46 and ready for the prohormone train. Advice welcome.

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46 and ready for the prohormone train (Epistane)

I'm 46 and in the best shape of my life. I bench 315, do 24 pullups, and regularly run 10ks. I've used sarms but I'm ready to try a shred ph, to be followed by an lgd, rad, and ostarine bulk after PCT.

I'm looking at epi from German pharma for a 6 week shred. I've got plenty of clomid on hand for PCT. What would you suggest for on cycle support besides milk thistle? Would cloimid and nolva be sufficient for PCT?, and what would you recommend?

I'm 46, 6'0, 210, and roughly 15 % bf. My natural T is 740. I track macros and the diet is dialed in.

I'm doing research now and won't run the cycle until I have everything on hand. So your advice is welcome, brothers.
 
flandersguy said:
I'm 46 and in the best shape of my life. I bench 315, do 24 pullups, and regularly run 10ks. I've used sarms but I'm ready to try a shred ph, to be followed by an lgd, rad, and ostarine bulk after PCT.

I'm looking at epi from German pharma for a 6 week shred. I've got plenty of clomid on hand for PCT. What would you suggest for on cycle support besides milk thistle? Would cloimid and nolva be sufficient for PCT?, and what would you recommend?

I'm 46, 6'0, and roughly 15 % bf. My natural T is 740. I track macros and the diet is dialed in.

I'm doing research now and won't run the cycle until I have everything on hand. So your advice is welcome, brothers.
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You're probably not going to like my answer but if I was 46 years old, had those numbers, felt fit and pain-free enough to regularly run 10Ks, and my natural T was 740, I'd stay far away from the world of AAS!

Having said that, I hope you plan on waiting a few months after PCT to start your bulk. That time off is vitally important.

Get yourself a quality all-in-one cycle support (I like CEL Cycle Support) and add in 500mg of TUDCA ED. Make sure lipid support is a priority on cycle. Make sure you can monitor your BP on a regular basis - an at-home monitor is always a good idea when cycling.

I would definitely opt for Nolva for PCT, especially with the reported potential for estrogen-rebound with Epistane. You can use a dual-SERM approach if you like, I prefer that. Just half-dose them (or lower the dosages) and run the Tamox past the clomi for the extra protection against gyno. I always like to add a light dose of an AI (Exemestane) during PCT, especially with a dual-SERM approach. It will help to boost TT as well.
 
Honestly I’d look at pinning test bro. I started with a couple of ph runs (including epi and trest last time). Loved it but made me realise that pinning was definitely the way I wanted to go (I start my first pin cycle in sept). I expect the gains to be higher and more maintainable post pct.

I think you’d need/want a test base - if you aren’t pinning then imo TD trest is probably the next best but you’ll want a pharma ai on hand for sure. Yes trest is wet but many will attest to its leaning out qualities, if you keep dosage sensible and carbs lowish I think you’d be happy (you’ll also feel amazing), the lethargy from Epi will suck otherwise.

A decent all in one for on cycle support (cel cycle assist or arm1care pro) plus tudca would be a good idea.
 
^ I forgot about a base compound. Good catch.

If sticking with orals, a mild base (with some wetness) is a good idea. A DHEA/Pregnenolone TD, or that in combination with some 4-DHEA is a solid combo.

Test is great and you'll likely feel better on Test than most other compounds, especially orals. Having said that, if you do want to keep your natural T production running as efficiently as possible, I'd suggest skipping longer injectable cycles and sticking to shorter/milder oral cycles with plenty of time off. There certainly are things you can do to aid recovery from longer cycles (HCG etc.) but it's just a different long-term game. If you plan on cycling well into the future and are ok with being on TRT, injectables might be a better option going forward.....maybe.
 
Whisky said:
Honestly I’d look at pinning test bro. I started with a couple of ph runs (including epi and trest last time). Loved it but made me realise that pinning was definitely the way I wanted to go (I start my first pin cycle in sept). I expect the gains to be higher and more maintainable post pct.

I think you’d need/want a test base - if you aren’t pinning then imo TD trest is probably the next best but you’ll want a pharma ai on hand for sure. Yes trest is wet but many will attest to its leaning out qualities, if you keep dosage sensible and carbs lowish I think you’d be happy (you’ll also feel amazing), the lethargy from Epi will suck otherwise.

A decent all in one for on cycle support (cel cycle assist or arm1care pro) plus tudca would be a good idea.
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I agree. Pin test. 500wk of test e will give you better results than anything else...for what you are doing
 
I agree with test, but, if pinning is out and you can swing the cash then td trest, oral trest epistane is a great cycle.
 
I'm not ready to pin yet. I don't want to tank the natural T, nor commit to a lifetime of injections. Moreover getting access to a reliable source is incredibly difficult where I live. Sarms and prohormones are easy to acquire. So for me, for now at least, injectables are out. I might consider them in the future if my natural levels plummet. So I prefer orals for the moment. I would really like to try epistane, though I take Toren's comments on board. I appreciate any and all advice.
 
flandersguy said:
I'm not ready to pin yet. I don't want to tank the natural T, nor commit to a lifetime of injections.
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Just wanted to highlight that ph’s/sarms will still shut you down bro (well any that give decent results will and they all have the potential to).....

Legality/accessibility etc is a solid rationale and fair enough, but not wanting to tank your natural t isn’t......just want you to be eyes open that your taking that risk either way.....
 
flandersguy said:
I'm not ready to pin yet. I don't want to tank the natural T, nor commit to a lifetime of injections.
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Just wanted to highlight that ph’s/sarms will still shut you down bro (well any that give decent results will and they all have the potential to).....

Legality/accessibility etc is a solid rationale and fair enough, but not wanting to tank your natural t isn’t......just want you to be eyes open that your taking that risk either way.....
 
Do I misunderstand that starting test is not a lifelong commitment? Can one run test cycles and not destroy one’s nuts permanently? About sarms/ph, yes, they suppress test, but a few weeks of clomid and the boys will be bouncing again. I’ve run sarms cycles and they never shut me down. Suppression yes, but as I said, serms fix that.

The biggest issue for me is accessibility. Test is not available where I live. I’ve tried for years, believe me. I’m stocked up on sarms big time, enough for a small army actually. I can get phs easily.
 
flandersguy said:
Do I misunderstand that starting test is not a lifelong commitment? Can one run test cycles and not destroy one’s nuts permanently? About sarms/ph, yes, they suppress test, but a few weeks of clomid and the boys will be bouncing again. I’ve run sarms cycles and they never shut me down. Suppression yes, but as I said, serms fix that.

The biggest issue for me is accessibility. Test is not available where I live. I’ve tried for years, believe me. I’m stocked up on sarms big time, enough for a small army actually. I can get phs easily.
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You can run test cycles and serms will bring you back same as sarms. In most cases anyways. Theres always the risk that you end up on trt anyways
 
flandersguy said:
I'm not ready to pin yet. I don't want to tank the natural T, nor commit to a lifetime of injections. Moreover getting access to a reliable source is incredibly difficult where I live. Sarms and prohormones are easy to acquire. So for me, for now at least, injectables are out. I might consider them in the future if my natural levels plummet. So I prefer orals for the moment. I would really like to try epistane, though I take Toren's comments on board. I appreciate any and all advice.
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Prohormone cycle will tank your natural test no different then pinning will
 
medinacirilo said:
Skip the orals and get to the real deal. But if you’re natty-T is 740 I’d stay natty!!!
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I have tried to get test. I really have. I live in Belgium and every time I've tried it's been confiscated by customs. However, I can easily get sarms and prohormones from a reliable EU source.

People keep telling me to just do test instead of phs or sarms but I can't get it. Believe me, I've tried people.

I've got loads of sarms and I like them. I'm looking for something stronger so the obvious choice are Phs, unless you guys know of European sources for test, though I am not allowed to ask that here.

Given that I am very healthy and my natural test is 740, I've got some thinking to do...
 
flandersguy said:
I have tried to get test. I really have. I live in Belgium and every time I've tried it's been confiscated by customs. However, I can easily get sarms and prohormones from a reliable EU source.

People keep telling me to just do test instead of phs or sarms but I can't get it. Believe me, I've tried people.

I've got loads of sarms and I like them. I'm looking for something stronger so the obvious choice are Phs, unless you guys know of European sources for test, though I am not allowed to ask that here.

Given that I am very healthy and my natural test is 740, I've got some thinking to do...
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Higher doses of lgd and s23 are very similar to oral steroids
 
bradleyt1 said:
At 46 why would you even fool around with prohormones? Get on some TRT and blast and cruise
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Maybe you didn't read the entire thread? My natural T is 740 and I can't get test from a doctor or elsewhere.
 
Renew1 said:
A lot of people would love to have that number bro.

��
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Ya I would kill for 740 total test! I started trt a few months ago. At 175 mg a week and total t only comes into low 600s. They are boosting me to 200mg test a week, but I suspect even at that dose I still won’t reach 740!
 
JoePaul39 said:
Ya I would kill for 740 total test! I started trt a few months ago. At 175 mg a week and total t only comes into low 600s. They are boosting me to 200mg test a week, but I suspect even at that dose I still won’t reach 740!
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PM sent.
 
flandersguy said:
Maybe you didn't read the entire thread? My natural T is 740 and I can't get test from a doctor or elsewhere.
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Man at 740 at your age that is awesome! Especially considering you have been running Sarms. Wonder what your total t was when you were in your twenties?
 
JoePaul39 said:
Man at 740 at your age that is awesome! Especially considering you have been running Sarms. Wonder what your total t was when you were in your twenties?
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I benched 300 when I was 16 and ate garbage. Wish I could go back physically, I think we all would.
 
Week 2: Feel great. Running 40 mg of epi ed. Also added 400 mg of stano ed to the help with eventual lethargy. I will increase that as the cycle moves on.

Strength seems to be up (placebo effect?), stamina too. Recovery seems to be the biggest change (to me). it almost seems like I could lift twice a day. I’ve not felt that in 2 decades.

I’m eating 2k calories ed and am dropping between 100-200 grams a day in bodyweight.

Did LISS today. What a breeze.

Side note: Many women are looking pretty hot atm.
 
Week 4: Feel great. Running 40 mg of epi a day. I’m down 14 pounds in 2 months, though weight loss is stalling a bit.

I am getting far more vascular. Libido is good.

My lifts are up across the board, even though I’m in a pretty deep caloric deficit. Some days I’m at 1,800 cals, and average around 1,900. Surprisingly, I’m not hungry? Someone said I likely wouldn’t be able to do six weeks without a test base, but right now I’m thinking it’s totally possible. Of course I’m running 800 mg of stano a day which I’m sure helps.

Is my T suppressed? Probably. However, I’m waking up with wood every morning, which suggests to me that it’s going to be OK.

I’m not sure Epistane is better than a GW, S4, and Ostarine cutting stack overall, though I am stronger. We’ll see how much I can hold onto through pct.

I did 32 pull-ups today, a PR.
 
I’m in PCT: one more week. I’ve held my strength gains, though volume on bench has gone down a bit. Overall I feel good. First week of PCT I felt like crap, but I guess that’s normal. I’m satisfied with Epistane and will run again it in the future if my bloods come back OK.
 
flandersguy said:
I'm not ready to pin yet. I don't want to tank the natural T, nor commit to a lifetime of injections. Moreover getting access to a reliable source is incredibly difficult where I live. Sarms and prohormones are easy to acquire. So for me, for now at least, injectables are out. I might consider them in the future if my natural levels plummet. So I prefer orals for the moment. I would really like to try epistane, though I take Toren's comments on board. I appreciate any and all advice.
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You are going to **** yourself long term anyway with these stupid pseudo steroids. Testosterone Plus an anabolic = excellent cycle.
 
flandersguy said:
I’m in PCT: one more week. I’ve held my strength gains, though volume on bench has gone down a bit. Overall I feel good. First week of PCT I felt like crap, but I guess that’s normal. I’m satisfied with Epistane and will run again it in the future if my bloods come back OK.
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Did it blow away all the Sarms cycles you previously ran?
 
JoePaul39 said:
Did it blow away all the Sarms cycles you previously ran?
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No. S4, GW, and Ostarine are solid af with no sides, though pct is needed.

My next cycle is going to be Testosterone Enanthate at 500 mg/ week. I’ve got all the goods on hand. I’m just going to wait until the body is ready. I’m really looking forward to it tbh.
 
I could honestly say testosterone by itself at even 300- 400mg will have you feeling great and get nice steady results.. no toxic feeling like ****.. or anything that’s gonna affect your sleep or anxiety etc
 
I’m kind of in agreement with these guys. The only reason I run orals is they are instant gratification and fun. I rarely bother with them for maintainable results I want to keep long term...
 
You know, I wish I would've seen this sooner. I'd have said if you're already stacking SARMS three at a time why not just add epi to your SARM cycle? epi alone can't touch a solid stack. Hell, most oral AAS solo can't touch a solid stack of other AAS or SARMS. SD maybe.

I for one have no problem using whatever compound by itself and don't necessarily feel limited to pinning test plus whatever every cycle. But it's true, I too mainly only use designer steroids and ph products for the fun of it, figuring out how to keep it is half the fun though.
 
bradleyt1 said:
I could honestly say testosterone by itself at even 300- 400mg will have you feeling great and get nice steady results.. no toxic feeling like ****.. or anything that’s gonna affect your sleep or anxiety etc
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Exactly.
If I had to trade any oral on earth 3x a year but I’d never get to run 200/Test a week for life. It wouldn’t even be a decision. Even low dose test does more for me than any of the best orals do. Feel great, keep every bit of muscle I put on. Strength steadily climbs. Overall energy, libido, and well being is hands down the best I could even imagine at my age.
 
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