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real distinguished abs

and if your gonna do abs you need mind-muscle connection and should squeeze it at max contraction. Slow controlled get you muscle size. Not erratic convultions.
 
Ive always been taught to do them with explosive power at thai boxing and have never had an injury from it, and thats where I got big abs from. If anything its your neck that would worry me the most more than lower back. My lower back doesnt even come into it. The only way you can hurt your neck is by levering off your head with your hands (pushing on it). Your hands should be off your head or just touching them.

The way I do them is laying on my back and bringing knees and elbows up to meet each other, then back down again. I dont know if thats how you do yours. I certainly dont recomend doing them exposive if your doing normal situps with your feet anchored.

Ive done crunches slow and ive done them fast and for me, the fast ones with more reps worked a lot better.
 
I think that's the difference between form vs. function. The way you work them allows you to use them in a way meant for your sport. IE taking a hit to the gut, or even biulding endurance in the abdominals.

Not the wrong way in your case, just different. With different goals in mind.
 
No no, Im talking about pure size here. Mine were huge from doing it this way and so where everyone elses in the class who was fairly lean. It just seemed to work well. I notice though that if i didnt do the alternating sumos, I wouldnt get a very good result. Its the hitting it from the side as well that makes them look good and it hits the obliques very well too.

I know your meant to do them slowly and even hold them and stuff, but Ive just found that doing them explosive with more sets worked better.
 
some times results are seen despite what we due. Compare and contrast body fat % before you started and after.

Lots of fat peopel have awesome abs, you just can't see them. Your abs aren't gonna grow very much. Period. As far as size goes. So if your losing any bodyfat at all it's gonna make them seem like their off the chain.
 
I dont agree. I think you can get a lot of size from your abs and a lot of different shapes too. I have always had a very low body fat and my gains or perseved gains had nothing to do with body fat.

Its the same old same old, everyones got a different approach. Im just throwing mine out there for some ideas.
 
different approaches aside, I do agree the abs will grow but not to a ridiculous extent. And I also don't think that growth of ANY muscle comes from low weight high reps. Your abs are muscle tissue no matter which way you slice it. If low weight high reps builds muscle then how come X-country runner's legs aren't tree trunks?
 
You can have an opinion based on anecdotel evidence, but it doesn't mean your results coinside with that specific technique. I broke up with my girlfriend and gained 5 pounds. Doesn't mean my ab training at the time was lacking vs. normal. It means I ate like **** and was stressed out.

Like I said - results are seen despite what some people do. Doesn't mean it's right. Science is science brother. Despite what every one else saw in the class - it's a change in training methods - which reap results for a short amount of time piled on new stress in the form of cardio like activity - reducing body fat. and may be a SOME new muscle, but none that's gonna knock your socks off and none that can be reproduced by any one else.
 
jlowsho said:
different approaches aside, I do agree the abs will grow but not to a ridiculous extent. And I also don't think that growth of ANY muscle comes from low weight high reps. Your abs are muscle tissue no matter which way you slice it. If low weight high reps builds muscle then how come X-country runner's legs aren't tree trunks?
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Doing explosive crunches in sets to burnout with intervals is nothing like running a x-country. It is short bursts of power. Think sprinter. Are sprinters lacking in muscle size? If you do explosive knee tucks in sets with a short rest you will gain muscle size in your legs, no doubt about it. And why do chicks who run a lot and do aerobics have great calfs? Every muscle responds differently IMO.

Also the crunches do get slower as your squeezing them out at the end of a set so they do get a good squeeze as your trying to get the last few reps out. Thats what i mean when i say going to failure. Not stopping as soon as i cant get a lightening fast one out..
 
explosive crunches = pumping of legs, unless you roll on wheels there will be at least a fraction of rest.

Sprinters take long rests inbetween sets of heavy weight. Sprinters don't JUST sprint 100m for the 100m they also weight train. They also don't run 100m back to back to back to back. That's called the 400 and is a completely different training method.

That's great that you believe that, and in a way your right. Muscle fibres can adapt to certain methods of training, but the same fibres that are in your legs - like the sprinters - intensity coupled with lots of rests (or short duration) are the same fibres in your abs.

Like i said - I'm not guessing here. Use google on muscle fibres and stop reading Muscle & Fitness mag. for all your ab philosophy.
 
I am fully aware that sprinters do weight training. I also did weight training the same as anyone else here does it. I just never used weights with my abs. Why is it so hard to beleive that I had really good gains doing things a way that wasnt straight out of a science paper?

Muscle and Fitness Magazine?

There is no need for the cockiness either. No-body likes being patronized for trying to give somone some ideas.

You do whatever works for you and I will do what works for me. How does that sound? Now im going to go and read my Muscle and Fitness Magazine so leave me alone.
 
jaydee said:
You do whatever works for you and I will do what works for me. How does that sound?
Click to expand...

It sounds like what most of us have been saying for a long time.

People that say "you should do it like this, it's the best way period" in regards to ab training (or any other training for that matter) are pompous morons, which are in fact the worst kind of moron..

You do what works for you. Some people have higher concentrations of different types of fibers in specific muscles, and therefore respond to different stimuli. Always try new things.. muscles become complacent like people.
 
Fast twitch, slow twich...weighted, non-weighted exercises, high frequency, low frequency...

All good things.
 
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for sure Pi! Here's a good article with some research to back your incridibly awesome post bro!
 
I'm a huge fan of Layne Norton's. I'm not in an arguing mood today. I was yesterday obviously. I got into it with some other guy on another thread. Some times I argue just to argue and be a jerk..... may be why most people don't like me.... lol
 
Rectus abdominus (six pack) are predominatly fast twitch mucle fibres so should be trained as such, i.e 8-12 reps momentary muscle failiure within 90 secs with resistance, im guessing they'll need as much rest as other fast twitch muscle fibres.. 48-72 hours... couple of exercises that come to mind are swissball curls with dumbell and cable crunches..

just my 2cents..

currently Im not doing any ab work, slack .. but if i was to magically drop down to 8% BF bet they'd look ok, just not as prominant.
 
this is an amazing post. Thanks bro. This last contest prep I actually did them ONCE a week all the way to the show. I came in leaner than the one previous and they looked a little better actually. Very good insight based on real honest to god facts.
 
so wat is the general consensus as to how the lay person should train their abs? high reps low weight or low reps high weight? also how many exercises, sets, which exercises and how often? i just need a starting point; i dont want to start another argument.

i used to be around 5-6% bf when i ran xcountry and didnt have the six pack abs, only a little bit of abs up top close to my pecs, so bf isnt the issue, i just need more mass. thanks for the advice.
 
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