 surplus days.


This morning i weighed in at 163.5 pounds.. I started before the 2 day'r at 166 pounds. About a 2.5 pound drop in those 2 days.. All water 'Glycogen etc i reckon... i have no hunger at all so im gonna push my fast to later on in the day and then have something decent to eat �� 3100 calories today.

I have changed the routine slightly to include weight training on the 600 calorie days just to make sure i preserve muscle. Added in a session yesterday morning and pushed through it easily. Im not using any fat burner supplements during the 4 weeks they seem to make me more ravenous.

This diet is manageable if you have the discipline for the 600 cal days. Isn't easy but is any diet really? The trick is to keep busy constantly. I pedal'd 25 mile the day previous and yesterday i was working + had a workout + just kept on the go and it takes your mind off things

I would not worry about muscle loss on those low cal days... if anything, weight lifting would actually be detrimental during those days as it would cause damage that then cannot be repaired due to a lack of cals. You wont lose mass or strength in a single day. Damage without recovery is far worse than not lifting at all. If you must do something, LISS cardio would be far and away the best option... gets blood flowing to ensure muscles are getting any avail nutrients, and wont have a negative impact.

Also, I think I mentioned before, it doesn't make much sense to fast 2 days in a row either... it just puts you in a surplus longer which will most likely just lead to an overabundance of cals by day 2-3 and those will just be stored as fat since your glycogen levels will be full already.

Optimally, something like high, high, low, high, high, low, high, low, high would prob be the best option

 

[bell1986]

I would not worry about muscle loss on those low cal days... if anything, weight lifting would actually be detrimental during those days as it would cause damage that then cannot be repaired due to a lack of cals. You wont lose mass or strength in a single day. Damage without recovery is far worse than not lifting at all. If you must do something, LISS cardio would be far and away the best option... gets blood flowing to ensure muscles are getting any avail nutrients, and wont have a negative impact.

Also, I think I mentioned before, it doesn't make much sense to fast 2 days in a row either... it just puts you in a surplus longer which will most likely just lead to an overabundance of cals by day 2-3 and those will just be stored as fat since your glycogen levels will be full already.

Optimally, something like high, high, low, high, high, low, high, low, high would prob be the best option

I dont have any carbs on those 2 days together doing low cal's so with the cardio + no carbs it should deplete all my glycogen stores will it not? I done the 2 days together as a trial this time round. I have managed it easy enough but like you said i might spread out the days i will see how the next few days are.

So you reckon just do some steady state cardio? I cycle alot is this a bit too intense on these low cal days? Suppose a lighter gear and less distance would cover it? Just to see how my body responds.

Think its possible to do the *impossible* lose fat and gain muscle over a period of time? I know my weight should decrease over this month though but i still have days where im in a surplus

 

[bell1986]

Should have added.. Abundance on cal's? I track fairly well so after a 7 day period my body is in a deficit more than a surplus so it should show my weight as a decrease? Very slight one but still a deficit of overall body energy used.. I believe in weekly calories than daily totals.

 

[booneman77]

I dont have any carbs on those 2 days together doing low cal's so with the cardio + no carbs it should deplete all my glycogen stores will it not? I done the 2 days together as a trial this time round. I have managed it easy enough but like you said i might spread out the days i will see how the next few days are.

So you reckon just do some steady state cardio? I cycle alot is this a bit too intense on these low cal days? Suppose a lighter gear and less distance would cover it? Just to see how my body responds.

Think its possible to do the *impossible* lose fat and gain muscle over a period of time? I know my weight should decrease over this month though but i still have days where im in a surplus

Yes, the low days would deplete glycogen stores, but after the first high day they will be refilled, meaning day 2, 3, and beyond you really wouldn't need nearly as many to stay full, even with workouts. My proposal would be have you deplete on the low day then refill the first high day, top off the second, and at most a little over on the 3rd, but then deplete again. If you do both low in a row, you'd be looking at 5 straight high days.

I think biking is fine, just don't go balls out for too long ha. HIIT is good, but meant to be kept shorter - 15min or so (25mi is not what I would call "shorter"). Lighter gearing or simply just less overall distance if you have to go harder would prob be best.

Should have added.. Abundance on cal's? I track fairly well so after a 7 day period my body is in a deficit more than a surplus so it should show my weight as a decrease? Very slight one but still a deficit of overall body energy used.. I believe in weekly calories than daily totals.

I think the cal levels you outlined should work out nicely for a recomp (which is totally possible). Its all about balance and control. If you keep the weekly deficit fairly minimal, the high days should be plenty to recover from your lifts, which is what will build the muscle, and additional muscle is what you will use to burn the fat, not really the minimal deficit.

 

[double s]

Clarify keep "fat at minimum" statement

 

[bb333]

How's it over?
I prefer to do 3 + 1, 3 days to average carbohydrates, 1 day to high carbohydrates, and so on ...
3 average days, 1 day high.
Proteins fixed every day, low fat low in the day of high carbohydrates.
Regardless of the workouts.

 

[bell1986]

Another day done.. About 30 mile covered on my bike and around 600 calories again. Im not lifting on these days.. I knoq the cycling is alot but dont think it will hinder anything as i will have 5 calorie surplus days in amongst it all. Today was a little tougher than my first 600 cal day but im keep going. Only carbs i have have had are from veggies. So minimum amount.

Im gonna stagger the 2 days and do the next 2 days at high calories and Thursday do the 600 again.

bb333. How does that eating plan work out for you? Do you notice any benifits?

 

[booneman77]

Another day done.. About 30 mile covered on my bike and around 600 calories again. Im not lifting on these days.. I knoq the cycling is alot but dont think it will hinder anything as i will have 5 calorie surplus days in amongst it all. Today was a little tougher than my first 600 cal day but im keep going. Only carbs i have have had are from veggies. So minimum amount.

Im gonna stagger the 2 days and do the next 2 days at high calories and Thursday do the 600 again.

bb333. How does that eating plan work out for you? Do you notice any benifits?

what exactly does your eating look like on your 600 days?

 

[bell1986]

what exactly does your eating look like on your 600 days?

I bulk up a dish with veggies.. Lower cal ones. Ie carrots ' Broccoli' Sprouts etc then i make a meat... Tonight i just pan fried some chicken.. The other nights i used mince.. A just use seasonings so its not boring.. Then a make a pudding with protein. 1 meal only from lastnight. Its not alot in one sitting but it gets me through till the next day.

 

[bb333]

Another day done.. About 30 mile covered on my bike and around 600 calories again. Im not lifting on these days.. I knoq the cycling is alot but dont think it will hinder anything as i will have 5 calorie surplus days in amongst it all. Today was a little tougher than my first 600 cal day but im keep going. Only carbs i have have had are from veggies. So minimum amount.

Im gonna stagger the 2 days and do the next 2 days at high calories and Thursday do the 600 again.

bb333. How does that eating plan work out for you? Do you notice any benifits?

it helps a lot to improve insulin sensitivity.
Just like the "mini cut" ... do 2 months of hyper calories, followed by 2 or 3 weeks of mini-cut, low calorie diet.

Or, during hyper-calories, train fast, and concentrate most carbohydrates around the workout.

at alternate days, days, with hyper days ...

 

[booneman77]

any updates on progress?

 

[ericos_bob]

Interesting. I may give this a try at some point. I do 16 days maintenance (3000) and 5 days supercompensation (4500-5000). It also works as I reset stronger not fatter.