41 year. Ph stack
- Thread starter Cb777
- Start date
nubioso
Active member
Technically, any of them can have the potential to cause lethargy.
There's no guarantee.
That in mind, based on what you said I'd look to Androsterone or Epiandrosterone.
Both convert to DHT and ultimately stanolone, but the androsterone has more anti-estrogenic properties than the epiandrosterone. Just Google the differences and see which one lines up with what you want.
Those will probably be your best bet if you're looking for a solo run with the anafuse.
1-andro by itself tends to cause lethargy, but combining it with 4 andro, and/or one of the two aforementioned Andros, and that would make a good stack.
I think as long as you have on cycle support and your PCT all lined up, both of which can just be over-the-counter stuff, you should be fine in avoiding the lethargy.
There's no guarantee.
That in mind, based on what you said I'd look to Androsterone or Epiandrosterone.
Both convert to DHT and ultimately stanolone, but the androsterone has more anti-estrogenic properties than the epiandrosterone. Just Google the differences and see which one lines up with what you want.
Those will probably be your best bet if you're looking for a solo run with the anafuse.
1-andro by itself tends to cause lethargy, but combining it with 4 andro, and/or one of the two aforementioned Andros, and that would make a good stack.
I think as long as you have on cycle support and your PCT all lined up, both of which can just be over-the-counter stuff, you should be fine in avoiding the lethargy.
Spartan lean
New member
I am 44 and just came off my first cycle. It was 8 weeks epiandro at 300 mg a day the first 4 weeks. I felt great on that. After 4 weeks I added in 1 andro at 300mg a day and upped the epiandro to 750 mg a day. I hit some lethargy during week 7 I believe. It was nothing my pre workout couldn't help push through. The lethargy lasted about 5 days for me then it was about one week until my cycle ended.
You might want to try a light epiandro run by itself to see how you fell on it. Like I said at 300 I felt great and lost a few pounds of fat while gaining about the same in muscle. Good luck.
You might want to try a light epiandro run by itself to see how you fell on it. Like I said at 300 I felt great and lost a few pounds of fat while gaining about the same in muscle. Good luck.
Joe12
Active member
I've ran 1&epi and also ran 19&epi. Personly, I found 19&epi much better, test was high the entire time and I didn't have lethargy... when I ran 1 I lost my sex drive, it really sucked and I won't touch the stuff again. EPI could be a good solo run, but I would stack it with nor-19 and would go with Olympus Labs. Here is a layout that should be mild.
Epi 500 - week 1-2
Epi 750 - week 3-4
Epi 1000 - week 5-8 (or stay at 750)
Nor-19 - 2 pills per day - week 1-4
Nor-19 -3 pills per day - week 5-8
Epi 500 - week 1-2
Epi 750 - week 3-4
Epi 1000 - week 5-8 (or stay at 750)
Nor-19 - 2 pills per day - week 1-4
Nor-19 -3 pills per day - week 5-8
ELROCK
Well-known member
How were your results with the Sup3r-19 run?
Joe12
Active member
The epi keep my test high, I had veins popping out that I didn't know I had, and my strength jumped up a fair amount. I was eating just slightly above maintenance and I went up about 6lbs, but also dropped a little fat.
I should also mention, it seemed like it took a little time for the 19 to kick in.... it was around week 3ish.
I should also mention, it seemed like it took a little time for the 19 to kick in.... it was around week 3ish.
nubioso
Active member
I would seriously put a lot of thought before taking a 19 Nor. The suppression from those is far greater from any of the others.
However, one big thing to know is all the varied stories on here.
Joe12 said epi+1andro gave him lethargy and no sex drive where as I was the complete opposite. He says that the Epi plus 19 Nor gave him great sex drive and libido, and once again I was the exact opposite.
Just driving home the fact that we can sit here and tell you all day about the possibilities, but no one will really know how it will affect you until you run it. So many variables including what your current test is at, free test, estrogen, prolactin, are you on any medications that are affecting dopamine, serotonin, norepinephrine, Etc
I ran trest which is a methylated 19nor and it shut me down hard. I literally felt it destroy my libido within 30 minutes of taking the first dose LOL
EDIT: Also, I should clarify, if you're going to run longer than 4 weeks and start getting into 8 or more....then you will really want to invest in a SERM. ESPECIALLY if you are going to do a 19-nor. You will need the SERM to restart your balls.
OTC PCT is not a popular opinion. In my experience, you can get away with it 1. if you do a short cycle and 2. it's not super strong methylated compounds and whatnot.
However, I'd always rather have it on hand than not, just in case.
However, one big thing to know is all the varied stories on here.
Joe12 said epi+1andro gave him lethargy and no sex drive where as I was the complete opposite. He says that the Epi plus 19 Nor gave him great sex drive and libido, and once again I was the exact opposite.
Just driving home the fact that we can sit here and tell you all day about the possibilities, but no one will really know how it will affect you until you run it. So many variables including what your current test is at, free test, estrogen, prolactin, are you on any medications that are affecting dopamine, serotonin, norepinephrine, Etc
I ran trest which is a methylated 19nor and it shut me down hard. I literally felt it destroy my libido within 30 minutes of taking the first dose LOL
EDIT: Also, I should clarify, if you're going to run longer than 4 weeks and start getting into 8 or more....then you will really want to invest in a SERM. ESPECIALLY if you are going to do a 19-nor. You will need the SERM to restart your balls.
OTC PCT is not a popular opinion. In my experience, you can get away with it 1. if you do a short cycle and 2. it's not super strong methylated compounds and whatnot.
However, I'd always rather have it on hand than not, just in case.
Joe12
Active member
nubioso I agree, sometime you have to just roll the dice and see how the product will treat you. One thing for sure is andro 1 is more anabolic then 19. I think we could all agree thou that a solo EPI run would be as mild as he can get. However, without stacking it, he won't get the same results we exspericed, but it would certainly get him over the hump with some lean gains.
nubioso
Active member
Indeed the 1 is, but the 1 also has far more androgenic activity than the 19-nor which I think helps to even things out instead of full suppression. However, I do always try to stress, no matter what, there WILL be suppression.
Also, I do completely agree with the epi being the most mild. Solo run of epi will probably make you feel great and wanna bang everything with a pulse. =P
Spartan lean
New member
I am really new to this but I can definitely tell you what I did and it worked out well for me. Fell free to pm me and I can explain anything in further detail.
1. Everything I've ever read says cycle support is a good idea regardless of how mild your cycle is. I used one.
2. I ran mine for about 8 weeks with no issues but remember you can always cut it short if you feel you need to.
While I did have daa in my PCT (not sure it helps based on some research papers) I also ran a completely separate over the counter PCT as well as research Nolva. Have all of your stuff on hand BEFORE you start the cycle.
3. I don't have enough experience on this one but I used Sparta nutrition and it worked well for me. There are tons of other ones out their I'm sure some of the guys can chime in with their opinions. I see a bunch of good reviews for Olympus Labs.
4. If your diet and exercise are on point you could probably get 5 lb of muscle and lose 5 pounds of fat. Maybe more maybe less. That's about what I got.
Just remember everybody reacts differently to different compounds. Good luck. Hit me up if you want any more detailed information
1. Everything I've ever read says cycle support is a good idea regardless of how mild your cycle is. I used one.
2. I ran mine for about 8 weeks with no issues but remember you can always cut it short if you feel you need to.
While I did have daa in my PCT (not sure it helps based on some research papers) I also ran a completely separate over the counter PCT as well as research Nolva. Have all of your stuff on hand BEFORE you start the cycle.
3. I don't have enough experience on this one but I used Sparta nutrition and it worked well for me. There are tons of other ones out their I'm sure some of the guys can chime in with their opinions. I see a bunch of good reviews for Olympus Labs.
4. If your diet and exercise are on point you could probably get 5 lb of muscle and lose 5 pounds of fat. Maybe more maybe less. That's about what I got.
Just remember everybody reacts differently to different compounds. Good luck. Hit me up if you want any more detailed information
Joe12
Active member
Everyone is different, but I think a couple lbs, with a couple lbs of fat lose, endurance jump, and some strength gains towards the end. Honestly, don't exspect anything mind blowing. You won't look like Arnold, but it will push you beyond natty.
nubioso
Active member
Spartan Lean has pretty good info so I'm basically just going to be repeating what he said:
Well Ive made up my mind. I'm going to run Epi solo. Questions:
1.Doi I need cycle support
Yes you do. Even a 'mild' prohormone will guaranteed raise your blood pressure and you will get headaches. Hell, realistically, something like Blockade is just overall good for you anytime.
2. Can I run it for 8 weeks and PCT with DAA
8 weeks yes. PCT with an actual PCT product that has DAA in it like Sup3r-PCT. Also, like Spartan mentioned, have a SERM on hand. Better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it
3. What manufacturers are quality
Dark Carnival by Vicious Labs. Invalid Link Removed is good. So is Hardrock Supplements which is exclusively on strongsupplementshop.com which is a sponsor here. Those are the 2 I'm personally familiar with and know are good.
4. What can I expect for results.
Depends on a lot of things. Increased libido, aggression, energy. Muscle hardening effect. Combined with solid training and diet you can expect to have body recomp effects. It is not a miracle pill, and it is not a hardcore anabolic steroid so don't expect dramatic effects in terms of putting on crazy amounts of muscle and strength.
Well Ive made up my mind. I'm going to run Epi solo. Questions:
1.Doi I need cycle support
Yes you do. Even a 'mild' prohormone will guaranteed raise your blood pressure and you will get headaches. Hell, realistically, something like Blockade is just overall good for you anytime.
2. Can I run it for 8 weeks and PCT with DAA
8 weeks yes. PCT with an actual PCT product that has DAA in it like Sup3r-PCT. Also, like Spartan mentioned, have a SERM on hand. Better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it
3. What manufacturers are quality
Dark Carnival by Vicious Labs. Invalid Link Removed is good. So is Hardrock Supplements which is exclusively on strongsupplementshop.com which is a sponsor here. Those are the 2 I'm personally familiar with and know are good.
4. What can I expect for results.
Depends on a lot of things. Increased libido, aggression, energy. Muscle hardening effect. Combined with solid training and diet you can expect to have body recomp effects. It is not a miracle pill, and it is not a hardcore anabolic steroid so don't expect dramatic effects in terms of putting on crazy amounts of muscle and strength.
bigsmall
Banned
I found 1 andro with 4 andro and epi andro was too harsh: total shutown, lethargic even with tons of 4 andro and epi-andro and a lower dose of 1-andro, depressed as all hell. I am now one month in to Olympus Labs Endurashred (Osta 20mg with GW 501516 14mg per day) and 1000mg of Olympus labs epi-andro. No lethargy, no shutdown, cutting nicely, tons of endurance and strength. Running the Endurashred 3 months and started the epi-andro 2 weeks in and will run until end of Endurashred. For PCT, I have pharm grade clomid which I will run probably lightly as I have zero shutdown (25, 12.5, 12.5, 12.5). I will add DAA, Longjack and Folidrone 2.0. PM me for any questions - this stack is working better than the
Joe12
Active member
I have no idea, I'm already bald LOL
Joe12
Active member
Yea man that 1 andro jacked me up as well, tightened my nuts up from the 3rd day and tanked my sex drive. Does the same thing to a lot of people on this forum.
khall1974
Well-known member
I totally agree with you. I ran 1, epi and 4...felt like absolute garbage after week 4. I felt lethargic and shutdown. It was my first experience with ED.
nubioso
Active member
Really just depends on how predisposed you are to it. Sounds like you're already experiencing a little hair loss then I'd say yeah, it definitely has the potential to make it worse. You'd want to stay away from things that convert to DHT....which epi does. However, it sounds like you've got a couple things in place to at least minimize the effects.
Stldave
New member
I will be 42 next month, also competed up through August as a natural. Was looking for something to push me further. I am in my fourth week of running conqurium from Phytohealth. Exceptionally pleased with the results thus far. I am up just over five pounds with no fat gain, was still very lean when I started. My lifts are very intense, vascularity is insane. Libido? I am like a teenager all over again. The wife said she will need to find another gal to give her a break, haha!
I am also running their phytochem cycle support, five double strength fish oil per day, cissus, turmeric with biopreen, six grams of taurine, and a very clean "bulking" nutrition plan.
I have a six week cycle laid out with the first week at 50 mg per day, the remaining five weeks at 75 grams per day.
Will for sure run again after the beginning of the year to prep for my first open show.
I am also running their phytochem cycle support, five double strength fish oil per day, cissus, turmeric with biopreen, six grams of taurine, and a very clean "bulking" nutrition plan.
I have a six week cycle laid out with the first week at 50 mg per day, the remaining five weeks at 75 grams per day.
Will for sure run again after the beginning of the year to prep for my first open show.
bigsmall
Banned
You got a SERM lined up for PCT, right?
Stldave
New member
I will be running the phenomenal from them, purchased the pro stack. My coach said that should be more than fine with the relatively short cycle and modest dosing.
With that said, if it is not enough, she has more traditional serms on the ready.
bigsmall
Banned
phenomenal is not enough - cause it does not include a real SERM. Your taking Haladrol - you need a SERM 100% no question. Don't play or allow someone to ever play with your hormones. No SERM / No cycle ever. Especially at 41 yrs of age and especially with Haladrol. Keep your gains and restore your hormones properly / don't risk your health please. Good luck.
Stldave
New member
Thank you brother, it is greatly appreciated. Clomid is on the way.
muscleskillz
New member
Yo, how did it all go? What gains and after effects did you experience? Did the Clomid help?
Cgkone
Well-known member
Just saw this
Hey how does that halo effect strength?
Buckocean
New member
If you are posting in this thread, I'll assume you are over 40 if you haven't said already. If you're getting drive-in theatre sized forehead first you should consider age followed by genetics (dad, grandpa, brothers, even mothers, etc). Next, PHs will excel temporary hair loss. If you've got good genetics it's coming back. I'm 41, had clumps of hair come out in the shower but when I let it grow out for 6 months it's thick and full.
On a separate note, sides are sides. Everyone gets them. Some more than others, but no cycle goes by easy. I'm not one to spook people or play Trapper John, but I hate it when people quit a few weeks in. Just expect the things everyone says and if you get them, deal with them. Be prepared.