4th cycle in 2.5 years. Time for a family help

IWC90

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Hey guys, I'm 28 and currently on week 3 of 12 of what I plan to be my last cycle. I've never done high dose cycles. Here's my past cycle experience.

1. August 2018 for 12 weeks Test Cup/EQ. (can't remember doses but it was low). PCT Anastrozole/ Tamoxifen/ Clomid. 1ml for 6 weeks .5ml for 4weeks (took anastrozole and tamoxifen on cycle at 1ml per day

2. Late Feb 2019 12 weeks then again Sept 2019 for 12 weeks. PCT same as above. Test Prop/Mast/ Tren. pin MWF at 50mg/50mg/25mg for 3 weeks then double everything for the final 8 weeks. Stayed on same on cycle stuff and PCT as before

3. Current Cycle on week 2 of 12. Sust (bottle is 300mg/ml not 250)/Mast/Tren. PCT and on cycle same as above. Pin MWF First 3 weeks 150mg sust/ 50mg mast/25mg tren. planning to increase to 300mg/100mg/50mg on week 4-12.

As said above I plan for this to be my last go around ever due to my wife being ready to start trying for a family in September/oct. After my last run I was definitely shut down but came back to normal after 6 weeks or so of PCT (ended up cutting Pct shorter than planned but won't this time).

Question is should I just expect more of the same after this final run. Is there anything else that I can do to prevent the shut down. I've worked myself into being terrified of not being able to have a family due to running cycles. Each time I've bounced back fine. and had mild sides. Most notable being hair loss when on cycle but got some regrowth. Sex drive was dead for 1-2months after my last Tren Cycle and I'm sure it will be again after this one. Just wondering if I need to take any other precautions. From what I've read I'll 95% be back to normal after 2-3months regardless but I always heir on the side of caution. Thanks for the help!
 
dezzy84

dezzy84

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Hey guys, I'm 28 and currently on week 3 of 12 of what I plan to be my last cycle. I've never done high dose cycles. Here's my past cycle experience.

1. August 2018 for 12 weeks Test Cup/EQ. (can't remember doses but it was low). PCT Anastrozole/ Tamoxifen/ Clomid. 1ml for 6 weeks .5ml for 4weeks (took anastrozole and tamoxifen on cycle at 1ml per day

2. Late Feb 2019 12 weeks then again Sept 2019 for 12 weeks. PCT same as above. Test Prop/Mast/ Tren. pin MWF at 50mg/50mg/25mg for 3 weeks then double everything for the final 8 weeks. Stayed on same on cycle stuff and PCT as before

3. Current Cycle on week 2 of 12. Sust (bottle is 300mg/ml not 250)/Mast/Tren. PCT and on cycle same as above. Pin MWF First 3 weeks 150mg sust/ 50mg mast/25mg tren. planning to increase to 300mg/100mg/50mg on week 4-12.

As said above I plan for this to be my last go around ever due to my wife being ready to start trying for a family in September/oct. After my last run I was definitely shut down but came back to normal after 6 weeks or so of PCT (ended up cutting Pct shorter than planned but won't this time).

Question is should I just expect more of the same after this final run. Is there anything else that I can do to prevent the shut down. I've worked myself into being terrified of not being able to have a family due to running cycles. Each time I've bounced back fine. and had mild sides. Most notable being hair loss when on cycle but got some regrowth. Sex drive was dead for 1-2months after my last Tren Cycle and I'm sure it will be again after this one. Just wondering if I need to take any other precautions. From what I've read I'll 95% be back to normal after 2-3months regardless but I always heir on the side of caution. Thanks for the help!
I get off the tren by week 8, and start tapering down by week 10. You should probably be running HCG through the whole cycle and post cycle to help with fertility and testicular function.

Another option, is instead of going totally off, you could run a low trt dose of testosterone (say...100-150mg a week for a couple of months), so you don't feel like complete sh*t (add HCG).

I think infertility due to steroids is overstated. I've had a kid while on a cycle plenty of people I know.
 

IWC90

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I get off the tren by week 8, and start tapering down by week 10. You should probably be running HCG through the whole cycle and post cycle to help with fertility and testicular function.

Another option, is instead of going totally off, you could run a low trt dose of testosterone (say...100-150mg a week for a couple of months), so you don't feel like complete sh*t (add HCG).

I think infertility due to steroids is overstated. I've had a kid while on a cycle plenty of people I know.
Gotcha. I have no experience at all with HCG. Just kinda stressed myself out thinking about the whole family thing. So you think I should just run tren to week 8-9 then drop it completely? and add HCG as part of PCT?
 
dezzy84

dezzy84

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Gotcha. I have no experience at all with HCG. Just kinda stressed myself out thinking about the whole family thing. So you think I should just run tren to week 8-9 then drop it completely? and add HCG as part of PCT?
Depends. Is it trenbolone acetate or a longer ester? If it's acetate it will get out of your body quicker, but I'd still do 8 because it's so suppressive on your natural function. I'd get some HCG asap. Don't have to run that much I do 200iu, keeps the 'boys' plump.

What you don't want is for September to roll around and you got two 'raisins' and a super low sperm count. You should be fine, but start now.
 

IWC90

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Sounds good. Yeah is Tren A. How often do you do HCG. like I said, no experience with it at all. I can prolly have some by mid next week.
 

IWC90

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Did a little research and several places recommended to due 250IU. 2x week for weeks 3-12 on a 12 week cycle and to come off of it when you come off cycle so that your body realizes quickly to produce on its own??
 
dezzy84

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Did a little research and several places recommended to due 250IU. 2x week for weeks 3-12 on a 12 week cycle and to come off of it when you come off cycle so that your body realizes quickly to produce on its own??
Yeah there's a few different protocols. I'm on TRT, so I stay on it all the time. I'd keep running it after at a low dose until I knock her up (that's just me), but find out what works best for you.
 
Whisky

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Hey bro, when you say you came back to normal after 6 weeks of pct do you mean that you were still taking clomid etc when you tested?
 
Hyde

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Did a little research and several places recommended to due 250IU. 2x week for weeks 3-12 on a 12 week cycle and to come off of it when you come off cycle so that your body realizes quickly to produce on its own??
This is how you run HCG, except you want to start it by day 10 (not possible now so just start as soon as it arrives). HCG bypasses the HPTA and tells your nuts to create test, which keeps your hypothalamus suppressed and thinking it doesn’t need to create any more LH because it’s already seeing all the test the body needs. READ: HCG DOES NOT BELONG IN PCT/OFF-TIME.

If you can’t recover and are on HRT, HCG is fine for increasing sperm count, testicle size, test, estrogen, and sex drive. But unless you are infertile later on, keep the use to on-cycle to prevent testicular atrophy. Healthy sized balls mean it’s much easier for them to start back up with your endogenous test production when you begin PCT.

250iu 2x week, or even once per week, is sufficient. Blasting thousands of IU at the end of a cycle only needs to be done because the testes have been allowed to fully atrophy and are tough to wake up. You would do much better to keep them full and working from the start. The analogy is ignoring your gf for 12 weeks then begging and pleading for her to take you back, vs just giving her a bit of normal attention weekly and never breaking up with her in the first place. It goes much smoother with less effort.
 
Jinsun

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This is how you run HCG, except you want to start it by day 10 (not possible now so just start as soon as it arrives). HCG bypasses the HPTA and tells your nuts to create test, which keeps your hypothalamus suppressed and thinking it doesn’t need to create any more LH because it’s already seeing all the test the body needs. READ: HCG DOES NOT BELONG IN PCT/OFF-TIME.
This.

Regarding the amount of HCG, it's actually a bit more. Mind you, this has been tested with proper research. It's going to be around 350IU every 36h (half life of HCG) or EOD (as I usually do it).

"Posttreatment ITT was 25% less than baseline in the 125 IU hCG group, 7% less than baseline in the 250 IU hCG group, and 26% greater than baseline in the 500 IU hCG group." ITT means intratesticular testosterone. This is the Test that's needed to keep your balls alive.

Here is the Study link. This was done with men on 200mg's test e.
 

IWC90

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I'm currently on my 2nd week of this cycle of sust/mast/tren.
Original plan was as follows

1st 3 weeks (Low Doses
150mg sust MWF
50mg mast MWF
25mg tren ace MWF

Anastrozole 1mg every day
Tamoxifen 1ml=20mg every day


weeks 4-12
300mg sust MWF
100mg mast MWF
50mg tren ace MWF

Anastrozole and Tamoxifen stay the same


For PCT I will continue with tamoxifen and anstrozle and add in clomid @50mg beginning 1 week after last pin. I'll stay at 50mg clomid for 4 weeks then drop to 25 for 6 weeks

I've got a guy ordering me some HCG that should arrive this weekend so I will do 250IUs 2x a week starting next Monday.

I've also considered lowering my tren length to 8 weeks but the past 2 runs I've done 12 and it hasn't been that awful. Thoughts?

Also is Sust at 900mg/week not high? This is first time using that and I normally use test at 300mg/week instead of sust
 
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hey bro.. all a guy needs to do is run Palumbos' fertility regimen no need to quit cycling if you don't really want to..

just follow his program and you will be primed for making babies.
 
Hyde

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This.

Regarding the amount of HCG, it's actually a bit more. Mind you, this has been tested with proper research. It's going to be around 350IU every 36h (half life of HCG) or EOD (as I usually do it).

"Posttreatment ITT was 25% less than baseline in the 125 IU hCG group, 7% less than baseline in the 250 IU hCG group, and 26% greater than baseline in the 500 IU hCG group." ITT means intratesticular testosterone. This is the Test that's needed to keep your balls alive.

Here is the Study link. This was done with men on 200mg's test e.
I have also read this study; you certainly aren’t wrong.

The 250iu 2x week is purely my brovice based on how much more estrogen I get from essentially 1,000/wk vs 500. I have used both dosing schemes & the amount of extra AI/SERM I need to do to control gyno is not worth what I feel amounts to a negligible difference in function FOR ME. Especially for someone using tren, along with an already very large dose of test, I would be trying to minimize additional estrogen to help limit sides.

Also, OP - why so much fuckin test all of a sudden? Why jump from 300 to nearly a gram? What was wrong with 600??
 

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I've decided to not up my test on week 4. going to stay at 450 test per week. Also going to shorten tren to week 8 and up my MWF dose to 50mg next week. Going to leave mast at 300mg per week. Going to get hcg and begin immediately upon arrival. Also still take tamoxifen and anastrozole. and will add clomidd 10 days after last pin
 
Jinsun

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Especially for someone using tren, along with an already very large dose of test, I would be trying to minimize additional estrogen to help limit sides.
But how much more estrogen can there be from a bit more ITT test?

It's hard to say though, if it's better to use a bit more Ai and have more ITT or to have less ITT and a smaller Ai dosage. How high does ITT have to be in order to protect your balls health? Is it enough for it to be at 50% or should it be higher ... I don't think we actually know this? Not to mention that this study was done just on 200mg's test. Does the equation change if you have other anabolics in your system? Also, not to mention that the HCG we buy is not straight from the pharmacy. So we have no idea if the potency is what it's supposed to be. Maybe what you think is 250IU is actually 100IU.

Just some food for thought ...
 
Jinsun

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@rtmilburn I think was saying something about HCG having a short shelf life and that's it's hard to acquire in good condition?
 
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Hyde

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But how much more estrogen can there be from a bit more ITT test?

It's hard to say though, if it's better to use a bit more Ai and have more ITT or to have less ITT and a smaller Ai dosage. How high does ITT have to be in order to protect your balls health? Is it enough for it to be at 50% or should it be higher ... I don't think we actually know this? Not to mention that this study was done just on 200mg's test. Does the equation change if you have other anabolics in your system? Also, not to mention that the HCG we buy is not straight from the pharmacy. So we have no idea if the potency is what it's supposed to be. Maybe what you think is 250IU is actually 100IU.

Just some food for thought ...
Sure, doses could be off, but that’s not really relevant. You always have to dose in good faith and based on what you are experiencing. Being off 7% average test production doesn’t worry me; I have bounced back fine every time to date. What you definitely don’t want tho is to have your nuts not doing any work for months. That’s the big picture here.

I didn’t want to spend the money on what for me was literally twice as much Exemestane and Raloxifene to keep my titties happy when half the HCG kept my nuts happy. Some people get a lot of estrogen from HCG use. I am one of them. YMMV.

@rtmilburn I think was saying something about HCG having a short shelf life and that's it's hard to acquire in good condition?
It continues to slowly degrade over time, but is definitely still effective even after a couple months in the fridge. I know, because my balls would literally swell the days I took my HCG shots. You can feel the libido surge too. This is different vendors mind you, same response. And using both premixed and dry I reconstituted myself. I mean premixed stuff from India that shows up in 70* weather and it works beautifully. You can literally see and feel it working. A vial will last a full 12 week cycle. Just introduce it around day 10 and run it til about a week before SERM PCT would begin.
 
Jinsun

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It continues to slowly degrade over time, but is definitely still effective even after a couple months in the fridge. I know, because my balls would literally swell the days I took my HCG shots. You can feel the libido surge too. This is different vendors mind you, same response. And using both premixed and dry I reconstituted myself. I mean premixed stuff from India that shows up in 70* weather and it works beautifully. You can literally see and feel it working. A vial will last a full 12 week cycle. Just introduce it around day 10 and run it til about a week before SERM PCT would begin.
Interesting. So if I understand correctly, you're saying a reconstituted vial lasts you a whole cycle? It doesn't go bad? I usually keep to the 4 weeks rule with HCG + BAC ...
 
Hyde

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Interesting. So if I understand correctly, you're saying a reconstituted vial lasts you a whole cycle? It doesn't go bad? I usually keep to the 4 weeks rule with HCG + BAC ...
Exactly. I keep it in the fridge and it just keeps working. I figured, Well let’s just keep taking it and see - and even if it’s degrading, it’s definitely still active enough to tell it’s working.
 
Hyde

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Interesting. So if I understand correctly, you're saying a reconstituted vial lasts you a whole cycle? It doesn't go bad? I usually keep to the 4 weeks rule with HCG + BAC ...
Exactly. I keep it in the fridge and it just keeps working. I figured, Well let’s just keep taking it and see - and even if it’s degrading, it’s definitely still active enough to tell it’s working.
 

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