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4-ad cypionate and 19-nor cypionate

RVEXLER

New member
Kilo sports is/was offering both of these products in powder form. Is that so they can be made injectable? If so, would you use a typical oil-based kit and what concentration (200 mg/ml)?
 
Chemo is supposed to be working out a deal with Kilo to get some powder and do some testing with it. I am not sure how far he has progressed in getting any. I know he was interested in getting the 4-AD but not sure on the 19-Nor. I saw it on their website as well. Chemo or LG can help you out with this one.
 
Originally posted by DarCSA
Chemo or LG can help you out with this one.
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Shooooot...I'm now getting volunteered for my services...this is a first ;)

 

anyway...

yeah Chemo is attempting to get his hands on some of that 4-AD cyp for research purposes only...and, hey I dont blame him it is a good idea..I might try a little bit of this myself in my lab (aka my bedroom :p )....heheh 4-AD suspension for site enhancement..hehe...that might hurt a little :eek: j/k...I wont inject for a while (about 2 more years or so)

 

Chemo is that man to ask...not me ;)

 

LG. :cool: 
 
Originally posted by RVEXLER
Kilo sports is/was offering both of these products in powder form. Is that so they can be made injectable? If so, would you use a typical oil-based kit and what concentration (200 mg/ml)?
Click to expand...

As soon as the powders get in I'll have a few hundred grams for the typical experimentation.  Most likely I would mix a 250 mg/mL for starters and move my way up to 400-600.  Also, the recipe should be around 1% BA, 5% BB, and the rest cottonseed oil.

Chemo
 
Is that the cypionate versions?

1Fast400 said:
If you run low and need more, let me know
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Does your generous offer apply to everybody? And, are you talking about the cypionated versions of 4-ad and 19-nor?
 
CYP in stock @ Kilosports

CYP is in @ Kilosports. Does anyone know the purity?

Subj: Re: KiloSports Contact: In Stock Now ?
Date: 2/16/03 7:37:56 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Sent from the Internet (Details)



yes

>====================================
>KiloSports Contact: In Stock Now ?
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Contact Name: Steve XXXX
>Contact Email: [email protected]
>
>Message: Do you have the 4-ANDROSTENEDIOL CYPIONATE in stock now?
>
>Thanks
 
Yep, 4-ad cyp is back in stock. Ordered 20 grams for myself today. Suggest that anybody else that is interested order some ASAP as the last batch ran out in several days.
 
Just a little warning. Animal used Kilosports 4AD cyp and got a bad case of the "flu". He believes it came from the low purity (93%).

Has anyone else done the Kilosports 4AD cyp ?
 
I never used the Kilosports 4ad cyp, I think their prices for it are alittle high, but a gym buddy of mine used it and he never had any bad reactions to it. He made good gains off of it also.
 
nsruffryder34 said:
I never used the Kilosports 4ad cyp, I think their prices for it are alittle high, but a gym buddy of mine used it and he never had any bad reactions to it. He made good gains off of it also.
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Do you know how many mg/ml he used?

Also, how often and how much he shot?
 
PROGRESS REPORT - 4 AD CYP.

Made my own injectable 4-ad cypionate. The concentration was 250mg/ml. Have been doing 500 mg twice weekly injections since last monday. Injections are painless. It will probably be about another week before I notice any big differences.
 
Re: PROGRESS REPORT - 4 AD CYP.

Originally posted by RVEXLER
Made my own injectable 4-ad cypionate. The concentration was 250mg/ml. Have been doing 500 mg twice weekly injections since last monday. Injections are painless. It will probably be about another week before I notice any big differences.
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Update?  Recipe?
 
Sorry about the delay in getting back to you all. What happened is that I received my awaited shipment of (ahem... ) not so legal supplements after two weeks of doing the 4-AD cypionate. So, I put the 4-AD on hold for the time being (next 10 weeks). What I did notice is that the effect is basically the same as for transdermal 4-AD, but with the benefit of only having to have to administer twice a week. No side effects that were unanticipated (e.g. the "flu" that others were talking about).

Here was the "recipe" I used for 40 ml @250mg/ml:

5% benzyl alcohol (2cc)
5% benzyl benzoate (2cc)
10 grams 4-Ad cypionate

1) fill clean tube with 40 cc of water. Mark water line, empty and dry.

2) Add 4-AD cypionate to tube. Add benzyl alcohol and benzyl benzoate. Put top on tube and shake. Add sterile oil until you reach the 40 cc mark drawn earlier.

3) Place tube in pan of water on stove with top off of tube. Heat and gently swirl tube until liquid turns clear (it will start off as very thick and milky). Remove from heat and allow to cool slightly.

4) Filter into sterile sealed vial using whatman .4 filter.

5) When cool, liquid will turn milky white again.
 
If you upped the BB to 10% do you think you could get closer to 500mg/ml?

Does too much BB cause pain or is it only too much BA?

Also, like to know BDC thoughts on this as well.

Thanks
 
SteveDFW said:
If you upped the BB to 10% do you think you could get closer to 500mg/ml?

Does too much BB cause pain or is it only too much BA?

Also, like to know BDC thoughts on this as well.

Thanks
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Possibly. But at 250mg/ml it is already a fairly thick solution; so you might be able to get a higher concentration but it would be pretty difficult to inject. And from what I understand, the BA is what causes the pain on initial injection, not the BB.
 
RVEXLER said:


Possibly. But at 250mg/ml it is already a fairly thick solution; so you might be able to get a higher concentration but it would be pretty difficult to inject. And from what I understand, the BA is what causes the pain on initial injection, not the BB.
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Your recipe went thru a 25gauge needle with no problems, correct?
 
pardon my possible ignorance, but besides legal reasons, which in reality injecting 4ad is illegal anway so there really are no legal differences, why would anybody want to inject a prohormone, i understand the benfit of PH's to bodybuilders not wanting to make the leap, but injecting already implies that leap in my opinion, if you are going to inject why not just buy real gear???
 
SteveDFW said:


Your recipe went thru a 25gauge needle with no problems, correct?
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I would draw it up with an 18 gauge needle into the syringe and then switch to a 25 gauge needle for injecting. It would take about 30-45 seconds, and a lot of pressure on the plunger, to get it to go in.
 
captainbicept said:
pardon my possible ignorance, but besides legal reasons, which in reality injecting 4ad is illegal anway so there really are no legal differences, why would anybody want to inject a prohormone, i understand the benfit of PH's to bodybuilders not wanting to make the leap, but injecting already implies that leap in my opinion, if you are going to inject why not just buy real gear???
Click to expand...

Good questions. Here are my thoughts:

"injecting 4ad is illegal" - I don't think it is. Selling an injectable version of 4-AD would bring you under the jurisdiction of the FDA, but injecting a legal substance is not illegal.

"why would anybody want to inject a prohormone" - Twice weekly administration (with the cypionate version of 4-AD) versus twice daily, and greatly improved bio-availability.
 
Add 5 ccs of benzyl alcohol to 95 ccs of vegetable oil (corn, sesame, or peanut). Mix well

Heat oil to 130 - 140 degrees fahrenheit

Add 11.5 grams of 4-AD cypionate and mix until a clear solution is obtained

Pass hot oil solution through syringe filter ( 0.45 or 0.1 micron) and into clean vial or glass container.

Seal container

Should provide around 105-110 ccs of approximately 100mg per cc 4-AD cyp in oil
 
RVEXLER said:


Good questions. Here are my thoughts:

"injecting 4ad is illegal" - I don't think it is. Selling an injectable version of 4-AD would bring you under the jurisdiction of the FDA, but injecting a legal substance is not illegal.

"why would anybody want to inject a prohormone" - Twice weekly administration (with the cypionate version of 4-AD) versus twice daily, and greatly improved bio-availability.
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actually once the prohormone is turned into an injectable form it is illegal, you can have all the powders and supplies to make the injectables in your possession as long as it has not been converted, once converted it is just as illegal as real cypionate. which is why i dont understand why ppl wouldnt just inject real cyp. which is 2x weekly injections still and will obviously be more effective than the prohormone, i just see it as if you are taking the leap to inject using an illegal product why not just use the real more effective one, the only "selling point" which i can see is that you can attain all the supplies legaly and readilly.
 
1Fast400 said:
Add 5 ccs of benzyl alcohol to 95 ccs of vegetable oil (corn, sesame, or peanut). Mix well

Heat oil to 130 - 140 degrees fahrenheit

Add 11.5 grams of 4-AD cypionate and mix until a clear solution is obtained

Pass hot oil solution through syringe filter ( 0.45 or 0.1 micron) and into clean vial or glass container.

Seal container

Should provide around 105-110 ccs of approximately 100mg per cc 4-AD cyp in oil
Click to expand...

You would have to inject twice as much as RVEXLER's recipe.
 
1Fast400 said:
Add 5 ccs of benzyl alcohol to 95 ccs of vegetable oil (corn, sesame, or peanut). Mix well

Heat oil to 130 - 140 degrees fahrenheit

Add 11.5 grams of 4-AD cypionate and mix until a clear solution is obtained

Pass hot oil solution through syringe filter ( 0.45 or 0.1 micron) and into clean vial or glass container.

Seal container

Should provide around 105-110 ccs of approximately 100mg per cc 4-AD cyp in oil
Click to expand...

At this concentration what would the best injection scheme be assuming you want to hit 700 mg a week of 4-AD.

Would it be 2 cc EOD or 1 cc ED.

Even better since it is in oil could you stretch it to say 3.5 cc 2 x week?
Not sure on the half life and absorbtion rate of this formula.
 
The whole idea of the "cyp" is to keep from doing ED or EOD. Once very 5 to 7 days enough.

Thats is why I was thinking the 250mg/ml is better suited.
 
Gotcha, the 250mg/ml seems awful high.

Chemo's thread about making a 4-AD inject was talking about 50 mg/ml.

If you can get it that high it is very good.
I could enjoy injecting 1 gr a week..... :D

Edit:
Never mind this post I was being stupid and reading an old thread also where Chemo was discussing a 50mg/ml mix from a friend. Thanks for pointing out my ignorance Steve
 
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captainbicept said:


actually once the prohormone is turned into an injectable form it is illegal, you can have all the powders and supplies to make the injectables in your possession as long as it has not been converted, once converted it is just as illegal as real cypionate. which is why i dont understand why ppl wouldnt just inject real cyp. which is 2x weekly injections still and will obviously be more effective than the prohormone, i just see it as if you are taking the leap to inject using an illegal product why not just use the real more effective one, the only "selling point" which i can see is that you can attain all the supplies legaly and readilly.
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There isn't NEAR as much legal risk with injecting prohormones, whether it is legal or not, mainly because you can legally order the supplies and it doesn't matter if you get caught going across the border with them or if people find them in the mail. With AAS, they are illegal in any way shape or form. (unless you have a rx) If you think about it, having illegal things in your house isnt as big of a deal as transporting them from place to place, something you wouldnt have to do if you injected prohormones.
 
With respect to 1fast's recipe post:

Very good but I would prefer 1% BA / 5% BB for the mix simply due to the fact that the cyp ester is plenty soluble to support 500 mg/mL without a co-colvent and the BA could be used as a true bacteriostatic agent.

Chemo
 
crap! i wish i wouldve tried to get it into a higher concentration i wussed out and stopped at 250mg/ml and now i shoot 2ml 2x a week which really isnt soo bad but 1ml a shot would be beter as my hands are not soo steady
 
2 mL twice per week is pretty standard...

Do tell your details: recipe, directions, observations, pain factor, and everything else.
 
come on guys

ok i think we all got the making of the substance down, hell i want to know the gains made off this little project, anyone who has done the ****, please post gains(weight increase, and strenght increase) as well as your current diet. Someone i know has done at least three weeks of it right?
 
going into my "project" as we speak :)

just mixed mine up and going to be running it through the whatman filter soon
 
guess ill post it in this one too..

well i just did an experiment with 4-ad cyp yesterday..

14 grams 4ad cyp
3mls BA
6mls BB
41 mls Oil

the 4ad disolved easily in the BA/BB mixture
once that was done put it in bottle with 41 mls oil
placed bottle in boiling water for 20 minutes
filtered hot mixture through wathman .45 filter into sealed 50ml bottle
yeild 280mg/ml
Im goin to cut it down some .. add another 50mls of oil .. it seems realy thick .. so it will be around 140mg/ml
 
Melissa at Lemelange will have USP cottonseed oil to help with these experiments ;) Beats sesame oil hands down...

Chemo
 
ok i used the recipe that was posted here using researchkits 4g kit and it was SUPER simple to do took me 1/2 hr tops and that was w/ re-reading the directions 1000 times to make sure i didnt mess anything up

NO PAIN after injection at all no soreness no nothing no marks either

next time i think i will try 23g needle instead of 25 because like i said i have a shaky ass hand and its a bit hard to keep the needle steady but i really dont think it is making a difference (Read no pain)

i am now heating up the syringe under water for a bit and that is helping

i will post more results when im not at work :)

BTW if anyone doesnt want to post PLEASE PM me to share some details!
 
Let me tell y'all what scares me. And I have no qualms about admitting this, so feel free to call me a woman, ease my fears, or what have you.

The idea of injecting myself scares the **** out of me. It's not the pain that concerns me, it's the other things, like hitting and damaging a major nerve, injecting a bubble into myself unknowingly, injecting into an artery unknowingly, or something else that could cause a serious problem.

Let's hear it.
 
SirSavageX said:
Let me tell y'all what scares me. And I have no qualms about admitting this, so feel free to call me a woman, ease my fears, or what have you.

The idea of injecting myself scares the **** out of me. It's not the pain that concerns me, it's the other things, like hitting and damaging a major nerve, injecting a bubble into myself unknowingly, injecting into an artery unknowingly, or something else that could cause a serious problem.

Let's hear it.
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I have never heard of anyone hitting and damaging a major nerve. The needles are just too thin. Since the injections are IM (into the muscle) as opposed to IV (into the vein) then embolism's (air-bubbles) are not a problem. If you aspirate, then you won't every inject into a vein or artery and even those who have have survived the experience. Honestly, the biggest risk is that of an infection due to less than sanitary procedures used by many.
 
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SirSavageX said:

The idea of injecting myself scares the **** out of me. It's not the pain that concerns me, it's the other things, like hitting and damaging a major nerve, injecting a bubble into myself unknowingly, injecting into an artery unknowingly, or something else that could cause a serious problem.

Let's hear it.
Click to expand...

hey bro i hearya but its really not a big deal i had a lot more concerns than that b4 i started..

but to deal with your concerns the nerves can easily be avoided by going through the muscle slow you will easily feel it coming on and you can repoke.. this is what happened my first poke and was no big deal at alll

you would need 5ccs of air to do any damage ... use 3 cc syringes :)

and aspirating will avoid stop you from injecting into a vein/artery

not saying this to convince you one way or the other.

btw there are MANY juicers out there who have 1000+ injections and have never had a problem...
 
SSX,

Basic steps:
  • Prep site and pin
  • Enter at 90 degree angle in ONE STEADY MOTION. Stop and starts make for slight cramps later.
  • ASPIRATE by applying slight back pressure on the plunger. If you are doing this you have clearly not hit a nerve. As was said above, you'll know well before you come within an inch of the nerve. If you do not draw blood into the syringe barrel you are not in a vein or artery.
  • Inject SLOWLY and EVENLY. This is the key to soreness...after a while you'll get into a rythm of your own but very important at the beginning.
  • Don't lax on the hygience...apply pressure until the spot of blood does not appear on the boo-boo ;) If you use a 28 or 25 to pin you probably don't have to worry about this so much.
 
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