1-andro and 4-andro, 1st time PH run

Thordinar

New member
Hello. I am interested in gaining muscle mass and my research has brought me to this forum. This is my layout so far...

Week 1 - 6 (8)
1-andro (???)
4-andro (300-500mg)
Cycle support (5% nutrition Organ defender)
Aromatize inhibitor (Haven't found one yet.)
Garlic extract
Men's multi-vitamin
Taurine (if needed for back pumps)

PCT
Clomid (50/50/25/25/0)
D-aspartic acid (Lecheek nutrition TX-3)
Men's multi-vitamin

Will I need HCG? If so where can I find it?

I am slightly intimidated still of being shutdown and not be able to recover but I remain highly interested. Is this adequate? I want to make sure I conduct the cycle as safely as I can. I want to come out on the other side with more mass only, no whacked out levels or complications. I am open to any advice or criticism.
 
Anything "off label" and I would do 6 weeks PCT with the Clomid - the last 2 weeks being 25eod/25eod, but that's me. You shouldn't need HCG for 2-Step DHEAs. I didn't.

I'd go 8 weeks of at least 330mg'ish of 1-Andro (West Texas A&M Study dosage).

The 4-AD is just a Test Base, I'd try to get away with as little needed as possible. Some use Transdermal DHEA (Dermacrine) and feel great.

Have an AI (Aromasin) on hand, but why take it if you don't need it. Estrogen has benefits.

I don't know why DAA has stuck as PCT when using Rx/RC drugs - Clomid will smoke DAA's bags, and doesn't need help.

You need to think of Cortisol and possible Estrogen rebound after tapering the SERM. You can use the Aromasin, but I just save it for emergencies and go with OTC. Not affiliated, but SNS has good value for money in these two areas.
 
1-Andro : 300 to 500 mg per day

pct looks good. I would recommend maybe grabbing some reduce xt by sns from Strong Supplement Shop as well. That would be a good addition to your pct.
 
I also found garlic extract to be useful when cycling as I cought vampires trying to steal my stash...
 
I will adjust the 4-andro and 1-andro dosages in my notes. I will keep AI on hand

Lean- Reduce xt description says it suppresses appetite, how is that beneficial? Wouldn't I still need to be eating a lot?

I read this article suggesting 2 serms should be used at these dosages. (Clomid dosages higher than I saw people post around here in their layouts.)

PCT
Nolva (40/40/20/20) until blood work shows HTPA has indeed began to recover.
Clomid (100/100/50/50) until blood work shows HTPA has indeed began to recover.
Aromasin (20/20/20/20) until blood work shows HTPA has indeed began to recover.

(I can't post the link because I don't have 1000 posts yet, but it is by warmachine in another forum in the education threads section.)

Your thoughts?
 
That much Clomid and Nolva is massive overkill for DHEA compounds. You 'should' be fine with one of those SERM's at modest dosages - 50/50/25/25 or 20/20/10/10. As always though, you never know if you've recovered 100% without pre and post cycle blood tests.
 
I will be doing pre and post cycle blood work. I will stick with the clomid at 50/50/25/25/25eod/25eod. Should I keep nolva as well just in case I have a reaction or something to clomid?
 
It might be a good idea; some people don't react well to Clomid. I've used both without issue but I prefer Nolva.
 
Thordinar said:
I will adjust the 4-andro and 1-andro dosages in my notes. I will keep AI on hand

Lean- Reduce xt description says it suppresses appetite, how is that beneficial? Wouldn't I still need to be eating a lot?

I read this article suggesting 2 serms should be used at these dosages. (Clomid dosages higher than I saw people post around here in their layouts.)

PCT
Nolva (40/40/20/20) until blood work shows HTPA has indeed began to recover.
Clomid (100/100/50/50) until blood work shows HTPA has indeed began to recover.
Aromasin (20/20/20/20) until blood work shows HTPA has indeed began to recover.

(I can't post the link because I don't have 1000 posts yet, but it is by warmachine in another forum in the education threads section.)

Your thoughts?
Click to expand...

Holy mother of overkill.

I reckon inhibit E would be more than enough of an AI for this cycle (have an rx on hand incase).
 
I thought maybe that was a little much. I was hoping to connect with people with experience with these to give me insight, so I am glad I found this place.

Here is my layout now with revisions. By the way I am 5'6'' 145lbs.

Week 1 - 8
1-andro (350mg - 400mg)
4-andro 200mg (No less then 200mg when being used as a test base.)
Organ defender 5% Nutrition
Exemestane (Which is Aromasin (only taken if I needed))
Garlic extract and/or grape seed extract (Aid in blood pressure and cholesterol)
Men's multi-vitamin
Taurine (if needed for back pumps)

PCT Week 7 - 12
Clomid (50mg ed/50mg ed/25mg ed/25mg ed/25eod/25eod)
Nolva (in case I have a reaction to clomid (20/20/10/10))
Exemestane (Which is Aromasin)
Men's multi-vitamin

I am still unsure as to when I would used the AI. I believe that if I begin to suffer estrogen related symptoms I would use it then, but if I do not experience them during the cycle at all, would I just use it during PCT?

Also if there is 60 capsules a bottle and at 50mg per capsule, 350mg daily would be 7 capsules a day. An 8 week cycle is 56 days, that's 392 capsules or just under 7 bottles. That's just the 1-andro. Is this part of the process and just seems excessive?

If my layout is missing something or needs further alterations please provide input. I have parts missing still because I am still looking for the answers. I appreciate all your responses...
 
you have it all covered well.
As for your AI, i would just keep the Arom on hand...not to use unless needed.

Like mentioned above, something like Inhibit E (atd) or even Erase (arimistane) would be more than sufficient.
Dose your Erase at only one cap a day while on cycle, and during PCT, maybe something with a taper.
2/2/1/1
^everyone has their own ideas for tapering a AI during PCT, but i think that keeping it simple will be fine. Never had any of this mythical "Estrogen Rebound"...as long as you have a good SERM for PCT, you will recover just fine. ESPECIALLY for your cycle of 1 and 4 andro.
Easy.
Have a good run, bud!
 
200-300mgs 4 Andro
300-400 1 Andro

maybe higher, i would taper up after week 1, once you see how side effects are.
 
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