4AD to test base

crazypete said:
yeah, back in '53. 90%. sorry, couldn't resist. i don't know if anyone has tried this recently.
Click to expand...

The reason that I asked whether anyone has done this procedure and what were the results is that there has been a tremendous amount of discussion on this thread as to how it should be done, what chemicals required, etc., etc. but so far no one here has done it.

I'm not disputing the fact that it was done in 53 when the procedure was published. I just want to know if anybody with the knowledge and materials to do it are going to step up to the plate and then do it. Otherwise, this discussion will continue to remain just that - a lively debate on how to make test from 4-AD. I mean this thread is several months old!!!

Personally, I do not have the skills nor the chemicals to try this. And, having read some of the statements here regarding the toxicity and flammability of some of the materials, I don't think I would consider it until one of our "experts" has tried it (and that would include testing the product for purity and possibly even administering it to themselves).

So, all I am saying is that if you believe that it can be done safely and economically, then do it and let us all know how it worked out, and more importantly what you learned from the process.
 
well said. i'd like to give it a go, i think that i'd be able to test the material produced at school, they have the right equipment in the lab. i doubt i'd be able to do it before the end of the summer though.

cheers, pete
 
Just posting so I can subscribe to this thread. I work in a lab so getting these chems will be no problem. I love this place....lol
 
OK bro's, I have a few questions about this process.
1) What is the ratio of acetone/hexane used to re-crystallize the test?

2)During re-crystallization are the only things used acetone/hexane? I can't find much on the solubility of Test, but one source said it was around 26g/L. If so you wouldn't be able to wash the final product with water.
 
sars was blown up by the media man, I know somebody who had it before it was all over the news, he was in my english class, he recovered from it no problem.
 
This is my understanding of the process. I've just organized the entire thread to an easy to follow article. I'm still not exactly sure about what ratio of acetone/hexane to use. If anyone knows, please post it up. Also keep in mind that no one has done this and posted results.Here's the article:

Abstract:

4-androstene-3,17-diol (4AD) undergoes an oxidation/reduction to form 4-Androsten-17-ol-3-one (Testosterone).

Introduction:

This is just a summary of a conversion found at AM. The original idea was published in the Journal of the American Chemical Society, 75th Ed. , Sondheimer et al. 1953. Also thanks to Crazypete for digging it up and rotarnomore for contributing. I have simply organized the process and added some useful information.

Most of this process is conducted at room temperature. However, during the evaporation process be aware that Hexane is highly flammable. Also note that Chloroform is somewhat poisonous and its vapor is heavier than air. If inhaled for a long period it can cause you to pass out. It is advised to conduct this process in a well ventilated area.

Reagents........................MF................MW..........MPC.........BPC
Chloroform.......................CHCl3...........119.3779.....N/A......61.7
Acetone...........................C3H6O..........58.0798.....-94.3.....56
Hexane............................C6H14........86.1766....N/A.............
Manganese Dioxide.............MnO2..............86.9368.....535........N/A
4-Androstene-13,17-diol....C19H30O2.....290.44.........................
4-Androsten-17-ol-3-one....C19H28O2....288.4............154.........


Discussion:

C19H30O2 + MnO2 ---> C19H28O2 + MnO + H2O
(Molecular Formula for Reaction)

In this reaction MnO2 is used as an oxidizer to remove the two H from the single O at the end of the hexane ring. MnO2 is also the excess reagent in the reaction. Chloroform acts as the solvent for the 4AD & the Test because it will not dissolve the MnO2 or MnO.

Experimental:

Supply List:

Couple of 500ml beakers
Magnetic Stirring bars
Stir/hot plate
Thermometer
Filter papers
Filter funnel
500ml Filter flask
Thick walled hose
Scales
*Most of this can be replaced with a variety of things….be creative.

Reagents:

*To make 1g 4-Androsten-17-ol-3-one (Testosterone) you’ll need:
25-100ml Chloroform
5-10g Manganese Dioxide
1g 4-Androstene-13,17-diol (4AD)

Procedure:

•Pour chloroform in a beaker equipped with magnetic stirring bar.

•Begin stirring and add in 4AD & MnO2. Allow mixing to proceed for a minimum of 10hrs. at room temperature.

•Filter the solution and wash the solid 3 times with warm chloroform. Save the washes and combine them with the filtered solution.

•Evaporate the chloroform using the hot plate &/or a hair dryer until it is completely dry.

•Allow the beaker to cool to prevent shattering it. Then add an acetone/hexane mix to re-crystallize the Test.

•Filter solution and dry the crystallized Test. Save the acetone/hexane soln.

•Let the Test air dry in a desicator jar or lightly covered with a paper towel.

•Weigh the crystals. If you have around 90% yield then you’re done. If not, filter the acetone/hexane soln again and repeat drying/weighing process. Continue doing so until you have a 90% yield.
 
Klaus said:
It's not Manganese Dioxide; it's Manganese(IV) Oxide.
Click to expand...

What are you refering to bro? The reducing reagent is MnO2 with an oxidation charge of +4 (O has a charge of -2 x 2). MnO would put Mn in the +2 state.
 
from where you will get hexane?
i belive its a aromatic or cyclo molcule.....most cyclo agents are toxic (not all). although im not sure hexane toxic or not. i dont want any left over from crystalization to enter my body. i will hesistate to put hexane in my body.
 
x_muscle said:
from where you will get hexane?
i belive its a aromatic or cyclo molcule.....most cyclo agents are toxic (not all). although im not sure hexane toxic or not. i dont want any left over from crystalization to enter my body. i will hesistate to put hexane in my body.
Click to expand...

I spoke to Chemo about this process & he said that Test isn't sol in water to any large degree. In light of that, it should be OK to wash the final product a few times with DI water. That should remove any residual compounds. A simple melting point test should is a rough way of determining purity (Unless you have access to an NMR or such).
 
Klaus said:
MnO2 is an ionic compound, not a molecular compound. Calling it Manganese Dioxide is incorrect nomenclature. The Manganese atom must have a 4+ charge since it is bonded with two oxygen atoms. Since this is so, it is correctly called Manganese(IV) Oxide. The (IV) denotes its charge.
Click to expand...

Manganese dioxide [1313-13-9]
Synonyms: Black Dioxide; Black manganese oxide; Cement black; Manganese dioxide; Manganese Black; Manganese (IV) dioxide; Manganese (IV) oxide; Manganese oxide; Manganese Peroxide;

I'm not really following what you're saying. I recall back in inroductory chem when we learned nomenclature, MnO2 was called manganese dioxode. Unless someone changed chemistry without telling me, it's still the same. I happen to work at a facility where MnO2 is produced occasionaly as an impurity. The kenetics to form MnO2 are very good in a Mn solution at a pH of =<7. Now when I have to discuss this with our chem E's in Germany, we universaly recognize it as manganese dioxide. I see what you are saying, but in real life you'll never hear anyone refer to manganese (IV) oxide.
 
For what its worth, Manganese Dioxide is correct nomenclature. Hexane is neither cyclic nor aromatic but is aliphatic (straight chained). It is still toxic but to what level I'm not exactly sure. I wouldn't think a small absorbtion would be any worse than spilling gas on your hands. You can Material Safety Data Sheets (MSDS's) on the web if you do a search.
Chris
 
Mr.Striation said:
Id like to know that as well, also is the MnO2 active did anyone find that out yet?
Click to expand...
I don't think there is such a thing as "inactive" MnO2 (or active for that matter). I read the experiment and my guess would be that the scientists that conducted the experiment had a batch of MnO2 go bad on them (probably oxidizes itself in air to MnO which is a more stable state for Manganese). they stated that a freshly prepared batch of MnO2 worked much better. the experiment only relies on the Mn in the +4 oxidation state.
Chris
 
That is correct rotarnomore. I have personally given up on these type conversions. I have plenty of MnO2 if anyone wants to seriously try this. I also have Alumina TLC plates. Shoot me a PM if anyone is interested. All I'd ask is that you pay shipping and that you post your test procedures and results.
 
candle25 said:
That is correct rotarnomore. I have personally given up on these type conversions. I have plenty of MnO2 if anyone wants to seriously try this. I also have Alumina TLC plates. Shoot me a PM if anyone is interested. All I'd ask is that you pay shipping and that you post your test procedures and results.
Click to expand...

What kind of test results would you be looking for?
 
Mr S: I'd just like to see how things go with his experiment.

ps2: You can't use NaOH because it is most likely to dissociate as Na+ OH-. In this reaction MnO2 is used as an oxidizer to remove the two H from the single O at the end of the hexane ring. MnO2 is also the excess reagent in the reaction. Chloroform acts as the solvent for the 4AD & the Test because it will not dissolve the MnO2 or MnO.
 
Lol. I have a BS in Chemical Engineering, I have worked in the industrial chemistry field for 3 years, and I am presently the senior Chem E where I am employed. I know a few things about chemistry. ;)

Why, did I say something that isn't correct? I just realized a long time ago that this conversion is too much BS. That is the only reason that I haven't been putting very much effort into my posts concerning it. I'll be glad to assist anyone that wants to try it, but I found that it is a pain. It's much easier to buy raw powders (as in AAS) and work with them.
 
i can't find nandrolone BASE anywhere for transdermal

I thought I could synthesize it from the prohormone via this technique
 
candle25 said:
Lol. I have a BS in Chemical Engineering, I have worked in the industrial chemistry field for 3 years, and I am presently the senior Chem E where I am employed. I know a few things about chemistry. ;)

Why, did I say something that isn't correct? I just realized a long time ago that this conversion is too much BS. That is the only reason that I haven't been putting very much effort into my posts concerning it. I'll be glad to assist anyone that wants to try it, but I found that it is a pain. It's much easier to buy raw powders (as in AAS) and work with them.
Click to expand...
I too have a BS in Chem E and a bachelors in chemistry so I know some chemistry (at least what I haven't forgotten) :). I don't believe this experiment is BS and looks good on paper. It just needs to be proven.
Chris
 
i think this whole thing is useless for getting test because test powder is availble everywhere.

nandrolone base however......:)
 
rotarnomore said:
I too have a BS in Chem E and a bachelors in chemistry so I know some chemistry (at least what I haven't forgotten) :). I don't believe this experiment is BS and looks good on paper. It just needs to be proven.
Chris
Click to expand...
I agree that it should work. It is just difficult. PM me your addy and I'll get thet MnO2 out to ya.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top