i did havoc 2 times in a row. and i think i should have gone with h-drol for an in between. i only gained like 2 lbs on the 2nd cycle after initial end-of-cycle loss, but i did reduce body fat. so i probably gained 5 lean lbs. but my first havoc cycle it was 8-9 lean lbs, which i was surprised with that because i ate like ****. so it looks like h-drol is next, then havoc again.