4-AD by AMS...any good?

[The Colonel 333]

subscribed

 

[robster11]

Any new updates?

 

[b unit]

personally i'm not expecting much!

i'm gonna stick with original products with original names!

 

[sixdeucer]

I will have to say I am almost through my first bottle. I can see and feel a difference now the stack that I am doing is pretty much all BSN products so I am not sure how the 4AD is actually working. But the stack that I am doing leaves me with good pumps and great recovery times. I will go in the gym and straight kill myself in hopes to wake up feeling like I got ran over the day before, but I don't. I just eat some food and go right back for another round. I have seen great improvements in definition as well. Does anyone have any specific questions? I will try to post some pictures on here in about 2-3 days, before and after

 

[Lawhammer]

Here is what we know so far:

Ya well right now I just started it yestarday....I am also about 4 weeks into a stack of CellMass, Nitrix and NO Xplode and now the 4-AD I have no idea if that is a wise choice...I guess we will see....if my heart starts to papitate and later lead to an explosion I will leave it in my "WILL" to get on here and let all you guys know. haha IRON UP

Almost forgot I am taking the (4) Nitrix pills on wake up at 6 and then eating taking (1) 4-AD with Breakfast...lift if possible....(4) Nitrix, (1) Scoop Cell-Mass... 45 Mins before Lunch...Lunch (1)4-AD...lift, (3) scoops NO-Xplode with lift...(1) Scoop Cell-Mass post Lift.....Dinner (1) 4-AD....relax...(4) Nitrix pills..sleep.

No offense, but scientifically speaking, it appears that this guy doesn't exactly make the best test subject. If he logs a gain, how would we know if it was from the 1AD and/or 4AD or instead from the cellmass, nitrix and no xplode?

The only affect that has been mentioned to date was an increase in libido and erections. However, that would be an expected result of taking nitrix and no xplode. So, there really is no way of knowing which supplement was causing that.

Don't get me wrong, I am certainly not against stacking different compunds for a desired approach. But I just think that for the purposes of getting to the bottom of whether this stuff works, we need more test subjects, and preferrably people taking ONLY 1ad and/or 4ad.

 

[sixdeucer]

Here is what we know so far:

Ya well right now I just started it yestarday....I am also about 4 weeks into a stack of CellMass, Nitrix and NO Xplode and now the 4-AD I have no idea if that is a wise choice...I guess we will see....if my heart starts to papitate and later lead to an explosion I will leave it in my "WILL" to get on here and let all you guys know. haha IRON UP

Almost forgot I am taking the (4) Nitrix pills on wake up at 6 and then eating taking (1) 4-AD with Breakfast...lift if possible....(4) Nitrix, (1) Scoop Cell-Mass... 45 Mins before Lunch...Lunch (1)4-AD...lift, (3) scoops NO-Xplode with lift...(1) Scoop Cell-Mass post Lift.....Dinner (1) 4-AD....relax...(4) Nitrix pills..sleep.

No offence, but scientifically speaking, it appears that this guy doesn't exactly make the best test subject. If he logs a gain, how would we know if it was from the 1AD and/or 4AD or instead from the cellmass, nitrix and no xplode?

The only affect that has been mentioned to date was an increase in libido and erections. However, that would be an expected result of taking nitrix and no xplode. So, there really is no way of knowing which supplement was causing that.

Don't get me wrong, I am certainly not against stacking different compunds for a desired approach. But I just think that for the purposes of getting to the bottom of whether this stuff works, we need more test subjects, and preferrably people taking ONLY 1ad and/or 4ad.

Good point!! All the supplements that I am taking are working great for me, which one is doing what is a different story. Anyone else??


You know to be totally honest with everyone. I was talking with my friend that lifts with me and all in all, my opinion, is that people get on these "supplements" and think they work but the big picture is you phyche yourself out so much mentally cause you are on these "supplements" that they really aren't doing a damn thing. It is your intensity you get from psyching yourself out and eating right that is building your body. Lets be real unless you are slamming a needle into yourself there isn't going to be much that compares, if anything at all. That is my opinon, can anyone add to that idea?? or disagree in someway with proof?

 

[pistonpump]

well creatine products go against what you just said they work and are proven. The effect you are talking about i think is the same as placebo. Supplements are just an extra ingredient to the pie in order to make the perfect pie. But, the perfect pie can still be made with less ingredients and hard work iMO.

 

[morpheus1914]

Ok. I think I might try one of these and try to settle some of the hoopla. Either of these is "supposed" to convert to 1-testosterone in the body, correct? Therefore, the body's free testosterone should be elevated as well correct? Would regular labs of free testosterone be beneficial to anyone? I can measure my baseline testosterone in my lab before I cycle of these products, and then keep a regular log of my lab values. Would this be of interest to anyone? And which one would everyone want to see most? the 1-AD or the 4-AD? Let me know and I'll place an order for one of these products. So essentially, it's been determined that these both ARE derivatives of DHEA, but in such a manner that they convert to 1-Testosterone? Let me know and I'll jump on it. I'm not cycling any other products at the moment other than a thermogenic........

 

[natiels]

Ok. I think I might try one of these and try to settle some of the hoopla. Either of these is "supposed" to convert to 1-testosterone in the body, correct? Therefore, the body's free testosterone should be elevated as well correct? Would regular labs of free testosterone be beneficial to anyone? I can measure my baseline testosterone in my lab before I cycle of these products, and then keep a regular log of my lab values. Would this be of interest to anyone? And which one would everyone want to see most? the 1-AD or the 4-AD? Let me know and I'll place an order for one of these products. So essentially, it's been determined that these both ARE derivatives of DHEA, but in such a manner that they convert to 1-Testosterone? Let me know and I'll jump on it. I'm not cycling any other products at the moment other than a thermogenic........

The 4-AD product is supposed to convert to actual testosterone and would in theory raise your test levels. 1-AD converts to 1-test which is actually very different then testosterone and would not increase your test levels.

I would personally love to see if the 4-AD actually works since it would be a nice legal option for stacking actual testosterone into cycles.

 

[TeamSavage]

The 4-AD product is supposed to convert to actual testosterone and would in theory raise your test levels. 1-AD converts to 1-test which is actually very different then testosterone and would not increase your test levels.

I would personally love to see if the 4-AD actually works since it would be a nice legal option for stacking actual testosterone into cycles.

Seconded.

Morpheus - That would be awesome if you could take 4-AD and log your test levels. This will give us the clearest indication of whether this product is legit and approx. how much is actually converting to test. If I'm not mistaken, the effect on testosterone should be more-or-less apparent after a single dose, no? So it should be easy to log how low, medium, and high doses of 4-AD are impacting test.

 

[jmh80]

Yeah - I seriously doubt it will raise free test levels - but if you log it, we can see if they go down.

As Sav mentions, total test would give an indication of 4-AD working.


Actually - now that I think of it, with taking both the 1-t analouge and 4-AD analouge I have no clue what those would do to free and total test. But - it would be interesting to see the data. We could try to draw some conclusions from it - maybe get Dr. D in here to help us answer the question of "does this crap actually work?".

 

[b unit]

when is dhea not dhea, that is the question?:fart:

 

[morpheus1914]

With everything said, I will try the 4-AD and log my total testosterone levels. It's worth a shot, I mean I can test myself for free, so what the hell. However, I agree with b unit. Just when is DHEA not DHEA? We shall see, as some of the previous posts make a strong claim to substantiate these DHEA derivatives and their role in raising testosterone.........

 

[jmh80]

Well - I shall look forward to said testing.

 

[TeamSavage]

Awesome. Thanks Morph.

Does anybody have any educated guesses as to how long the test elevation from this 4-AD might last?

 

[xtraflossy]

Awesome. Thanks Morph.

Does anybody have any educated guesses as to how long the test elevation from this 4-AD might last?

I would guess the elevation would be longer then that of 4AD itself, since there no single instant that all the 4-dhea is converted to 4AD.
Its a longer conversion, so you have the time that that would take...
ex: the moment your test is elevated by 1%, it's elevated, even if only 50% of the 4-dhea is converted.
Just thinking that the curve would be somewhat drawn out, and not as high as if you took regular 4AD.
(all this assuming I knew what comparable doses of 4AD and this 4-deah were)

 

[natiels]

the company making this new stuff is saying the conversion from the 4-dhea to actual 4-ad is 99%. No idea if that is acurate, but that is what they have stated.

 

[TeamSavage]

the company making this new stuff is saying the conversion from the 4-dhea to actual 4-ad is 99%. No idea if that is acurate, but that is what they have stated.

That's conversion to 4-androstenedione, right? Not 4-androstenediol.

 

[Moyer]

That's conversion to 4-androstenedione, right? Not 4-androstenediol.

Yep, that's what they claim anyway (and there's a big difference between diol & dione).

 

[Lawhammer]

Ok. I think I might try one of these and try to settle some of the hoopla. Either of these is "supposed" to convert to 1-testosterone in the body, correct? Therefore, the body's free testosterone should be elevated as well correct? Would regular labs of free testosterone be beneficial to anyone? I can measure my baseline testosterone in my lab before I cycle of these products, and then keep a regular log of my lab values. Would this be of interest to anyone? And which one would everyone want to see most? the 1-AD or the 4-AD? Let me know and I'll place an order for one of these products. So essentially, it's been determined that these both ARE derivatives of DHEA, but in such a manner that they convert to 1-Testosterone? Let me know and I'll jump on it. I'm not cycling any other products at the moment other than a thermogenic........

Doesn't it cost around $500 to get a real testosterone level test? I'm a little wary of in this situation because you appear too willing to shell out so much money for this purpose. It would be really easy for someone to post fake results. If I am wrong about the cost or about our ability to verify the testosterone test results, I would like to know. Otherwise, I am probably not going to put much stock into your test results. Sorry if this seems rude, its not meant to be.

I WANT this product to work, and I agree that a testosterone test would be a great way to find out. However, at this point, I remain completely unconvinced. Moreover, as the days continue to roll by without any persuasive results posted, I am becoming less and less optimistic and will soon loose interest.

 

[TeamSavage]

Doesn't it cost around $500 to get a real testosterone level test? I'm a little wary of in this situation because you appear too willing to shell out so much money for this purpose. It would be really easy for someone to post fake results. If I am wrong about the cost or about our ability to verify the testosterone test results, I would like to know. Otherwise, I am probably not going to put much stock into your test results. Sorry if this seems rude, its not meant to be.

I believe he can test himself for free somehow (which is pretty awesome). I'm sure Morph can clarify though...

But Hammer, you're right, if he was paying for the tests then it would be ridiculously expensive to play subject for this experiment.

 

[morpheus1914]

Wow. Hmm. Let's see. I work in a lab maybe? I am an ASCP certified lab tech. I work in a full range hospital laboratory providing all basic chemistries, hematology, coagulation, urinalysis, and viral markers and hormone testing to include total testosterone, estradiol, TSH, FT4, cortisol. We are not a reference lab, therefore the extent of my testosterone testing goes to total test, not any of its derivatives. If any of the docs at our hospital need something of that nature, then we have to mail to a lab such as Quest Diagnostics. Those I cannot do, since then, I am not performing the test myself and would require a doctor's order and would seem rather odd ordering these tests and mailing them out too frequently. However, we use a Ortho Cliinical Vitros ECI for our hormone testing and I operate that instrument quite well considering I supervise hematology at my hospital and not chemistry. Considering how many tests we process on a regular basis, including testosterone, the quallity control we must perform, maintenance, etc. It's 'OK" if I "slip in" a few tests every week to monitor where I'm at. It's the perks of working in a lab, ya think? I monitor my lipids and LFTs on a regular as well.
I ordered the product and am just waiting for it to arrive. What I am doing is drawing myself everyday at around the same time to try to establish a baseline since test does fluctuate throughout the day. My first result came back at 238 ng/dL. Which actually is the low end of normal. Bothers me considering I am 28, and the size and strength I have. I would think I would at least be in the 400s. LOL. I remember I checked myself one time when I was doing a cycle of Halodrol-50. Now, since I can't test for the Halodrol, a test of my total test would be a slight indicator of whether it was working if my total test was dropping. It did, as my total test was down to 120 ng/dL. This was about 6 months ago though.
I'm just an everyday guy like most of you. I have a family, 4 kids, and play semi pro football and am looking for an edge just like everyone else on here to help me increase my performance since I still want to play pro before I get too old. I am tired of throwing my money away on products that don't work but have good marketing. I am so tempted to try the "real" thing but don't know where to go and am scared to risk my career and family for that. So I love to look at this forum to get everyone's opinion on these products and while everyone seems so well informed and has great input, this is the one product that seems to have some people baffled. So I thought I would try and see what comes up........
Take it for what it is. As soon as the product arrives, I will start a regular log....don't worry..... LOL

 

[natiels]

Thanks Morpheus. I am really looking forward to your testing/results.

 

[Lawhammer]

Wow. Hmm. Let's see. I work in a lab maybe? I am an ASCP certified lab tech. I work in a full range hospital laboratory providing all basic chemistries, hematology, coagulation, urinalysis, and viral markers and hormone testing to include total testosterone, estradiol, TSH, FT4, cortisol. We are not a reference lab, therefore the extent of my testosterone testing goes to total test, not any of its derivatives. If any of the docs at our hospital need something of that nature, then we have to mail to a lab such as Quest Diagnostics. Those I cannot do, since then, I am not performing the test myself and would require a doctor's order and would seem rather odd ordering these tests and mailing them out too frequently. However, we use a Ortho Cliinical Vitros ECI for our hormone testing and I operate that instrument quite well considering I supervise hematology at my hospital and not chemistry. Considering how many tests we process on a regular basis, including testosterone, the quallity control we must perform, maintenance, etc. It's 'OK" if I "slip in" a few tests every week to monitor where I'm at. It's the perks of working in a lab, ya think? I monitor my lipids and LFTs on a regular as well.
I ordered the product from discountanabolics since they were also sending a free bottle of theit post cycle therapy product as well and i am just waiting for it to arrive. What I am doing is drawing myself everyday at around the same time to try to establish a baseline since test does fluctuate throughout the day. My first result came back at 238 ng/dL. Which actually is the low end of normal. Bothers me considering I am 28, and the size and strength I have. I would think I would at least be in the 400s. LOL. I remember I checked myself one time when I was doing a cycle of Halodrol-50. Now, since I can't test for the Halodrol, a test of my total test would be a slight indicator of whether it was working if my total test was dropping. It did, as my total test was down to 120 ng/dL. This was about 6 months ago though.
I'm just an everyday guy like most of you. I have a family, 4 kids, and play semi pro football and am looking for an edge just like everyone else on here to help me increase my performance since I still want to play pro before I get too old. I am tired of throwing my money away on products that don't work but have good marketing. I am so tempted to try the "real" thing but don't know where to go and am scared to risk my career and family for that. So I love to look at this forum to get everyone's opinion on these products and while everyone seems so well informed and has great input, this is the one product that seems to have some people baffled. So I thought I would try and see what comes up........
Take it for what it is. As soon as the product arrives, I will start a regular log....don't worry..... LOL

Ok, you have my attention again. (I shall trust but reserve the right to verify)
One thing, if you can test only for total testosterone it may still be difficult to determine whether the stuff is working. 4AD is supposed to convert to testosterone and should then result in an increase in blood serum testosterone. However, 1AD is supposed to convert to 1-Testosterone, which would lower your blood serum testosterone. If your taking both at the same time, it may be difficult to determine from your test if the 1ad was working.
If they're both legit and you take at the same time, you would expect an increase in blood serum test. If the 1AD doesn't work, you wouldn't have any way of knowing. I guess the only way to tell if the 1AD works (using your blood test) would be to take it by itself and look for a drop in blood serum test (like you said).

By the way, since you mentioned that you're concerned about getting busted w/ your amature football for roids, seems like this stuff, if it works, would be detected. Have you ever tried HGH, IGF-1, PegMGF, ect? I haven't tried them, so I don't know first hand how well they work, but I am pretty sure that they're not easily detected. Just a thought.

 

[natiels]

With everything said, I will try the 4-AD and log my total testosterone levels. It's worth a shot, I mean I can test myself for free, so what the hell. However, I agree with b unit. Just when is DHEA not DHEA? We shall see, as some of the previous posts make a strong claim to substantiate these DHEA derivatives and their role in raising testosterone.........

Lawhammer READ. He is only going to try the 4-AD because of the reasons you just mentioned.

 

[Lawhammer]

Lawhammer READ. He is only going to try the 4-AD because of the reasons you just mentioned.

Woops. I read too much in my job. Its was so much more fun to reply to what I thought was his post rather than actually reading the whole thing.

 

[Moyer]

This was posted by an AMS rep on another board:

"600mg of 4-AD should convert to 90-180mg of Testosterone in the body.

400mg of 1-Androsterone should convert to 60-120mg of 1-Testosterone in the body."

 

[xtraflossy]

This was posted by an AMS rep on another board:

"600mg of 4-AD should convert to 90-180mg of Testosterone in the body.

400mg of 1-Androsterone should convert to 60-120mg of 1-Testosterone in the body."

Can you post a link?
I am curious, as they claimed 99% conversion to andro.

Conversion for "real" 4-AD
600mgs 4-ad convert to 90-180mgs of T = 15-30% mean of 22.5%
400mgs 1-ad convert to 60-120mgs of 1-T=(same)15-30% mean of 22.5%
One cap 1-ad=100mgs therefore approx.= 22.5mgs of 1-test
Or 30 days @ 45mgs of 1-test per bottle.
What is an effective dosage of 1-ad?
as a non-methyl couldn't you run up to 600mgs a day of 1-ad?

 

[Moyer]

Can you post a link?

Advanced Muscle Science reps...

 

[Moyer]

I am curious, as they claimed 99% conversion to andro.

Yeah I'm gonna ask and see if he replies. AFAIK, andro doesn't have a very high conversion...

 

[axekick]

Wow! What an asset to this site. Morpheus it's cool that you're doing what you're doing. Have you tried anything that appeard to make a real difference in your test level before?

 

[xtraflossy]

It basicly sounds like there is NO difference, and that 4-dhea = 4-AD.?? (as numbers he claimed, and assuming the 99% conversion rate of 1-dhea to actual 4-AD)


at 150mg a cap (for the 4-AD), for an effective dose of 900mg (personally, I have no expirence in what an effective dose would be) that would be 6 caps daily.
10 days... bout $50
30 days... $150 !!!

damn,.. :jaw:

I wonder, since they claimed first pass of the liver or something simular,.. if that would mean anything as to the condition of the converted 4-AD from 4-dhea...
How much 4-AD was lost to the stomach?
In other words, if I took 100mg of 1-dhea one day, and 100mg actual 4-AD the next,.. would the amounts of andro in circulation (after digestion) be different???

 

[Moyer]

It basicly sounds like there is NO difference, and that 4-dhea = 4-AD.?? (as numbers he claimed, and assuming the 99% conversion rate of 1-dhea to actual 4-AD)


at 150mg a cap (for the 4-AD), for an effective dose of 900mg (personally, I have no expirence in what an effective dose would be) that would be 6 caps daily.
10 days... bout $50
30 days... $150 !!!

damn,.. :jaw:

I wonder, since they claimed first pass of the liver or something simular,.. if that would mean anything as to the condition of the converted 4-AD from 4-dhea...
How much 4-AD was lost to the stomach?
In other words, if I took 100mg of 1-dhea one day, and 100mg actual 4-AD the next,.. would the amounts of andro in circulation (after digestion) be different???

Their "4-DHEA" 4AD product has nothing to do w/ actual 4AD. Actual 4AD is 4-diol. AMS has said their 4-DHEA converts 99% to 4-dione. 4-dione is Andro. Andro pretty much sucks (5.6% conversion to Test, too much estrogen, etc). That's why their test conversion numbers are funny.

 

[jmh80]

Good point on the money Floss.

IMO - why waste your time and hard earned dollars. It appears that if you missed out on the real 4-AD, this ain't it.

 

[morpheus1914]

I haven't responded in a few days, but I have been watching the posts. I don't mind being the quinea pig on this one, especially since there were so many questions raised about it. I got the product for a good price plus their PCT, AMS Arom-X, for free. Why not? I just received my package today. I'll do one more test level before my first dose. Should I start out with 450mg/day or 600? Should I spread the dosage or all at once? Let me know, then I'll begin the cycle... Anything else anyone want me to watch? estradiol, liver function, lipids?

 

[natiels]

I haven't responded in a few days, but I have been watching the posts. I don't mind being the quinea pig on this one, especially since there were so many questions raised about it. I got the product for a good price plus their post cycle therapy, AMS Arom-X, for free. Why not? I just received my package today. I'll do one more test level before my first dose. Should I start out with 450mg/day or 600? Should I spread the dosage or all at once? Let me know, then I'll begin the cycle... Anything else anyone want me to watch? estradiol, liver function, lipids?

It would be interesting to see estrogen levels throughout to see how much aromatization is taking place. This compound is supposed to have a small amount of atd in it which helps more of it turn into test. That brings up another question too. ATD can show up erroneously as testosterone on some type of tests. Do you know if the test your doing will be able to dicypher between test and ATD?

 

[Moyer]

It would be interesting to see estrogen levels throughout to see how much aromatization is taking place. This compound is supposed to have a small amount of atd in it which helps more of it turn into test. That brings up another question too. ATD can show up erroneously as testosterone on some type of tests. Do you know if the test your doing will be able to dicypher between test and ATD?

Where did you read the ATD was for boosting test? I assumed it was to control the estrogen from the andro?

 

[yeahright]

Where did you read the ATD was for boosting test? I assumed it was to control the estrogen from the andro?

The reports are that some tests erroneously register ATD as testosterone.

 

[pistonpump]

The reports are that some tests erroneously register ATD as testosterone.

never saw those reports but i would be very interested in them if you can cough them up.:study: :bruce1:

 

[Moyer]

The reports are that some tests erroneously register ATD as testosterone.

Yeah I've heard that. I was wondering how ATD "helps more of it turn into test". :blink:

 

[natiels]

Yeah I've heard that. I was wondering how ATD "helps more of it turn into test". :blink:

By preventing it from aromatizing to estrogen. If you have an AI in there then less of the active compound will turn into estrogen and more of it will be left over to convert to test.

The company who is making this claims they have a "new delivery method" that will increase conversion to test above what the old Andro used to be. I am pretty sure they are referring to the ATD. Who knows how much it will help.

 

[yeahright]

never saw those reports but i would be very interested in them if you can cough them up.:study: :bruce1:

Run some searches.....they came up in discussions about ATD a year or so ago. I don't get drug tested so I didn't pay that much attention to it other than in a "huh that's interesting" kinda way.

 

[East1600Plus]

are their anymore updates on how 4-AD is doing?

 

[morpheus1914]

Yeah. I spread my first dose on Sat. 3 caps @ 150mg each for a total of 450mg/day. I do a football strength workout divided between total upper body one day, total lower body the next. I did upper body yesterday with about 30 min. cardio. Today, due to time constraints, I'm just doing agility (i.e. agility ladder, sprints, speed parachute, etc.) I'll do squats tomorrow. Again, I'm only taking the 4-AD and a thermogenic. Muscle Milk is my protein of choice. I did a baseline of my total test, LH, and FSH again on the 21st.

11-21-2006

FSH - 3.81 mIU/mL
LH - 3.43 mIU/mL
Test - 232 ng/dL

I already drew myself again today to see if there is any change. I figure I'll monitor every other day. After a week, depending upon results, I might up the dose to 600mg/day.

My sample is spinning now, I'll have today's results up shortly.

 

[morpheus1914]

OK, here are my latest results.....

11-27-06

FSH - 4.90 mIU/mL
LH - 4.28 mIU/mL
Test - 427 ng/dL

 

[morpheus1914]

Now my question is this. Based upon what the company stated in the claims to their product, is this a substantial enough increase to support their claims? Should I increase my dose to 600mg?

 

[morpheus1914]

Another concern. What is an effective dose of ATD? Could my latest numbers just be a result of the ATD? Just trying to figure it all out........ :think:

 

[TeamSavage]

Morph - What were your baseline levels? Did you do a test before you started taking it?

 

[morpheus1914]

It is already posted. My total test on Nov. 21 was 232. I took my first dose on Nov. 25. My total test today is 427. Just read above, it's all there.

 

[badbart]

It is already posted. My total test on Nov. 21 was 232. I took my first dose on Nov. 25. My total test today is 427. Just read above, it's all there.

I'm no expert but I'm not sure a 200 is that great of an increase.