1 STEP FURTHER

KingAnt

KingAnt

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
Fellas,

I'm looking to take my next cycle a bit further and seeking some tips, advice, and suggestions.
Cycle history: various prohormone cycles, and 2 TEST E cycles.

Last 2 cycle have been TEST E only at 500mg per week. The test is great.
But im looking for a little bit more mass and hardness and a tad bit more energy throughout the day.
I understand this could be as simple as switching to another ester. Or uping my dosage.
I also don't want to get to big to quick.

I'm personally thinking of just switching to test C and maybe running 600 mg week.

Maybe adding an oral , I don't know

Not sure.
Thats why I'm here asking you all.
Give me your thoughts.

I typed this out on the run, so if its sloppy I apologize. And if you have any questions feel free to ask.
 
Whisky

Whisky

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
  • Best Answer
Fellas,

I'm looking to take my next cycle a bit further and seeking some tips, advice, and suggestions.
Cycle history: various prohormone cycles, and 2 TEST E cycles.

Last 2 cycle have been TEST E only at 500mg per week. The test is great.
But im looking for a little bit more mass and hardness and a tad bit more energy throughout the day.
I understand this could be as simple as switching to another ester. Or uping my dosage.
I also don't want to get to big to quick.

I'm personally thinking of just switching to test C and maybe running 600 mg week.

Maybe adding an oral , I don't know

Not sure.
Thats why I'm here asking you all.
Give me your thoughts.

I typed this out on the run, so if its sloppy I apologize. And if you have any questions feel free to ask.
switching esters will be insignificant bro, as would going from 500 to 600 imho.

the next best step in my mind is adding a second injectable, either a dht (primo) or 19nor (npp)

of course a lot of people would simply add an oral (also a decent next step) like anavar (low side effect profile, adds size and strength).
 
Jinsun

Jinsun

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
switching esters will be insignificant bro, as would going from 500 to 600 imho.

the next best step in my mind is adding a second injectable, either a dht (primo) or 19nor (npp)

of course a lot of people would simply add an oral (also a decent next step) like anavar (low side effect profile, adds size and strength).
I second primo. If you cycle and arent looking to go to trt anytime soon, I'd avoid 19nor's.

Primo is a very safe and nice step up. So that would be test at 500, or whatever, and primo at 400 - 600.
 
Power-Lift

Power-Lift

Member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
What these guys said ^

Test-E and Test-C are the same thing, except the half-life is like 1.5 days different, which is out of the picture anyways if dosed at least once a week. (H.L. is 10.5 days vs. 13 days or something like that). The extra 100 mg's a week wont do too much. (More is not always better). I wont recommend orals to anyone, but hardness of course comes from things like Var, Winny, etc...
 
KingAnt

KingAnt

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
switching esters will be insignificant bro, as would going from 500 to 600 imho.

the next best step in my mind is adding a second injectable, either a dht (primo) or 19nor (npp)

of course a lot of people would simply add an oral (also a decent next step) like anavar (low side effect profile, adds size and strength).
Awesome, thanks for the input man.
 
KingAnt

KingAnt

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
Ok guys, I guess primo it is.
Any advice when purchasing and running primo for the first time?
Keep test E at 500 mg and run primo at 400mg per week?
 
KingAnt

KingAnt

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
Ok guys. I've been looking into primo, and turns out that it is pretty expensive.
I will still likely run it. But whatever would you guys suggest?

If still primo, then how long would you run it for?
And at how much?
Split it into 2 doses like test?
 
Hyde

Hyde

Legend
Awards
5
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
Ok guys. I've been looking into primo, and turns out that it is pretty expensive.
I will still likely run it. But whatever would you guys suggest?

If still primo, then how long would you run it for?
And at how much?
Split it into 2 doses like test?
I have never ran primo, because it’s expensive and often faked too so you have to buy a roidtest as well.

If getting long ester and because it doesn’t aromatize you could pin it once a week, but the volume of oil you’ll be using means you will end up splitting your weekly doses into at least 2 shots anyway. 500 test/400 primo would likely be about 6cc - just small enough to fit into a couple 3ml glute shots a week. If dosing more than that and you might add some smaller 1cc shots into your delts or quads, or what have you.
 
Jinsun

Jinsun

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
Ok guys. I've been looking into primo, and turns out that it is pretty expensive.
I will still likely run it. But whatever would you guys suggest?

If still primo, then how long would you run it for?
And at how much?
Split it into 2 doses like test?
Here in eu, there are plenty sources with legit primo that isn't to expensive.

If you'll buy 100mg/ml then you'll probably want to divide the dose into at least two weekly shoots. As @Hyde mentioned, it's a lot of oil, especially when you factor in test. Also, primo is enanthate which means a 5 day halflife so you want to dose it 2 times per week anyway.
 

BBiceps

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
Ok guys. I've been looking into primo, and turns out that it is pretty expensive.
I will still likely run it. But whatever would you guys suggest?

If still primo, then how long would you run it for?
And at how much?
Split it into 2 doses like test?
It is expensive but you can find Primo E 200mg/ml that’s reasonable priced, just make sure you find a lab with good reputation and that have lab reports. I used that on my last cycle with Test C, 1 ml of each (2ml of oil) 2x a week = 400mg Test C/Primo E weekly. It was a great “feel good” cycle.
 
KingAnt

KingAnt

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
Here in eu, there are plenty sources with legit primo that isn't to expensive.

If you'll buy 100mg/ml then you'll probably want to divide the dose into at least two weekly shoots. As @Hyde mentioned, it's a lot of oil, especially when you factor in test. Also, primo is enanthate which means a 5 day halflife so you want to dose it 2 times per week anyway.
Ok perfect, so I can just load them up at the same time and do it in 1 pin twice a week, correct?
 
KingAnt

KingAnt

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
And run primo for 6 weeks?


Also, what else would you guys recommend for adding on to a test cycle?
Given the criteria above?
Although I'm willing to compromise with the "without growing to quick" comment.
 

BBiceps

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
And run primo for 6 weeks?


Also, what else would you guys recommend for adding on to a test cycle?
Given the criteria above?
Although I'm willing to compromise with the "without growing to quick" comment.
No, run Primo for at least 12 weeks.
 
KingAnt

KingAnt

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
No, run Primo for at least 12 weeks.
Dang man that's like $400 or $500.
From the research I've done, it sounds exactly what I've ask for through this post and exactly what I'm looking for.
Super safe, very effective and very highly regarded. But ****, that's alot of money for right now.

You guys got any other suggestions?
An injectable preferred but im open to orals.
 
KingAnt

KingAnt

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
I'm kinda leaning towards the NPP , much much cheaper.
I'll have to do some saving up for a bit sp I can get the primo without breaking the bank.
 
Hyde

Hyde

Legend
Awards
5
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
I'm kinda leaning towards the NPP , much much cheaper.
I'll have to do some saving up for a bit sp I can get the primo without breaking the bank.
Based on your criteria of a little more mass, hardness and energy and primo being cost prohibitive, you could consider adding some mast on top of your previous test dosage. Will let you back off AI some and provide similar protein expression as primo with a bit more neurological upregulation. It kinda turns you up a notch. Libido too.

It will be hard on the hair if you are prone to male pattern baldness though, and I felt it gave me worse acne than average compared to most things.

NPP will add more muscle volume/size but you may need to regulate prolactin on it.

Everything has potential sides for some guys, except primo. That’s why it’s so expensive.
 
KingAnt

KingAnt

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
Based on your criteria of a little more mass, hardness and energy and primo being cost prohibitive, you could consider adding some mast on top of your previous test dosage. Will let you back off AI some and provide similar protein expression as primo with a bit more neurological upregulation. It kinda turns you up a notch. Libido too.

It will be hard on the hair if you are prone to male pattern baldness though, and I felt it gave me worse acne than average compared to most things.

NPP will add more muscle volume/size but you may need to regulate prolactin on it.

Everything has potential sides for some guys, except primo. That’s why it’s so expensive.
Thanks man, the prolactin is the only thing that worries me about the NPP.
I'll do some research on the mast.
You have any dose suggestions for a first time mast run?
 

CroLifter

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • First Up Vote
  • Established
  • RockStar
I didnt get a whole lot from mast, its not a muscle builder.

Its more of an ancillairy imo. Its fine for aggression in the gym and helps to keep you a bit harder and tighter.

If you are looking for gains i woukd still look into primo.
But if i were to run primo i wouldnt do 500 test with it. I would want to see it shine, so less test and more primo. I dont like 500 test tbh. Too much water retention and gains not really all that good.

Anavar is also very tempting but its an oral, will hit body hard, but supposedly gives good gains and hardness, plus you dont run it for long.
This would maybe be my no.1 choice, if you got good gains off of test and want sth to spice things up a bit, say towards the end.


Low dose tren ace - amazing. Even though its a 19 nor, you dont have to run it for as long, you can treat it as an oral. However, it annihilated my hair, like to an ugly point, and mild depression plus a change in personality when i came off. Didnt want to hang out with anyone.
For gains its worth it, there is no comparison, but not really sure overall. The problem like i say is coming off, at least for me, i dont like to go through such drasric mental changes and only looking back do you realize sth was off.
If i knew i could get similar gains from sth else, i woukd never consider it again, or any other 19 nor, like @Jinsun said. Too much messing with the brain chemistry.



Also, i would look into the gh pathway. Ita very synerfistic with aas. Plus there are more benefits apart from just muscle growth.
 
Last edited:
Jinsun

Jinsun

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
I'm kinda leaning towards the NPP , much much cheaper.
I'll have to do some saving up for a bit sp I can get the primo without breaking the bank.
Primo is around 50€ per 100mg/ml vial. That's app what? 75€ per mont at 400mg/week. Not that expensive tbh, but yeah, 400€ per cycle ...

Npp is cheaper, but due to it's half life you really have to pin it ED. I know it's said to pin eod but it's HL is shorter then 48h, so this is a compromise if you do it that way.

But, npp is a good choice for a only 6 week cycle. Combine npp with prop and an oral dht like var and you're golden IMO.

Npp is a 19nor as @CroLifter noted and it carries more sides then dhts and test, so this is up to you.

But as you asked in your OP, npp will give you lot's of energy throughout the day as it's very androgenic. It's dbol in oil, or at least that's how it felt for me.

It elevates heart rate, so you might have trouble sleeping if you are not a solid sleeper. I just can't stand my heart pounding when I go to sleep.

Recovery is also harder from it. But as with all other aas related things, ymmv though ...
 
Jinsun

Jinsun

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
Also keep in mind, shorter cycles need higher dosages. And strong compounds. M1T and SD also come to mind, if you can handle them.

One other thing, the more compouds you add, the harder it is to recover.

How much solid tissue are you looking to add anyway?

You also mentioned hardness? You do realise that goes away as soon as you stop the cycle ...
 
Whisky

Whisky

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
  • Best Answer
Primo is around 50€ per 100mg/ml vial. That's app what? 75€ per mont at 400mg/week. Not that expensive tbh, but yeah, 400€ per cycle ...

Npp is cheaper, but due to it's half life you really have to pin it ED. I know it's said to pin eod but it's HL is shorter then 48h, so this is a compromise if you do it that way.

But, npp is a good choice for a only 6 week cycle. Combine npp with prop and an oral dht like var and you're golden IMO.

Npp is a 19nor as @CroLifter noted and it carries more sides then dhts and test, so this is up to you.

But as you asked in your OP, npp will give you lot's of energy throughout the day as it's very androgenic. It's dbol in oil, or at least that's how it felt for me.

It elevates heart rate, so you might have trouble sleeping if you are not a solid sleeper. I just can't stand my heart pounding when I go to sleep.

Recovery is also harder from it. But as with all other aas related things, ymmv though ...
my Uk UGL has 200mg/ml primo at £75, so at 500mg week it’s £300 for a 16 week run. It’s the most expensive thing they sell but imo probably well worth it if you aren’t having to sacrifice other things in your life.

OP - A lot of this comes down to risk vs reward as well. The guys above have highlighted loads of good info. There are many ways to skin a cat with the right knives.

you can run more aggressive cycles (things like sdrol etc in the mix) and sometimes get more noticeable results but if you are cycling off then these will mostly go when you stop.

or you can go safer and more sensible, less dramatic results potentially, probably still keep the same amount of lean tissue built, post cycle though (same amount vs the more aggressive cycle)

ive run both, aggressive cycles take it out of you, personally I don’t feel anywhere near as good on them but as I cruise after I maintain the changes a bit longer. My appetite for it becomes less as I age though, my next winter blast will probably just be test 400, deca 200, primo 500 for 16 weeks. Maybe an oral for 6 weeks at the end.
 
Whisky

Whisky

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
  • Best Answer
"Just" 400 test, 200 deca, 500 primo, 16 weeks, he said XD
lol. Tbh really light touch blasts just don’t give me any results......I’m naturally heavy (in my profile pic I was 212 and currently 240) and I’ve heard talk of doses correlated to bw (I’m not saying I’m a big boy by a long stretch by the way, just heavier than average and 6’2’) so I guess that could be one reason, diet and training have been consistent for years (try different things of course but always pretty focused).

I sorta figure that it’s pointless going over anything over a cruise dose for too little a result so that outline is probably the least I’d run to get something to make it worth doing I guess (you’d flame the hell out of me for my current bulk stack tbh, even I think
It’s stupid but I had a reason).

OP - the right message on dose is always to use the minimum effective amount. I.e the lower the doses you can use to elicit the response you want is the right way to go.
 
RIPDanDuchaine

RIPDanDuchaine

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
I would have voted for Deca

I have never ran primo, because it’s expensive and often faked too so you have to buy a roidtest as well.
Unfortunately, roidtest doesn't have a test for primo.

LabMax has a test though, I'm looking into it right now.


EDIT: I ordered a primo test from LabMax and it was only $16. But, since they're in Canada the shipping was $13. But you have to order their special UV light with it too, so that's another $30 + $16 shipping, so it's not as cheap as it seems as first.
 
Last edited:

CroLifter

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • First Up Vote
  • Established
  • RockStar
Deca is the worst possible choice if he cycles, as far as primo goes, @Jinsun that ug primo you are talking about, has anyone had it tested to confirm its real?

Its the most faked compound...i dont think anyone except a very experienced user would be able to tell unless it was tested.
 
Jinsun

Jinsun

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
Deca is the worst possible choice if he cycles, as far as primo goes, @Jinsun that ug primo you are talking about, has anyone had it tested to confirm its real?

Its the most faked compound...i dont think anyone except a very experienced user would be able to tell unless it was tested.
Yes, it was, by Janoshik, if that means anything to you.
 
Hyde

Hyde

Legend
Awards
5
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
Masteron is just as good mg for mg for growth/protein expression as primo. But it will have more sides. I had it at 200mg in my stack for only a month and reached my highest bodyweight and non-comp strength ever with it. I dropped it though because my scalp felt very inflamed and the acne it was giving me was gross.

YMMV.
 

UNX

Member
Awards
2
  • First Up Vote
  • Established
Deca is the worst possible choice if he cycles, as far as primo goes, @Jinsun that ug primo you are talking about, has anyone had it tested to confirm its real?

Its the most faked compound...i dont think anyone except a very experienced user would be able to tell unless it was tested.
In fact, same with NPP. Yes, NPP is a short ester but nandrolone metabolites have a very long half life... Some recommend to cruise a few month after a NPP cycle.
 
Jinsun

Jinsun

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
In fact, same with NPP. Yes, NPP is a short ester but nandrolone metabolites have a very long half life... Some recommend to cruise a few month after a NPP cycle.
Wow, really? First time I ever heard of that. You saying you can't start PCT, let's say, 7 days after the last NPP shot?
 
Jinsun

Jinsun

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
Yes, you can start PCT and many people just recover fine, but metabolites sticking around makes it harder: https://www.reddit.com/r/PEDs/comments/kbnuuk
Tnx.

The part about not recovering after 14 days is a bit silly though. Deca has a long HL and 14 days is not enough for it to clear the system, at all. If that study was about NPP, now that would be interesting.

In any case, tnx for sharing this. Nandrolones are hard to recover, and I usually don't recommend them to people who cycle.
 

UNX

Member
Awards
2
  • First Up Vote
  • Established
Tnx.

The part about not recovering after 14 days is a bit silly though. Deca has a long HL and 14 days is not enough for it to clear the system, at all. If that study was about NPP, now that would be interesting.

In any case, tnx for sharing this. Nandrolones are hard to recover, and I usually don't recommend them to people who cycle.
I just ended a test E/NPP cycle and finally opt to cruise for a while. I had a hard recovery from a previous dienolone cycle and don't wanna risk gains again. Next time I'll avoid nandrolone.
 
Jinsun

Jinsun

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
I just ended a test E/NPP cycle and finally opt to cruise for a while. I had a hard recovery from a previous dienolone cycle and don't wanna risk gains again. Next time I'll avoid nandrolone.
Yeah, and I was thinking of maybe doing prop/npp for 8 weeks, but might just opt for prop/var or something.

You'll cruise and then do a pct? That's a bit risky, I mean, time under suppression is the biggest negative factor in regards to keeping the testicular function healthy long term. Are you at least using hcg?
 

UNX

Member
Awards
2
  • First Up Vote
  • Established
Yeah, and I was thinking of maybe doing prop/npp for 8 weeks, but might just opt for prop/var or something.

You'll cruise and then do a pct? That's a bit risky, I mean, time under suppression is the biggest negative factor in regards to keeping the testicular function healthy long term. Are you at least using hcg?
I know it's risky, but this time I chose to keep my gains overall. Of course, I always use HCG (250 IU E3D). My plan is to recover but I will accept the idea of B&C forever if I cannot get back to baseline.
 
Jinsun

Jinsun

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
I know it's risky, but this time I chose to keep my gains overall. Of course, I always use HCG (250 IU E3D). My plan is to recover but I will accept the idea of B&C forever if I cannot get back to baseline.
You loose so much gains afterwards? Have you tried using GH after the cycle? 4IU should really help imo. Also, for me, shbg really tends to creep up in/after pct, so it helps a lot in lowering it/keeping an eye on it.
 
Whisky

Whisky

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
  • Best Answer
I was aware metabolites from nandrolone are detectable for ages (why it’s such a terrible choice for any professional) but not that it continues to cause significant suppression? Surprises me as nandrolone naturally occurs in the body (albeit in very small amounts).....
 
Jinsun

Jinsun

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
I was aware metabolites from nandrolone are detectable for ages (why it’s such a terrible choice for any professional) but not that it continues to cause significant suppression? Surprises me as nandrolone naturally occurs in the body (albeit in very small amounts).....
I was surprised by that to. Need to look up that study that was quoted ... were they talking about deca or npp
 
KingAnt

KingAnt

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
Also keep in mind, shorter cycles need higher dosages. And strong compounds. M1T and SD also come to mind, if you can handle them.

One other thing, the more compouds you add, the harder it is to recover.

How much solid tissue are you looking to add anyway?

You also mentioned hardness? You do realise that goes away as soon as you stop the cycle ...
Yes sir, of course I realize these things go away after cycle stops.

As far as solid tissue
I'm always looking to add. Its just with the career path I'm involved in and the people I'm around on a daily basis, I would like to avoid being "drastically " bigger to fast.
Definitely very interested in cardiovascular performance as well.
 
Last edited:
KingAnt

KingAnt

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
Also keep in mind, shorter cycles need higher dosages. And strong compounds. M1T and SD also come to mind, if you can handle them.

One other thing, the more compouds you add, the harder it is to recover.

How much solid tissue are you looking to add anyway?

You also mentioned hardness? You do realise that goes away as soon as you stop the cycle ...
Also energy, I've been real sluggish lately. That could be a simple vitamin or change of diet. Although my diet is pretty good. possibly catching a cold ( or the infamous CV- 1 9er, jk)
But not necessarily looks for aas to solve this problem just input .
 
KingAnt

KingAnt

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
lol. Tbh really light touch blasts just don’t give me any results......I’m naturally heavy (in my profile pic I was 212 and currently 240) and I’ve heard talk of doses correlated to bw (I’m not saying I’m a big boy by a long stretch by the way, just heavier than average and 6’2’) so I guess that could be one reason, diet and training have been consistent for years (try different things of course but always pretty focused).

I sorta figure that it’s pointless going over anything over a cruise dose for too little a result so that outline is probably the least I’d run to get something to make it worth doing I guess (you’d flame the hell out of me for my current bulk stack tbh, even I think
It’s stupid but I had a reason).

OP - the right message on dose is always to use the minimum effective amount. I.e the lower the doses you can use to elicit the response you want is the right way to go.
"OP - the right message on dose is always to use the minimum effective amount. I.e the lower the doses you can use to elicit the response you want is the right way to go."

Right there with you
 

UNX

Member
Awards
2
  • First Up Vote
  • Established
You loose so much gains afterwards? Have you tried using GH after the cycle? 4IU should really help imo. Also, for me, shbg really tends to creep up in/after pct, so it helps a lot in lowering it/keeping an eye on it.
Yes, specially from my last cutting cycle with dienolone. I've tried peptides with no much success... I'll check SHBG next time.
 
Hyde

Hyde

Legend
Awards
5
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
Also energy, I've been real sluggish lately. That could be a simple vitamin or change of diet. Although my diet is pretty good. possibly catching a cold ( or the infamous CV- 1 9er, jk)
But not necessarily looks for aas to solve this problem just input .
You take a b complex, getting your zinc, magnesium, d3, gallon of water, sleeping enough and eating vegetables?

I know that sounds simple, but the foundational stuff is foundational for a reason.
 

Similar threads


Top