11-KT and dienolone: bad anxiety

UNX

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I'm on the 4th week of a cutting cycle, which looks like this:

Week 1-8: 100 mg test prop + 12,5 mg exemestane M/W/F
Week 1-8: 150 mg dienolone TD
Week 4-8: 250 mg 11-KT TD

Also, 250 UI HCG E3D during the whole cycle. At first I've got some anxiety coming from dienolone, so the first week I went to 75 mg daily. Then getting to 150 mg daily bearable. Sometimes I thought it was sugar craving, although nothing bad. But this 4th week I added 11-KT and anxiety is worse. I don't know what to do, 11-KT is pretty weak but perhaps combining it with dienolone worsens the anxiety. Or simply dienolone's anxiety is hitting me now. I believe the solution is to remove one of them. Any idea?
 
Renew1

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I'm on the 4th week of a cutting cycle, which looks like this:

Week 1-8: 100 mg test prop + 12,5 mg exemestane M/W/F
Week 1-8: 150 mg dienolone TD
Week 4-8: 250 mg 11-KT TD

Also, 250 UI HCG E3D during the whole cycle. At first I've got some anxiety coming from dienolone, so the first week I went to 75 mg daily. Then getting to 150 mg daily bearable. Sometimes I thought it was sugar craving, although nothing bad. But this 4th week I added 11-KT and anxiety is worse. I don't know what to do, 11-KT is pretty weak but perhaps combining it with dienolone worsens the anxiety. Or simply dienolone's anxiety is hitting me now. I believe the solution is to remove one of them. Any idea?

Just some thoughts on things to try (you'll need to examine these yourself, to see which, if any, might work for you).

Possible options:

Ashwagandha

Drop 11-KT

Lower AI

Just some thoughts, brother...
 

CroLifter

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11 kt is pretty androgenic... i was pretty irritable on it and felt aggressive, also gave me blood pressure spikes, but not anxiety, and everyone here knows i am prone to anxiety.

I would say it is dienolone, it is similar to tren, a progestin, 19 nor.
 
Renew1

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11 kt is pretty androgenic... i was pretty irritable on it and felt aggressive, also gave me blood pressure spikes, but not anxiety, and everyone here knows i am prone to anxiety.

I would say it is dienolone, it is similar to tren, a progestin, 19 nor.

Yeah ... The only reason I didn't mention that as an option is because it's his main compound.
It would be a shame if he has to drop it.
... But sometimes we have to consider options we don't like.
 

UNX

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I've never tried Ashwagandha but have some black seed oil which has some GABAergic properties. At the moment I felt nothing from it but I'm dosing only 500 mg daily.
Lowering the AI is another option, this is my first cycle with exemestane. I will dose it only 2 times weekly as long as my pubertal gyno doesn't **** me. From my experience, high estrogen makes me feel pretty good.
I would rather drop 11-KT than dienolone, but I ran 11-KT standalone long time ago and felt nothing mental from it.
 

CroLifter

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Yeah ... The only reason I didn't mention that as an option is because it's his main compound.
It would be a shame if he has to drop it.
... But sometimes we have to consider options we don't like.
You know... i had these issues from masteron, but to this day i didnt have it tested (whats the point, test would only tell me if mast is present) and i have reasons to believe it mayve been sth else.


I am worried it may have contained a considerable amount of some 19 nor steroid, maybe tren, maybe dienolone.

Because there is one interesting side effect i experienced while taking it, morning sickness. I was feeling nauseous in the morning for the first hour after waking up, remember having troubles eating breakfast.

AFAIK, that is a progesterone side effect women get while pregnant, no? I wasnt on hcg at the time.

And when i stopped masteron morning nausea went away.
 
Renew1

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I've never tried Ashwagandha but have some black seed oil which has some GABAergic properties. At the moment I felt nothing from it but I'm dosing only 500 mg daily.
Lowering the AI is another option, this is my first cycle with exemestane. I will dose it only 2 times weekly as long as my pubertal gyno doesn't **** me. From my experience, high estrogen makes me feel pretty good.
I would rather drop 11-KT than dienolone, but I ran 11-KT standalone long time ago and felt nothing mental from it.
Ugh, I forgot about the gyno issues.
I'd be careful lowering the AI, then.
 

UNX

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Ugh, I forgot about the gyno issues.
I'd be careful lowering the AI, then.
I forgot to say that also I take 1 cap/day of Alchemy 😅 (flavozole and other compounds, it's also a GDA and worked well for me in the past standalone). I'm prone to gyno and also there's misleading data with dienolone, it could have some activity at ER: https://anabolicminds.com/community/threads/dienolone-boldione-testing-info.98883/

As I can't do a bloodwork right now, I'll drop the Alchemy and the 11-KT for a few days and wait.

@CroLifter I also get some sickness but at afternoon, I blame the black seed oil.
 

CroLifter

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I forgot to say that also I take 1 cap/day of Alchemy 😅 (flavozole and other compounds, it's also a GDA and worked well for me in the past standalone). I'm prone to gyno and also there's misleading data with dienolone, it could have some activity at ER: https://anabolicminds.com/community/threads/dienolone-boldione-testing-info.98883/

As I can't do a bloodwork right now, I'll drop the Alchemy and the 11-KT for a few days and wait.

@CroLifter I also get some sickness but at afternoon, I blame the black seed oil.
In my case it wasnt the oil it was the compound itself as i homebrew and my test uses the exact same oil. Nausea was definitely brought on by masteron itself.

When @trumac said how he gets nausea from tren i started to wonder... because i never heard of anyone getting nausea from masteron, also i havent heard of anyone getting severe anxiety and panic attacks from it, while i did.
 

trumac

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In my case it wasnt the oil it was the compound itself as i homebrew and my test uses the exact same oil. Nausea was definitely brought on by masteron itself.

When @trumac said how he gets nausea from tren i started to wonder... because i never heard of anyone getting nausea from masteron, also i havent heard of anyone getting severe anxiety and panic attacks from it, while i did.
I started up some tren, stenbolone, and test on Monday. Tren and test are at fairly low doses and I’m taking caber as well. I’ll report back on the nausea to see if it was dose dependent
 
StarScream66

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I'm a big believer in Kava. It's basically like herbal Valium. You want to take it with a fat source, like soy lecithin to help the kavalactones (the active ingredients) are better absorbed.

SNS also makes a product called Stress & Anxiety Support. It has Ashwagandha, which a lot of people here have been recommending. But, it also has l-theanine which absolutely helps with stress.

https://examine.com/supplements/kava/


I also highly recommend The CBD Disterlly's CBD oil. They make excellent full spectrum (with 0.03% THC). They test all their batches and are a high quality mfg. They're a little pricey, but absolutely worth it. I take the 2500mg of CBD oil with 83mg of active CBD.


Also keep an eye on your caffeine in or any other stimulants you're taking. Those can cause feelings of anxiety if you're already prone to it. Has your blood pressure been going up at all?

Hope that helps and good luck with getting rid of your anxiety!
-SS
 

UNX

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At the moment I'll keep it simple. I drop the Alchemy (no need for it), 11-KT for a week and black seed oil (due to nausea). If the anxiety vanishes and appears when I restart the 11-KT, I'll drop it in this cycle.
@StarScream66 Kava is banned where I live, but l-Theanine seems a good option and it's not addictive. Blood pressure is fine at the moment.

@trumac Will you log it? Stenbolone is hard to find but old school bodybuilders liked it.
 
StarScream66

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@StarScream66 Kava is banned where I live, but l-Theanine seems a good option and it's not addictive. Blood pressure is fine at the moment.
That'a shame. You could also try some phenibut which is a very relaxing compound.
 
StarScream66

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I can't use phenibut for 4 weeks, it's not only very addictive, but the withdrawal is worse than opioids. It's more healthier to drop the 11KT than risking an addiction.
I've never had any trouble with Phenibut addiction. But, you want to be using as low a dose as possible. It's definitely not going to get you addicted after a week and it's absolutely not as bad as opioid withdrawl.


 

uprightrows

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I've never had any trouble with Phenibut addiction. But, you want to be using as low a dose as possible. It's definitely not going to get you addicted after a week and it's absolutely not as bad as opioid withdrawl.
Ehhh... that's pretty subjective. I'd rank GABAergic drug withdrawal (alcohol, benzos, gabapentinoids/substituted GABA like phenibut) as really bad even compared to opioid/opiate withdrawal. That being said, yes you will not get addicted after a week of phenibut use, it's an extremely effective anxiolytic, just don't stay on it 24/7 for a long time and realize it has a long half life.
 

Srr1000

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A DHT like Androsterone seems to calm me down. Unlike Epiandro. Hydroxyzine seems to help some. Can make you pretty sleepy though. Don’t have any experience with phen.
 

uprightrows

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2nd the hydroxyzine (might be called vistaril depending on where you are), it's a good low key anti-anxiety med. It does make you a little sleepy like benedryl, but the drowsiness tends to go away after a few days of use.
 

UNX

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Today I'm feeling better, I'll add back the 11KT within a week. Finasteride could work inhibiting the formation of 11 -KDHT but I just want to keep it simple.
 

CroLifter

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Today I'm feeling better, I'll add back the 11KT within a week. Finasteride could work inhibiting the formation of 11 -KDHT but I just want to keep it simple.
You are overthinking


11 kt is androgenic, but not to the point that it should be causing you so much issues, unless you were injecting it.

It really just gives you loads of energy, and tons of irritability.


The only bad side i got from it were BP spikes, but other than that not a lot of results.
 

UNX

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You are overthinking


11 kt is androgenic, but not to the point that it should be causing you so much issues, unless you were injecting it.

It really just gives you loads of energy, and tons of irritability.


The only bad side i got from it were BP spikes, but other than that not a lot of results.
I'll measure BP after dosing it. I know it's pretty mild, in fact I never felt anything mental from it in previous cycles.
 

CroLifter

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I'll measure BP after dosing it. I know it's pretty mild, in fact I never felt anything mental from it in previous cycles.
I would dose it in the evening and then wake up with tension in my head about an hour to 2 hours later.
 

trumac

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At the moment I'll keep it simple. I drop the Alchemy (no need for it), 11-KT for a week and black seed oil (due to nausea). If the anxiety vanishes and appears when I restart the 11-KT, I'll drop it in this cycle.
@StarScream66 Kava is banned where I live, but l-Theanine seems a good option and it's not addictive. Blood pressure is fine at the moment.

@trumac Will you log it? Stenbolone is hard to find but old school bodybuilders liked it.
I’ll pick my log back up. I’ve had some personal things going on so I’ve been slacking
 
StarScream66

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Ehhh... that's pretty subjective. I'd rank GABAergic drug withdrawal (alcohol, benzos, gabapentinoids/substituted GABA like phenibut) as really bad even compared to opioid/opiate withdrawal. That being said, yes you will not get addicted after a week of phenibut use, it's an extremely effective anxiolytic, just don't stay on it 24/7 for a long time and realize it has a long half life.
I think you're really overestimating the potency of phenibut. Phenibut is not a benzo and you can't get dependent on it on it unless you use really really large amounts (like in the threshold of 5-10g+ daily). The problem with benzo withdrawal as opposed to opioid withdrawal is you can go into seizures if you don't get the same amount of benzos you were on and are cut off from them completely.

I've personally gone through opioid withdrawal and can tell you it's nothing even close to anything phenibut can do. Phenibut is a gabapentanoid, but it's more similar to baclofen than Lyrica or Gabepentin.

In my experience, it's a relatively weak compound and that's why it's still available on the marketplace. If people were abusing it, they would have banned it a long time ago. Having said that, I understand your precaution. It's your choice what to put in your body and phenibut was just a suggestion of mine to help reduce the anxiety. I was going to link to another product I used for anxiety, but it has a little bit of Kava in it. Just out of curiosity, do you mind telling where you are that Kava is banned?

Either way, I think you've read some pretty alarmist stuff and around 250mg of phenibut is barely a blip for me. Anyway, good luck with your anxiety.
 
Renew1

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One thing is certain... If someone is worried about becoming addicted to a substance, then he DEFINITELY shouldn't be taking it.
 
StarScream66

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One thing is certain... If someone is worried about becoming addicted to a substance, then he DEFINITELY shouldn't be taking it.
I agree, to an extent, but doctors prescribe substances all the time that are addictive or make you dependent.

Anyway, like I said, phenibut was just a suggestion. If he doesn't want to use it, I understand, although disagree with the reasoning behind it.
 

UNX

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I live in Spain, Kava was banned because some Kava capsules where related to hepatic damage (it was a mistake from the manufacturer, Kava isn't dangerous). Anyway, test and dienolone treats me well, so if 11KT gives me anxiety, I'll just drop it.
 

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