post cycle therapy without SERM

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stros5

stros5

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what are the best ways to restore natural testosterone production and hormone levels after a cycle besides using a SERM?

if SERMs are unavailable or even if they are what else is necessary in restoring hormone levels?:frustrate
 
whats the cycle? the above post is a good recommendation but I'll try to help. running too much of an AI dries me out. half the recommended dose usually helps. but it will take longer to raise test. throw in some activate, retain for cortisol, eat lots of food. and good luck. I usually run a serm and a low dose AI. try tapering off the cycle.
 
stros5 said:
what are the best ways to restore natural testosterone production and hormone levels after a cycle besides using a SERM?

if SERMs are unavailable or even if they are what else is necessary in restoring hormone levels?:frustrate
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You can order SERMS from research chemical sites, if you actually look, you will find them.

I always though that the SERM was the biggest part of PCT. :think:
 
oh god its the SERMs or die crowd!

Despite what the experts will tell you, it is possible to run a fully successful pct with use of a SERM. What are you running, well work one out.
I would like to see blood work taken about 2 weeks after your non SERM pct to ensure everything is back to normal. Heh, ask the standalone SERM crowd if they run blood after every cycle.. Test levels rarely return to normal..
 
I don't understand why so many people ask this question. If you are willing to put the vast time and effort into running a cycle with correct diet and training than why wouldn't you want to run a SERM to ensure that gains and health are maintained as much as possible in the long run? They are as easy and cheap to get as any other supplement on the market and should be the first item you buy when planning a cycle.
 
Menacer said:
I don't understand why so many people ask this question. If you are willing to put the vast time and effort into running a cycle with correct diet and training than why wouldn't you want to run a SERM to ensure that gains and health are maintained as much as possible in the long run? They are as easy and cheap to get as any other supplement on the market and should be the first item you buy when planning a cycle.
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Bravo! :clap2:
 
While bloodwork probably isnt good enough fact in this nonsensical arguement, Ill stick to my original statement. See sig.
 
I'm watching! lol (no posting on my part)
In the RED CORNAAHH we have ADHERENT MINDS GANG MENTALITY PARROTS!! in the BLUE CORNAAHH we have VOODOOOOOO!! lol
 
In the red corner we have well defined, smart cycling, non-gyno having, d*ck working PI...in the blue corner, that other guy.

:thumbsup:
 
PumpingIron said:
In the red corner we have well defined, smart cycling, non-gyno having, d*ck working PI...in the blue corner, that other guy.

:thumbsup:
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HAAHAH! that wasnt aimed at you dude, it was for the others trying to jump on a bandwagon that actually don't know what they're talking about ;)
 
PumpingIron said:
okay. i'm not quite the guy to get into an e-fight.

i think someone needs to grow up.

i'm outta this thread.
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Im glad, I didn't have the heart to go much further than that. But seriously, I would like to see HPTA bounce back with blood work on cycle, post cycle therapy and aft cycle to 'prove' what you're saying. More examples of such the better.
 
ok thank you everyone for your input. i did not mean to start an e-fight or whatever you are talking about PI, but i am new too all this and learning as much as i can before a run my first cycle and i thought i would start with learning about pct since it is necessary to retain gains. thank you all
 
stros5 said:
ok thank you everyone for your input. i did not mean to start an e-fight or whatever you are talking about PI, but i am new too all this and learning as much as i can before a run my first cycle and i thought i would start with learning about post cycle therapy since it is necessary to retain gains. thank you all
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there has been alot of threads about this latley so its not your fault that the arguements have come to your thread since you asked a similar question. this has been goin on for a while now, some seem to think you will be fine not using a serm and there are those of us that wouldn't cycle without a serm.

I suggest that if you are planning a cycle make sure you get a SERM, such as nolvadex (not novedex XT by gaspari) toremefine, or clomid. a serm will help restore balance to your hormones and also in the case of gyno flare up will be your best option to combat that.
 
sdmf45 said:
there has been alot of threads about this latley so its not your fault that the arguements have come to your thread since you asked a similar question. this has been goin on for a while now, some seem to think you will be fine not using a serm and there are those of us that wouldn't cycle without a serm.

I suggest that if you are planning a cycle make sure you get a SERM, such as nolvadex (not novedex XT by gaspari) toremefine, or clomid. a serm will help restore balance to your hormones and also in the case of gyno flare up will be your best option to combat that.
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EARLY gyno (just to be specific) and also, I recommend Toremifine... the only other SERM that I would EVER suggest besides that is Ralox....
 
RisingAgainst said:
HAAHAH! that wasnt aimed at you dude, it was for the others trying to jump on a bandwagon that actually don't know what they're talking about ;)
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So anybody who thinks that SERM's are the place to start when planning a cycle is on PI's bandwagon and does not know what their talking about? I have no idea how you gained so much rep on this forum but it goes to show me that it's not as difficult as it used to be or should be. RA, I am bigger than you, stronger than you and healthier than you are. I have more experience and know more about the subject than you will ever know. I just don't go running my mouth every chance I get to embellish my post count. You like to spew forth your opinions like they are facts and I have never once seen anyone even remotely worth listening to take your side. You want to say I'm on the bandwagon and don't know what I am talking about? Lets have this discussion just you and I and well see if you can back up your empty claims.
 
Menacer said:
So anybody who thinks that SERM's are the place to start when planning a cycle is on PI's bandwagon and does not know what their talking about? I have no idea how you gained so much rep on this forum but it goes to show me that it's not as difficult as it used to be or should be. RA, I am bigger than you, stronger than you and healthier than you are. I have more experience and know more about the subject than you will ever know. I just don't go running my mouth every chance I get to embellish my post count. You like to spew forth your opinions like they are facts and I have never once seen anyone even remotely worth listening to take your side. You want to say I'm on the bandwagon and don't know what I am talking about? Lets have this discussion just you and I and well see if you can back up your empty claims.
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Ahem, please use the search function, look up the one where PI and I argued this out for 5 days, read it, you will know my stance and your own reitterated. Oooo you're bigger faster stronger, well my **** is long and my back is strong, and you're girls'a callin. ;)
 
V00D00 said:
Im glad, I didn't have the heart to go much further than that. But seriously, I would like to see HPTA bounce back with blood work on cycle, post cycle therapy and aft cycle to 'prove' what you're saying. More examples of such the better.
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If that's what you're looking for, harassing people in this thread is not the best means of going about that.

Start a thread in the Post Cycle Therapy Forum, as well as in the anabolic steroids forum (since both forums tend to get flooded really quickly), asking for bloodwork results from various SERM usages after anabolic steroids cycles.

I've already put up a thread on the Alinboard and ProfessionalMuscle for ya, requesting this very thing.
 
RisingAgainst said:
Ahem, please use the search function, look up the one where PI and I argued this out for 5 days, read it, you will know my stance and your own reitterated. Oooo you're bigger faster stronger, well my **** is long and my back is strong, and you're girls'a callin. ;)
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Well since my girl is your mother and my son is your half brother you and VOODOO are much better off f***ing each other! ... Ohhhhhhh !! Alright I'm through.
 
Ok RA and Voodooo have had great success running retarded oral stack:fool2: j/k minus SERM's in post cycle therapy. PI, Menacar and SDMF have had great success with running SERM's for PCT.

But does anyone have bloodwork to prove which is better? Why can't u guys have a great detailed debate about this instead of getting defensive when someone doesn't run a SERM or when someone says u have too?

Carry on.
 
UNCfan1 said:
Ok RA and Voodooo have had great success running retarded oral stack:fool2: j/k minus SERM's in post cycle therapy. PI, Menacar and SDMF have had great success with running SERM's for post cycle therapy.

But does anyone have bloodwork to prove which is better? Why can't u guys have a great detailed debate about this instead of getting defensive when someone doesn't run a SERM or when someone says u have too?

Carry on.
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You bring up a good point. The attitudes everybody has coming into these discussions seem to be geared towards creating controversy and flared tempers than actually getting something accomplished.
 
Oh, and I have more rep than anyone else in this thread, so everything I say is right :)

Neil Armstrong never landed on the Moon.

Cindy Crawford is an Otter.

George W. Bush was created in a Soviet Russian Laboratory in hopes that the cold war would still be going on today, and they could win.
 
UNCfan1 said:
Ok RA and Voodooo have had great success running retarded oral stack:fool2: j/k minus SERM's in post cycle therapy. PI, Menacar and SDMF have had great success with running SERM's for post cycle therapy.

But does anyone have bloodwork to prove which is better? Why can't u guys have a great detailed debate about this instead of getting defensive when someone doesn't run a SERM or when someone says u have too?

Carry on.
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I agree brother. Forgive my above childish post. My thing is that when people come on here asking specific questions about whether or not they need a SERM in their pct I feel strongly that they should use one. If it is a much milder cycle than run a lower dose of the SERM in your pct but don't just look for ways to justify not having to obtain one when it is not very difficult to do at all. My first cycle ever I did not run a SERM in my pct and based on my own experiences since than I feel they are extremely beneficial.
 
thesinner said:
Oh, and I have more rep than anyone else in this thread, so everything I say is right :)

Neil Armstrong never landed on the Moon.

Cindy Crawford is an Otter.

George W. Bush was created in a Soviet Russian Laboratory in hopes that the cold war would still be going on today, and they could win.
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:toofunny: :toofunny:
 
Menacer said:
I agree brother. Forgive my above childish post. My thing is that when people come on here asking specific questions about whether or not they need a SERM in their post cycle therapy I feel strongly that they should use one. If it is a much milder cycle than run a lower dose of the SERM in your post cycle therapy but don't just look for ways to justify not having to obtain one when it is not very difficult to do at all. My first cycle ever I did not run a SERM in my post cycle therapy and based on my own experiences since than I feel they are extremely beneficial.
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I hope this discussion turns around. I have alot of learning when it comes to SERM's. I haven't used one in the past. Reason being with Halodrol/O-E Hemadrol/Prop I didn't have any shutdown and I wasn't worried about gyno. I had bloodwork done and everything was fine but when I do a stronger cycle after this pulse cycle I will be using one. Hopefully my Superdrol/Test-E cycle will come together.
 
UNCfan1 said:
I hope this discussion turns around. I have alot of learning when it comes to SERM's. I haven't used one in the past. Reason being with Halodrol/O-E Hemadrol/Prop I didn't have any shutdown and I wasn't worried about gyno. I had bloodwork done and everything was fine but when I do a stronger cycle after this pulse cycle I will be using one. Hopefully my Superdrol/Test-E cycle will come together.
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Be Careful with superdrol, stuff gives me a nasty prolactin rebound. I highly recommend having an ass-load of vitamin B6 on hand, just in case of flare-up.
 
RisingAgainst said:
I'm watching! lol (no posting on my part)
In the RED CORNAAHH we have ADHERENT MINDS GANG MENTALITY PARROTS!! in the BLUE CORNAAHH we have VOODOOOOOO!! lol
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for what it's worth, criticizing the board members for using similar PCT protocols defeats a big part of the purpose of the board. the forum allows people to share user feedback for what has been effective for different members in some areas that are based largely around speculation/anecdotal feedback. there are some extremely experienced/intelligent people here, but no one knows it all. it may very well be possible for someone to run a cycle of certain compounds and recover properly without the use of any SERMs. however, i don't see why you would fault people for using the method that has more feedback, or why you would post here so often if you consider everyone so "adherent" and "parrot like"
 
My first cycle, when I was 18ish, was with Omnadren ... I think I ran it 8-10 weeks at approx 250mg E5D... I didn't use a PCT protocol.

I remember a difficult recovery. I lost quite a bit of size and my sex life suffered from lack of libido/performance. Remeber 18? That sh1t isn't right.

Suffice to say you don't NEED a serm to recover, but you can and SHOULD use one if you want to restore HPTA function quickly.

I'm sure everyone wants to recover quickly... so use tried and true PCT methodology with a SERM. I don't understand why one wouldn't.

Get some Toremifene. ;)

Voodoo, PI is a part of the eastern faction of Snuggle Club. If you are laughing at him, it is because he is trying to make you happy.
 
Ubiquitous said:
My first cycle, when I was 18ish, was with Omnadren ... I think I ran it 8-10 weeks at approx 250mg E5D... I didn't use a post cycle therapy protocol.

I remember a difficult recovery. I lost quite a bit of size and my sex life suffered from lack of libido/performance. Remeber 18? That sh1t isn't right.

Suffice to say you don't NEED a serm to recover, but you can and SHOULD use one if you want to restore HPTA function quickly.
I'm sure everyone wants to recover quickly... so use tried and true PCT methodology with a SERM. I don't understand why one wouldn't.

Get some Toremifene. ;)

Voodoo, PI is a part of the eastern faction of Snuggle Club. If you are laughing at him, it is because he is trying to make you happy.
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Nicely put. (see bolded section of quote)


BTW, what is the snuggle club?
 
what would be a reasonable price for toremifene? because i have seen sales from very expensive to very cheap
 
^^^Way to hijack the thread son^^^

As a raw powder, it typically runs $2-$3 per gram. Solutions or suspensions are gonna cost about $2-$3 per mL.
 
aww sinner since when did you get mean?

originally i wanted to help the guy out but realized i was just going to get yelled at for suggesting anything other than the norm.
 
V00D00 said:
aww sinner since when did you get mean?

originally i wanted to help the guy out but realized i was just going to get yelled at for suggesting anything other than the norm.
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When was I mean? I didn't mean to come off as mean for saying "way to hijack the thread, son". It was meant in jest, since majority of the threads I post in get hijacked (often with obscure homosexuality/beastiality topics).

What help were you gonna offer? (I won't flame, I promise :) )
 
Like stated up above, and quoted from my doctor "You don't need a [serm], your body will naturally recover, it will just take longer, for the most part. If you run cycle after cycle your body could take longer and longer to recover and lead to a mess of problems" I paraphrased that, I can't remember word for word as it was a year ago.

I, personally, didn't use a serm when I did my first superdrol cycle but I had nolva on hand. I had bloodwork done the final week and everything was in the clear so I used 6oxo to boost me a bit.

(although I'm using torem as my pct for my upcoming sd cycle)

That being said, I think that having a serm is always a good idea incase the worst (gyno) happens and it helps you recover a hell of a lot faster and keep your gains.
 
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