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2nd Cycle Advise

Dae760

New member
I'm going to be running a blended test 400 e/c/d-1/1/2 with mast-p100 and Var over 14 wks and wasn't quite sure on a few things.

I'm looking at two pins @.5ml test + .75ml Mast. Is this enough Mast? I haven't taken mast before so I went off some dosages that were posted by Doucette.
Var @ 20mg every day over the cycle

Can I draw and pin these together or do they need to be separate?

Currently - 36yr/190lb/14-16% BF
 
Dae760 said:
I'm going to be running a blended test 400 e/c/d-1/1/2 with mast-p100 and Var over 14 wks and wasn't quite sure on a few things.

I'm looking at two pins @.5ml test + .75ml Mast. Is this enough Mast? I haven't taken mast before so I went off some dosages that were posted by Doucette.
Var @ 20mg every day over the cycle

Can I draw and pin these together or do they need to be separate?

Currently - 36yr/190lb/14-16% BF
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Mast prop needs to be injected daily or EOD, 2x week is not frequent enough, I mean it will still be doing something but not a whole lot.

Mast will "work" at any dose, but your not really going to notice anything under 400mg, and var at @20mg is probably going to be underwhelming unless it's pharm, even then it's a little on the low side.

Currently I use about 180-200mg of mast alongside my testosterone but it's kinda there for the estrogen to dht ratio and not for gains.
 
Also you can draw up both into the same syringe and pin, or if you have a extra empty vial you can combine them by drawing up the desired amount of each and injecting them into the other vial, just make sure you have a extra needed in the stopper to vent out the pressure and do your math right to figure out the new concentration
 
Smont said:
Mast prop needs to be injected daily or EOD, 2x week is not frequent enough, I mean it will still be doing something but not a whole lot.

Mast will "work" at any dose, but your not really going to notice anything under 400mg, and var at @20mg is probably going to be underwhelming unless it's pharm, even then it's a little on the low side.

Currently I use about 180-200mg of mast alongside my testosterone but it's kinda there for the estrogen to dht ratio and not for gains.
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I'm worried about the liver toxicity of Var so I was keeping the dosage low, to my knowledge its pharma Var.
If I bump up the Mast to 2.5ml per wk can I keep it at 2 pins?
 
Dae760 said:
I'm worried about the liver toxicity of Var so I was keeping the dosage low, to my knowledge its pharma Var.
If I bump up the Mast to 2.5ml per wk can I keep it at 2 pins?
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You really need the Mast at least m,w,f at the very least. You won't keep stable levels at twice a week. Like was already said you will still get results but not your optimum results. I mean is 1 more pin a week that bad.
 
What ever happened to test prop with or without mast prop Ed for 8-10weeks? Seems like everyone is trying to reinvent the wheel lately.
 
Dae760 said:
Already have 2 vials of Mast P
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got you, then I agree with Smont on the EOD injection. I think you might be more satisfied with just the test and var, but increase the var to at least 30ed, then adjust accordingly, if pharma grade. Maybe, save the mast for low dose during your cruising period. Probably what I would do or save it for next cycle and get enough to run 3-400mg a week.
 
Drolball said:
got you, then I agree with Smont on the EOD injection. I think you might be more satisfied with just the test and var, but increase the var to at least 30ed, then adjust accordingly, if pharma grade. Maybe, save the mast for low dose during your cruising period. Probably what I would do or save it for next cycle and get enough to run 3-400mg a week.
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Can I mix E200 and P100? so for the first vial just blow through the P M/W/F then once its finished switch to the E and do every 5 days 2ml? I can swap one of my P's for E
 
Dae760 said:
Can I mix E200 and P100? so for the first vial just blow through the P M/W/F then once its finished switch to the E and do every 5 days 2ml? I can swap one of my P's for E
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One thing you have to remember is if you do that you are back to square one when prop runs out ad you're waiting for e to start. You have to take them simultaneously till you get the e in effect then drop the prop. Some use this method instead of orals to kickstart a cycle. Would ask that others would contribute just to back me up here so I don't steer you wrong.
 
Noncompetitive said:
One thing you have to remember is if you do that you are back to square one when prop runs out ad you're waiting for e to start. You have to take them simultaneously till you get the e in effect then drop the prop. Some use this method instead of orals to kickstart a cycle. Would ask that others would contribute just to back me up here so I don't steer you wrong.
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You are absolutely right about that, the prop should be ran for a month. I pin test e mwf on cycle and judging by his decision to pin e5d he is either scared or ashamed of pinning. These cycles usually don't end well.
 
Noncompetitive said:
One thing you have to remember is if you do that you are back to square one when prop runs out ad you're waiting for e to start. You have to take them simultaneously till you get the e in effect then drop the prop. Some use this method instead of orals to kickstart a cycle. Would ask that others would contribute just to back me up here so I don't steer you wrong.
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This. Idk if you'd want to do a 1:1 dosage ratio or a little more mg of e than prop. Maybe someone else will know better. Also, would recommend injection every 3.5 days at the least.
 
Ironpirate said:
You are absolutely right about that, the prop should be ran for a month. I pin test e mwf on cycle and judging by his decision to pin e5d he is either scared or ashamed of pinning. These cycles usually don't end well.
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It's neither, i'm going off of dosage/day suggestions by a Greg Doucette video which he states mast-e200 to pin every 5 days I dont have an issue pinning more but dont want to if its not needed.
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Dae760 said:
It's neither, i'm going off of dosage/day suggestions by a Greg Doucette video which he states mast-e200 to pin every 5 days I dont have an issue pinning more but dont want to if its not needed.
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Unless you're very in tune with your body, bloodwork will be the only way to know if its needed or not. What works for one person may not work for another.
 
Dae760 said:
It's neither, i'm going off of dosage/day suggestions by a Greg Doucette video which he states mast-e200 to pin every 5 days I dont have an issue pinning more but dont want to if its not needed.
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I seriously hope you have aromasin or exemstane. I'm not saying you have to do anything I'm just trying to help. I'm just confused first you are all over the place with your compounds. I'm sure someone here can help you. Good luck
 
Ironpirate said:
I seriously hope you have aromasin or exemstane. I'm not saying you have to do anything I'm just trying to help. I'm just confused first you are all over the place with your compounds. I'm sure someone here can help you. Good luck
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confused, why would I need that if Mast is a estrogen blocker? I would think with the relatively low dosages of tri-test i'm using I wouldn't get gyno as my BF% is low and I didnt have any issues of the sort with my previous cycle taking the exact same amount of just tri-test
 
Dae760 said:
confused, why would I need that if Mast is a estrogen blocker? I would think with the relatively low dosages of tri-test i'm using I wouldn't get gyno as my BF% is low and I didnt have any issues of the sort with my previous cycle taking the exact same amount of just tri-test
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You think pinning 3-400mg of test each pin is low! Please don't include me in this anymore. Good luck.
 
This is the problem with buying your gear before asking the questions.

Btw, are you on trt? If not, that Decanoate ester is not a good choice, when doing a pct.
 
KvanH said:
This is the problem with buying your gear before asking the questions.

Btw, are you on trt? If not, that Decanoate ester is not a good choice, when doing a pct.
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true live and learn. Nope im not on TRT was planning on Clomid 6-8wks
 
Dae760 said:
true live and learn. Nope im not on TRT was planning on Clomid 6-8wks
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That sounds good for the Clomid. It would be best to have pre-cycle bloods to know your hormonal baseline, so you can compare after pct, if you've fully recovered or if you want to give more serm a try.

I don't remember the precise half life of Test Decanoate, but it will take several weeks to clear your system and you to be ready for the serm to have an effect.
 
KvanH said:
That sounds good for the Clomid. It would be best to have pre-cycle bloods to know your hormonal baseline, so you can compare after pct, if you've fully recovered or if you want to give more serm a try.

I don't remember the precise half life of Test Decanoate, but it will take several weeks to clear your system and you to be ready for the serm to have an effect.
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From what i've seen its 15 day HL for Decanoate
 
Dae760 said:
Since Mast is an estrogen blocker I can nix using an AI like Arimidex correct?
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Well to be precise, it's not an 'estrogen blocker', but yes it has antiestrogenic properties and yes that will lessen the need for an AI. Depends on the dose of Mast compared to the dose of test and on individual response. So I can't really say, if you'll need an AI or not. Usually if people run Test+Mast 1:1, or close to, they don't need any AI, from what I've seen being reported.
 
KvanH said:
Well to be precise, it's not an 'estrogen blocker', but yes it has antiestrogenic properties and yes that will lessen the need for an AI. Depends on the dose of Mast compared to the dose of test and on individual response. So I can't really say, if you'll need an AI or not. Usually if people run Test+Mast 1:1, or close to, they don't need any AI, from what I've seen being reported.
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Perfect thank you for the information 💪
 
Dae760 said:
Since Mast is an estrogen blocker I can nix using an AI like Arimidex correct?
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It mitigates the expression of estrogen on the estrogen receptor, but does not lower actual estrogen. Basically it will keep minimal E2 side effects a bay. Thus your E2 can still increase to unsafe levels, but the mast will mask it.

Problem is once discontinued, you can have that high estrogen in your system and have an "estro rebound" effect happen.
 
Drolball said:
It mitigates the expression of estrogen on the estrogen receptor, but does not lower actual estrogen. Basically it will keep minimal E2 side effects a bay. Thus your E2 can still increase to unsafe levels, but the mast will mask it.

Problem is once discontinued, you can have that high estrogen in your system and have an "estro rebound" effect happen.
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Ok i'll know more obviously once I have post bloods then can plan accordingly
 
Drolball said:
It mitigates the expression of estrogen on the estrogen receptor, but does not lower actual estrogen. Basically it will keep minimal E2 side effects a bay. Thus your E2 can still increase to unsafe levels, but the mast will mask it.

Problem is once discontinued, you can have that high estrogen in your system and have an "estro rebound" effect happen.
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It does bind to aromatase entzyme also, so it will lessen the aromatization of test to estro to some degree as well, unless I'm mistaken about it binding to aromatase entzyme.
 
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KvanH said:
It does bind to aromatase entzyme also, so it will lessen the aromatization of test to estro to some degree as well, unless I'm mistaken about it binding to aromatase entzyme.
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I know this was on rats, and please correct me if I'm reading this wrong, but my take away is that there isn't a change in concentration levels and only alteration at the receptor.

Either way I would have an AI on hand regardless.
 
Drolball said:
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I know this was on rats, and please correct me if I'm reading this wrong, but my take away is that there isn't a change in concentration levels and only alteration at the receptor.

Either way I would have an AI on hand regardless.
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I most certainly agree on the AI on hand.

My understanding has been, that DHT and DHT compounds like Proviron do bind to the aromatase entzyme, so I just assumed Masteron would do the same, being 2a-methyl-DHT. But I've thought that so long, that I have no recollection where I've gotten that info.

I'll check that link later today.
 
Drolball said:
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I know this was on rats, and please correct me if I'm reading this wrong, but my take away is that there isn't a change in concentration levels and only alteration at the receptor.

Either way I would have an AI on hand regardless.
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For some reason I can't open the full text. Or maybe I've just forgot how, lol. So I only read the abstrack, which didn't directly address the issue in question.

However I tried to find medical literature on DHT binding to aromatase entzyme and couldn't find any. Which would indicate, that it does not decrease aromatisation. Some 'bro articles' did come up mentioning Proviron's (and some about Masterone) AI ability. I don't know where they've gotten their info then. This would be interesting info to know for a fact.

Here's some old writing from BB.com, that I used for quick overviews on different AAS when started to learn about these things and have saved the link.

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"Proviron has four distinct uses in the world of bodybuilding. The first being the result of its structure. It is 5-alpha reduced and not capable of forming estrogen, yet it nonetheless has a much higher affinity for the aromatase enzyme (which converts testosterone to estrogen) than testosterone does."

And about Masteron:

"Drostanolone, being 5-alpha reduced, cannot form estrogen upon interaction with the aromatase enzyme yet still shows a very high affinity for it. Because it takes up so much of the aromatase enzyme, yet is refrained from actually using it by its structural make-up, it reduces the amount of estrogen formed1 from other steroids as well because there are less aromatase enzymes to be used by those compounds to form estrogen with."

But yeah I don't know if the author is mistaken.
 
KvanH said:
For some reason I can't open the full text. Or maybe I've just forgot how, lol. So I only read the abstrack, which didn't directly address the issue in question.

However I tried to find medical literature on DHT binding to aromatase entzyme and couldn't find any. Which would indicate, that it does not decrease aromatisation. Some 'bro articles' did come up mentioning Proviron's (and some about Masterone) AI ability. I don't know where they've gotten their info then. This would be interesting info to know for a fact.

Here's some old writing from BB.com, that I used for quick overviews on different AAS when started to learn about these things and have saved the link.

Invalid Link Removed

"Proviron has four distinct uses in the world of bodybuilding. The first being the result of its structure. It is 5-alpha reduced and not capable of forming estrogen, yet it nonetheless has a much higher affinity for the aromatase enzyme (which converts testosterone to estrogen) than testosterone does."

And about Masteron:

"Drostanolone, being 5-alpha reduced, cannot form estrogen upon interaction with the aromatase enzyme yet still shows a very high affinity for it. Because it takes up so much of the aromatase enzyme, yet is refrained from actually using it by its structural make-up, it reduces the amount of estrogen formed1 from other steroids as well because there are less aromatase enzymes to be used by those compounds to form estrogen with."

But yeah I don't know if the author is mistaken.
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I'm going to do some more digging later or this weekend to see if I can find some concrete information.

I've read a lot of bro science stating the same as you've posted, but then again you hear about people getting gyno or rebound gyno from things like epistane, a dht derivative. Also vice versa, people claim it shrunk their gyno.

I agree this would be something interesting to know for fact. If I can find some scientific literature, maybe I'll start a thread on it.
 
Drolball said:
I'm going to do some more digging later or this weekend to see if I can find some concrete information.

I've read a lot of bro science stating the same as you've posted, but then again you hear about people getting gyno or rebound gyno from things like epistane, a dht derivative. Also vice versa, people claim it shrunk their gyno.

I agree this would be something interesting to know for fact. If I can find some scientific literature, maybe I'll start a thread on it.
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Yeah, rebound gyno from Epistane seems a common thing or scare. But that would indeed imply in towards it having AI property. Or it could be from the competing for ER. Or both. Gyno while on Epi seems odd though, but weird things can happen, when you disrupt the body's hormonal balance. I think some may mistake nipple sensitivity and such feelings for forming of gyno though, when those same kind of sensations can also come from low E2.

Looking forward to hearing your findings.
 
KvanH said:
Yeah, rebound gyno from Epistane seems a common thing or scare. But that would indeed imply in towards it having AI property. Or it could be from the competing for ER. Or both. Gyno while on Epi seems odd though, but weird things can happen, when you disrupt the body's hormonal balance. I think some may mistake nipple sensitivity and such feelings for forming of gyno though, when those same kind of sensations can also come from low E2.

Looking forward to hearing your findings.
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Found this video that has good info on the topic. Didn’t fact check him but I’ve watched a bunch of his videos and is very knowledgeable.

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