4 AD + Epistane dosage

SouthPawSD

Active member
so planning my cycle for later this next year and I am planning on running Epistane and 4ad. However, I cant seem to find a what a good dosage would be for each. Well mostly the 4ad. I am almost 100% sure epistane is ran at 30-60mg/day, but I have seen a huge range for 4ad from 375mg to 1.5g. What would be best for the cycle? I plan to run for 6 weeks and this will be my second cycle.
 
It depends what you want/expect from the 4ad... if you're just using it as test base, then you can keep it on the low end (300-500); if you want it to be a true builder, you need to go up to the 800-1000 range. IMO, I would use it jsut as a base and run the epi at 45 or so and let it do the work.

what's your plan for supports and pct?
 
booneman77 said:
It depends what you want/expect from the 4ad... if you're just using it as test base, then you can keep it on the low end (300-500); if you want it to be a true builder, you need to go up to the 800-1000 range. IMO, I would use it jsut as a base and run the epi at 45 or so and let it do the work.

what's your plan for supports and pct?
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Great info thank you. I was planning just as test base. I'm doing a recomp so I'll probably go with 500/45.

Lol I knew someone would ask about PCT and support. Should of just posted it haha but good to know people cover all bases. I'll be using armicare pro on cycle and PCT. Super PCT and clomid 50/50/25/25. Will have exemestane on hand, but I am not expecting to have to use it.
 
SouthPawSD said:
Great info thank you. I was planning just as test base. I'm doing a recomp so I'll probably go with 500/45.

Lol I knew someone would ask about PCT and support. Should of just posted it haha but good to know people cover all bases. I'll be using armicare pro on cycle and PCT. Super PCT and clomid 50/50/25/25. Will have exemestane on hand, but I am not expecting to have to use it.
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Sounds good! only thing I would suggest is to add some additional tudca (theres only 250mg in ACP IIRC and I would go 500 with a methyl like epi and a second compound) and reduce xt for cortisol control in pct.

I imagine you wont need the ai on cycle as epi is a mild ai and your 4 dose will be low but pct keep an eye out as rebound estro is a real bear to deal with if it sneaks up on you (usually VERY late or even post pct).
 
booneman77 said:
Sounds good! only thing I would suggest is to add some additional tudca (theres only 250mg in ACP IIRC and I would go 500 with a methyl like epi and a second compound) and reduce xt for cortisol control in pct.

I imagine you wont need the ai on cycle as epi is a mild ai and your 4 dose will be low but pct keep an eye out as rebound estro is a real bear to deal with if it sneaks up on you (usually VERY late or even post pct).
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Great advice. I'm pretty new so hard to keep straight what people recommend with other compounds haha. I have some reduce xt on hand always usually. What about 7 Keto? Would that work as well?

Ya I am starting to experience it post PCT and having to deal with it ATM so I'll definitely on the cautious side. Main reason I'm not doing a trest yet, and not sure if I want to do it with flare up on a mild cycle. Still need to learn more like always!
 
SouthPawSD said:
Great advice. I'm pretty new so hard to keep straight what people recommend with other compounds haha. I have some reduce xt on hand always usually. What about 7 Keto? Would that work as well?

Ya I am starting to experience it post PCT and having to deal with it ATM so I'll definitely on the cautious side. Main reason I'm not doing a trest yet, and not sure if I want to do it with flare up on a mild cycle. Still need to learn more like always!
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Trest is an absolute bear. Awesome, but gotta be super careful with that guy ha.
 
If I was going to run 4 Andro, I would look for a transdermal version...much more efficient and makes up for the short half life.

another great option for an Epistane test base is dermacrine!
 
IconicForm said:
If I was going to run 4 Andro, I would look for a transdermal version...much more efficient and makes up for the short half life.

another great option for an Epistane test base is dermacrine!
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You talking 4 AD or 4 andro/dhea? I didn't know they made TD for them. Would you happen to know how much better absorbtion would be? Or brands to try?

I've thought about dermacrine as well, but got the 4AD for a good price.
 
SouthPawSD said:
You talking 4 AD or 4 andro/dhea? I didn't know they made TD for them. Would you happen to know how much better absorbtion would be? Or brands to try?

I've thought about dermacrine as well, but got the 4AD for a good price.
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Oops, I was talking 4-andro/dhea. You can still find the Alpha Gainz 4-Andro TD V2 at some retailers (NP still lists it in stock) . Absorption rate, I'm not sure, but for non-methylated compounds, it should be considerably better. Additionally, I'm not sure of the half life of 4-DHEA, but I imagine it's pretty short, transdermal delivery would eliminate the need to take multiple pills throughout the day. That's also why products like blackstone labs brutal 4ce have 3 different versions of 4-dhea: one ester free and then two other esters...to buffer the release. I believe Iron Legion says salvo buffers delivery over 6-8 hours, meaning you don't have to worry about that (the transdermal carrier used by Alpha Gainz).
 
IconicForm said:
Oops, I was talking 4-andro/dhea. You can still find the Alpha Gainz 4-Andro TD V2 at some retailers (NP still lists it in stock) . Absorption rate, I'm not sure, but for non-methylated compounds, it should be considerably better. Additionally, I'm not sure of the half life of 4-DHEA, but I imagine it's pretty short, transdermal delivery would eliminate the need to take multiple pills throughout the day. That's also why products like blackstone labs brutal 4ce have 3 different versions of 4-dhea: one ester free and then two other esters...to buffer the release. I believe Iron Legion says salvo buffers delivery over 6-8 hours, meaning you don't have to worry about that (the transdermal carrier used by Alpha Gainz).
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Ah ok good info here thanks. Even with TD, 4 AD> 4 andro/dhea TD correct? Like in terms of strength you could say.
 
Not to hijack this thread, butI was planning a similar Cycle soon and have both Brutal 4ce and Andro the giant on hand to run with epi, but debating which one to run as the test base or if i should just combine both to get more of an effect.

I was going to do a 4 week cycle
Epi 40/40/40/40mg.
ATG 330/330/330/330mg
And or
B4ce 130/130/130/130mg

I hope that helps a little bit.

My only concern would be if taking aromasin or androsta every day or every other day be nessecary tho? I imagine if i combined the 2 it would be but i dont know if i shoud take
Estro Strike 2.0 ( androsta) every day
Or exestane (aromasin) every other?
 
Nkwhit said:
Not to hijack this thread, butI was planning a similar Cycle soon and have both Brutal 4ce and Andro the giant on hand to run with epi, but debating which one to run as the test base or if i should just combine both to get more of an effect.

I was going to do a 4 week cycle
Epi 40/40/40/40mg.
ATG 330/330/330/330mg
And or
B4ce 130/130/130/130mg

I hope that helps a little bit.

My only concern would be if taking aromasin or androsta every day or every other day be nessecary tho? I imagine if i combined the 2 it would be but i dont know if i shoud take
Estro Strike 2.0 ( androsta) every day
Or exestane (aromasin) every other?
Click to expand...

You only want to take aromisin if gyno shows up, conversion isn’t massive on 4-andro and epistane is anti estrogenic anyway so imo I doubt you’d need it unless your prone to gyno sides.

Definitely have on hand but don’t use for no reason or you might crash your e
 
Whisky said:
You only want to take aromisin if gyno shows up, conversion isn’t massive on 4-andro and epistane is anti estrogenic anyway so imo I doubt you’d need it unless your prone to gyno sides.

Definitely have on hand but don’t use for no reason or you might crash your e
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there is likely no need to run an AI with 4-DHEA, but do not make the mistake of believing Epistane acts as an AI. Epistane does not convert to estrogen, but it also does not convert to DHT...despite it being 5a reduced. epiandro or androsterone, on the other hand, will convert to DHT and have a high affinity to the ER, blocking estrogen at the receptor site.

Additionally, 4-DHEA will also convert to DHT, thus part of it's benefit.

So, if you want to dry things out a little and enjoy some added benefits, I would add in some epiandro or androsterone to the mix, without worrying about an AI.

My recommendation on that front would be either Androhard by Muscle Gelz or Alpha Andro by Alpha Gainz. Alpha Gainz is considerably cheaper and I like the carrier used, but there are many users who really like Androhard. If you run androsterone in transdermal, I would recommend you start at 200mg/day
 
Nkwhit said:
Not to hijack this thread, butI was planning a similar Cycle soon and have both Brutal 4ce and Andro the giant on hand to run with epi, but debating which one to run as the test base or if i should just combine both to get more of an effect.

I was going to do a 4 week cycle
Epi 40/40/40/40mg.
ATG 330/330/330/330mg
And or
B4ce 130/130/130/130mg

I hope that helps a little bit.

My only concern would be if taking aromasin or androsta every day or every other day be nessecary tho? I imagine if i combined the 2 it would be but i dont know if i shoud take
Estro Strike 2.0 ( androsta) every day
Or exestane (aromasin) every other?
Click to expand...
I don't think you need to plan to take an AI all the time, I would just monitor it and see what happens. You can always take it if you start to feel your nipples hurt lol.

Id probably just do the Epi +4 andro. You could add the ATG if you wanted to be a little more dry, but I personally would think the Epistane would keep you dry enough on that. Also I don't know if your open to it, I would run the cycle for 6 weeks. I felt like I didn't notice the benefit from the 4andro until week 3 1/2. I imagine it would still work for 4 weeks, but just my experience with it.

I was also under the impression that 4andro was best at 330mg-550mg. I haven't heard of anyone only usin 130mg/day even for a test base of 4andro. So I personally would bump that up to 330mg. Maybe someone with a little more knowledge can chime in?


IconicForm said:
there is likely no need to run an AI with 4-DHEA, but do not make the mistake of believing Epistane acts as an AI. Epistane does not convert to estrogen, but it also does not convert to DHT...despite it being 5a reduced. epiandro or androsterone, on the other hand, will convert to DHT and have a high affinity to the ER, blocking estrogen at the receptor site.

Additionally, 4-DHEA will also convert to DHT, thus part of it's benefit.

So, if you want to dry things out a little and enjoy some added benefits, I would add in some epiandro or androsterone to the mix, without worrying about an AI.

My recommendation on that front would be either Androhard by Muscle Gelz or Alpha Andro by Alpha Gainz. Alpha Gainz is considerably cheaper and I like the carrier used, but there are many users who really like Androhard. If you run androsterone in transdermal, I would recommend you start at 200mg/day
Click to expand...
 
IconicForm said:
yeah, I've not tried any of these lower dosed versions. I ran 4-dhea 225-300mg transdermally and it was great!
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How does TD work compared to oral? Just curious how it goes as when I did 4andro only did oral. Had no idea TD was a thing for 4 andro lol
 
The brutal 4ce is dosed at 65mg a pill it says twice a day soo thats where i got 130mg. It has the 3 versions of it in there soo i think they claim the synergy between them makes it just as potent...???
I figured if i stacked it on top of the andro the giant thats 3x 110mg pills daily (330mg total), I would be at about 460mg of 4 andro.
 
IconicForm said:
there is likely no need to run an AI with 4-DHEA, but do not make the mistake of believing Epistane acts as an AI. Epistane does not convert to estrogen, but it also does not convert to DHT...despite it being 5a reduced. epiandro or androsterone, on the other hand, will convert to DHT and have a high affinity to the ER, blocking estrogen at the receptor site.

Additionally, 4-DHEA will also convert to DHT, thus part of it's benefit.

So, if you want to dry things out a little and enjoy some added benefits, I would add in some epiandro or androsterone to the mix, without worrying about an AI.

My recommendation on that front would be either Androhard by Muscle Gelz or Alpha Andro by Alpha Gainz. Alpha Gainz is considerably cheaper and I like the carrier used, but there are many users who really like Androhard. If you run androsterone in transdermal, I would recommend you start at 200mg/day
Click to expand...

I completely agree epi isn’t an ai, point I was making was simply that it’s link to mepitiostane (which is clinically used because of anti estro properties) gives a solid logic that it too will have some anti estro properties. That combined with the relatively low conversion of 4-andro makes it even less likely that an ai would be needed, and you certainly wouldn’t want to run one without gyno having flared up....just dont want the brother crashing his e....
 
Do you think dosing an AI every other day or few days would be advisable? Almost like pulsing? I have aromasin and and otc Ai on hand. Maybe the weaker of the 2?

Idk just an idea but i think ill just see how my body reacts.
 
Nkwhit said:
Do you think dosing an AI every other day or few days would be advisable? Almost like pulsing? I have aromasin and and otc Ai on hand. Maybe the weaker of the 2?

Idk just an idea but i think ill just see how my body reacts.
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IMO definitely not advisable, you need estrogen to build muscle, taking any ai (even otc although that’s not likely to do much) would potentially just crash estrogen too low in this stack. If you were using something with higher conversion etc then yeah sure but not on this stack bro.
 
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