33 year old trt?

[Kyoto]

Hey guys. I am 33 years old and have been experiencing some problems with libido and Ed over the past 3 or so years, where as before that time it was through the roof, and the wife has been patient but not sure for how much longer lol.

I got blood work done twice at an anti aging clinic, 1st time TT of 419 and FT 275. 2nd time TT of 342 and FT 206. They prescribed test cyp 100mg per week with .5mg arimidex. I am on the fense about taking it because of my age, any thoughts or opinions, should I give it a go?

 

[thebigt]

Hey guys. I am 33 years old and have been experiencing some problems with libido and Ed over the past 3 or so years, where as before that time it was through the roof, and the wife has been patient but not sure for how much longer lol.

I got blood work done twice at an anti aging clinic, 1st time TT of 419 and FT 275. 2nd time TT of 342 and FT 206. They prescribed test cyp 100mg per week with .5mg arimidex. I am on the fense about taking it because of my age, any thoughts or opinions, should I give it a go?

if it were me I would do research then draw a line down middle of paper and list pro's on one side con's on the other side of paper.

there are other options for ed, and a consequence of trt is difficulty impregnating.

 

[sammpedd88]

Hey guys. I am 33 years old and have been experiencing some problems with libido and Ed over the past 3 or so years, where as before that time it was through the roof, and the wife has been patient but not sure for how much longer lol.

I got blood work done twice at an anti aging clinic, 1st time TT of 419 and FT 275. 2nd time TT of 342 and FT 206. They prescribed test cyp 100mg per week with .5mg arimidex. I am on the fense about taking it because of my age, any thoughts or opinions, should I give it a go?

You need to find a good Dr, not an anti- aging clinic, that will try to determine WHY your test is low. Have you ever done a cycle? Taken PH’s? Take prescription drugs such as opiates? Are you an alcoholic? Do you abuse illicit drugs? Are you overweight? Under unusual amount of stress? Had any injuries? I could keep on but if you can answer yes to one of these, then that could be a contributing factor to your low T. Try everything you can do to keep from getting on TRT because once you do it’s for life and like someone else has already pointed out, it’s hard to father children on TRT. Find a Dr that practices integrative medicine in your area.

 

[thebigt]

You need to find a good Dr, not an anti- aging clinic, that will try to determine WHY your test is low. Have you ever done a cycle? Taken PH’s? Take prescription drugs such as opiates? Are you an alcoholic? Do you abuse illicit drugs? Are you overweight? Under unusual amount of stress? Had any injuries? I could keep on but if you can answer yes to one of these, then that could be a contributing factor to your low T. Try everything you can do to keep from getting on TRT because once you do it’s for life and like someone else has already pointed out, it’s hard to father children on TRT. Find a Dr that practices integrative medicine in your area.

this is sound advice, good post!!!

 

[sammpedd88]

this is sound advice, good post!!!

Thanks bro! My only regret with TRT is not being educated myself in the beginning and trusting a family dr. He gave me androgel and sent me in my way. No labs or anything. Took me a while to find my current Dr. If I had known better I would have tried to prevent getting on TRT but I was too far in to turn around.

 

[thebigt]

Thanks bro! My only regret with TRT is not being educated myself in the beginning and trusting a family dr. He gave me androgel and sent me in my way. No labs or anything. Took me a while to find my current Dr. If I had known better I would have tried to prevent getting on TRT but I was too far in to turn around.

I was 50 and my test was extremely low, and I was still hesitant to make a lifelong commitment to trt. if I had been given alternatives I would have seriously considered them.

you can divorce a wife, trt aint going nowhere, it truly is a lifelong commitment.

 

[sammpedd88]

I was 50 and my test was extremely low, and I was still hesitant to make a lifelong commitment to trt. if I had been given alternatives I would have seriously considered them.

you can divorce a wife, trt aint going nowhere, it truly is a lifelong commitment.

Good analogy man!!

 

[Kyoto]

You need to find a good Dr, not an anti- aging clinic, that will try to determine WHY your test is low. Have you ever done a cycle? Taken PH’s? Take prescription drugs such as opiates? Are you an alcoholic? Do you abuse illicit drugs? Are you overweight? Under unusual amount of stress? Had any injuries? I could keep on but if you can answer yes to one of these, then that could be a contributing factor to your low T. Try everything you can do to keep from getting on TRT because once you do it’s for life and like someone else has already pointed out, it’s hard to father children on TRT. Find a Dr that practices integrative medicine in your area.

Well i should clarify that at this clinic i am seeing a GP that "specializes" in trt and i have went through a few tests because my testes have been aching as well as the left one being small and numb feeling, however in the altrasound everything came out ok. I do have an MRI scheduled in august but it is not related to these symptoms, however im sure if there is something wrong with the pituitary it will show up.

I have never done a cycle or taking PH's, never had any major injuries. I do take Blood pressure medications ever since i was in my late teens, the doctors dont know why i have high blood pressure because i am quite healthy otherwise. I eat clean most of the time, work out 6 days a week, sleep 8-9 hours a day. As far as stress goes i cant say i dont have any, no body can say that, as far as it being abnormal id say from time to time life and work stresses do effect me negatively and have developed quite bad anxiety/depression. was on ssri's for 4 years and came off last year because i never felt any benefit to it. So thats about it really.

As far as having to take it for the rest of my life i am not concerned because i have other medications i have to take ie. blood pressure/asthma and they dont bother me, unless of course it doesn't benefit me than id be pissed that id be dependent on it lol.

I really appreciate everyone's feedback. Thanks guys.

 

[Kyoto]

I was 50 and my test was extremely low, and I was still hesitant to make a lifelong commitment to trt. if I had been given alternatives I would have seriously considered them.

you can divorce a wife, trt aint going nowhere, it truly is a lifelong commitment.

I completely understand where your coming from, but have you not noticed an increased quality of life to make it worth while being on trt? I realise its more of a bandaid but if it makes you feel better isn't it worth it? Although I realise there could be possible implications as well, guess nothing is without risk unfortunately.

 

[thebigt]

I completely understand where your coming from, but have you not noticed an increased quality of life to make it worth while being on trt? I realise its more of a bandaid but if it makes you feel better isn't it worth it? Although I realise there could be possible implications as well, guess nothing is without risk unfortunately.

yes, of course. and for the 1st 1-7 years it was great, now it is just something I need to do. it's kind of like a drug addict who doesn't get that high 'feel' anymore and has to use drugs just to function-the thrill is gone.

 

[Kyoto]

yes, of course. and for the 1st 1-7 years it was great, now it is just something I need to do. it's kind of like a drug addict who doesn't get that high 'feel' anymore and has to use drugs just to function-the thrill is gone.

Yeah i guess when you have fully optimized yourself and have been living symptom free for quite some time it would feel as though the "high" is gone, but isnt that normal?
i completely see where your coming from but say for example you stop taking it and your HTPA kicks in and you go back to pre trt levels then your symptoms come back and you feel like crap again, are we not just trying to get back up to our natural levels so we can live optimally without symptoms? Just like we would be if our natural levels were high enough to begin with.

The research that i have done seems to tip the scale over to the positive side especially with high normal levels being cardio protective as well as it possibly warding off Alzheimer with a host of other benefits.

But yeah sorry as you can see im really trying to convince myself that it's worth it lol I even have it sitting in my kitchen cupboard, but at the moment i highly doubt i will be taking it. It is definitively a huge decision to make, and i really appreciate your guys's honesty and personal experiences it helps in my decision making.

I think i will go with trying everything else possible first like you guys said.

 

[DaeshDontSurf]

i different, lol - mid 50's, started mid 40's - looking back, i'd have started earlier if i'd known. this whole "life commitment" stuff - ok, yes, like brushing teeth and taking shower i say. sub-q so easy, take me 3 minutes tops.

BUT BUT BUT....

33 is little young for hypogonadism. like above, see if other cause. could try clomid to see if machinery can still produce (if no hypothalamus or pituitary problem detected). if not work, may have primary for some reason and need trt.

 

[Kyoto]

i different, lol - mid 50's, started mid 40's - looking back, i'd have started earlier if i'd known. this whole "life commitment" stuff - ok, yes, like brushing teeth and taking shower i say. sub-q so easy, take me 3 minutes tops.

BUT BUT BUT....

33 is little young for hypogonadism. like above, see if other cause. could try clomid to see if machinery can still produce (if no hypothalamus or pituitary problem detected). if not work, may have primary for some reason and need trt.

Hey man thanks for your input.
I have heard some horror stories about clomid and I'm not going to lie it scares the hell out of me lol.
Also I doubt this clinic would prescribe it but maybe, they do prescribe hcg although again it suppresses natural LH and wouldnt be any better than trt at that point.

I used to take ADD meds (vyvance) in my late 20s for about a year and I wonder if that buggerd something up or maybe the SSRI's or both lol.

I had teste pain for a while then I felt loss of libido quite suddenly over a matter of a day then started noticing erectile difficulties, testes shrank quite a bit and seemed flat instead of round and were numb feeling. Never went to the doctor about it at that point but I should have.
Months later they started going back to normal ish size and regained feeling in them. Ever since than I have never been the same and the altra sound that I just did a couple months ago show them as being healthy. Also to this day feel discomfort ejaculating with low amounts of fluid.
I find it quite frustrating that I get brushed off when I tell GP's this.

 

[sammpedd88]

Hey man thanks for your input.
I have heard some horror stories about clomid and I'm not going to lie it scares the hell out of me lol.
Also I doubt this clinic would prescribe it but maybe, they do prescribe hcg although again it suppresses natural LH and wouldnt be any better than trt at that point.

I used to take ADD meds (vyvance) in my late 20s for about a year and I wonder if that buggerd something up or maybe the SSRI's or both lol.

I had teste pain for a while then I felt loss of libido quite suddenly over a matter of a day then started noticing erectile difficulties, testes shrank quite a bit and seemed flat instead of round and were numb feeling. Never went to the doctor about it at that point but I should have.
Months later they started going back to normal ish size and regained feeling in them. Ever since than I have never been the same and the altra sound that I just did a couple months ago show them as being healthy. Also to this day feel discomfort ejaculating with low amounts of fluid.
I find it quite frustrating that I get brushed off when I tell GP's this.

Most GP’s suck when it comes to things as in depth as hormones. Some urologists and Endos aren’t any better. It’s a possibility your ADD meds could have messed something up. Taking HCG wouldn’t be a good option for you as compared to Clomid. HCG jacks up your E2 levels so much. Low doses of Clomid is worth a try IMO than committing to TRT. I wish I had known about it before I started TRT.

 

[Kyoto]

Most GP’s suck when it comes to things as in depth as hormones. Some urologists and Endos aren’t any better. It’s a possibility your ADD meds could have messed something up. Taking HCG wouldn’t be a good option for you as compared to Clomid. HCG jacks up your E2 levels so much. Low doses of Clomid is worth a try IMO than committing to TRT. I wish I had known about it before I started TRT.

Yeah I've been reading that it does increase e2 like crazy, but doesnt clomid do the same?
I'm guessing with clomid like anything else you have to continually take or you just go back to how you felt before right? In that case isn't it similar to trt? Without the loss of fertility of course, which I'm not worried about. Although dependency I guess?
You can quit clomid with no issues as compared to trt where it can permanently mess up your HPTA.
I guess I can see why people try it first. Might be a good choice and if I experience any negatives I'll just stop taking it.

 

[sammpedd88]

Yeah I've been reading that it does increase e2 like crazy, but doesnt clomid do the same?
I'm guessing with clomid like anything else you have to continually take or you just go back to how you felt before right? In that case isn't it similar to trt? Without the loss of fertility of course, which I'm not worried about. Although dependency I guess?
You can quit clomid with no issues as compared to trt where it can permanently mess up your HPTA.
I guess I can see why people try it first. Might be a good choice and if I experience any negatives I'll just stop taking it.

Clomid does increase E2 but most guys have posted that it’s not as bad. There’s a “kick start” method with Clomid as far as tapering the dose down until you stop totally and redo you labs for a period of time to see if you T levels stay up naturally. Basically the Clomid jump starts your natural production. Search on the forum about jump starting natural T production with Clomid and show it to your Dr. At this point it’s worth a shot. Worst case scenario it doesn’t work for you and you get on TRT!

 

[Kyoto]

Clomid does increase E2 but most guys have posted that it’s not as bad. There’s a “kick start” method with Clomid as far as tapering the dose down until you stop totally and redo you labs for a period of time to see if you T levels stay up naturally. Basically the Clomid jump starts your natural production. Search on the forum about jump starting natural T production with Clomid and show it to your Dr. At this point it’s worth a shot. Worst case scenario it doesn’t work for you and you get on TRT!

Sounds like a good plan guess it cant hurt to give it a try right! I will do some research on it as well since i dont know a whole lot about it.
What about temoxefin? same effect different medication?

Thanks again for all your guys's help, i have been feeling pretty hopeless about it all for along time now and the doctors sure dont help.

 

[The Matrix]

These are what I refer to the foundations of chronic healthy issues:
Environmental
Pathogens
Mindset
Emotional trauma present past and transgenerational
Structure
Lifestyles
Medical Fuk Ups or drugs interactions

There could be a number of factors. Only with a detailed history and labs will you find the underlying pathologies or clues to why.

Simple philosophy I teach to practitoners and doctors “listen to the patient they will tell you their diagnosis” can’t get any easier then that..

After Seeing 1000’s of failed restarts, biggest mistake seen with doctors is “you can not build a mansion if you do not have the blue prints and right materials”

 

[enigma2771]

Matrix - do you ever use high dose antioxidants with your clients to help reduce free radical damage within the testes (i'm talking about people maybe using clomid so have high Lh levels)?

 

[The Matrix]

I advocate “test don’t guess” to practitioners

 

[Kyoto]

These are what I refer to the foundations of chronic healthy issues:
Environmental
Pathogens
Mindset
Emotional trauma present past and transgenerational
Structure
Lifestyles
Medical Fuk Ups or drugs interactions

There could be a number of factors. Only with a detailed history and labs will you find the underlying pathologies or clues to why.

Simple philosophy I teach to practitoners and doctors “listen to the patient they will tell you their diagnosis” can’t get any easier then that..

After Seeing 1000’s of failed restarts, biggest mistake seen with doctors is “you can not build a mansion if you do not have the blue prints and right materials”

Hey man thanks for the sound advice. I suppose all that can be a contributing factor in health, especially the longer we live more traumas and circumstance arise that really do affect a person weather we realise it or not.

I find It difficult to find a doctor that wont rush me out in less than 5 minutes. Good luck getting to the bottom of a problem if you bring up anxiety too, once you do that's the answer to all your problems and you need SSRI's.
That aside I've done blood work they say it's all in the "normal range"
I'm not sure about anything else but I know testosterone shouldn't be as low as it is even if in the normal range.
Seems to me I'm going to have to figure this out on my own.

 

[DaeshDontSurf]

clomid very tested - come out like in 60's. i think. most trt application use just like 12.5mg and just stay that way. not really horror story material i would think.

hcg not raise my e2 at sane amount - i take 10 units on a day. i not even use ai at all. but people different - must test.

 

[Kyoto]

clomid very tested - come out like in 60's. i think. most trt application use just like 12.5mg and just stay that way. not really horror story material i would think.

hcg not raise my e2 at sane amount - i take 10 units on a day. i not even use ai at all. but people different - must test.

What I ment by that is I've read it can cause vision loss, it can cause spots in your vision and some people have had permanent damage from it.
Not something I'd like to experience although usually if you stop treatment once you notice it it comes back over time.

I feel like I'm going to have a hard time getting this medication from my doctor though. Lol.

 

[DaeshDontSurf]

What I ment by that is I've read it can cause vision loss, it can cause spots in your vision and some people have had permanent damage from it.
Not something I'd like to experience although usually if you stop treatment once you notice it it comes back over time.

I feel like I'm going to have a hard time getting this medication from my doctor though. Lol.

have you links to research papers where vision problems occur? hear for andarine (s4), not for clomid, but i can't hear everything, lol.

doctor can give clomid - approve for off label use - dr crisler had patients on it.

 

[Kyoto]

have you links to research papers where vision problems occur? hear for andarine (s4), not for clomid, but i can't hear everything, lol.

doctor can give clomid - approve for off label use - dr crisler had patients on it.

I have read on many forums that it can be a side affect for some people, it can cause swelling /inflammation in your pituitary gland which in turn can cause the visual problems among others.

If you do a simple google search you will see it comes up as a possible side affect. Normally temporary but if continued while having such side effects can become permanent.

I know it can be prescribed by most doctors however, the doctors that I have seen may be reluctant to give it to me.
I got my blood work back recently and my test is down from 14.8 (426ng/gl) to 10.4 (300ng/dl) and they figure I'm fine and dont need anything.
I will be asking the next time I go in though.

 

[The Matrix]

Clomid can case you to have temporary blue blocker vision seeing yellow. It is often doses related and vision returns to normal when you lower dosage or stop. If you are stupid enough to stay on with vision side effects then you that’s on you ..

 

[DaeshDontSurf]

very interesting. very large male study done once (think all had brain problem, not positive) - no adverse but dose only 12.5 iirc, maybe 25. recommendation for 100mg clomid was stupid (was it scally?) thanks.

oh - 300 definitely not fine imo, good luck.

 

[Kyoto]

very interesting. very large male study done once (think all had brain problem, not positive) - no adverse but dose only 12.5 iirc, maybe 25. recommendation for 100mg clomid was stupid (was it scally?) thanks.

oh - 300 definitely not fine imo, good luck.

I hear 12.5-25mg is a good dose with the least amount of side effects and still gets the job done. So hopefully I can convince the doc.
Just been feeling like **** lately, tired all day no libido no motivation, literally have to force myself to do anything, mood sucks.

Does anyone know how long it takes for clomid to start working when started?

 

[The Matrix]

Agreed, I have doctor's cases I worked on where 12.5 mg Monday Wed Friday put them at 1160
Little bit goes a long way provide you take a deeper dive looking at enzyme pathways, pathogen load, environment life-style and mindsets .

 

[Kyoto]

Agreed, I have doctor's cases I worked on where 12.5 mg Monday Wed Friday put them at 1160
Little bit goes a long way provide you take a deeper dive looking at enzyme pathways, pathogen load, environment life-style and mindsets .

1160? Wow that's quite impressive actually. How long would you typically have to take the medication for to see lasting results?

 

[The Matrix]

Remember we also were addressing other issues missed by traditional medicine such as impaired liver pathways, dysbiosis and mold. These were totally overlooked. He had red light on his nuts, I was sleep monitoring for sleep apnea and different stages of sleep with ouraring. People have no clue how deep this goes. I had him practice specific breathing exercises to help produce nitric oxid to help with kill the pathogens in his gut which were coming from his mouth !!

 

[Kyoto]

Remember we also were addressing other issues missed by traditional medicine such as impaired liver pathways, dysbiosis and mold. These were totally overlooked. He had red light on his nuts, I was sleep monitoring for sleep apnea and different stages of sleep with ouraring. People have no clue how deep this goes. I had him practice specific breathing exercises to help produce nitric oxid to help with kill the pathogens in his gut which were coming from his mouth !!

Hey just curious man, what is your profession? I realise you work with doctors but not just in standard medicine, so naturopathic?

Also since you mentioned sleep apnea, I do have obstructive sleep apnea and have been treating with a cpap machine everyday for 8 years now.
Also it would seem I have some sort of nitric oxide deficiency, I also do breathing techniques to help with that along with a nitric oxide supplement which seems to help with cognition and ED not so much on the libido part.
As far as checking deeply into liver pathways and issues, I unfortunately have to rely on my GP's advice which is in the "normal range" like everything else.
What is your opinion on my thyroid numbers?
FT3: 5.2 ref range: 3.5-6.5
FT4:15.1 ref range: 9.0-23.0
TSH: 3.81 ref range: .20-4.0

 

[The Matrix]

Thyroid numbers are worthless unless the total clinical picture is known. They may be appropriate for stress response..

 

[Kyoto]

So instead of my doc prescribing me anything such as clomid or something of similarity he referred me to an endocrinologist which could take months to get into see.

Are endo's just as blind to "normal levels" like general practitioner's? (low normal in my case ) I mean if I cant even get prescribed clomid to boost my own levels, im afraid I'm going to have no choice but to try trt.
I duno I'm just sick of feeling tired with no libido poor memory and concentration just to name a few.

Hopefully the endo can help me out.

 

[The Matrix]

You must be your own health advocate