Gops "who Don't Believe In Evolution" !!!

[CNorris]

Apparently you did not do your homework after being told. Look up how "webbed" shoulders (as a product of random mutation, perhaps) could have enabled a small animal to survive a fall from a tree from a height of 15 feet that the other animals would NOT survive, allowing this animal to reproduce and pass on such a trait. As other mutations (perhaps a more pronounced webbing that would offer air resistance enough to allow an animal to survive a fall of 25 feet.)

After millions of years of such advantages, traits would emerge and limbs modified.

You are absolutely incorrect that mid-developed appendages offer no advantage to survival.

Now go do your homework, and search for developement of say, an eye.

I hope you are kidding. How many of these reptiles hang out in trees and fall in order to develop worthless stub limbs. If they were to develop a wing, the bone in their stub limb would become hollow. This would be more likely to break in a fall than a regular limb even if they fell at a slightly differnt rate.

If these reptiles are hanging out in trees a lot, a webbed shoulder or wing is hardly the most adventageous mutuation a large population could have over a significant amount of time. Why didnt they develop strong and long limbs to grab the branches like a sloth? There is no reason for the population to develop incredibly complex wings when a simple claw that can grab would take much less time and be much more probable.

The imaginative reaches evolutionists take to describe the incredible diversity of life on this planet sounds as foolish as when I hear the story of Adam and Eve. I wish I had enough blind faith to become a Ned Flanders or a evolutionist but they both dont pass the smell test.

 

[kwyckemynd00]

well, your bangers hang outside the body to best regulate temperature to help sperm production

This is correct. They need to be about 3-5 degrees Fahrenheit cooler than the body, and this is why they move toward and away from the body.

we dont have back pain from standing up-right, we have back problems from not standing correctly.

Yeah, we evolved from creatures that do not stand upright, and this is why humans are prone to back problems and why humans are so prone to those little, loveable things we've come to know as hemorrhoids.

as for the eyes, i am just shocked that they work. evrything seems to work pretty much just right together and that is very wonderful.

No shock that they work at all. Look up the evolution of the eye, its actually interesting how eye's developed in three evolutionarily distinct branches of life starting simply from light sensitive cells developing into patches of light sensitive cells through a process of natural selection to concaved patches of light sensitive cells (allows for detecting movement) through natural selection, etc, etc. I

ts just strange that the optic nerve runs straight through the retina creating a blind spot.

And this brings me to the question, if Humans were to be gods perfect beings created in his likeness why the hell did he develop squid's eyes without an imperfection he gave humans?

 

[kwyckemynd00]

well, your bangers hang outside the body to best regulate temperature to help sperm production

This is correct. They need to be about 3-5 degrees Fahrenheit cooler than the body, and this is why they move toward and away from the body.

we dont have back pain from standing up-right, we have back problems from not standing correctly.

Actually, we evolved from creatures that do not stand upright, and this is why humans are prone to back problems and why humans are so prone to those little, loveable things we've come to know as hemorrhoids.

as for the eyes, i am just shocked that they work. evrything seems to work pretty much just right together and that is very wonderful.

No shock that they work at all. Look up the evolution of the eye, its actually interesting how eye's developed in three evolutionarily distinct branches of life starting simply from light sensitive cells developing into patches of light sensitive cells through a process of natural selection to concaved patches of light sensitive cells (allows for detecting movement) through natural selection, etc, etc. I

ts just strange that the optic nerve runs straight through the retina creating a blind spot.

And this brings me to the question, if Humans were to be gods perfect beings created in his likeness why the hell did he develop squid's eyes without an imperfection he gave humans?

 

[CNorris]

You can bring up all the petty little imperfections about humans all you want, but you cant explain why everything works so incredibly well. Evolution does not account for the irreducible complexity of almost every organ in the body. Most organs are like a car. Take out a couple minuscule spark plugs and your car is worthless.

Evolution does not explain the eye. I find it hilarious people are using one of the most complex and mysterious organs in the body to state their case for evolution. If a creature needed to be able to detect blurry lit environments to survive its screwed. Also why do some organisms have incredible senses of smell and hearing and antenna, far less complex organs to develop? Why don't all animals in the same region and environments have similar sense capabilities? If evolution took the most advantageous path and least complex path, there is no reason any creature on this planet should have eye sight.

There is no explanation on how a bat is able to detect a mosquito using echo location. The echo location must have started out being far far far less complex, like chirping and detecting sound bouncing of a huge object. Well if a bird couldn't see a large predator and needed to detect a chirp echo to detect it, its an eaten bird anyways. It wouldn't survive to be able to produce better chirp locating birds.

Its incredibly ironic when evolutionists talk about fairy tales. Their entire existence is a fairy tale. The most improbable fairy tale ever told.

 

[rockhard_4eva]

You are so ass backwards its scary.

No, living in a right wing religious country where children are taught that evolution is just a theory and are also taught about intelligent design is ass backwards.

How much longer till abortion will also be illegal. We already know about the stem cell thing.

Cant wait for the crusades to start again.

 

[rockhard_4eva]

You can bring up all the petty little imperfections about humans all you want, but you cant explain why everything works so incredibly well. Evolution does not account for the irreducible complexity of almost every organ in the body. Most organs are like a car. Take out a couple minuscule spark plugs and your car is worthless.

Evolution does not explain the eye. I find it hilarious people are using one of the most complex and mysterious organs in the body to state their case for evolution. If a creature needed to be able to detect blurry lit environments to survive its screwed. Also why do some organisms have incredible senses of smell and hearing and antenna, far less complex organs to develop? Why don't all animals in the same region and environments have similar sense capabilities? If evolution took the most advantageous path and least complex path, there is no reason any creature on this planet should have eye sight.

There is no explanation on how a bat is able to detect a mosquito using echo location. The echo location must have started out being far far far less complex, like chirping and detecting sound bouncing of a huge object. Well if a bird couldn't see a large predator and needed to detect a chirp echo to detect it, its an eaten bird anyways. It wouldn't survive to be able to produce better chirp locating birds.

Its incredibly ironic when evolutionists talk about fairy tales. Their entire existence is a fairy tale. The most improbable fairy tale ever told.

Evolution completly explains the eye. I'll try and dig up the research...

 

[kwyckemynd00]

Evolution completly explains the eye. I'll try and dig up the research...

Great explanation here: Invalid Link Removed

To all of you nay-sayers, at least read this. The evolution of the eye is perfectly explainable and reasonable. In fact, the eye evolved three separate times in three evolutionary divergent types of animal.

 

[CNorris]

No, living in a right wing religious country where children are taught that evolution is just a theory and are also taught about intelligent design is ass backwards.

How much longer till abortion will also be illegal. We already know about the stem cell thing.

Cant wait for the crusades to start again.

You are a delusional radical nut. You are just flat out insane. You cant even deal with simple rational facts in that crazy Michael Mooreon brain of yours. Please never reproduce or you will pollute the gene pool.

EVOLUTION IS A THEORY! A THEORY THAT HAS MORE HOLES THAN A SPONGE!

I don't agree with people being taught intelligent design, all I want is them taught the facts at hand. Not the lies and myths that evolutionists have spread across this planet for years.

How is abortion about evolution? All abortion proves is that society is not evolving towards a more advance state. They are evolving into sub human barbarians and killing babies. If you want to go off on random tangents, then I will ask what you think about waterboarding? I'm willing to bet you support giving terrorist lawyers and protecting them from water boarding, female interrogators and loud music while you approve of killing babies. People like you are a threat to human existence.

The crusades have already started. The radical left wing stalinists are on a great crusade to crush every moral fabric our society is build upon. Now please take a cyanide tainted breath mint and do this world a favor.

 

[kwyckemynd00]

Its incredibly ironic when evolutionists talk about fairy tales. Their entire existence is a fairy tale. The most improbable fairy tale ever told.

You don't understand natural selection and evolution.

Everyone is familiar with the results of the genetic mutation that cause downs syndrome, right? When people think of genetic mutations, they think of bad things. In the vast majority of scenarios mutations are bad. However, every once in a while a random genetic mutation will come along that will actually benefit the organism and make it more fit for its environment. When this happens, those genes are passed on to offspring which will also most likely be more fit for their environment. So, genetic mutations can be beneficial and through the process of natural selection the individuals with that beneficial phenotype will thrive, possibly become dominant to the point of replacing an existing species or maybe just continuing to diverge into their own separate species.

Animals don't evolve to their needs necessarily. And, they don't have the luxury of identifying what niche can be filled and adjusting their morphology for it.

What happens is that through a series of random mutations over a very long period of time beneficial traits get passed on that increase the fitness of a species in its environment. Over a long enough period of time the triats they develop become so different from their ancestors that taxonomists decide to classify them as different species.

It happens nothing like you think it does. Please don't call our beliefs fairy tales when you're completely ignorant of the science behind them.

 

[EEmain]

One thing that is growing faster than our knowledge is our ignorance...

Try watching what you think without EGO attachment... who is it that watches? Or maybe what?

"What you are looking for is what is looking" (St. Francis)

Sounds like a Christian Buddhist to this one. The only answer to God is to experience THAT. And then one must live that truth.

 

[CNorris]

Great explanation here: Invalid Link Removed

To all of you nay-sayers, at least read this. The evolution of the eye is perfectly explainable and reasonable. In fact, the eye evolved three separate times in three evolutionary divergent types of animal.

That explanation is theoretically possible. Theoretically I could build my own rocket and fly to the moon. I see little hard evidence and an incredible amount of superficial and highly theoretical ideas. I would not call any of that scientific evidence, more scientific speculation.

I want an simple explanation on the bio chemical level how a cell developed photo receptive capability and was able to encode and transmit a signal to an intelligent mass of cells (early brain) that could decode the signal and recognize the signal as being light. Then I might buy the speculation because it would have a foundation to be built on.

 

[kwyckemynd00]

EVOLUTION IS A THEORY! A THEORY THAT HAS MORE HOLES THAN A SPONGE!

You're confused on your usage of the world "theory". Evolution happens just like gravity happens. These are facts. However, there is a theory of evolution and a theory of gravity which attempt to explain the precise mechanisms behind the processes.

Yes, its true. We know gravity exists, but the "theory" of gravity is still being debated because we don't know how it works. Now that you know we dont' know how gravity works, are you going to refute it as well? No, I'd guess that you're going to accept that gravity happens because we can observe it, right? Well, in that same sense we can observe and have observed evolution and natural selection. We just haven't shown how it works, thus, we have a "theory" of evolution just like a "theory" of gravity.

 

[kwyckemynd00]

That explanation is theoretically possible. Theoretically I could build my own rocket and fly to the moon. I see little hard evidence and an incredible amount of superficial and highly theoretical ideas. I would not call any of that scientific evidence, more scientific speculation.

I want an simple explanation on the bio chemical level how a cell developed photo receptive capability and was able to encode and transmit a signal to an intelligent mass of cells (early brain) that could decode the signal and recognize the signal as being light. Then I might buy the speculation because it would have a foundation to be built on.

I'll give you that right after you give me an explanation of how the force of gravity works. Hint: you wont find an answer because all that exist are theories.

Edit: Don't give me Fg = G m1m2/r^2 or any other "description" of force of gravity. I'm talking about "how it works" just like you want to know "how evolution works".

 

[kwyckemynd00]

Hehe, AND, you have to tell me "exactly" how God works :lol: (sorry, couldn't help it).

That's what I find absolutely hilarious. The extremely religious want amazing proof of observable natural phenomenon yet are willing to go off of nothing and accept God as God exists in their religious texts.

 

[CNorris]

You're confused on your usage of the world "theory". Evolution happens just like gravity happens. These are facts. However, there is a theory of evolution and a theory of gravity which attempt to explain the precise mechanisms behind the processes.

Yes, its true. We know gravity exists, but the "theory" of gravity is still being debated because we don't know how it works. Now that you know we dont' know how gravity works, are you going to refute it as well? No, I'd guess that you're going to accept that gravity happens because we can observe it, right? Well, in that same sense we can observe and have observed evolution and natural selection. We just haven't shown how it works, thus, we have a "theory" of evolution just like a "theory" of gravity.

Every scientific idea is a theory. You can not prove a hypothesis true, you can only prove it incorrect.

There is a huge difference between evolution and gravity. The existence of life violates the most fundamental laws of thermodynamics and chemistry. The origins of life are completely unexplained and no empirical evidence supports the theory that life was able to randomly form. Evolution is by far the most problematic of the main theories in science today. People can ignore this fact all they want, but people like me will always be here to make sure people don't forget.

Gravity on the other hand has a wide body of empirical evidence to support it. True we don't know how or why it works, BUT WE CAN SEE IT IN ACTION! The only evolution we see in action are tiny mutations and speciation within a group of organisms. And we see absolutely NO empirical evidence of the natural formation of any type of life. This is why people are so desperate to find life on other planets and moons.

 

[CNorris]

Hehe, AND, you have to tell me "exactly" how God works :lol: (sorry, couldn't help it).

That's what I find absolutely hilarious. The extremely religious want amazing proof of observable natural phenomenon yet are willing to go off of nothing and accept God as God exists in their religious texts.

You could not be any more incorrect.
Think of SETI. The group that monitors radio transmissions in outer space looking for intelligent life. Imagine if they sent us instructions on how to build some crazy machine like in the movie Contact. No one would think this was random. The specified complexity of the message would tell anyone that it had to originate from an intelligent source. I see life the same way.

There is absolutely no evidence that it could randomly form, and countless of the most fundamental laws of science would have to be ignored for it to be even remotely possible. This leads me to the conclusion that there is a great force behind life. I did not say I believe in god, buddha, aliens or whatever. Every single observation I have ever made as a human being leads me to the conclusion that life is the greatest effect on this planet, and it has no scientific cause. So this cause must be outside our knowledge or outside science. My belief is it is outside of science, but that is a belief. Evolutionists cant admit they have faith and a belief. There is about as much evidence that life can randomly form as there is for Adam and Eve.

 

[kwyckemynd00]

Every scientific idea is a theory. You can not prove a hypothesis true, you can only prove it incorrect.

There is a huge difference between evolution and gravity. The existence of life violates the most fundamental laws of thermodynamics and chemistry.

No it doesn't. You're addressing "entropy of the universe must always increase or stay the same" when you refer to violating the laws of thermodynamics, right? Well, guess what? That is the case and the entropy of the universe is increasing. Guess what else? Entropy can and does decrease in parts of the universe as well!!! Yes, it can decrease, however, if it decreases somewhere it will increase that much or more somewhere else. So, technically, because life is "coming together" on earth doesn't mean that the (third?) law of thermodynamics was violated, not at all.

And, chemistry? You're out of your mind if you think that an early earth with high pressure, lots of water, and a huge cocktail of molecules (largely proteins) floating of the surface won't react.

The origins of life are completely unexplained and no empirical evidence supports the theory that life was able to randomly form.

This issue is completely separate from evolution. You're misinformed my friend.

Evolution is by far the most problematic of the main theories in science today. People can ignore this fact all they want, but people like me will always be here to make sure people don't forget.

You've not demonstrated how evolution is "the most problematic of the main theories in science today". Please do. And, don't forget to address the fact that our observation of evolution is a separate issue from our ability to explain it, as is our ability to observe gravity versus explain its cause.

Gravity on the other hand has a wide body of empirical evidence to support it. True we don't know how or why it works, BUT WE CAN SEE IT IN ACTION! The only evolution we see in action are tiny mutations and speciation within a group of organisms.

Yes, we see that, right? Thatis evolution in action. We CAN/DO/HAVE observe(d) evolution.

And we see absolutely NO empirical evidence of the natural formation of any type of life. This is why people are so desperate to find life on other planets and moons.

Spontaneous creation of life is a separate issue from evolution.

 

[kwyckemynd00]

You could not be any more incorrect.
Think of SETI. The group that monitors radio transmissions in outer space looking for intelligent life. Imagine if they sent us instructions on how to build some crazy machine like in the movie Contact. No one would think this was random. The specified complexity of the message would tell anyone that it had to originate from an intelligent source. I see life the same way.

I'm not following you here.

 

[amac]

My point being that how does one object change over time? How does a cell start displaying new characteristics? Also you didn't explain Bee's and Flowers became co-Dependant. Theres no doubt they are and they adapted to befit each other. But even with millions of years(time aside) What causes two things that are unlike to work together. Its not like one day the Bee got up and said to the flower. You give me nector and I'll pollinate other flowers for you? How would a flower realize that a bee could carry its pollen? And according to evolution Bees/Flowers weren't always on this planet.

Also what would cause a small mutation that conveniently becomes the right adaptation for the surroundings? If things were always randomly mutating we'd have allot of worthless non-functioning creatures and don't give me the spill about natural selection. Because there would be allot of things out there that would survive but have allot of useless mutations.

i haven't read past this post, so i don't know if you have fixed it later in the thread, but you are off on quite a few things...


first off, cells start displaying new characteristics completely randomly... how do they do this? UV rays damage dna, free radicals damage genetic information, mismatching of base pairs during processing of this info etc etc, there are literally hundreds of possibilities; pair this with the virtually infinite amount of genetic information transfer from dna->rna-> protein and all the other variations, that leads to an astronomical amount of mutations..

so why don't we all have 9 arms and 3 heads? because we have mechanisms to fix these random "breaks in the chain" ie. proteosome/ubq pathways, or something as simple as a single bp replacement/correction....along with that, a HUGE percentage of our genome is nonsense (introns etc), and isn't translated into anything we need, so the mutations aren't even noticed on a phenotypical level...

every once in a while though, certain mutations make it past all of these regulatory mechanisms that we have to prevent damage to our genetic makeup... **these mutations are not derived by the organism to help them adapt to the environment though, as many people believe... they are 100% RANDOM...
it could be positive or negative, all depending on the organism, it's environment, and countless other factors...

so let's say that the mutation was "positive" (relative term), for arguments sake let's say that we had an ice age, and dsade (purely for example purposes) had a mutation that gave him a thick furry coat on his entire body... now dsade is going to survive much more easily than i would because i don't have the gene for a furry coat, and i will freeze to death... so dsade will survive, reproduce (very often since he is now the fittest of the species), and chances are, that this new gene for the furry coat (which was originally a random mutation) will show up more often in the population as we continue down the generations... eventually, over a long time period (depending on reproduction habits for whatever organism this may be), this gene will most like be dominant, since the organisms who possess it survive more easily...

now lets say some other intelligent species looks at this change in dsade's kind without any knowledge of genetics or mutations... it will appear to them that the species "adapted" to the changing climate by developing a fur coat gene and managed to survive, when really it was a random mutation that happened to benefit the species over a VERY long time period... and in this same time period, literally millions of other mutations happened in other members of dsade's species, both positive and negative, and may have helped or hindered those affected..

i don't feel like going back to make sure i didnt make any mistakes because that was a lot of typing... but when you look at it with an understanding of cell biology and plain, simple darwinism... natural selection is a perfect model for what has happened over time



dr.liftalot, as you said "If things were always randomly mutating we'd have allot of worthless non-functioning creatures ............ Because there would be allot of things out there that would survive but have allot of useless mutations."

absolutely there are... but what we tend to do is look at "higher" organisms like humans, dogs, whatever... as humans, a generation takes like 25 years, so to see progress in our species is virtually impossible... to see this process happening at an appreciable rate look at something like bacteria, who can potentially double their population in hours, even minutes... the rapid changes in genetic makeup can be seen easily

bee's and flowers becoming independent didn't happen overnight, it was most likely a painfully slow process that just happened to click over a very long time

as human beings we try to make sense of everything in a way that we can understand it easily and relate to... not everything works that way, especially evolution..


i'm sorry if i am just repeating something that someone said earlier, as i said, i only read up to the post that i quoted above before i typed all this out... i'm sure a missed a lot of points because i get side tracked easily, but i would be more than happy to explain something i skimmed over, or possibly just typed out completely backwards...

i'm not trashing religion, i'm just very knowledgable in science, especially cell biology and genomics... so everything fits together nicely for me in the science camp as of right meow...

i think anyone who doesn't understand what i posted, or couldn't believe that evolution happens the way it is explained by darwin needs to read "the origin of species"... or at least read over evolution on wikipedia, it will hopefully help you understand

 

[CNorris]

And, chemistry? You're out of your mind if you think that an early earth with high pressure, lots of water, and a huge cocktail of molecules (largely proteins) floating of the surface won't react

HAHAHA! That sentence is just laughable. Sorry, I cant even read further that was so retarded.
Do you even know what a protein is? I just explained it. A protein is a BIOLOGICAL molecule that has no reason to exist except to sustain and be part of a living organism. Take away life and entropy causes that incredibly complex high energy molecule made up of a highly specific chain of hundreds of thosands of amino acids to wither away and break apart. If even one amino acid is screwed in the ordering of the protein, it falls apart and gets broken up. How do you think that 20 amino acids combined to form this molecule randomly, and 8 trillion proteins of 5 to 10 thousand types managed to form and sustain itself and reproduce in the early hostile environment they would have faced on this planet. There were no proteins just sitting around in the early days on this planet. There is no possible way even 20 amino acids were just laying around in some giant molecule cocktail. Amino acids had to reason to form, let alone all 20 of them exist side by side for the incredible number of years it would take for them to form some worthless non functional protein that would last about 10 seconds. Amino acids can be formed naturally with high energy input under very very perfect conditions, but going from an amino acid to a protein is like going from a letter to a book. A cell somehow formed? You have a lot of blind faith in very unscientific speculation.

Maybe I will educate you some more on the other points tomorrow. Until then study some bio chemistry.

 

[CNorris]

i'm not trashing religion, i'm just very knowledgable in science, especially cell biology and genomics... so everything fits together nicely for me in the science camp as of right meow...

i think anyone who doesn't understand what i posted, or couldn't believe that evolution happens the way it is explained by darwin needs to read "the origin of species"... or at least read over evolution on wikipedia, it will hopefully help you understand

Everything I have ever read about the incredible bio diversity on this planet, chemistry, bio chemistry, DNA, binary fission, mitosis RNA synthesis and on and on makes me absolutely laugh in the face of anyone that can understand these processes and believe they are a product of chance. I can not even imagine a blindly ignorant mind set.

You are the worst type of evolutionist. You apparently understand the undeniable improbability and impossibility of life randomly forming and you choose to ignore it. Enjoy drinking the kool aid of scientific myth. I will drink the kool aid of the persuit of ultimate truth.

 

[Tiberius]

I will drink the kool aid

Again?

 

[CNorris]

This is why the Church sees/saw the AIDS virus not as a virus (WHICH IS A FACKING PROTEIN BUT IS NOT LIFE, DOES NOT SUSTAIN LIFE, ETC.), but as God's revenge on homosexuality.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go blow my load into a condom and flush it down the toilet. Please give 5 minutes of slience for the billions of living soldiers that are about to be sent to heaven.

Are you speaking again? You bring nothing relevant to any discussion on this planet. Why you are blowing your load please take that cyanide breath mint like I suggested.

A virus is not a protein. You are a fool. A virus has DNA, can reproduce etc. A virus sustains life because it has the ability to reproduce and replicate when it is infecting a host. Please try again and make an ass out of yourself again.

 

[CNorris]

Again?

Way to misquote me. Thats the only way people like you can win any sort of honest debate.

 

[rockhard_4eva]

Are you speaking again? You bring nothing relevant to any discussion on this planet. Why you are blowing your load please take that cyanide breath mint like I suggested.

A virus is not a protein. You are a fool. A virus has DNA, can reproduce etc. A virus sustains life because it has the ability to reproduce and replicate when it is infecting a host. Please try again and make an ass out of yourself again.

A Virus is not a protein? A virus sustains life?

I do not expect you to understand what you are typing, because your knowledge of science seems to be derived from some biased source.

Let me guess, you were home schooled?

 

[rockhard_4eva]

Everything I have ever read about the incredible bio diversity on this planet, chemistry, bio chemistry, DNA, binary fission, mitosis RNA synthesis and on and on makes me absolutely laugh in the face of anyone that can understand these processes and believe they are a product of chance. I can not even imagine a blindly ignorant mind set.

You are the worst type of evolutionist. You apparently understand the undeniable improbability and impossibility of life randomly forming and you choose to ignore it. Enjoy drinking the kool aid of scientific myth. I will drink the kool aid of the persuit of ultimate truth.

No, you will drink the kool aid of the misguided right, which is actually tang.

It turns out, evolutionists believe the world to be over 6000 years old, which gives enough time for all the incredible biodiversity to evolve from lower species.

And for chirst's sake, evolution has nothing to do with a product of chance.

 

[CNorris]

A Virus is not a protein? A virus sustains life?

I do not expect you to understand what you are typing, because your knowledge of science seems to be derived from some biased source.

Let me guess, you were home schooled?

LOL! You are hilarious!

1) A VIRUS IS NOT A ****ING PROTEIN. SOME SCIENTISTS WANT TO ACTUALLY CHANGE THE DEFINITION OF LIFE BECAUSE A VIRUS IS ESSENTIALLY A LIFE FORM, BUT MISSING A FEW OF THE CHARACTERISTICS. IT IS A VERY UNIQUE FORM OF LIFE.
2) A VIRUS HAS DNA AND CAN REPLICATE ITSELF
3) AN ORGANISM THAT REPLICATES ITSELF PRODUCES AND SUSTAINS ITS OWN FORM OF LIFE
4) I HAVE A DEGREE IN ELECTRICAL ENGINEERING FROM A VERY LIBERAL PUBLIC UNIVERSITY.
5) I AM AN ENGINEER FOR A COMPANY IN THE TOP 10 OF THE FORTUNE 500 LIST.
6) I MAKE MORE MONEY THAN YOU CAN EVER DREAM OF.

 

[CNorris]

No, you will drink the kool aid of the misguided right, which is actually tang.

It turns out, evolutionists believe the world to be over 6000 years old, which gives enough time for all the incredible biodiversity to evolve from lower species.

And for chirst's sake, evolution has nothing to do with a product of chance.

I never said i believed the world is 6000 years old. That is a common and foolish assumption people like you try and make because it helps you attempt to discredit anyone that points out the flaws in evolution.

Evolution has EVERYTHING TO DO WITH THE PRODUCT OF CHANCE!!!!!!!!
If it wasnt chance, what was the guiding force behind life? Luke Sywalker, Chewbacca? Genetic mutation = 100% chance.
Random formation of life = 100% chance.
A genetic mutation becoming hereditary and being able to be passed in DNA = 100% chance.

Once again you make an asshat of yourself.

 

[kwyckemynd00]

HAHAHA! That sentence is just laughable. Sorry, I cant even read further that was so retarded.
Do you even know what a protein is? I just explained it. A protein is a BIOLOGICAL molecule that has no reason to exist except to sustain and be part of a living organism. Take away life and entropy causes that incredibly complex high energy molecule made up of a highly specific chain of hundreds of thosands of amino acids to wither away and break apart. If even one amino acid is screwed in the ordering of the protein, it falls apart and gets broken up. How do you think that 20 amino acids combined to form this molecule randomly, and 8 trillion proteins of 5 to 10 thousand types managed to form and sustain itself and reproduce in the early hostile environment they would have faced on this planet. There were no proteins just sitting around in the early days on this planet. There is no possible way even 20 amino acids were just laying around in some giant molecule cocktail. Amino acids had to reason to form, let alone all 20 of them exist side by side for the incredible number of years it would take for them to form some worthless non functional protein that would last about 10 seconds. Amino acids can be formed naturally with high energy input under very very perfect conditions, but going from an amino acid to a protein is like going from a letter to a book. A cell somehow formed? You have a lot of blind faith in very unscientific speculation.

Maybe I will educate you some more on the other points tomorrow. Until then study some bio chemistry.

You're barking up the wrong tree here retard. You have no idea what you're talking about, and I very much do. Here is an amino acid:
Invalid Link Removed
Notice the composition of the molecule, nitrogen, carbon, oxygen, and hydrogen. Those were all very abundant atoms in early earth.

The possibility of amino acid formation in the primordial stage of the earth has been essentially proven for 50 years Invalid Link Removed

Not only did the primordial soup experiment result in all 20 amino acids being formed, it also formed adenine, a nucleic acid seen in DNA and RNA.

In addition, there are only about 20 amino acids naturally occurring "on earth". We've discovered close to 90 amino acids!! Where did the rest come from? A freaking asteroid! Explain that one moron. We found freaking amino acids on an asteroid.

And, don't go bashing the belief that a cell could have spontaneously formed. At least scientists can reasonably speculate on formation. You believe that the God of the bible poofed us here in a process that completely contradicts all we've ever discovered with our extremely accurate scientific tools for ageing such things as fossils, bones, etc.

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. You know about as much about biochemistry as a rock does about taking a crap. If I asked you why an amino acid is called an amino acid you'd have to google it.

And, your useage of the word entropy clearly proves you know nothing of thermodynamics. You said "Take away life and entropy causes that incredibly complex high energy molecule made up of a highly specific chain of hundreds of thosands of amino acids to wither away and break apart. " which would make any chemist / physicist just laugh at you until they sharted so much they'd slip and break their necks. Entropy doesn't "cause" anything. Its a description of how processes spontaneously occur. In the entire system of the universe, the entropy is increasing meaning that the amount of disorder is increasing. However, this doesn't not mean that a specific part of a system cannot see a decrease in entropy! You cleaning your room into an orderly situation does not violate the 2nd law of thermodynamics and tear apart the fabric of our universe (if you don't understand that analogy you've never even taken a physics/chem course).

Seriously CNorris, I'd recommend spending a few more years in sciences courses before you try to bring this debate to my table. And, sure as hell don't be stupid enough to pretend to try and educate me in these areas when you obviously have no education in these areas. If you were educated in biology/chemistry/physics either you're a total idiot or a total slacker.

I'm not denying the possibility that a God of sorts exists. In fact, I believe that its highly possible. But, if God does exist he didn't poof us here and he engineered life on earth with the ability to evolve.

 

[kwyckemynd00]

LOL! You are hilarious!

1) A VIRUS IS NOT A ****ING PROTEIN. SOME SCIENTISTS WANT TO ACTUALLY CHANGE THE DEFINITION OF LIFE BECAUSE A VIRUS IS ESSENTIALLY A LIFE FORM, BUT MISSING A FEW OF THE CHARACTERISTICS. IT IS A VERY UNIQUE FORM OF LIFE.

Its not a unique form of life by current definition it is not alive, as you just said...but that's "definition".

2) A VIRUS HAS DNA AND CAN REPLICATE ITSELF
3) AN ORGANISM THAT REPLICATES ITSELF PRODUCES AND SUSTAINS ITS OWN FORM OF LIFE

A virus CANNOT replicate itself. It can only inject its DNA into a host which has the equipment to replicate it. It is not capable of replication!

4) I HAVE A DEGREE IN ELECTRICAL ENGINEERING FROM A VERY LIBERAL PUBLIC UNIVERSITY.
5) I AM AN ENGINEER FOR A COMPANY IN THE TOP 10 OF THE FORTUNE 500 LIST.

Then:
1) quit pretending you know anything about biology / biochem / chem / etc.
2) If you're an electrical engineer, why is your concept of entropy so freaking poor? You would have surely spent some time in physics classes.

6) I MAKE MORE MONEY THAN YOU CAN EVER DREAM OF.

:trout:

 

[CNorris]

You're barking up the wrong tree here retard. You have no idea what you're talking about, and I very much do. Here is an amino acid:
Invalid Link Removed
Notice the composition of the molecule, nitrogen, carbon, oxygen, and hydrogen. Those were all very abundant atoms in early earth.

The possibility of amino acid formation in the primordial stage of the earth has been essentially proven for 50 years Invalid Link Removed

Not only did the primordial soup experiment result in all 20 amino acids being formed, it also formed adenine, a nucleic acid seen in DNA and RNA.

In addition, there are only about 20 amino acids naturally occurring "on earth". We've discovered close to 90 amino acids!! Where did the rest come from? A freaking asteroid! Explain that one moron. We found freaking amino acids on an asteroid.

And, don't go bashing the belief that a cell could have spontaneously formed. At least scientists can reasonably speculate on formation. You believe that the God of the bible poofed us here in a process that completely contradicts all we've ever discovered with our extremely accurate scientific tools for ageing such things as fossils, bones, etc.

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. You know about as much about biochemistry as a rock does about taking a crap. If I asked you why an amino acid is called an amino acid you'd have to google it.

And, your useage of the word entropy clearly proves you know nothing of thermodynamics. You said "Take away life and entropy causes that incredibly complex high energy molecule made up of a highly specific chain of hundreds of thosands of amino acids to wither away and break apart. " which would make any chemist / physicist just laugh at you until they sharted so much they'd slip and break their necks. Entropy doesn't "cause" anything. Its a description of how processes spontaneously occur. In the entire system of the universe, the entropy is increasing meaning that the amount of disorder is increasing. However, this doesn't not mean that a specific part of a system cannot see a decrease in entropy! You cleaning your room into an orderly situation does not violate the 2nd law of thermodynamics and tear apart the fabric of our universe (if you don't understand that analogy you've never even taken a physics/chem course).

Seriously CNorris, I'd recommend spending a few more years in sciences courses before you try to bring this debate to my table. And, sure as hell don't be stupid enough to pretend to try and educate me in these areas when you obviously have no education in these areas. If you were educated in biology/chemistry/physics either you're a total idiot or a total slacker.

I'm not denying the possibility that a God of sorts exists. In fact, I believe that its highly possible. But, if God does exist he didn't poof us here and he engineered life on earth with the ability to evolve.

Im done responding to your pathetic mind. You say I dont konw anything about science, and you claim proteins were just everywhere is a chemical soup early on in the earth's history? That is like Rosie Odonnel calling someone else fat ugly and stupid. Sorry but you lost this argument before you began. You are a fool, you know nothing of science. Go ahead and worship your chemical bath and lightning and keep making stupid and incorrect assumptions about me and others that point out the absolute absurdity in your faith. You are a ****ing religous zealot as much as any Muslim or Christian. I would debate you if you had any good points, but people have run out of good points on this thread. I am done posting here. Enjoy your baseless worthless existance.

 

[rockhard_4eva]

LOL! You are hilarious!

1) A VIRUS IS NOT A ****ING PROTEIN. SOME SCIENTISTS WANT TO ACTUALLY CHANGE THE DEFINITION OF LIFE BECAUSE A VIRUS IS ESSENTIALLY A LIFE FORM, BUT MISSING A FEW OF THE CHARACTERISTICS. IT IS A VERY UNIQUE FORM OF LIFE.
2) A VIRUS HAS DNA AND CAN REPLICATE ITSELF
3) AN ORGANISM THAT REPLICATES ITSELF PRODUCES AND SUSTAINS ITS OWN FORM OF LIFE
4) I HAVE A DEGREE IN ELECTRICAL ENGINEERING FROM A VERY LIBERAL PUBLIC UNIVERSITY.
5) I AM AN ENGINEER FOR A COMPANY IN THE TOP 10 OF THE FORTUNE 500 LIST.
6) I MAKE MORE MONEY THAN YOU CAN EVER DREAM OF.

WOW!

You forgot number 7: You have a bigger **** than I could ever dream of.

I can tell you really do have an education, because not only did you state that you have a degree in electrical engineering from an all boys school, but also that you work as an.....drum roll......an engineer.

I like point number 2. Its a classic. Viruses have dna, but not rna, because rna belongs to the devil.

 

[rockhard_4eva]

Hey kwyckemynd00,

I think this dude is a little out there. Anyone with knowledge of basic biology wouldn't be making the mistakes this guy is.

But he makes more money than me.

 

[CNorris]

Its not a unique form of life by current definition it is not alive, as you just said...but that's "definition".
A virus CANNOT replicate itself. It can only inject its DNA into a host which has the equipment to replicate it. It is not capable of replication!

A virus has DNA, can reproduce etc. A virus sustains life because it has the ability to reproduce and replicate when it is infecting a host. Please try again and make an ass out of yourself again.

You did not teach me anything with that sentence. Try again.
Then:
1) quit pretending you know anything about biology / biochem / chem / etc.

Part of engineering is taking science classes in all areas. I took basically every form of science there is in College.

2) If you're an electrical engineer, why is your concept of entropy so freaking poor? You would have surely spent some time in physics classes.

LOL! Coming from the guy that thinks proteins just flew around and bounced off each other is a primordial chemical bath! :icon_lol:

OK This is my last post. You people are proof we aren't evolving to a more advanced state.

 

[kwyckemynd00]

Im done responding to your pathetic mind. You say I dont konw anything about science, and you claim proteins were just everywhere is a chemical soup early on in the earth's history? That is like Rosie Odonnel calling someone else fat ugly and stupid. Sorry but you lost this argument before you began. You are a fool, you know nothing of science. Go ahead and worship your chemical bath and lightning and keep making stupid and incorrect assumptions about me and others that point out the absolute absurdity in your faith. You are a ****ing religous zealot as much as any Muslim or Christian. I would debate you if you had any good points, but people have run out of good points on this thread. I am done posting here. Enjoy your baseless worthless existance.

You've got to be kidding me. You are probably the most delusional person I've ever come across.

In addiiton, during this entire "debate" (I'd hardly call it a debate considering I make points and you cry about how their invalid without making a counter point) you've said nothing....and a lot of it. All you've said so far is that you're "deh gr8ness" and we suck.

How did it feel having your ass handed to you?

 

[kwyckemynd00]

OK This is my last post. You people are proof we aren't evolving to a more advanced state.

And this is proof you don't understand the concepts of both evolution and natural selection.

 

[CNorris]

You've got to be kidding me. You are probably the most delusional person I've ever come across.

In addiiton, during this entire "debate" (I'd hardly call it a debate considering I make points and you cry about how their invalid without making a counter point) you've said nothing....and a lot of it. All you've said so far is that you're "deh gr8ness" and we suck.

How did it feel having your ass handed to you?

LOL! You dont understand what I am even saying so you just pretend you are making good points. I never said I was better than anyone except for the idiot that posted above you. My morning bowel movement is better than him.

Have a nice life!

 

[CNorris]

And this is proof you don't understand the concepts of both evolution and natural selection.

Wow. I fully understand them and that is the problem. The more you dig into it and lower you go on a physical scale, the more it doesn't pass the smell test. OK LAST POST FOR GOOD

:bb3:

 

[rockhard_4eva]

Bye Bye.

 

[kwyckemynd00]

LOL! You dont understand what I am even saying so you just pretend you are making good points. I never said I was better than anyone except for the idiot that posted above you. My morning bowel movement is better than him.

Have a nice life!

Of course I don't understand what you're saying, its incomprehensible. You make no sense.

E.G. You blabber on about me being stupid for believing that proteins and amino acids existed in earths early (primordial) state, and then I prove how much of an uninformed idiot you are when I provide a link to an experiement which replicated the primordial "soup" and created all known amino acids and a nucleic acid with just a short amount of time, a few gases, water, and electricity and then further punished your idiotic arguement by enlightening you with teh fact that we've found asteroids with 90 amino acids on them (more than exist on earth by far). What was your response? You called me stupid.

Then you talk about entropy as if it were a tangible thing that can effect other things, which is ridiculous.

I could go on for ages but its pointless.

Either you can't take being wrong or your even more "intellectually challenged" than I thought.

 

[spunkles182]

You're barking up the wrong tree here retard. You have no idea what you're talking about, and I very much do. Here is an amino acid:
Invalid Link Removed
Notice the composition of the molecule, nitrogen, carbon, oxygen, and hydrogen. Those were all very abundant atoms in early earth.

The possibility of amino acid formation in the primordial stage of the earth has been essentially proven for 50 years Invalid Link Removed

Not only did the primordial soup experiment result in all 20 amino acids being formed, it also formed adenine, a nucleic acid seen in DNA and RNA.

In addition, there are only about 20 amino acids naturally occurring "on earth". We've discovered close to 90 amino acids!! Where did the rest come from? A freaking asteroid! Explain that one moron. We found freaking amino acids on an asteroid.

And, don't go bashing the belief that a cell could have spontaneously formed. At least scientists can reasonably speculate on formation. You believe that the God of the bible poofed us here in a process that completely contradicts all we've ever discovered with our extremely accurate scientific tools for ageing such things as fossils, bones, etc.

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. You know about as much about biochemistry as a rock does about taking a crap. If I asked you why an amino acid is called an amino acid you'd have to google it.

And, your useage of the word entropy clearly proves you know nothing of thermodynamics. You said "Take away life and entropy causes that incredibly complex high energy molecule made up of a highly specific chain of hundreds of thosands of amino acids to wither away and break apart. " which would make any chemist / physicist just laugh at you until they sharted so much they'd slip and break their necks. Entropy doesn't "cause" anything. Its a description of how processes spontaneously occur. In the entire system of the universe, the entropy is increasing meaning that the amount of disorder is increasing. However, this doesn't not mean that a specific part of a system cannot see a decrease in entropy! You cleaning your room into an orderly situation does not violate the 2nd law of thermodynamics and tear apart the fabric of our universe (if you don't understand that analogy you've never even taken a physics/chem course).

Seriously CNorris, I'd recommend spending a few more years in sciences courses before you try to bring this debate to my table. And, sure as hell don't be stupid enough to pretend to try and educate me in these areas when you obviously have no education in these areas. If you were educated in biology/chemistry/physics either you're a total idiot or a total slacker.

I'm not denying the possibility that a God of sorts exists. In fact, I believe that its highly possible. But, if God does exist he didn't poof us here and he engineered life on earth with the ability to evolve.

ouch. CNorris got schooled.
:bow28:

 

[kwyckemynd00]

Just an FYI, I'm not saying I believe the primordial soup theory. There are many theories out there, none of which have me convinced. I was simply addressing the issue that CNorris is an idiot for trying to make a mockery of the fact that proteins and amino acids existed in the ocean at that time.

In addition, I want to highlight AGAIN that the beginnings of life and evolution are actually mutually exclusive and are in no way dependent on one another. This was originally about evolution and CNorris, in traditional form, could not hold an argument and went off on some wild tangent about the origins of life so he didn't have to argue evolution.

 

[kwyckemynd00]

This whole topic has got me thinking about extraterrestrial life. Whenever I look at the pictures of our universe taken by the Hubble, I'm overwhelmed with the idea that it just doesn't seem possible that we're alone.

Invalid Link Removed

Those are just a small sample of the stars (many of which containing solar systems that may have earth like planets) in our universe.

And, taking into consideration its believed Jupiters Europa may possibly have life and considering we've found what we believe could possibly be bacterial fossils along with polycyclic aromatic molecules on asteroids, it seems that its highly likely rather than highly unlikely that we're not alone.

Can't wait to see what the future has in store with regard to the search for extraterrestrial life.

Edit: By the way ChumpNorris...if the 2nd law of thermodynamics would restrict proteins and amino acids from forming, how the hell did these stars form? And, I've been waiting for your response for 40 minutes now (says you've been "typing a response" since 10:50 in your profile), but its about time to go to bed...just admit you've been outwitted, outclassed, and just all around stomped on and we can let bygones be bygones.

 

[firefighter2032]

CHICAGO (Reuters) - When faced with extinction, butterflies on two South Pacific islands quickly developed genetic defenses that helped them fight back, a team of international researchers said on Tuesday.

They said the butterflies' tale is the fastest example of natural selection observed to date and shows evolution can happen quickly when the stakes are high.

In 2001, male Hypolimnas bolina butterflies on the Samoan islands of Savaii and Upolu were extremely rare. Just 1 percent of these butterflies -- known commonly as Blue Moon or Great Eggfly -- were male. They were under attack by the Wolbachia bacteria, a parasite passed through the female that kills off male butterflies before they can hatch.

Last year, the numbers of males had either reached or were approaching those of females. They were helped by the development of a genetic mutation that suppresses the bacteria, sparing the males and allowing them to repopulate quickly.

"This is one of the most clear and fastest cases of evolution under natural selection," said Sylvain Charlat of University College London, whose study appears in the journal Science.

Charlat, who is also affiliated with the University of California, Berkeley, worked with University College London researcher Gregory Hurst. In prior studies, they reported that the butterflies found ways to adapt to a scarcity of males.

"The males had a very high mating capacity and the females mated more," he said in a telephone interview.

To test whether the male butterflies' resurgence was due to genetic changes in the butterflies or changes in the parasite, he and colleagues bred infected female butterflies with butterflies from a different island that did not have the genetic mutation.

The butterfly offspring of this pairing were then bred with butterflies from a non-infected island to dilute the gene that suppressed the parasite.

"After we did that for three generations, we came back to complete male killing," Charlat said.

NATURAL SELECTION

"That demonstrated that the observed pattern was due to suppression and not due to another phenomenon," he said.

The researchers are not sure whether the gene that suppressed the parasite emerged by chance from a mutation in the local population or whether it was introduced by migratory Southeast Asian butterflies in which the mutation existed.

What is clear, they said, is the repopulation of male butterflies illustrates rapid natural selection, a process in which traits that help a species survive become more prominent in a population.

Natural selection typically moves very slowly, sometimes over hundreds of years, they said, but when under severe attack, this process was accelerated.

"It is the speed of the process that demonstrates the intensity of the selection," Charlat said.

"The take-home message is that evolution can be really, really fast."



Interesting article I read off of Yahoo...the last line says a lot.