spunkles182
Member
its stupid. too easy to get around. if the whole argument is that the current system decreases the incentive to work then why not a flat tax. that makes more sence.
The Income Tax
- Thread starter Thrall
- Start date
its stupid. too easy to get around. if the whole argument is that the current system decreases the incentive to work then why not a flat tax. that makes more sence.
Tiberius
Member
Please explain how a fair tax is easy to get around since the sale of any good gets taxed. Only way to get around it is to sell goods off the books.
spunkles182
Member
yes off the books, people just trading with each other, black market, and you can just buy used goods and buy off the internet. used goods are not taxed and with the internet you can buy whatever you want from another country.
not to meantion that its actually a 30% tax and not 23% like it implies. its 23% on gross purchases so a $20,000 car would actually cost 26,000 (6,000/26,000 = 23%) not 24,600 which they imply.
and it does not say that the gas tax is going to be taken off. so a $3.00 gallon of gas now would cost $3.90 (.90/3.90 = 23%) under "fair tax".
also what if inflation out paces real wages?
Tiberius
Member
Shipping from other countries typically costs more than 23% unless it is a valuable but lightweight item.
As for black market, that exists now. Anything off the books won't change because off the books selling is already done to avoid INCOME taxes. Fair tax wouldn't change that one way or another.
whether it is 23% or 30% has nothing to do with it being "easy ot avoid."
As for the cost, even at 30% I'd save a ****load of money. In fact, I'd save an incredible ****load of money because my wife and I like to live modestly as opposed to buy insane luxury cars, several mansions, boats, diamond "bling, and tons of other worthless junk rich people blow their cash on. My taxes would drop to next to nothing compared to what I shell out now.
It's 2.33 a gallon by me right now. In any case, gas taxes are mostly state IIRC. Obviously this wouldn't change any state taxes.
That happens NOW. The average pay raise in corporate America for the lowly peon and even middle management is a paultry 2-3%. Inflation increase at roughly 7%. So inflation is most definitely outpacing wages.
But here's the thing with this. You drop income tax and suddenly people have a ton more money. If they're stupid they'll spend it on buying more stuff. If they are smart though they'll just continue to buy only the crap they've been buying and there's no way they'd end up paying more than they shell out in income taxes now. Especially since the Fair Tax isn't added to "essential" goods like food. For the working poor, the largest chunk of their money goes to rent and the second largest goes towards food. Neither of those would be taxed under the Fair Tax.
spunkles182
Member
Shipping from other countries typically costs more than 23% unless it is a valuable but lightweight item.
yeah freight cost does matter but if you bought something for $100, lets say clothes, youre saying that shipping would cost would be over $30 on that?
As for black market, that exists now. Anything off the books won't change because off the books selling is already done to avoid INCOME taxes. Fair tax wouldn't change that one way or another.
:blink: certainly would. the black market on wages would certainly be different from a black market on consumption. wages (INCOME tax) and consumption (sales tax) are different(
whether it is 23% or 30% has nothing to do with it being "easy ot avoid."
As for the cost, even at 30% I'd save a ****load of money. In fact, I'd save an incredible ****load of money because my wife and I like to live modestly as opposed to buy insane luxury cars, several mansions, boats, diamond "bling, and tons of other worthless junk rich people blow their cash on. My taxes would drop to next to nothing compared to what I shell out now.
i probably worded it wrong. this wasnt meant to prove that it was easy to avoid. just to prove that it was misleading
It's 2.33 a gallon by me right now. In any case, gas taxes are mostly state IIRC. Obviously this wouldn't change any state taxes.
geeze where do you live? its $3.00 here right now. i should move
That happens NOW. The average pay raise in corporate America for the lowly peon and even middle management is a paultry 2-3%. Inflation increase at roughly 7%. So inflation is most definitely outpacing wages.
7% inflation :blink: where do you live???
we havent had 7% inflation since the late 70s early 80's. (inflation is now between 2 and 3%)
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the point was that our income tax now is index to the inflation rate (meaning that if your income goes up with the inflation rate, your tax rate doesn't). There is no indexing with the sales tax. As goods become more expensive, you have only two choices: pay more in taxes or do without the things you need.
The whole issue isnt how we raise the taxes but what we spend them on. you can change how the pie is sliced but the amount of the entire pie remains the same. we need to reduce gov spending. the fair tax is too much like socialism for me. The goverment giving 300 million people a check every month isnt the way to go.
yeah freight cost does matter but if you bought something for $100, lets say clothes, youre saying that shipping would cost would be over $30 on that?
As for black market, that exists now. Anything off the books won't change because off the books selling is already done to avoid INCOME taxes. Fair tax wouldn't change that one way or another.
:blink: certainly would. the black market on wages would certainly be different from a black market on consumption. wages (INCOME tax) and consumption (sales tax) are different(
whether it is 23% or 30% has nothing to do with it being "easy ot avoid."
As for the cost, even at 30% I'd save a ****load of money. In fact, I'd save an incredible ****load of money because my wife and I like to live modestly as opposed to buy insane luxury cars, several mansions, boats, diamond "bling, and tons of other worthless junk rich people blow their cash on. My taxes would drop to next to nothing compared to what I shell out now.
i probably worded it wrong. this wasnt meant to prove that it was easy to avoid. just to prove that it was misleading
It's 2.33 a gallon by me right now. In any case, gas taxes are mostly state IIRC. Obviously this wouldn't change any state taxes.
geeze where do you live? its $3.00 here right now. i should move
That happens NOW. The average pay raise in corporate America for the lowly peon and even middle management is a paultry 2-3%. Inflation increase at roughly 7%. So inflation is most definitely outpacing wages.
7% inflation :blink: where do you live???
we havent had 7% inflation since the late 70s early 80's. (inflation is now between 2 and 3%)
Invalid Link Removed
the point was that our income tax now is index to the inflation rate (meaning that if your income goes up with the inflation rate, your tax rate doesn't). There is no indexing with the sales tax. As goods become more expensive, you have only two choices: pay more in taxes or do without the things you need.
The whole issue isnt how we raise the taxes but what we spend them on. you can change how the pie is sliced but the amount of the entire pie remains the same. we need to reduce gov spending. the fair tax is too much like socialism for me. The goverment giving 300 million people a check every month isnt the way to go.
spunkles182
Member
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its a good read on the fair tax
its a good read on the fair tax
rightship3
New member
+1 for the fairtax.
Simple, fair, convenient, and best yet no April rush to decipher the latest tax code.
Simple, fair, convenient, and best yet no April rush to decipher the latest tax code.