1st cycle went wrong, may attempt 2nd (epi) or restart?

[Lats_Man]

Hey everyone, this place has given me a wealth of knowledge and I greatly appreciate all of the information.

To be honest this may sound insane of me, and if it does please let me know.

During the summer as per the advice of multiple friends that have all run multiple "ProHormones" I did some research and bought IML's M-Sten + 4-Andro to gain mass and strength. I bought some nolvadex for PCT from one of my friends, which I'm now not entirely convinced was more than baking soda, advanced cycle support, milk thistle, E-Control for an AI, and Ultra Male RX. After 15 days of running the cycle at 2 caps a day I could no longer handle the sides. The size and strength games were more than I wished for and mentally I felt pretty insane. After this I ran the "nolvadex" along with continued use of the support sups.

Since then I have done much more research into PH's and anabolic's in general and realize what I did was pretty ****ing dumb. I'm hoping that there is no permanent damage as it only lasted 2 weeks but I'm not 100% sure I've completed recovered nearly 6 months later. Right before I cut the cycle off I began having an itchy and puffy right nipple. This isn't as bad now as it was from what I believe but at times it does get hard even when the left one does not.

As far as sex goes things are much better than they were shortly after ending the cycle but things still don't function as 100% as before and some days are much better than others. I did have bloodwork done shortly after stoping the nolva and the levels all came back within range. I still didn't feel completely comfortable with this and after speaking with my doctor he essentially said I'm fine as long as my nipples aren't leaking there's nothing to worry about; however he does not specialize in any of this.


Sorry for the wall of text, now that the background is out of the way I see myself as having 4 options.

1) Do nothing and let time pass, assume it's in my head and things will be fine.

2) After researching other people's issues it could make sense to try attempting what some called a clomid restart and hoping that things improve.

3) Finding a doctor specifically for hormones in my university town away from home.

4) This option may seem bat**** but from the research I've done it seem's like I could potentially kill two birds with one stone. instead of going straight to a clomid restart or another option It seems that Epistane is not only much much milder than M-Sten but could also have anti-gyno properties to assist in the issue with the right side of my chest. I received from a friend a bottle of Xcel Razor-E which would be a cycle of Epistane at 30/30/30/30 alongside Furazan at 150/150/150/150. Following this relatively mild cycle I could add in the clomid and whatever else is recommended in order to end up happy all around.

Realistically if option 4 sounds like a terrible idea then I have no issue waiting on the epistane+furazdrol; however if it couldn't hurt and could actually help resolve left over problems I am more than willing to give it a shot.

If any of you can comment on this or give any advice whatsoever it would truly be greatly appreciated.

Thanks brothers

 

[smshannon001]

Hey everyone, this place has given me a wealth of knowledge and I greatly appreciate all of the information. To be honest this may sound insane of me, and if it does please let me know. During the summer as per the advice of multiple friends that have all run multiple "ProHormones" I did some research and bought IML's M-Sten + 4-Andro to gain mass and strength. I bought some nolvadex for PCT from one of my friends, which I'm now not entirely convinced was more than baking soda, advanced cycle support, milk thistle, E-Control for an AI, and Ultra Male RX. After 15 days of running the cycle at 2 caps a day I could no longer handle the sides. The size and strength games were more than I wished for and mentally I felt pretty insane. After this I ran the "nolvadex" along with continued use of the support sups. Since then I have done much more research into PH's and anabolic's in general and realize what I did was pretty ****ing dumb. I'm hoping that there is no permanent damage as it only lasted 2 weeks but I'm not 100% sure I've completed recovered nearly 6 months later. Right before I cut the cycle off I began having an itchy and puffy right nipple. This isn't as bad now as it was from what I believe but at times it does get hard even when the left one does not. As far as sex goes things are much better than they were shortly after ending the cycle but things still don't function as 100% as before and some days are much better than others. I did have bloodwork done shortly after stoping the nolva and the levels all came back within range. I still didn't feel completely comfortable with this and after speaking with my doctor he essentially said I'm fine as long as my nipples aren't leaking there's nothing to worry about; however he does not specialize in any of this. Sorry for the wall of text, now that the background is out of the way I see myself as having 4 options. 1) Do nothing and let time pass, assume it's in my head and things will be fine. 2) After researching other people's issues it could make sense to try attempting what some called a clomid restart and hoping that things improve. 3) Finding a doctor specifically for hormones in my university town away from home. 4) This option may seem bat**** but from the research I've done it seem's like I could potentially kill two birds with one stone. instead of going straight to a clomid restart or another option It seems that Epistane is not only much much milder than M-Sten but could also have anti-gyno properties to assist in the issue with the right side of my chest. I received from a friend a bottle of Xcel Razor-E which would be a cycle of Epistane at 30/30/30/30 alongside Furazan at 150/150/150/150. Following this relatively mild cycle I could add in the clomid and whatever else is recommended in order to end up happy all around. Realistically if option 4 sounds like a terrible idea then I have no issue waiting on the epistane+furazdrol; however if it couldn't hurt and could actually help resolve left over problems I am more than willing to give it a shot. If any of you can comment on this or give any advice whatsoever it would truly be greatly appreciated. Thanks brothers

If estro is in normal range then no need for letro.

Look up raloxifene for gyno. Should be more effective than Nolva. Try and get pharmaceutical grade

 

[Lats_Man]

If estro is in normal range then no need for letro.

Look up raloxifene for gyno. Should be more effective than Nolva. Try and get pharmaceutical grade

Okay, and the estro was in normal range but the bloodtest was taken shortly after the nolva and e-control so that may have skewed results but I think it's fine.

Any thoughts on running the epi/furazan before using raloxifene?

 

[smshannon001]

Okay, and the estro was in normal range but the bloodtest was taken shortly after the nolva and e-control so that may have skewed results but I think it's fine. Any thoughts on running the epi/furazan before using raloxifene?

Any hormonal fluctuation can aggravate gyno.

Masteron would be the best Roid for gyno, but from what you've stated about your situation I think 2-3 months on raloxifene before jumping on cycle

 

[Lats_Man]

Any hormonal fluctuation can aggravate gyno.

Masteron would be the best Roid for gyno, but from what you've stated about your situation I think 2-3 months on raloxifene before jumping on cycle

Great thanks, I'm looking to find a legit source for the raloxifene now as I really don't want to end up with a bunk serm again. After running the raloxifene then I'll probably save the cycle for summertime.

Any advice for the raloxifene dosing then if you think it's smart to stay on that long? Also would the dosing be different if it's only research quality, having a hard time finding pharma atm.

 

[smshannon001]

Great thanks, I'm looking to find a legit source for the raloxifene now as I really don't want to end up with a bunk serm again. After running the raloxifene then I'll probably save the cycle for summertime. Any advice for the raloxifene dosing then if you think it's smart to stay on that long? Also would the dosing be different if it's only research quality, having a hard time finding pharma atm.

Pharma you'll probably have to look overseas

120mg for 3 weeks then down to 60-90mg for 9 weeks

It really depends on how long the gyno is there and how strongly it's bound.

The Ralox may shrink it til it's unnoticeable or it may barely reduce it at all.
But is rather try paying 200 first on pharmaceuticals before dishing out 6000 for surgery

 

[Lats_Man]

Pharma you'll probably have to look overseas

120mg for 3 weeks then down to 60-90mg for 9 weeks

It really depends on how long the gyno is there and how strongly it's bound.

The Ralox may shrink it til it's unnoticeable or it may barely reduce it at all.
But is rather try paying 200 first on pharmaceuticals before dishing out 6000 for surgery

True, I do have a peptide source with solid reviews claiming at least 98.6% purity I may have to settle for.

Part of me still thinking it could be worth running the epistane and furazan now with the ralox and nolva on hand since I could order both together. Possibly begin the Ralox on the 4th week alongside it since it's only a 4 week cycle. Any other opinions on this from you or others? Not trying to sound too angsty lol

 

[yates84]

Epistane is not a gyno cure and should not be used this way. Epistane has a chance of rebound which would really have you in trouble. Take care of your gyno with the ralox and once it's gone you can consider a new cycle.

 

[smshannon001]

True, I do have a peptide source with solid reviews claiming at least 98.6% purity I may have to settle for. Part of me still thinking it could be worth running the epistane and furazan now with the ralox and nolva on hand since I could order both together. Possibly begin the Ralox on the 4th week alongside it since it's only a 4 week cycle. Any other opinions on this from you or others? Not trying to sound too angsty lol

GE i wOnder who that source is.. Bunk probably


Don't run the epi fruza until u get the gyno under control

 

[Lats_Man]

GE i wOnder who that source is.. Bunk probably


Don't run the epi fruza until u get the gyno under control

Fair enough, so I'm guessing the Ralox needs to be found pharma grade and that peptides aren't the way to go. I really don't wanna end up with bunk stuff again.

 

[Lats_Man]

Epistane is not a gyno cure and should not be used this way. Epistane has a chance of rebound which would really have you in trouble. Take care of your gyno with the ralox and once it's gone you can consider a new cycle.

That sounds like a solid idea. I'm hoping this hasn't gotten to the point where it's hardened too much to be taken care of without surgery.

 

[Volvo140G]

tl;dr

 

[smshannon001]

Fair enough, so I'm guessing the Ralox needs to be found pharma grade and that peptides aren't the way to go. I really don't wanna end up with bunk stuff again.

You should find something you can take every (all) day. Maybe from a "chemist".

 

[Volvo140G]

RC companies are bogus, you're correct OP

 

[Lats_Man]

You should find something you can take every (all) day. Maybe from a "chemist".

RC companies are bogus, you're correct OP

Alright I'll keep searching around for something more legit then. Honestly I'm torn now between wether or not it may be body fat in my chest and not gyno after looking at more threads on here.

 

[Lats_Man]

Found a legit pharma source for Raloxifene, it's Ralista and looks trusted from lots of reviews. I'm planning on going ahead and ordering this for now alongside ordering nolva and clomid to stock up from the same source.

 

[smshannon001]

Try and post some photos of the chest for us. Not in a cold room.
From side and front

 

[Lats_Man]

Try and post some photos of the chest for us. Not in a cold room.
From side and front

I'll go and take some pictures now before heading to the gym.

 

[Lats_Man]

Front - Front Camera

Front - Mirror

Left - Front Camera

Left - Mirror

Right - Front Camera

Right - Mirror

 

[frankz2]

Definitely bodyfat.

 

[Lats_Man]

I also do have mild scoliosis with a bit of a rotated spine which could impact the look of things as well, making me think something is off on the right.

 

[Lats_Man]

Definitely bodyfat.

With that being the case do you think running the epi/furaz cycle would be safe or should I cut with EC stack instead first?

 

[frankz2]

I'm not a fan of hormonals unless leaner. It honestly looks like you have plenty of room to go naturally before using them at all.

But there are others in this thread with much more knowledge in that area than myself.

 

[Lats_Man]

I'm not a fan of hormonals unless leaner. It honestly looks like you have plenty of room to go naturally before using them at all.

Cool, appreciate the honesty.

 

[smshannon001]

No roids til you make more natty gains.

I got to 5'11 220-225 lbs before trying anything.

I suggest being 15% or below before using hormones.


Learn how to diet, train, and gain! Then you will know how to maintain your muscle AFTER using roids. If you don't have a solid base you will not be able to sustain the gains made from hormones

 

[Matthersby]

No roids til you make more natty gains.

I got to 5'11 220-225 lbs before trying anything.

I suggest being 15% or below before using hormones.

Learn how to diet, train, and gain! Then you will know how to maintain your muscle AFTER using roids. If you don't have a solid base you will not be able to sustain the gains made from hormones

This is the best advice I've seen all day.
Spend most of your time reading the training/diet articles and threads. Get it all dialed in over the next few years. And during that time, learn a little more about all these hormonal products. Using a steroid to treat the side effects of a steroid isn't your best course of action. It likely won't hurt if you run a quick gyno reversal protocol(although I didn't notice any in your pics), so go for it if you really want. I like nolva/low dose letro but ralox is quite popular.

 

[ArmstrongBrah]

You should find something you can take every (all) day. Maybe from a "chemist".

You sly dog!

 

[smshannon001]

You sly dog!

Haha. Rereading it now, it looks absolutely retarded

 

[ArmstrongBrah]

Haha. Rereading it now, it looks absolutely retarded

It clicked with me instantly as I use a chemist who is available all day. But definitely laughed out loud!

 

[Ryan1986]

These guys are heading you in the right direction in my opinion. If you can improve with out the supps that is the best route to go. Once you hit that plateau and just need a little nudge to help you surpass it and im talking about a plateau that you may not see for 2-3 years of committed lifting. Once your body is on point, you have put on some good gains and dropped some body fat and are in the top 10% or so at your local gym as far as obvious results/ commitment goes I wouldn't mess with the stuff just yet. That will also give you plenty of time to learn up on it and go into it with the knowledge or equivalent of having a degree on the subject. You will be much happier and a lot less paranoid then too!

 

[Ryan1986]

Just remember this is a lifestyle, be patient and enjoy the slow progress. Its a never ending race of self improvement. You will never be good enough if you get into this lifestyle. Im sure most guys here can vouch for that. You will always wanna change something, these compounds are tempting but patience is key!

 

[ArmstrongBrah]

These guys are heading you in the right direction in my opinion. If you can improve with out the supps that is the best route to go. Once you hit that plateau and just need a little nudge to help you surpass it and im talking about a plateau that you may not see for 2-3 years of committed lifting. Once your body is on point, you have put on some good gains and dropped some body fat and are in the top 10% or so at your local gym as far as obvious results/ commitment goes I wouldn't mess with the stuff just yet. That will also give you plenty of time to learn up on it and go into it with the knowledge or equivalent of having a degree on the subject. You will be much happier and a lot less paranoid then too!

This is 100% accurate. The self recognition is a great feeling! I'm still growing but I feel my body is ready to take things to the next level of training. I don't mean to rip on any of the younger people here but I do see a lot of threads about cycling heaps of DS/PH/AAS and they seem to be 18 and under. A true athlete and fitness fanatic will understand the way the body works long before they enter the realm of supplementing with such compounds. Like previously mentioned, it takes years to plateau the body.. But the mind has the ability to continue to grow and retain knowledge. Be smart, grow smart, die big and smart! Remember it's a marathon not a sprint.

 

[Lats_Man]

Awesome advice guys, I greatly appreciate it and it's honestly greatly encouraging. For now I'm gonna keep doing what you all are saying. I'm going to pass on the gyno supplements for the time being as well and cut until I'm real lean and work on bulking while staying low bf%.

Thanks everyone!