1/4 andro advice

Vikingbro

Vikingbro

Active member
Good morning all. I am currently planning my next cycle which will consist of OLs 1 and 4 andro. I have 2 bottles of each (sup3r elite). Can anyone who has done this cycle and dosed before please advise me on timing of dosing and tell me if I am making any mistakes with my following plan?.I plan on 220 the first week of each followed by 330 of each all other weeks up to a total of 8/9 weeks. I plan on split dosing evenly throughout the day. I am unsure whether this compound can be taken on an empty stomach as I have read mixed reports that it should be taken with a fat or a meal? Can it be taken with a pre workout I.e OLs conquer amp'd or should it be taken away from this?
Thanks in advance for any advice and please feel free to chime in with any recommendations you may have.
 
No need to taper up dosage unless you're limited on how much you have. If your blood pressure is in normal range, a preworkout is fine; it's best to be safe and regularly check your blood pressure. And it shouldn't matter whether you take it with a meal or not, some say non-methyl's work better dosed with a meal and vice versa. Just see what works best for you.
 
Doing the same stack plus epiandro. As was said, no need to taper. These compounds are incredibly mild. I dose 3 times a day. 330 for both total, Epiandro is 200 in the am, then 100 each early afternoon and later afternoon with my 1/4 doses.
 
ryox82 said:
Doing the same stack plus epiandro. As was said, no need to taper. These compounds are incredibly mild. I dose 3 times a day. 330 for both total, Epiandro is 200 in the am, then 100 each early afternoon and later afternoon with my 1/4 doses.
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Thanks. I was thinking of throwing in some Epi too but wasn't sure as this is only my second ever cycle. My first being ostarine for 10 weeks which was good. I do however want to keep this as lean a bulk as I can so maybe Epi would be good to add?
 
My first time with these compounds dosed properly, and while I haven't been completely stricked, I expected the scale to move down considering that my clothes are fitting better. Nope, Up a 5 pounds. Could be water for all I know but the epiandro is supposed to help with that. We shall see.
 
These andros are "mild" but please dont let that make you complacent; they can still potentially jack up your BP and fubar lipids.

Id definitely space doses, as evenly as possible. Not necessary to take with food, but if you do fats are prefferable.

If youre serious about cycling and self-monitoring, get a cuff monitor.
 
NewAgeMayan said:
These andros are "mild" but please dont let that make you complacent; they can still potentially jack up your BP and fubar lipids.

Id definitely space doses, as evenly as possible. Not necessary to take with food, but if you do fats are prefferable.

If youre serious about cycling and self-monitoring, get a cuff monitor.
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Thanks. I do have a cuff monitor already as well as all ancillaries, serms, AI. Do you think ar1macare pro will suffice for this run? Have 2 bottles
 
Vikingbro said:
Thanks. I do have a cuff monitor already as well as all ancillaries, serms, AI. Do you think ar1macare pro will suffice for this run? Have 2 bottles
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Oh, good one man.

AP is great, but as you probably know the variables with the greatest impact are diet and hydration. Get as much healthy fats, leafy greens and water in as you can manage.

Regular cardio will also help immensely with keeping healthy body processes (ie dont look at it as merely a way to increase TDEE).
 
NewAgeMayan said:
Oh, good one man.

AP is great, but as you probably know the variables with the greatest impact are diet and hydration. Get as much healthy fats, leafy greens and water in as you can manage.

Regular cardio will also help immensely with keeping healthy body processes (ie dont look at it as merely a way to increase TDEE).
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Cool. You happen to have mentioned pretty much everything I do anyway. My diet is Keto so plenty of good fats. Water intake 6 litres a day. Fasted cardio every day.
 
I'm not sure how much 6 liters is, I know it's quite a bit based off 2L soda bottles, so my question for you is how often do you use the bathroom? XD

You should be alright tho, you don't really have to start the AI right away and if you keep your Estrogen in check you shouldn't have prolactin issues.
 
ChocolateClen said:
I'm not sure how much 6 liters is, I know it's quite a bit based off 2L soda bottles, so my question for you is how often do you use the bathroom? XD

You should be alright tho, you don't really have to start the AI right away and if you keep your Estrogen in check you shouldn't have prolactin issues.
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So a gallon is 3.8 litres. I almost have 2 gallons a day. I use the bathroom a lot! Especially being Keto. When in ketosis the body does not have much stored glycogen as my carb intake is less than 30 grams a day. This means no water to hold. Every gram of carbs stored can take up to 4 grams of water to store it throughout the body. No carbs, no excess water. Hence why my water intake is high.

With regards to the AI, I was going to dose 6.25 aromasin eod at the start of the cycle. Do u think I should not do this and if so what would your protocol be?
 
Vikingbro said:
So a gallon is 3.8 litres. I almost have 2 gallons a day. I use the bathroom a lot! Especially being Keto. When in ketosis the body does not have much stored glycogen as my carb intake is less than 30 grams a day. This means no water to hold. Every gram of carbs stored can take up to 4 grams of water to store it throughout the body. No carbs, no excess water. Hence why my water intake is high.

With regards to the AI, I was going to dose 6.25 aromasin eod at the start of the cycle. Do u think I should not do this and if so what would your protocol be?
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I'd do 12.5 eod, seems to be the norm for most people. Maybe 12.5 ed tho that's a rather high dose for what you're running
 
I would save the AI for emergencies only with the 2-step DHEAs. You're not getting a ton of conversion to Test anyway (comparatively) and if you add Epi, it has "AI like" effects on it's own. Estrogen is GOOD for lipids, joints, libido, IGF, lean mass accrual, etc... Keep an eye (not your hands) out for breast area issues, but I wouldn't even low-dose Aromasin for 4-DHEA. YMMV. Also, Epi can be run a lot higher - up to 1000mg/day. Experiment with what works best for you.
 
NewAgeMayan said:
These andros are "mild" but please dont let that make you complacent; they can still potentially jack up your BP and fubar lipids.

Id definitely space doses, as evenly as possible. Not necessary to take with food, but if you do fats are prefferable.

If youre serious about cycling and self-monitoring, get a cuff monitor.
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Do you happen to have any recommendations of good cuff monitors? Will an inexpensive ebay monitor suffice here, or are those likely to be terribly inaccurate?
 
The_Old_Guy said:
I would save the AI for emergencies only with the 2-step DHEAs. You're not getting a ton of conversion to Test anyway (comparatively) and if you add Epi, it has "AI like" effects on it's own. Estrogen is GOOD for lipids, joints, libido, IGF, lean mass accrual, etc... Keep an eye (not your hands) out for breast area issues, but I wouldn't even low-dose Aromasin for 4-DHEA. YMMV. Also, Epi can be run a lot higher - up to 1000mg/day. Experiment with what works best for you.
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I'd like to second this statement. Save the AI for when the need arises!

Don't be in a rush to add more drugs to your cycle. Keep it simple while you still can. If you cycle long enough, you will eventually need to add all sorts of drugs into the mix.
 
Toren said:
I'd like to second this statement. Save the AI for when the need arises!

Don't be in a rush to add more drugs to your cycle. Keep it simple while you still can. If you cycle long enough, you will eventually need to add all sorts of drugs into the mix.
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I want that pizza. And you're going to give it to me. Now.
 
123abcabcabc said:
I want that pizza. And you're going to give it to me. Now.
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Are you really sure you want thin crispy crust brushed with olive oil, as well as NY pepperoni and gooey mozzarella and cheddar cheese? Are you ready for the hassle of strings of cheese dancing between your mouth and your fingers? Should I even mention the homemade tomato sauce made with vine-ripened Italian tomatoes?
 
The_Old_Guy said:
I would save the AI for emergencies only with the 2-step DHEAs. You're not getting a ton of conversion to Test anyway (comparatively) and if you add Epi, it has "AI like" effects on it's own. Estrogen is GOOD for lipids, joints, libido, IGF, lean mass accrual, etc... Keep an eye (not your hands) out for breast area issues, but I wouldn't even low-dose Aromasin for 4-DHEA. YMMV. Also, Epi can be run a lot higher - up to 1000mg/day. Experiment with what works best for you.
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AIs, especially over the counter AIs are not for emergency estrogen situations. SERMS like nolvadex & ralox are.

And while these compounds' positive effects may be mild, their potential negative effects can be quite intense. Specifically when it comes to lipids, blood pressure, and hair loss. A regular dose of Epi made my hair start falling out like crazy. I take 200 mg of test every 10 days for HRT and I've never had problems with hair loss before. Perhaps the testosterone and epi-andro combination exacerbated the DHT related side effect of hair loss.

1-andro along with my normal HRT dose of test was comparable to a decent test / Deca / anavar cycle, and it's the only DHEA based pro hormone I'll touch now.

My point is that everybody's bodies react differently to chemical so what has great effects on one person might screw up someone else. If you can afford it- get your blood monitored regularly. If you don't mind drawing your own blood there's online Labs you could send the samples to 4 a very reasonable price. and the BP cuff is essential.

I would dose the 4 Andro before bed & upon waking, and the one Andro pre-workout and w/ yr wake up as well
 
Viator77 said:
AIs, especially over the counter AIs are not for emergency estrogen situations. SERMS like nolvadex & ralox are.

And while these compounds' positive effects may be mild, their potential negative effects can be quite intense. Specifically when it comes to lipids, blood pressure, and hair loss. A regular dose of Epi made my hair start falling out like crazy. I take 200 mg of test every 10 days for HRT and I've never had problems with hair loss before. Perhaps the testosterone and epi-andro combination exacerbated the DHT related side effect of hair loss.

1-andro along with my normal HRT dose of test was comparable to a decent test / Deca / anavar cycle, and it's the only DHEA based pro hormone I'll touch now.

My point is that everybody's bodies react differently to chemical so what has great effects on one person might screw up someone else. If you can afford it- get your blood monitored regularly. If you don't mind drawing your own blood there's online Labs you could send the samples to 4 a very reasonable price. and the BP cuff is essential.

I would dose the 4 Andro before bed & upon waking, and the one Andro pre-workout and w/ yr wake up as well
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If you're comparing 1 Andro with Deca I'm more than certain your source was giving you underdosed bunk or you didn't run it long enough. 1 Andro is probably my favorite DHEA based prohormone so far but it's no AAS, in terms of efficacy.
 
Viator77 said:
AIs, especially over the counter AIs are not for emergency estrogen situations. SERMS like nolvadex & ralox are.

And while these compounds' positive effects may be mild, their potential negative effects can be quite intense. Specifically when it comes to lipids, blood pressure, and hair loss. A regular dose of Epi made my hair start falling out like crazy. I take 200 mg of test every 10 days for HRT and I've never had problems with hair loss before. Perhaps the testosterone and epi-andro combination exacerbated the DHT related side effect of hair loss.

1-andro along with my normal HRT dose of test was comparable to a decent test / Deca / anavar cycle, and it's the only DHEA based pro hormone I'll touch now.

My point is that everybody's bodies react differently to chemical so what has great effects on one person might screw up someone else. If you can afford it- get your blood monitored regularly. If you don't mind drawing your own blood there's online Labs you could send the samples to 4 a very reasonable price. and the BP cuff is essential.

I would dose the 4 Andro before bed & upon waking, and the one Andro pre-workout and w/ yr wake up as well
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FYI the AI I have is aromasin pharma grade so hopefully that covers it.
 
Viator77 said:
AIs, especially over the counter AIs are not for emergency estrogen situations. SERMS like nolvadex & ralox are.
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SERMs on cycle are not the norm, for every 1 recco for doing so, 10 other experienced users will say no. Glad it works for you.

OTC "AI's" are useless IMO - if you're taking a drug for gains, take another for Estrogen.

You mention worrying about Lipids for example - Estrogen is your friend here. As well as the other 8? things I listed above.

While sure, anything can happen to anyone, 4-AD is just about adequate as a Test Base - but it doesn't have a high conversion rate. "Gyno" from 220-330mg 4-AD isn't that common. Do a 4-AD only cycle and see how much mass you put on - I'm betting not a lot.

If I had a problem - I'd want to knock out 98% of the Estrogen in 48hrs with Exemestane, rather than keep 100% of the Estrogen circulating and just block the receptor with a SERM. I'd probably do both initially if I was bailing on the cycle.

I stand by my statement that for the DSHEA Compliant, 2-Step Conversion 4-AD - Have Exemestane (Aromasin) standing by, but don't use it unless indicated by mid-cycle blood-work (not likely going to be done), or Estrogenic side effects in breast tissue. Especially when used along side a DHT compound like Epi.
 
Vikingbro said:
Can I ask why before bed and upon waking?
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I would take your total milligram dosage for the day, and divide it up to provide constant blood levels over the 24 hour period. So for a 110mg cap of 1-Andro, and a target of 330mg/Day (used in the West Texas A&M Study) - I'd do 7AM, 3PM, 11PM. Same for 4-AD (7AM 7PM if only doing 220 for example). EpiAndro has some acute effects as well, so taking one of those doses pre-workout is common. This is how I do my DHEAs.
 
I was never condoning SERM use while on cycle, just to have it in case of emergencies. If I said over the counter AI's are useless; another mistake. I meant over the counter PCT, for the most part is useless *without* pharmaceutical PCT measures. There are a lot of great herbal PCT add-ons such as forskolin and basically what's in a lot of the good OTC PTC products

And as far as the before bed and upon waking dose that was a bit of an exhaustion typo.

What I meant to say was to dose the 4 Andro and 1 andro before going to bed to help rebuild muscle while you're sleeping and growth hormone is at its highest. I would take my biggest dose of 4 Andro upon waking to mimic the body's natural testosterone pulse. But you're right keeping your hormone levels both high and even throughout the day is the best approach
 
NewAgeMayan said:
These andros are "mild" but please dont let that make you complacent; they can still potentially jack up your BP and fubar lipids.

Id definitely space doses, as evenly as possible. Not necessary to take with food, but if you do fats are prefferable.

If youre serious about cycling and self-monitoring, get a cuff monitor.
Click to expand...
Yeah the things are like 30 bucks on Amazon. Good investment. I got one to watch my cycle. So far so good, you might feel like you wasted your money, it proves there is an issue and then you'll be happy you had it.
 
sespress said:
Yeah the things are like 30 bucks on Amazon. Good investment. I got one to watch my cycle. So far so good, you might feel like you wasted your money, it proves there is an issue and then you'll be happy you had it.
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For sure man; one of the concerning things with high (or low) blood pressure is that it can be symptomless. Or, have symptoms you might not otherwise immediately think were BP related (or having an effect on BP).
 
BP is known as the silent killer. Most important aspect of health in my opinion besides adequate hydration/nutrition.
 
123abcabcabc said:
BP is known as the silent killer. Most important aspect of health in my opinion besides adequate hydration/nutrition.
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I'm so far lucky that I've never had an issue with BP. But you read it happens alot with hormone based drugs. I just keep an eye on it.
 
I've heard of people dropping staples like creatine on cycle so as to give the kidneys less sh1t to deal with. Anyone do this and if so what else do you drop from cycle?
 
Vikingbro said:
I've heard of people dropping staples like creatine on cycle so as to give the kidneys less sh1t to deal with. Anyone do this and if so what else do you drop from cycle?
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If your BP gets high drop the pre-workouts. I'm assuming you aren't on Clen or anything, but stay away from fat burners while on.
 
123abcabcabc said:
If your BP gets high drop the pre-workouts. I'm assuming you aren't on Clen or anything, but stay away from fat burners while on.
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Ok will do. I do Yohimbine and caffeine pre fasted cardio in mornings. Will ignit3 be ok instead or drop this too? I was going to drop my conqu3r ampd and dose Epi andro PWO instead for a little extra drive in the gym. Thoughts?
 
Vikingbro said:
Ok will do. I do Yohimbine and caffeine pre fasted cardio in mornings. Will ignit3 be ok instead or drop this too? I was going to drop my conqu3r ampd and dose Epi andro PWO instead for a little extra drive in the gym. Thoughts?
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Caffeine and Yohimbine are pretty mild and personally I wouldn't worry about those two while on. I'm not too familiar with Ignit3's profile so it's best to ask an OL rep.
 
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