2020 BEST STIM FREE and HORMONAL FREE (no prohormone) STACK

jasonkid123

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I am 36 years old male, 5'8" 198 pounds, 19% bodyfat, with 20 years of natty weightlifting experience. My 6 pack weight weight would be 175 pounds.

Recently, due to my mother's health and running in and out of hospital, stress, lack of sleep and bad diet, gained a lot of fat due to bad diet and no regularly scheduled gym time, I've ballooned up from 175 pounds 6 pack to 198 belly with strength loss on all lifts.

Would like to find a stack for burning belly fat and bodyfat while keeping or increasing strength.

I eat one meal a day, at night because of intermittent fasting, so I overeat TOOO much at night (sometimes 16 cookies or 2 boxes of pizza, so craving is a real issue because I can be physically full and yet continue eating)



Here are the stacks I have in mind:

Olympic Labs Assass1nate
EvoMuse DCP
Iron Legion Invictus


True Shred by Hard Rock Supplements
Olympic Labs EP1Logue
EvoMuse BMP




Considering my weight, height, age, eating habit and years of experience lifting, and belly fat, what would you say would be the best stimulant free non hormonal stack fat burning stack with strength gains?


A) True Shred + DCP + OL Assass1nate
B) True Shred + DCP + Iron Legion Invinctus
C) True Shred +OL Assass1nate + Iron Legion Invinctus

D) BMP + DCP + OL Assass1nate
E) BMP + DCP + Iron Legion Invinctus
F) BMP +OL Assass1nate + Iron Legion Invinctus

G) OL EP1LOGUE + DCP + OL Assass1nate
H) OL EP1LOGUE + DCP + Iron Legion Invinctus
I) OL EP1LOGUE +OL Assass1nate + Iron Legion Invinctus



Please advise on the best stack or even any suggestion would be greatly appreciated
 
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I am 36 years old male, 5'8" 198 pounds, 19% bodyfat, with 20 years of natty weightlifting experience. My 6 pack weight weight would be 175 pounds.

Recently, due to my mother's health and running in and out of hospital, stress, lack of sleep and bad diet, gained a lot of fat due to bad diet and no regularly scheduled gym time, I've ballooned up from 175 pounds 6 pack to 198 belly with strength loss on all lifts.

Would like to find a stack for burning belly fat and bodyfat while keeping or increasing strength.

I eat one meal a day, at night because of intermittent fasting, so I overeat TOOO much at night (sometimes 16 cookies or 2 boxes of pizza, so craving is a real issue because I can be physically full and yet continue eating)



Here are the stacks I have in mind:

Olympic Labs Assass1nate
EvoMuse DCP
Iron Legion Invictus


True Shred by Hard Rock Supplements
Olympic Labs EP1Logue
EvoMuse BMP




Considering my weight, height, age, eating habit and years of experience lifting, and belly fat, what would you say would be the best stimulant free non hormonal stack fat burning stack with strength gains?


A) True Shred + DCP + OL Assass1nate
B) True Shred + DCP + Iron Legion Invinctus
C) True Shred +OL Assass1nate + Iron Legion Invinctus

D) BMP + DCP + OL Assass1nate
E) BMP + DCP + Iron Legion Invinctus
F) BMP +OL Assass1nate + Iron Legion Invinctus

G) OL EP1LOGUE + DCP + OL Assass1nate
H) OL EP1LOGUE + DCP + Iron Legion Invinctus
I) OL EP1LOGUE +OL Assass1nate + Iron Legion Invinctus



Please advise on the best stack or even any suggestion would be greatly appreciated
In all honesty with your 20 years of natty experience if you just clean up this .....


I eat one meal a day, at night because of intermittent fasting, so I overeat TOOO much at night (sometimes 16 cookies or 2 boxes of pizza, so craving is a real issue because I can be physically full and yet continue eating)

Then devote 6 months of good nutrition and some hard work you should be able to get back were you want to be without any of those stacks! Just keep it simple, get your staples and rock on.

Best of luck to you!!!
 

jasonkid123

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In all honesty with your 20 years of natty experience if you just clean up this .....


I eat one meal a day, at night because of intermittent fasting, so I overeat TOOO much at night (sometimes 16 cookies or 2 boxes of pizza, so craving is a real issue because I can be physically full and yet continue eating)

Then devote 6 months of good nutrition and some hard work you should be able to get back were you want to be without any of those stacks! Just keep it simple, get your staples and rock on.

Best of luck to you!!!
Yes I agree, but I'm stuck in a rut right now, and need some motivation to get back into the game. Also harder when you get older
 
Resolve10

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You are going to need to fix that 16 cookies thing first, if you don't dial in the diet the supplements won't matter.

Once that is taken are of I'd do either:

1) Ep1logue + DCP + BMP
2) Ep1logue + BMP + Assas1nate

Ep1logue will help the most out of the things you've mentioned for performance/strength.

BMP is like recomp/fat loss in a bottle.

DCP or Assass1nate depending on how you want to target some fat loss.
 

jasonkid123

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You are going to need to fix that 16 cookies thing first, if you don't dial in the diet the supplements won't matter.

Once that is taken are of I'd do either:

1) Ep1logue + DCP + BMP
2) Ep1logue + BMP + Assas1nate

Ep1logue will help the most out of the things you've mentioned for performance/strength.

BMP is like recomp/fat loss in a bottle.

DCP or Assass1nate depending on how you want to target some fat loss.
Thank you for the response

What's the difference between DCP and Assas1nate and how do they target the fat loss?

From my understanding, Assass1nate partitions the food you eat, namely carbs so that it fixes fat loss through the channel (am I correct?) and I don't really know how DCP attacks fat loss.

My primary concern is belly fat and lower back fat. I don't really care about weight loss as much as I do about actual fat loss

also Can I take DCP and Assass1nate together? or is that too much?
 
Ricky10

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I would focus more on supplements that help control cortisol/stress levels which is likely playing a factor in your poor dietary choices. Your “intermittent fasting” is more reminiscent of binge eating. Getting a handle on that is going to do more than any GDA type product for your overall metabolic health.

Secondly, I would prioritize supplements that will produce the most bang for your buck for your purposes. I have used all of the supplements you are considering quite extensively (except for one because it induced horrendous acid reflux) and have wasted lots of money on trial and error and/or the latest hyped supplements.

There are 3 supplements that would SIGNIFICANTLY assist you with your goals on many levels

True Shred
Iron Legion Invictus
Iron Legion V11-KT

Your sugar and junk food carb cravings will dissipate
Your energy levels, metabolism, and mental well-being (and likely sleep) will improve
Libido, vascularity, strength, and recovery in the gym will improve

Before you know it, you will look in the mirror and not believe your eyes!


Run all 3 products fully dosed for 2 months and thank me later (y)

Wait 1 month and repeat- because you will definitely want to!
 
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Resolve10

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Thank you for the response

What's the difference between DCP and Assas1nate and how do they target the fat loss?

From my understanding, Assass1nate partitions the food you eat, namely carbs so that it fixes fat loss through the channel (am I correct?) and I don't really know how DCP attacks fat loss.

My primary concern is belly fat and lower back fat. I don't really care about weight loss as much as I do about actual fat loss

also Can I take DCP and Assass1nate together? or is that too much?
I'll try not to get to in depth (as it doesn't always need to be complicated).

DCP essentially works through free up fatty acids so you can burn them (so you burn your own body fat more effectively).

Assass1nate also increases fatty oxidation, but yes works through methods of blocking and preferentially using glucose/carbs more effectively.

Losing fat overall is going to help you with losing it from the belly and back. Most people are after actual fat loss as well and I would still focus on losing weight consistently, as unless you are on hormones you aren't going to be gaining enough actual muscle tissue to offset losses of weight from fat.

You could take together, but it is also a matter of cost vs benefit. I'd choose one or the other for now. The reason I picked the three I did out of what you mentioned is they all do seem to work "differently" enough to cover a broader spectrum for results, again assuming diet and training get put into proper places.
 

jasonkid123

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I would focus more on supplements that help control cortisol/stress levels which is likely playing a factor in your poor dietary choices. Your “intermittent fasting” is more reminiscent of binge eating. Getting a handle on that is going to do more than any GDA type product for your overall metabolic health.

Secondly, I would prioritize supplements that will produce the most bang for your buck for your purposes. I have used all of the supplements you are considering quite extensively (except for one because it induced horrendous acid reflux) and have wasted lots of money on trial and error and/or the latest hyped supplements.

There are 3 supplements that would SIGNIFICANTLY assist you with your goals on many levels

True Shred
Iron Legion Invictus
Iron Legion V11-KT

Your sugar and junk food carb cravings will dissipate
Your energy levels, metabolism, and mental well-being (and likely sleep) will improve
Libido, vascularity, strength, and recovery in the gym will improve

Before you know it, you will look in the mirror and not believe your eyes!


Run all 3 products fully dosed for 2 months and thank me later (y)

Wait 1 month and repeat- because you will definitely want to!
Out of curiosity, which one gave you heartburn?

It looks like Iron Legion Invictus controls cortisol level, but what exactly does Iron Legion v-11 KT do?


and what are your thoughts on DCP? Assass1nate and BMP?
 
Ricky10

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Out of curiosity, which one gave you heartburn?

It looks like Iron Legion Invictus controls cortisol level, but what exactly does Iron Legion v-11 KT do?


and what are your thoughts on DCP? Assass1nate and BMP?
IL VII-KT will also help maintain healthy cortisol levels (like Invictus), but this product is going to be the one that increases thermogenesis and RMR (resting metabolic rate) to help you shred that stubborn fat. It may seem like combining Invictus, VII-KT, and True Shred is overdoing it with cortisol control ingredients, but it’s not. Invictus is the only product that people have reported some joint pain- so you could just back off on that to a half dose if necessary. 7-Keto must be used in high doses to be effective...so the oral dose in True Shred combined with the VII-KT is where it will shine. Then you have the other ingredients in True Shred that look rather unspectacular on paper, but the stuff just simply works and it completes the whole package!

DCP is the one I couldn’t tolerate due to the acid reflux side effect. I gave it to a friend to try and he also had the same problem and subsequently gave it to someone else...haha. Honestly, you won’t need it anyway. If I were to get a non stim fat burner like that again, I would try SNS Lean Edge.

Assass1nate is a nice product with some spectacular ingredients for metabolic health- but it just wasn’t a wow type supplement in terms of actual body composition benefits for me. I’m glad to see it’s back though and would get it again, but not as a high priority supplement.

I initially seemed to respond fairly well to BMP in terms of acute strength benefits, muscle fullness, and maybe some endurance, but even that diminished over time. It seems that I may be a non-responder after my six month run and saw no reason to continue ongoing use - so I actually just recently stopped and didn’t notice any difference since stopping. I must already have plenty of BMPs floating around my body naturally :D
 

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IL VII-KT will also help maintain healthy cortisol levels (like Invictus), but this product is going to be the one that increases thermogenesis and RMR (resting metabolic rate) to help you shred that stubborn fat. It may seem like combining Invictus, VII-KT, and True Shred is overdoing it with cortisol control ingredients, but it’s not. Invictus is the only product that people have reported some joint pain- so you could just back off on that to a half dose if necessary. 7-Keto must be used in high doses to be effective...so the oral dose in True Shred combined with the VII-KT is where it will shine. Then you have the other ingredients in True Shred that look rather unspectacular on paper, but the stuff just simply works and it completes the whole package!

DCP is the one I couldn’t tolerate due to the acid reflux side effect. I gave it to a friend to try and he also had the same problem and subsequently gave it to someone else...haha. Honestly, you won’t need it anyway. If I were to get a non stim fat burner like that again, I would try SNS Lean Edge.

Assass1nate is a nice product with some spectacular ingredients for metabolic health- but it just wasn’t a wow type supplement in terms of actual body composition benefits for me. I’m glad to see it’s back though and would get it again, but not as a high priority supplement.

I initially seemed to respond fairly well to BMP in terms of acute strength benefits, muscle fullness, and maybe some endurance, but even that diminished over time. It seems that I may be a non-responder after my six month run and saw no reason to continue ongoing use - so I actually just recently stopped and didn’t notice any difference since stopping. I must already have plenty of BMPs floating around my body naturally :D
oh wow this is very thorough! I really appreciate this. As far as Invinctus and VII-KT, I looked at the site and it seems to be droplets. where are the best places to drop them and at what time? And can I use them together? or drop them separately at different times?


Also forgot to ask you about OL EP1LOGUE?
 

jasonkid123

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also I have a hard time sleeping and remaining asleep at night, do you have any recommendation for best sleep aid?
 
Ricky10

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EP1LOGUE is a nicely potent (-)-epi product for sure...and I love that ingredient! Personally, I don’t seem to notice much from the addition or UroB per say, but I love Vaso6 for pump/nitric oxide benefits. For fat loss specifically, it wouldn’t be a first line supplement in my book. I personally prefer Follidrone by BLR as my (-)-epi source, and the Ecklonia Cava content offers it’s own metabolic/fat loss benefits.

I would be happy to offer further input from my personal experience in regard to your other questions. Right now, I have to get ready to go workout...haha. I will respond later tonight!
 
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Resolve10

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Feel free to search my history I’ve logged BMP with awesome results and written reviews of Ep1logue (awesome maintaining training intensity and density/fullness during a cut).

DCP has been around forever with Dsade constantly striving to improve as new research comes out so it’s hard to top.

Sleep is so multifaceted it’s hard to recommend something without a lot of give or take there. Best bet is to build a sleep routine and then look for something if the habits and routine don’t seem to help.
 

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Like others have said I would look at your nutrition first. IF may not be for you right now if it's causing massive junk food binges. Eat whole foods say 2 - 3x's a day and see how that treats you and adjust frequency. Find what works for you as no supplement is going to help you without nutrition and sleep. Supplements should not even be considered until you get the fundamentals right.
 

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EP1LOGUE is a nicely potent (-)-epi product for sure...and I love that ingredient! Personally, I don’t seem to notice much from the addition or UroB per say, but I love Vaso6 for pump/nitric oxide benefits. For fat loss specifically, it wouldn’t be a first line supplement in my book. I personally prefer Follidrone by BLR as my (-)-epi source, and the Ecklonia Cava content offers it’s own metabolic/fat loss benefits.

I would be happy to offer further input from my personal experience in regard to your other questions. Right now, I have to get ready to go workout...haha. I will respond later tonight!
Yes please can you give me further input from your personal Experience?

Also I’m new to this forum, so this may sound like a dumb question but what is - - epi?


Also what’s your recommendation for sleep aid, if any?
 
Ricky10

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Yes please can you give me further input from your personal Experience?

Also I’m new to this forum, so this may sound like a dumb question but what is - - epi?


Also what’s your recommendation for sleep aid, if any?
(–)-epicatechin is a very popular natty anabolic ingredient that was initially brought to market as a proposed myostatin inhibitor that would in turn increase muscle growth. It likely doesn’t work through that MOA to any significant degree, but that is not its only claim to fame. You should definitely look it up. Ultimately, a majority of people do report acute strength and endurance benefits, and possibly some fat loss. Others report that they don’t note any benefits from it at all. While it would be nice to consider an (–)-epicatechin product, you’re going to have your hands full with other supplements that are more important for your overall goals. Natty supplements aren’t cheap...it adds up quick!

As far as a sleep aid, there is a good chance (noted by others) that it will also improve if you choose the Invictus/VII-KT/True Shred route. It doesn’t improve that aspect of my life enough for me personally, so I did continue to use a sleep supplement - as I have done for many years. My favorite was OL AMNES1A, which is currently not available but will be again within a few months. SNS is coming out with one too in the same time frame which should also be top notch. Right now, I take Genius Sleep and add in some valerian and lemon balm. It’s doing it’s job for the most part, but these types of products definitely require some individual experimentation. For what it’s worth though, I have never seen a negative review for OL AMNES1A.

On the topic of sleep, your second dose of Invictus for the day of 0.5ml, should not be used any later than ~5PM, as it has a tendency to actually disrupt sleep if taken any later and you want to get to bed at a reasonable time. Paradoxically, the metabolic enhancing action of VII-KT does not seem to effect sleep, so your second dose of 1ml can be closer to bedtime if necessary.

So yes, they are topical/transdermal products, and Iron Legion sets the gold standard in the category for their high quality with an exceptional carrier. The application process doesn’t have to be all that complicated. Just make sure it is applied to dry skin and try to at least shower once a day to keep your skin clean, and it prevents any buildup of the carrier from the prior day. Also, try to apply it a couple hours before you engage in activities that will make you sweat significantly, and even longer if you plan on swimming.

As far as actual application, I try to apply most of it on my clavicle area and down to my inner arm area. Supposedly you can do the top of your feet and backside of your knees too as alternatives. Inner thighs too if you aren’t too hairy there. Thinner areas of hairless skin are the main objective for optimal absorption. You can do both products at once- in different areas. Having said that, I also commonly let my Invictus dry a few minutes, and then have some overlap in my application of VII-KT on my arms for example. Essentially though, people tend to overthink this- just get the products on these thinner areas of clean dry skin and your GTG! It all falls into place once you do it..

Invictus: 0.5ml twice daily (titrate lower if joints start to hurt)
VII-KT: 1ml twice daily

The beauty of this too is that you start to see some dramatic results within ~ 2 weeks. You don’t have to wait until the second month to start hoping for changes and convincing yourself that you see a difference in the right light- only after a workout. This inspires confidence in the products and fuels your fire to do your part in keeping up with your end of the bargain.

Anything else to add @delsolrob, @thebigt, @enhanced, @ValiantThor08, and the countless other people who have had tremendous success with the Invictus/VII-KT combo?
 
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Ricky10

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@Ricky10 explained that a lot more thorough than I ever could have.
The combo really is incredible and produces exceptional results!
Well thanks :)

Your log, and Valiant’s are what inspired me to finally utilize both products as opposed to just Invictus which I had already used several times before in the past. It really brings it to an entirely different level! Your before and after pics after just 1 month were amazing!


 
enhanced

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Damn.. Now I'm considering running this again!! I'm now in trt and was contemplating a test/tren run this spring. Invictus would compliment it nicely.
 
XxFit4SwatxX

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What’s up pal, I’m currently running a nice stack. I’m running True Shred/EPI 2.0/ Alphamine/ Lean Mode non stim fat burner. I’m having some good results and had great results in the past running the True Shred. Follow my log it’s up and running now.
 

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So My true shred along with A bottle of invintis and VII KT arrived today. How should I take it?
 
XxFit4SwatxX

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So My true shred along with A bottle of invintis and VII KT arrived today. How should I take it?
I take my True Shred on an empty stomach when I wake up, then I take the second dose about 1 hour before dinner. I do not see it being a problem taking before bed. It’s non stimulant, I like to take 2 lean mode before bed with my ZMA.
 
LeanEngineer

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A and C looking good .
You can’t go wrong with any True Shred option IMO. Stufff really works
Agreed with this. I think Options B and C myself. True Shred is awesome.
 
Ricky10

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So My true shred along with A bottle of invintis and VII KT arrived today. How should I take it?
True Shred shouldn’t effect your sleep, and I have always taken mine on an empty stomach. Take it first thing in the morning along with your first dose of VII-KT and Invictus. Depending on how soon I was working out, I took my second dose of True Shred ~ 30 minutes before my workout as it definitely enhances your workout. If I worked out real close to my first dose, I would save it for later in the day, or just take 1 capsule and save the other for later. You just gotta get a feel for it..

The second dose of VII-KT was also a rewarding experience taken PWO but again, if you just took it an hour or two before...save it for later. Your second dose of Invictus is the one that is preferably taken post workout, but also 4-5 hours before you go to bed- as this is the one that can disrupt sleep. Particularly in the beginning stages while your body is getting used to it.
 

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I would focus more on supplements that help control cortisol/stress levels which is likely playing a factor in your poor dietary choices. Your “intermittent fasting” is more reminiscent of binge eating. Getting a handle on that is going to do more than any GDA type product for your overall metabolic health.

Secondly, I would prioritize supplements that will produce the most bang for your buck for your purposes. I have used all of the supplements you are considering quite extensively (except for one because it induced horrendous acid reflux) and have wasted lots of money on trial and error and/or the latest hyped supplements.

There are 3 supplements that would SIGNIFICANTLY assist you with your goals on many levels

True Shred
Iron Legion Invictus
Iron Legion V11-KT

Your sugar and junk food carb cravings will dissipate
Your energy levels, metabolism, and mental well-being (and likely sleep) will improve
Libido, vascularity, strength, and recovery in the gym will improve

Before you know it, you will look in the mirror and not believe your eyes!


Run all 3 products fully dosed for 2 months and thank me later (y)

Wait 1 month and repeat- because you will definitely want to!
If I can piggy back on this thread...

Would here be any benefit to True Shred with this stack if I'm not going to the gym? I may get an occasional p90x routine or cardio but my schedule has been crazy so the gym has been out for me for a while. I just ordered Invictus and V11-KT so can't wait for it to get here.
 
Ricky10

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If I can piggy back on this thread...

Would here be any benefit to True Shred with this stack if I'm not going to the gym? I may get an occasional p90x routine or cardio but my schedule has been crazy so the gym has been out for me for a while. I just ordered Invictus and V11-KT so can't wait for it to get here.
Crazy schedules and all that associated stress would make all 3 of these supplements shine quite well by combating those problems that make it difficult for many of us to make any significant progress in building muscle or losing fat. If you can’t workout any more frequently than you already do, maybe try to at least optimize your nutrition. True Shred, Invictus, and 7-KT actually make a large impact without any changes, but a little help along the way would make it that much more rewarding!
 
thehogsters

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Here is my weight loss stack.

HGH 4iu mixed with vitamin B complex
Broken Arrow preworkout
Faster cardio and weight training in the AM

Evomuse DCP
SNS reduce XT
Vasoburn morning and night. Just finished my bottle and switched to Evomuse Hypernova.
 

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