19-nor derivative long term metabolite effects

[benjamfzb]

Hi All,

Disclaimer. There's humble admitting of lack of knowledge in this thread.

I have been plunged into research for at least 20 hours now. Started with a discussion with friends about running TNT, researching potency/less well known sides, to even looking at potential sides of previous Trest cycles.

Basically I now feel its an appropriate time to open a thread to get some other opinions in as people have a tendency of finding whats convenient to them after excess research and i want to eliminate personnal optimistic bias. So lets get to it.

Around this forum the term "hard shutdown" is common. Tbh i always thought this refered to as 0 test during cycle and very difficult PCT. I am realizing this assumption was wrong. I have also heard people say that deca/tren/trest should only be used if you blast and cruise. Its known that nandrolone derivatives can be detected in urine for as long as 12-18 months through long term metabolites. These metabolites can inhibit FSH and LH. Wall of text finally getting to the point...

How significant of a "long term minor suppression" can these metabolites have for 1+ years following a cycles end? You always hear horror stories and HPTA not recovering and permanent ED but... are these faint traces which are a concern because of anti-doping regulations something relevant to someone not on TRT wanting his "natural" test levels at a decent close-to-normal for the 8-9 other months of the year? Hoping to get some good discussion, anecdotes and perhaps even some responsible folks who had bloods done in on this.

Bonus question/topic: at this point I am just about convinced of the whole 12-18 month partial suppression thing with tren/deca/IMtrest so I would like to talk about TD/Oral trest ace. They are 19nor derivatives as well but as you all know theres far less information and use of them. This is probably the only forum where its so common from what i have seen. Do you guys think the td/orals bring as heavy consequences or does the short half life make them an exception to this "rule"?(see the hopeful bias mentioned earlier) its the same compound with different administration... my broscience would assume that it probably has the same long term issue but less severe since these two methods absorb far less than IM and amount to micro doses.


Are all 19nors including oral/td trest poison you should avoid unless blast/cruise or trt?

In my case I did two 3 month winter/spring runs of TD trest. 2020 and 2021. Never experienced sides. I feel great to this day. Never got bloods but honestly theres no health concerns or suppression signs other than the obvious chipping away at natural test every cycle does. Honestly, until i got into this research binge the stuff practically changed my life for the better and i have 0 regrets. Without bloods its all speculation at best but still. If anything has changed now that i think about it its that 9ish months after my 2020 run my loads had gotta noticeably bigger i recall... now i cant tell because the nympho ive been with for 10 months drains me 3 times a day and will pout and complain if i cant keep up so i cant recharge for 2-3 days to see the maximum load capacity lol.

I have a tendency of writing walls of text and losing my train of thought. Anyway theres a few topics to discuss but how will this affect my future drug use? Tren/deca/im/oral trest are off the table... too hardcore. I do see myself doing trt maybe in my mid 40s onwards but im going on 29 so id like to stay at one cycle a year max. After months of reflection and contemplating quitting I honestly decided that this lifestyle was something i enjoy at the level i do it. Once you become the muscle/hot guy of your extended social group its difficult slipping back to average. Yaddi yadda you all know why we do this. Altho i dont compete. SO. I do love TD trest. It changed my body tremendously and i never FELT any bad **** from it. This discussion will decide if I will keep incorporating it with low dose test and orals or if i just say fck it and run 500 test and orals in the future and never touch any form of 19nors again unless on trt.

 

[Jstrong20]

I’m 43 and running trest now and not worried. Lol. I started cycling in my early 20s and have ran numerous cycles 1000 a week of test, 700 mgs a week of tren, anadrol, superdrol, m1t, etc. have also gone years with takeoff nothing. And I feel absolutely fine when I’m off. Sex drive is good, mood is good, stay lean easily with a good diet. I’ll use trt when I feel it’s necceaaary but at 43 I don’t need it yet.

 

[benjamfzb]

I’m 43 and running trest now and not worried. Lol. I started cycling in my early 20s and have ran numerous cycles 1000 a week of test, 700 mgs a week of tren, anadrol, superdrol, m1t, etc. have also gone years with takeoff nothing. And I feel absolutely fine when I’m off. Sex drive is good, mood is good, stay lean easily with a good diet. I’ll use trt when I feel it’s necceaaary but at 43 I don’t need it yet.

Fair enough dude. Im just trying to revisit the cautious science side. Im surprised nobody has chimed in on the 12 to 18 month suppression thing. I was looking forward to the discussion. Maybe the op was too long lol

 

[Nac]

I can't really comment on the specifics of the longterm metabolite effects of 19nors, I haven't really been interested in researching it due to being permanently "on".

Hypothetically, if I were still a cycler/PCT guy who only periodically used AAS, I think I'd steer well clear of 19nors. If I felt I *really needed* to use them, that I couldn't accomplish my goals without them, I'd consider going on permanently. In this scenario, I'd need to consider what I'm prepared to compromise on, and the reasons why I had been reluctant to stay on in the first place. But at the end of the day, if you're a recreational lifter/user (ie not competing), I honestly don't think you "need" 19nors to accomplish any reasonable goal; or, you could probably reach those goals using just Test and DHT derivatives.

As to the potential difference between various administration's...at the end of the day, 2 main variables would seem to ring true for these compounds regardless of how they are specifically taken. 1, it is the same compound regardless of administration. The specifics of its pharmacodynamics might vary but...2, as long as the dose you administer still falls within what is considered the "effective range", it will essentially have the same properties. So, even though TD might have relatively poor uptake/absorption compared to IM, as long as the dose is still "effective", you should expect similar biological effects.

I mean that's a very crude way to put it, and it misses a lot of nuance, but I think it would be accurate at least in a practical sense.

 

[benjamfzb]

I can't really comment on the specifics of the longterm metabolite effects of 19nors, I haven't really been interested in researching it due to being permanently "on".

Hypothetically, if I were still a cycler/PCT guy who only periodically used AAS, I think I'd steer well clear of 19nors. If I felt I *really needed* to use them, that I couldn't accomplish my goals without them, I'd consider going on permanently. In this scenario, I'd need to consider what I'm prepared to compromise on, and the reasons why I had been reluctant to stay on in the first place. But at the end of the day, if you're a recreational lifter/user (ie not competing), I honestly don't think you "need" 19nors to accomplish any reasonable goal; or, you could probably reach those goals using just Test and DHT derivatives.

As to the potential difference between various administration's...at the end of the day, 2 main variables would seem to ring true for these compounds regardless of how they are specifically taken. 1, it is the same compound regardless of administration. The specifics of its pharmacodynamics might vary but...2, as long as the dose you administer still falls within what is considered the "effective range", it will essentially have the same properties. So, even though TD might have relatively poor uptake/absorption compared to IM, as long as the dose is still "effective", you should expect similar biological effects.

I mean that's a very crude way to put it, and it misses a lot of nuance, but I think it would be accurate at least in a practical sense.

A very well written post as always.
I totally agree with your first paragraph. Priorities and test/dht being sufficient to achieve my goals. Having run 19nor trenavar in 2018/2019 and td trest in 2020/2021 I never really gave it over a year for metabolites to clear. Im sure many are in the same boat or just on trt. I feel the same as I did before but who knows if i even know anymore. Perhaps the metabolites are just a urine test thing since thats where all the research is but it is nice to open the discussion in the direction of safety and knowledge. Its easy to go down the rabbit hole and say well i did trendione and trest the last 4 years whats another year of that awesome stuff gonna hurt... but nows good a time as ever to set new less risky boundaries though. Super sad that td trest falls into the category and ngl thats why im still on the fence about 19nors. But then you think well **** it converts to the stuff anyway might as well pin it...

Any other guys who cycle 19nors without trt care to chime in?

 

[benjamfzb]

Here it goes...19-nors, metabolites, and endocrine suppression. Yeah, it lasts a long time. - r/PEDs

View on Libreddit, an alternative private front-end to Reddit.

libredd.it

 

[Njs0416]

I’m 43 and running trest now and not worried. Lol. I started cycling in my early 20s and have ran numerous cycles 1000 a week of test, 700 mgs a week of tren, anadrol, superdrol, m1t, etc. have also gone years with takeoff nothing. And I feel absolutely fine when I’m off. Sex drive is good, mood is good, stay lean easily with a good diet. I’ll use trt when I feel it’s necceaaary but at 43 I don’t need it yet.

Want to trade genetics?

 

[thebigt]

Here it goes...19-nors, metabolites, and endocrine suppression. Yeah, it lasts a long time. - r/PEDs

View on Libreddit, an alternative private front-end to Reddit.

libredd.it

excluding trestolone [ment] which is twice as quick to recover from than testosterone?

 

[Nac]

excluding trestolone [ment] which is twice as quick to recover from than testosterone?

Yeah I think that claim is bullsh1t and probably based on totally extrapolating the study wrong.

 

[benjamfzb]

excluding trestolone [ment] which is twice as quick to recover from than testosterone?

Yeah that part looks like garbage. The post itself is just reddit but it has useful links in it...

 

[benjamfzb]

Yeah I think that claim is bullsh1t and probably based on totally extrapolating the study wrong.

It would be nice though. Praying for a reason not to quit td trest at this point

 

[thebigt]

It would be nice though. Praying for a reason not to quit td trest at this point

if you search long enough you can find validation for almost anything on the internet.

 

[benjamfzb]

if you search long enough you can find validation for almost anything on the internet.

I know. Thats why I started this thread haha. I know better to succumb to optimistic bias but anyone can be victim of it.

 

[Njs0416]

Yeah I think that claim is bullsh1t and probably based on totally extrapolating the study wrong.

Totally, but we already know most people don’t know how to interpret studies. LGD4033 for example. Not a single person I’ve ever seen reference a SARM study considered the target population, which is always very important.