11-Andro ( 11-oxo ) Stack

[ktm620]

Hey guys ,
Basically any opinions about what to stack with 11-a? ( on the same level I mean not much stronger compounds..)
Goal recomp for now or a small - intermidiate - cut..
Until now I ve thought about inhibit-e...
Any other thoughts?
(Cycle will last two months followed by three mo of Abe )

 

[delsolrob]

11-A?

 

[Afi140]

11-A?

Was thinking the same thing. M1A maybe? Or 11-keto?

 

[Smont]

I'm with the other guys, I never heard of 11-A, I just tried searching it and nothing comes up. Can you post a picture of the bottle or is there another name it's also known as???

Is it a natural supplement or prohormone?

 

[Potbelly]

Brawn has 11- Andro

Androst-4-ene-3,11,17 trione - 100mg per cap

 

[Smont]

Ok I'm pretty sure that's 11 OXO

 

[Potbelly]

Yea it is

 

[Smont]

Yea it is

It's going to be a expensive cycle. They say 300-600mg a day for 11 OXO but you want more like 600-1000mg a day. It's the main reason I don't use it. It's pretty cool stuff if you can dose it high enough but it's too costly

 

[ktm620]

Brawn has 11- Andro

Androst-4-ene-3,11,17 trione - 100mg per cap

This supplement exactly ...

 

[ktm620]

It's going to be a expensive cycle. They say 300-600mg a day for 11 OXO but you want more like 600-1000mg a day. It's the main reason I don't use it. It's pretty cool stuff if you can dose it high enough but it's too costly

With something else maybe to enhance it?
( like inhibit-e ? )
Note that that's anyway as high I have ever gone ( pro hormones ) as to the compounds I use ( no gear at all )
So my plan is to use recommended dose and add something else to it.

 

[delsolrob]

If you've already purchased the product, I would consider stacking with 7-keto, like Iron Legion VII-KT.

If you have not purchased the product, I would highly recommend considering 11-keto (Iron Legion XI-KT or Iconic Formulations Ultra Eleven). 11-OXO converts to 11-keto, but 11-keto is likely going to yield more significant results.

I wouldn't recommend running an AI while on 11-OXO or 11-Keto. 7-keto would stack well with either (11OXO or 11KT) to aid in leaning.

 

[Smont]

With something else maybe to enhance it?
( like inhibit-e ? )
Note that that's anyway as high I have ever gone ( pro hormones ) as to the compounds I use ( no gear at all )
So my plan is to use recommended dose and add something else to it.

I don't think you understand how these things work, 11 0XO is a prohormone, adding a estrogen blocker isint going to make the prohormone more effective, it may help with cutting overall but in a completely separate way. 11 is not very suppressive at lower doses so keeping the dose under 600 will probably make it so you don't really need a pct so in that aspect it's good but 11 is something you wanna stack with other hormones to make it more effective. 11 OXO is a prohormone not a natural supplement. Also what's your reason for abe after 11?

11 works on cortisol mainly, inhibit e works on lowering estrogen. Those components are both good for fat loss but there both things you would normally add to a stack with a "wet" prohormone or steroid, there not really the main components of a stack, 11 and inhibit e are what you would use to make another stack more effective if that makes sense

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

11-A?

 

[ktm620]

Changed the title , sorry for the confusion guys , too little time available so I tend to summarize a lot...

 

[KvanH]

Yeah, like said no need for an AI (Inhibit-E) with 11-oxo. 600 mg seems to be the minimun effective dose for most. I've seen people say using over 1 000 mg and enjoying it. 11-Keto (transdermal form) would most likely be a little better. 11-oxo lowers cortisol as said, so if you get sleep issues, then don't dose close to bed. It has a short half life (6-8 hours iirc), so you want to dose multiple times a day. I think some natty supps would go well with it, like Ursa Major and/or Epichaos. I'd thrive to cut as aggressively as possible with it and maintain lean mass. Recomps usually just holds one back, unless on some real gear (and even then recomp is rarely the most optimal way of progress).

 

[Smont]

Yeah, like said no need for an AI (Inhibit-E) with 11-oxo. 600 mg seems to be the minimun effective dose for most. I've seen people say using over 1 000 mg and enjoying it. 11-Keto (transdermal form) would most likely be a little better. 11-oxo lowers cortisol as said, so if you get sleep issues, then don't dose close to bed. It has a short half life (6-8 hours iirc), so you want to dose multiple times a day. I think some natty supps would go well with it, like Ursa Major and/or Epichaos. I'd thrive to cut as aggreasicely as possible with it and maintain lean mass. Recomps usually just holds one back, unless on some real gear (and even then recomp is very rarely the most optimal way of progress).

I recomped a solid 5-8lb trade in muscle and fat. It only took About a year lol, with gear!

 

[ktm620]

If you've already purchased the product, I would consider stacking with 7-keto, like Iron Legion VII-KT.

If you have not purchased the product, I would highly recommend considering 11-keto (Iron Legion XI-KT or Iconic Formulations Ultra Eleven). 11-OXO converts to 11-keto, but 11-keto is likely going to yield more significant results.

I wouldn't recommend running an AI while on 11-OXO or 11-Keto. 7-keto would stack well with either (11OXO or 11KT) to aid in leaning.

Yes I have already two and a half bottles..
Vii-kt is the most effective ,non suppressive supplement let's say , that I have used..
Simply amazing , truly leans you out..
Sadly for some year's to come I won't use td's
as I have a four year old around and even though I know chances - if careful - of transferring are next to zero I am not comfortable with it and still sweat ( not in the good sense ) about the last time I used it ....

 

[Smont]

Yes I have already two and a half bottles..
Vii-kt is the most effective ,non suppressive supplement let's say , that I have used..
Simply amazing , truly leans you out..
Sadly for some year's to come I won't use td's
as I have a four year old around and even though I know chances - if careful - of transferring are next to zero I am not comfortable with it and still sweat ( not in the good sense ) about the last time I used it ....

If it's any ease on your mind, about 15min after it dries it's not possible to transfer it

 

[Smont]

But I understand the worry

 

[Smont]

Just curious, if you had great results with 7keto dhea why not use it again? The 11 OXO won't go bad, you could always throw it in the stash till your ready to run a real cycle and use that as part of the stack

 

[ktm620]

I don't think you understand how these things work, 11 0XO is a prohormone, adding a estrogen blocker isint going to make the prohormone more effective, it may help with cutting overall but in a completely separate way. 11 is not very suppressive at lower doses so keeping the dose under 600 will probably make it so you don't really need a pct so in that aspect it's good but 11 is something you wanna stack with other hormones to make it more effective. 11 OXO is a prohormone not a natural supplement. Also what's your reason for abe after 11?

11 works on cortisol mainly, inhibit e works on lowering estrogen. Those components are both good for fat loss but there both things you would normally add to a stack with a "wet" prohormone or steroid, there not really the main components of a stack, 11 and inhibit e are what you would use to make another stack more effective if that makes sense

I totally understand and truly thanks for the detailed explanation.
I also had in mind that an ai would enhance the stack ( not boost let's stay 11 oxo )
It's mainly because I want to keep it non suppressive I opted for throwing in something else rather than bumping to 600+ of oxo
Normally after 11-oxo I'd use m test but since all went smoothly last time I runned it ( 11 oxo ) I thought of jumping to something natural for 3 months and then run something mild again ( stanoplex 300 most likely )
I understand your meaning of your second paragraph , but since I am trying to run mild , non suppressive cycles - as possible of course - really haven't thought about it.
If you have in mind such a prohormome to add to it - oct pct would be needed at least of course , I Know - pls let me know..
Thanks again for your help , your's and of everyone's else of course!

 

[ktm620]

Yeah, like said no need for an AI (Inhibit-E) with 11-oxo. 600 mg seems to be the minimun effective dose for most. I've seen people say using over 1 000 mg and enjoying it. 11-Keto (transdermal form) would most likely be a little better. 11-oxo lowers cortisol as said, so if you get sleep issues, then don't dose close to bed. It has a short half life (6-8 hours iirc), so you want to dose multiple times a day. I think some natty supps would go well with it, like Ursa Major and/or Epichaos. I'd thrive to cut as aggreasicely as possible with it and maintain lean mass. Recomps usually just holds one back, unless on some real gear (and even then recomp is very rarely the most optimal way of progress).

I ve run it as high as 400 .Was ok but nothing impressive of course...
Perhaps just bumping to 600 would be best..
( at which dose I think otc pct would suffice..)
Do you think that two months @600 is a good plan?

 

[ktm620]

If it's any ease on your mind, about 15min after it dries it's not possible to transfer it

You are correct man l know , that's why I used it last year , bit still can't shake the idea so I ll just save them for later...
I ll sure need them most at 40+ year's ( almost there..)

 

[ktm620]

Just curious, if you had great results with 7keto dhea why not use it again? The 11 OXO won't go bad, you could always throw it in the stash till your ready to run a real cycle and use that as part of the stack

You mean oral dhea?
I think I ve read that it has really poor bioavailability...

 

[Smont]

You mean oral dhea?
I think I ve read that it has really poor bioavailability...

You said you used vii-kt, I thought that was 7 keto dhea

 

[Smont]

Also Im not a fan of OTC pct, honestly I think there useless for recovering testosterone. I've never once seen bloodwork from a OTC pct product that brought someone from suppressed back to normal so I'm not the person to advise on that

 

[Smont]

It also makes no sense to me to spend 40-60 bucks on a natty supplement that probably won't work when you can get clomid or nolva from a reputable research company for $40 or less

 

[KvanH]

I ve run it as high as 400 .Was ok but nothing impressive of course...
Perhaps just bumping to 600 would be best..
( at which dose I think otc pct would suffice..)
Do you think that two months @600 is a good plan?

I'd say it's a decent plan. Even better would be to have more on hand, so you have the possibility to go higher, if needed. But 500-600 mg is where many have said things start to happen and some have reported satisfying results, while not going any higher, than 600 mg.

I'm in the camp of allways using a serm after anything suppressive, but 11-oxo is said to be only lightly suppressive, so your choice Blood test in the last week of your run would tell how suppressed you are (if you have pre cycle bloods).

I've yet to try 11-oxo myself, but I have a few bottles of Brawn 11-Andro laying around. Might throw them in my next cut. Will do 600 mg and see how that works and up if feel like it. Will be a part of a stack with other stuff though.

 

[KvanH]

Also Im not a fan of OTC pct, honestly I think there useless for recovering testosterone. I've never once seen bloodwork from a OTC pct product that brought someone from suppressed back to normal so I'm not the person to advise on that

Yeah it's a difficult issue as one would need to do a suppressive cycle, not take any pct and get bloodwork, then later on (if recovered) do the same cycle and do the otc pct and check bloods again and compare the recovery. That would still obviously have a lot of variables, but if several people would do that, then there could be some trend to be detected.

I've seen some bloodwork results on AM on people doing E. Cottonii only pct's after some mild cycles. I think the one's I've seen, they recovered fine and attributed it to the E. Cottonii, but as I was reading them I kept thinking, that how do they know how well they would've recovered with out any pct

I think there are some proof for some otc T boosting compounds to optimize T levels, meaning raising levels from lowered levels to where they can naturally be. Which would make pct a good time as any for them to have an effect. But like I said earlier, I'm in the allways use a serm -camp.

 

[Smont]

I'd say it's a decent plan. Even better would be to have more on hand, so you have the possibility to go higher, if needed. But 500-600 mg is where many have said things start to happen and some have reported satisfying results, while not going any higher, than 600 mg.

I'm in the camp of allways using a serm after anything suppressive, but 11-oxo is said to be only lightly suppressive, so your choice Blood test in the last week of your run would tell how suppressed you are (if you have pre cycle bloods).

I've yet to try 11-oxo myself, but I have a few bottles of Brawn 11-Andro laying around. Might throw them in my next cut. Will do 600 mg and see how that works and up if feel like it. Will be a part of a stack with other stuff though.

If someone is looking to use a OTC pct product I'm gonna guess there not getting bloodwork done. I could be wrong, but that would be my guess

 

[Smont]

Yeah it's a difficult issue as one would need to do a suppressive cycle, not take any pct and get bloodwork, then later on (if recovered) do the same cycle and do the otc pct and check bloods again and compare the recovery. That would still obviously have a lot of variables, but if several people would do that, then there could be some trend to be detected.

I've seen some bloodwork results on AM on people doing E. Cottonii only pct's after some mild cycles. I think the one's I've seen, they recovered fine and attributed it to the E. Cottonii, but as I was reading them I kept thinking, that how do they know how well they would've recovered with out any pct

I think there are some proof for some otc T boosting compounds to optimize T levels, meaning raising levels from lowered levels to where they can naturally be. Which would make pct a good time as any for them to have an effect. But like I said earlier, I'm in the allways use a serm -camp.

There's so many variables, there's plenty of guys who just run full blown cycles till they run out of gear, then stop, no pct no nothing and they recover time and time again. Then you get a guy who runs a full pct after 1 cycle and doesn't recover. There's definitely a genetic factor in recovery.

I prefer option 3, I just stay on a little testosterone for the rest of my life

 

[ktm620]

You said you used vii-kt, I thought that was 7 keto dhea

Yeah used iron legions , but won't risk it again..
( overcautious I know...)

 

[ktm620]

It also makes no sense to me to spend 40-60 bucks on a natty supplement that probably won't work when you can get clomid or nolva from a reputable research company for $40 or less

At 400mg that I runned it felt no suppression at all ( bloodwork was not exactly timed around the run but 1-2 months before and after.all was on point)
Actually i have two boxes of pharma grade nolva just sitting there as here I can freely get it in my pharmacy for less than 10$...
( crazy **** , I Know..)
It's a bit of on overkill I think though for 400 oral mg of 11 oxo..
@600 or more for a two month run it may come handy.

 

[ktm620]

I'd say it's a decent plan. Even better would be to have more on hand, so you have the possibility to go higher, if needed. But 500-600 mg is where many have said things start to happen and some have reported satisfying results, while not going any higher, than 600 mg.

I'm in the camp of allways using a serm after anything suppressive, but 11-oxo is said to be only lightly suppressive, so your choice Blood test in the last week of your run would tell how suppressed you are (if you have pre cycle bloods).

I've yet to try 11-oxo myself, but I have a few bottles of Brawn 11-Andro laying around. Might throw them in my next cut. Will do 600 mg and see how that works and up if feel like it. Will be a part of a stack with other stuff though.

That's almost for sure my plan as you described it.
Will schedule bloods close to it this time so I know if I should use nolvadex...
Thanks for your help , and of everyone's else of course..

 

[ktm620]

There's so many variables, there's plenty of guys who just run full blown cycles till they run out of gear, then stop, no pct no nothing and they recover time and time again. Then you get a guy who runs a full pct after 1 cycle and doesn't recover. There's definitely a genetic factor in recovery.

I prefer option 3, I just stay on a little testosterone for the rest of my life

I ll stick to option 3 after I hit 60

 

[Smont]

That's almost for sure my plan as you described it.
Will schedule bloods close to it this time so I know if I should use nolvadex...
Thanks for your help , and of everyone's else of course..

Your 2 steps ahead of the game. Normally when someone comes in here asking a question like you did it's because they want to avoid the things that you mentioned above.

Just remember, diet will make 90% of your results. You can bulk or cut on any compound when your foods on point just like you can get fatter on any compound when your foods not on point.

If the goal is strictly cutting or body composition I think 300-600 will help without causing problems. Its a very weak anabolic and much better at maintaining muscle then it is at building muscle. I think the latter is when the high doses are needed

 

[KvanH]

Yes I have already two and a half bottles..
Vii-kt is the most effective ,non suppressive supplement let's say , that I have used..
Simply amazing , truly leans you out..
Sadly for some year's to come I won't use td's
as I have a four year old around and even though I know chances - if careful - of transferring are next to zero I am not comfortable with it and still sweat ( not in the good sense ) about the last time I used it ....

If it's any ease on your mind, about 15min after it dries it's not possible to transfer it

@ironblade21

 

[ironblade21]

@ironblade21

thanks for remembering me mate, gave me my answer.
thank you!

 

[ktm620]

Guys do you think bloods just for test ( cause of the cost of doing full hormonals) would help towards the end of the abobe mentioned cycle in seeing if I am suppressed or not??

 

[KvanH]

Guys do you think bloods just for test ( cause of the cost of doing full hormonals) would help towards the end of the abobe mentioned cycle in seeing if I am suppressed or not??

Yes, if being restricted on the amount of different hormonal readings checked via blood test, then total testosterone would be my #1 choice to measure. But It won't tell you much, if you don't have pre cycle bloods or the result isn't very low.

 

[ktm620]

Yeah I had full hormonals before starting so really can't afford two more full sets...
I want to follow my original plan - as possible - and measure at least test almost when my cycle is done then pct with nolva for 4 weeks and then measure test - at least - again.
I will try to post all tree results..
Trying to get a good sense for future cycles...
Thanks a lot for your input man.

 

[New guy]

Yeah used iron legions , but won't risk it again..
( overcautious I know...)

Out of curiosity whats the risk here? I thought 7-keto was pretty well tolerated and safe?

 

[thebigt]

Out of curiosity whats the risk here? I thought 7-keto was pretty well tolerated and safe?

very!!!

 

[Kronic]

Out of curiosity whats the risk here? I thought 7-keto was pretty well tolerated and safe?

I haven't tried my iron legion yet but I did some oral 7-keto with no sides I could tell. it's supposed to not convert to dht, even being safe for women

 

[thebigt]

I haven't tried my iron legion yet but I did some oral 7-keto with no sides I could tell. it's supposed to not convert to dht, even being safe for women

lots of women use 7-keto...the transdermal is considered much better due to horrible oral bioavailability and it being slow release--when it comes to 7-keto transdermal is definitely the way to go.

 

[Kronic]

lots of women use 7-keto...the transdermal is considered much better due to horrible oral bioavailability and it being slow release--when it comes to 7-keto transdermal is definitely the way to go.

I was using a cyclodextrine liquid oral. tasted terrible

 

[ktm620]

Out of curiosity whats the risk here? I thought 7-keto was pretty well tolerated and safe?

It continues post #17...
Risk of transfer to kids.
About the full testosterone ( only ) labs and nolva pct what's your thoughts???