23 years old DUTCH and Blood test show extremely low testosterone, I need input?

[l1fterp1nk]

History / Stats - Sorry for the long post

Age 23
Height 6’1”
Weight- 215-225
Body Fat < 15%

Lifetime PRs
Squat 575
Dead 625
Bench 345

Training since I was in 8th grade for football/ sports. Scholarship D-2 athlete. Diet has been pretty consistently vegetables/fruit/ meat/ Greek yogurt/ eggs/ nuts. This is a majority of my diet, certainly not perfect by any means. However for the most part during the week this is what it consists of.

Symptoms - since late spring of 2018 I began feeling consistently tired. All of my training numbers were decreasing. Appetite decreasing. Libido consistently declining. I realized something was wrong and finally decided to get something done.

Lifestyle- I recently graduated college and started an office job. However before I started and graduated I owned my own company and worked on my feet. A BIG thing I think may be contributing is that my business was a Mosquito/ Tick pesticide application company. I always wore my PPE but still had some contact with Pesticides.

Blood test results with ranges following - 12/19/2018

TSH- .941 ulU/ml .27-4.2
Free T4 - 1.5 ng/dL .9-1.7
Free T3- 3.3 pg/ml 2.0-4.4
Thyroglobulin Antibody - 10.0 iu/ml 0-115
Thyroid perixidase antibody - 11.60 iu/ml 0-34
Cortisol - 10.0 ug/dL 6-18.4
DHEA sulfate - 422.00 ug/dL 211-492
Estradiol - 20.0 pg/ml 27.1- 52.2
Progesterone - .47 ng/ml <.5
LH - 5.9 mlu/ml 1.7-8.6
FSH - 2.8 mlu/ml 1.5-12.4
SHBG - 22.6 nmol/L 16.5-55.9
Testosterone - 257.00 ng/dL 300-904
Test bio available - 151.27 ng/dL 139-409
Test Free - 5.58 ng/dL 5.4-16
Prolactin - 6.65 ng/mL 4.04-15.2
HGH - .07 ng/mL .00-2.5
IGF-1 - 288.00 ng/ml 135-238

Dutch Test date 01-26-2019

Sex Hormones
Estriodol - 1.34 (.5-2.2)
Testosterone - 4 (25 - 115)
Age break down for test by age
18-25 (50-115)
26-40 (40-95)
41-60 (30-80)
>60 (25-60)

Adrenal Hormones
DHEA total - 4789 (1000-5500)
Saliva Cortisol - 7.62 (9.6-19.30)
Metabolized cortisol - 7362 (4550-10000)

I have all other numbers for this test if needed as well as the full panel blood test. Please let me know if any other numbers would be helpful.

My primary care doctor is part traditional medicine part holistic. My goal is to fix the root cause of the issue. While I am open to TRT during the fixing process as I am so tired of feeling like garbage

Should mention during my transition between HS football to college football. I stupidly did a few short “cycles” of igf-1 Des 5mcg / 3 times a week.

I look forward to your insight. Thank you all!

 

[Jebrook]

Those test results don’t provide any insight unless you include the reference ranges used by the labs.

 

[l1fterp1nk]

Do you mean the units?

 

[THOR 70]

Do you mean the units?

No the parameters. Usually a high and a low number and your number would be somewhere in between. The number you posted have no point of reference as all tests are different and have different ranges

 

[Zvch]

Those test results don’t provide any insight unless you include the reference ranges used by the labs.

He’s 23 with a testosterone level of 250ng/dl. I really don’t think a reference range is needed to determine that his levels are in the toilet for his age. Reference ranges don’t mean anything - they’re a range of what is considered normal by that specific lab. Regardless of what the lab says, 250 is not normal for a 23 year old at any lab, period. And definitely not optimal.
If we’re talking about the reference ranges for the other numbers in order to determine maybe something else that could be causing the low T, yeah I agree. That’s probably better left to an endocrinologist though.

 

[Jebrook]

He’s 23 with a testosterone level of 250ng/dl. I really don’t think a reference range is needed to determine that his levels are in the toilet for his age. Reference ranges don’t mean anything - they’re a range of what is considered normal by that specific lab. Regardless of what the lab says, 250 is not normal for a 23 year old at any lab, period. And definitely not optimal.
If we’re talking about the reference ranges for the other numbers in order to determine maybe something else that could be causing the low T, yeah I agree. That’s probably better left to an endocrinologist though.

Analysis of the other hormone balance/imbalances is exactly why I requested the reference ranges.

 

[l1fterp1nk]

I can certainly grab reference ranges. For the most part the other numbers are “within range” for everything but estradiol which is “low” in blood but high on DUTCH. Igf-1 is considered high in blood too. My only issue with ranges is that they are so broad. I mean according to ranges at 300 ng/dL testosterone id be in the “normal range”. The DUTCH test results don’t give units but do give ranges, those are mostly prorated by age. I will get those. Thanks guys!

 

[BroBrian]

Assuming you had actual igf-1 Des, that would not have affected your Hpta at all so you can check that off at least.

 

[l1fterp1nk]

All ranges should be updated. Let me know if I need any other numbers posted.

I am open to TRT while I get my natural fixed. It doesn’t seem to be an LH or DHEA issue. It seems to be some form of conversion issue. My Adrenals seem to be stressed (cutting back on caffeine) but I don’t know what else I need? Any thoughts? Much appreciated guys!

 

[l1fterp1nk]

No updates or advice at all?

 

[John Smeton]

I would change my diet for optimal test levels. at least 20 % fat. High protein of course, because it sounds in your first post your not eating stuff like beef, chicken, whey protein, etc

make sure your getting eight to nine hours sleep.

 

[l1fterp1nk]

I do for the most part eat only beef or pork. Lots of eggs sausage. Greek yogurt, vegetables, and peanut butter. I get quite a bit for fats I think. Sleep I need to work on, I do work a lot but get for sure 7-8 now. 9 would be great.

Thanks for the recommendation! I wish we could get some more people in here to discuss.

 

[THOR 70]

I do for the most part eat only beef or pork. Lots of eggs sausage. Greek yogurt, vegetables, and peanut butter. I get quite a bit for fats I think. Sleep I need to work on, I do work a lot but get for sure 7-8 now. 9 would be great.

Thanks for the recommendation! I wish we could get some more people in here to discuss.

You need a good endo bud. If your diet, stress, training is on point, then it’s time to look for an underlying cause like environmental mold or toxins.

 

[The Matrix]

I have evaluated close to 1000 Dutch test over the past several years. I even help design some of the parameters on Dutch test. Dr Carrie Jones is a very good colleague of mine we are like best buds when it comes to this stuff. These tests will not find underlying pathology without detailed history which needs to be done through a skilled practitoner. Basically you fall into pattern many males are falling into I commonly see and speak about. Blood often shows just the opposite at the tissue level as there is an often an enviromental toxins or pathogen causing aromatase at the cellular level not in the blood. This is altering the tissue androgen to estradiol ratio. This exist thing happen to me. Luckily I was able to reverse engineering the main factor driving the issue was mold and elevated IL-6. Sadly practitoners do not know how to properly interpret these test as they look for the number and not the relationships. I see this all the time from even well known hormone and Anti aging doctors world wide

 

[l1fterp1nk]

I think you may be right. I do have the pesticide history. Which I believe may be playing a bigger role than I had thought originally.

 

[The Matrix]

I had a 60 year old on TRT having severe anxiety and brain fog. Estrogen in the blood twere low and Dutch test e2 were doubled higher then testosterone. We decided to unload the toxins as he was an avid golfer for many years. Glyphosates were extremely high as a results. With in several weeks of addressing multiple levels of his environment, mind set and biochemical pathways. The improvement has been life changing with improvement in body composition stamina, morning erectioms and neurological imbalances that were not being resolved with antidepressants. This was 8 weeks ago. I flew out to give a lecture on the “missing foundationals of health” to a small group of people. Later I found out were to be professional football players, high ups in Microsoft and others. I have been advocating this for approach for over a decade which people thought was just more snakes oil, but it now reality with clinical research validating it

 

[THOR 70]

I had a 60 year old on TRT having severe anxiety and brain fog. Estrogen in the blood twere low and Dutch test e2 were doubled higher then testosterone. We decided to unload the toxins as he was an avid golfer for many years. Glyphosates were extremely high as a results. With in several weeks of addressing multiple levels of his environment, mind set and biochemical pathways. The improvement has been life changing with improvement in body composition stamina, morning erectioms and neurological imbalances that were not being resolved with antidepressants. This was 8 weeks ago. I flew out to give a lecture on the “missing foundationals of health” to a small group of people. Later I found out were to be professional football players, high ups in Microsoft and others. I have been advocating this for approach for over a decade which people thought was just more snakes oil, but it now reality with clinical research validating it

What is the most common underlying cause of autoimmune diseases that you have seen?

 

[The Matrix]

What is the most common underlying cause of autoimmune diseases that you have seen?

There is never a cause. It is a multifaceted immune system response from Multiple factors Which clients history and labs can provide datA to

 

[l1fterp1nk]

That’s incredible! My issue is even if I recognize the pesticide is an issue. I don’t have any clue what would need to be changed in order to reverse the damage.

 

[The Matrix]

That’s incredible! My issue is even if I recognize the pesticide is an issue. I don’t have any clue what would need to be changed in order to reverse the damage.

Most don’t and doctors are clueless. I am fortune to have direct connection with the people doing the research on this topic. Even one colleague I helped train will be presenting in front of Congress her findings on how glyphosates is metabolized through the kidneys. Please look up research on colleague Dr Seneff. Glyphosates are child’s play to what is yet to come. Glyphosates will shut down SULT2A1 pathway which is responsible for cortisol production from adrenals

 

[l1fterp1nk]

That is extremely interesting! Thank you, I’ll look it up!

My doctor and I have decided to start some TRT. I did one injection of Test Cyp at 100mg on Thursday. For estrogen control I am on both Euromedica’s curapro DIM / Pure’s Indole 3-Carbinol. I’m thinking we will be at the 200mg weekly test mark. Split into two injections. Any input on HCG or the best way for me to mitigate fertility issues, pending they don’t already exist?

I don’t intent to be on TRT for life, I just cannot feel like garbage anymore. Goal is to feel good, while trying to fix the natural conversion issues.

 

[The Matrix]

Then you do not want to be at 200 mgs per week it will only make suppression on HPTA harder.
Your doctor should have done a clomid challenge before TRT. This would have been the appropriate steps. Seen hundreds of these cases . I know where the loops holes are in hormone manipulation. See same mistakes over again and again causing unnecessary months or even yearsnot well. It all could have been prevented ..

 

[l1fterp1nk]

I thought about trying a Clomid run first. What would be your recommendation.

 

[The Matrix]

Clomid challenge should be managed by your doctor. In these cases I would reverse engineer the underlying pathology then find out how it biochemically interferes with endocrine or other symptoms to explain the person symptoms

 

[sammpedd88]

That is extremely interesting! Thank you, I’ll look it up!

My doctor and I have decided to start some TRT. I did one injection of Test Cyp at 100mg on Thursday. For estrogen control I am on both Euromedica’s curapro DIM / Pure’s Indole 3-Carbinol. I’m thinking we will be at the 200mg weekly test mark. Split into two injections. Any input on HCG or the best way for me to mitigate fertility issues, pending they don’t already exist?

I don’t intent to be on TRT for life, I just cannot feel like garbage anymore. Goal is to feel good, while trying to fix the natural conversion issues.

TRT is for life, if you in fact need to be on it. Try every other option to restart your natural production. If you end up needing TRT, it will be for life...period. DIM and I3C suck for E2 control. I tried both of them and ended up on adex. Why did you mention 200 mgs of test a week? Is that a goal for you to be pinning that much? Just curious on your thoughts.

 

[l1fterp1nk]

I mean the inpatient part of me wants results quickly. So maybe that’s where the 200 came from. In reality I want to do as little as possible to still feel well. I understand that generally TRT is for life. I think at 23 I should be capable of not needed it. The goal is to fix the conversion issue and hopefully go back on line with natural. I plan to do bloods regularly in the beginning until something gets dialed in.

 

[sammpedd88]

I mean the inpatient part of me wants results quickly. So maybe that’s where the 200 came from. In reality I want to do as little as possible to still feel well. I understand that generally TRT is for life. I think at 23 I should be capable of not needed it. The goal is to fix the conversion issue and hopefully go back on line with natural. I plan to do bloods regularly in the beginning until something gets dialed in.

You should really try a clomid restart. Talk to your dr about it and if he doesn’t know what it is, run and find another dr. Most dr’s aren’t well versed in hormone replacement.

 

[l1fterp1nk]

I think I’m going to look into that