Natural PCT for Oral?

TOYFORDOLET

TOYFORDOLET

Member
Are there any milder orals in which a natural PCT route could be used? Something other than Nolva or Clomid? Has anyone tried this, if so, what were your results? It seems probable with the new AIs and other products out, but it seems that most just stick with nolva because it is tried and proven. I am new to the steroid game so any info would be great.
 
okay, maybe not "bigger and better" but ATD still suppresses estrogen, just in different ways than do SERMs. i am not so sure why everyone is so dead set on prescription drugs when there are safer and legal alternatives out there to do accomplish the same thing. Especially if we are talking about something such as epistane or havoc. Now, M1T, thats another story.
 
suppressing estrogen...i agree

what about binding breast tissue that might be forming? and preventing gyno?....nope
 
I guess some people have forgotten that there is a huge difference between a SERM and an AI. This thread is actual an oxymoron: looking for a natural remedy to something caused by a synthetic hormone:hammer: .
 
PumpingIron said:
suppressing estrogen...i agree

what about binding breast tissue that might be forming? and preventing gyno?....nope
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lets be honest here....noone is going to get gyno from havoc, epistane, or any mild oral like that.....and thats what his question was referring to. and yes, it is always a good idea to have a SERM on hand JUST in case something wild and crazy MIGHT happen. if you have ran cycles before, and had no gyno issues though, its probably safe to say you wont have any in the future with such a mild ph.
 
LeanBulk said:
lets be honest here....noone is going to get gyno from havoc, epistane, or any mild oral like that.....and thats what his question was referring to. and yes, it is always a good idea to have a SERM on hand JUST in case something wild and crazy MIGHT happen. if you have ran cycles before, and had no gyno issues though, its probably safe to say you wont have any in the future with such a mild ph.
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Epistane is not a PH...
 
Rodja said:
I guess some people have forgotten that there is a huge difference between a SERM and an AI. This thread is actual an oxymoron: looking for a natural remedy to something caused by a synthetic hormone:hammer: .
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haha this is true....very very true.

Rodja said:
Epistane is not a PH...
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okay, whatever you would like to call it. pct with a SERM is still recommended for some reason......i dont get too caught up into all the technical names that the supplement industry tries to call their products. its hormonal, it requires pct, i call it a prohormone. maybe thats not the "technical" term coined by IBE, but essentially thats what it is
 
Has anyone had any experience with any alternative methods of pct? I know the traditional works and is recomended, however, I am simply curious (and a little ignorant, sorry). So Atd works well, how does it compare to trione (6-oxo) or 6-bromodione?
 
LeanBulk said:
haha this is true....very very true.



okay, whatever you would like to call it. post cycle therapy with a SERM is still recommended for some reason......i dont get too caught up into all the technical names that the supplement industry tries to call their products. its hormonal, it requires post cycle therapy, i call it a prohormone. maybe thats not the "technical" term coined by IBE, but essentially thats what it is
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The "technical" term is "steroid".
 
Ok, so who's saying ATD is better than a SERM? On what grounds is this being made? What's the logic in usng something that reduces the enzymes which cause EXCESS testosterone to convert to estrogen, when your testosterone levels are damn near nothing and estrogen levels are through the roof?


Also, why are we trying to deviate from what works? Why is it that you're totally fine with putting synthetic derivatives of testosterone into your body, but not cool about using a synthetic SERM?

As mentioned above, the logic in here seems a little contradicting.
 
thesinner said:
Seriously, it's like that nice long post I made the other week was a waste. :frustrate:
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i have put the link to that thread you did in a few of these and nothing. they still ask the same questions. they are waiting for someone to come in and say o ya thats a great idea to do atd only. :rant: :rant: :rant:
 
TOYFORDOLET said:
Are there any milder orals in which a natural post cycle therapy route could be used? Something other than Nolva or Clomid? Has anyone tried this, if so, what were your results? It seems probable with the new AIs and other products out, but it seems that most just stick with nolva because it is tried and proven. I am new to the steroid game so any info would be great.
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while this is going to seem like a shameless ax plug, hyperdrolX2 is a great product in terms of non perscription post cycle therapy. i typically run
hyperdrolx2 / test booster / paravol / SAMe / Hawthorne

mild changes depending on severity of shutdown or cycle length / dosages, but it works great for me and so far for everyone else Ive recommended try it. Obviously I would like to know what youre looking into cycling before I suggested a route to take.
 
Basically I think what it comes down to is that some people (newbies) find certain orals are easy to find, but sourcing research chemicals is a bit trickier, and wish that they could get away with purchasing a supplement as opposed to an actual SERM. Either that, or it's because the cost of a SERM is higher than an AI, but either way, they don't call SERM's 'tried and true' for nothing, stick with what works for crying out loud, this is your body we're talking about here :bb2:
 
sdmf45 said:
i have put the link to that thread you did in a few of these and nothing. they still ask the same questions. they are waiting for someone to come in and say o ya thats a great idea to do atd only. :rant: :rant: :rant:
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Sometimes people don't want to hear what they should do, they want to hear that they're right. Unfortunately, you've gotta be right if you're hoping to hear the latter.



V00D00 said:
while this is going to seem like a shameless ax plug, hyperdrolX2 is a great product in terms of non perscription post cycle therapy. i typically run
hyperdrolx2 / test booster / paravol / SAMe / Hawthorne

mild changes depending on severity of shutdown or cycle length / dosages, but it works great for me and so far for everyone else Ive recommended try it. Obviously I would like to know what youre looking into cycling before I suggested a route to take.
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You bring up a very good point, which I tend to shy away from delving into; however, if the steroid is somewhat mild (and taken with low to moderate dosages) and the cycle is very short (max 3 weeks) it is very possible to run without the use of bread'n'butter PCT. These tend not to provide as much gains due to the fact that (1) the steroid being used isn't very strong (2) the cycle is not being run for very long.

I think a good protocol for such a cycle might look like this:
3 weeks of a mild and moderately dosed designer/ph
6 weeks of hyperdrol X2 / Mass FX or a variation of ALRI's evolution stack
3 weeks clean
and then you can start up another cycle :)
 
thesinner said:
Sometimes people don't want to hear what they should do, they want to hear that they're right. Unfortunately, you've gotta be right if you're hoping to hear the latter.




You bring up a very good point, which I tend to shy away from delving into; however, if the steroid is somewhat mild (and taken with low to moderate dosages) and the cycle is very short (max 3 weeks) it is very possible to run without the use of bread'n'butter post cycle therapy. These tend not to provide as much gains due to the fact that (1) the steroid being used isn't very strong (2) the cycle is not being run for very long.

I think a good protocol for such a cycle might look like this:
3 weeks of a mild and moderately dosed designer/ph
6 weeks of hyperdrol X2 / Mass FX or a variation of ALRI's evolution stack
3 weeks clean
and then you can start up another cycle :)
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gotta be careful with mass fx, it doesnt work nearly as well as some other test boosters. i actually had low test after using it as pct for a superdrol/trenadrol/bold cycle. after test drive - totally back to normal. wont always produce these effects, however, I wont touch the stuff again, nothing worse than running through pct and still running low test.. feels like you wasted a month.
 
thesinner said:
You bring up a very good point, which I tend to shy away from delving into; however, if the steroid is somewhat mild (and taken with low to moderate dosages) and the cycle is very short (max 3 weeks) it is very possible to run without the use of bread'n'butter post cycle therapy. These tend not to provide as much gains due to the fact that (1) the steroid being used isn't very strong (2) the cycle is not being run for very long.

I think a good protocol for such a cycle might look like this:
3 weeks of a mild and moderately dosed designer/ph
6 weeks of hyperdrol X2 / Mass FX or a variation of ALRI's evolution stack
3 weeks clean
and then you can start up another cycle :)
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what are these "mild" ph's that your talking about? and also, what dosages would you recommend for them?
 
It's hard to be specific, since some people will react differently than others. I guess the only things Ican say for certain are what are NOT mild, but I'm pretty sure you can guess what those are.
 
thesinner said:
It's hard to be specific, since some people will react differently than others. I guess the only things Ican say for certain are what are NOT mild, but I'm pretty sure you can guess what those are.
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how would you classify PP? i would say its one of the milder ph's that arent the new era such as havoc, epistane, 3ad, etc
 
LeanBulk said:
how would you classify PP? i would say its one of the milder ph's that arent the new era such as havoc, epistane, 3ad, etc
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I really don't want to start naming names because I don't want someone to see what I've said, and then say to themselves, "well sinner says it's ok" run a heavy 'blitz cycle', and come back 4 weeks later saying how terrible everything has been. The whole theory behind how this works is similar to Dr. D's "Pulse Method", which many people are skeptical about, in that you are not running the compound long enough or strong enough to supress your test levels to the point where a SERM is necessary. Unfortunately, this will also buffer your gains, since you've taken so little that it has barely suppressed you.

Pheraplex is one that I've done this with (dosing 10-20mg) in the past. I don't think I'm going to run short cycles ever again, simply because I don't really think 20-day cycles put out enough benefits for the possible risks they entail. You should ALWAYS have a SERM on hand before starting any cycle, regardless of whether or not you had originally planned to use it.
 
thesinner said:
I really don't want to start naming names because I don't want someone to see what I've said, and then say to themselves, "well sinner says it's ok" run a heavy 'blitz cycle', and come back 4 weeks later saying how terrible everything has been. The whole theory behind how this works is similar to Dr. D's "Pulse Method", which many people are skeptical about, in that you are not running the compound long enough or strong enough to supress your test levels to the point where a SERM is necessary. Unfortunately, this will also buffer your gains, since you've taken so little that it has barely suppressed you.

Pheraplex is one that I've done this with (dosing 10-20mg) in the past. I don't think I'm going to run short cycles ever again, simply because I don't really think 20-day cycles put out enough benefits for the possible risks they entail. You should ALWAYS have a SERM on hand before starting any cycle, regardless of whether or not you had originally planned to use it.
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ah see Im resilient, I run cycles of 90-120mg of methoxy tren with 700mg bold and 30mg superdrol (tren-sd bridge 7 week) and then expect AIs to work. No problems yet. Of course I wouldnt be surprized if the next guy tried it and got so shutdown he couldnt get out of bed.
 
V00D00 said:
while this is going to seem like a shameless ax plug, hyperdrolX2 is a great product in terms of non perscription post cycle therapy. i typically run
hyperdrolx2 / test booster / paravol / SAMe / Hawthorne

mild changes depending on severity of shutdown or cycle length / dosages, but it works great for me and so far for everyone else Ive recommended try it. Obviously I would like to know what youre looking into cycling before I suggested a route to take.
Click to expand...

What kind of cycles have you run with this type of pct? Did you keep your gains?
 
You should run Jumanji Extract of Wai ki ki (J.E.W.) for your PCT.

The average gain is one cup size - I went from a 38A to a 42B!!!
 
V00D00 said:
ah see Im resilient, I run cycles of 90-120mg of methoxy tren with 700mg bold and 30mg superdrol (tren-superdrol bridge 7 week) and then expect AIs to work. No problems yet. Of course I wouldnt be surprized if the next guy tried it and got so shutdown he couldnt get out of bed.
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You see, this all goes by what we define "problems" as. Without bloodwork (and I unfortunately don't have any test results to post either; hence, I was really weary to even bring this idea up) it's really hard to say that using an AI is cutting the mustard just because you don't have *****-tits and your shooter still shoots.
 
TOYFORDOLET said:
What kind of cycles have you run with this type of post cycle therapy? Did you keep your gains?
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cycles
wks 1-4
bold 600mg
wks 5-8
m14add 60mg
bold 600mg - 1000mg

however for this cycle i didnt use hyperdrol i used formadol and hypertest to come back. worked great.


now for cycles which have seen that use of pct:
trenadrol/sd bridge with bold as a backer
wks 1-3
trenadrol 90mg
bold 600mg
wks 4-7
sd 30mg
bold 600mg

tren / methyl bold / halo
wks 1-2
trenadrol 90mg
wks 3-7
trenadrol 120mg
methyl bold 140mg
halo 80mg

to answer questions of keeping gains, well im gaining at the rate of slightly over 50lbs a year I lose about 2-4lbs in pct. gained 20 the first cycle, 12 this current one (so far)

started 172, now 245. so id say its working alright ;)
 
thesinner said:
You see, this all goes by what we define "problems" as. Without bloodwork (and I unfortunately don't have any test results to post either; hence, I was really weary to even bring this idea up) it's really hard to say that using an AI is cutting the mustard just because you don't have *****-tits and your shooter still shoots.
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which is why after all my nuts cycles, i have full bloodwork done after pct ends. if anything needs to be fixed, just start working on that problem and stay off the phs till it returns to normal.
i know i know, but voodoo, thats expensive! i dont care, i would rather know how i fared after a long bout with phs..
 
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