11kt vs Epiandro - What would you run alongside Retatrutide to prevent muscle loss?

[AwakeningAlpha]

Hi Gents,

I am experimenting with microdosing reta over the next few months to aid in my summer cut. Starting at 215 around 13% bf so the cut will not be too aggressive. 400 cal deficit adding 100 cal every week or two starting at 3,000. Train 2-3hrs 5 days a week. 3 1hr sessions of fasted cardio (incline walking or hiking). And one day at the range (lower intensity) or playing airsoft / paintball (high intensity).

Though I am not on TRT and typically stick to peptides only for fear of crashing healthy natural T levels, I am playing with the idea of running 8 weeks of Epiandro or 11kt to preserve muscle. I have run 8 weeks of epi once before and found virtually no sides or suppression but like the idea of 11kt not risking hair loss as much.

I will also be stacking a GH secretagogue CJC or Tesamorelin, or good ol GH throughout. As well as natural stuff like PAXT, BASIS, PEPTIPLEX, Inj L-Carnitine and L-Glutamine. I have also heard mention of cardarine being a good addition to reta as it allegedly makes your body prefer fat loss over catabolism.


Is it worth adding either Epiandro or 11KT?

Which of the two would be better in this scenario?

If the reta would be used for 3 months, when would you implement the cycle? Beginning or end?



Appreciate anyones experience or advice!

 

[Tunaking14]

I was thinking about something similar. Still trying to make a plan for what I want to do exactly.

 

[Smont]

At a 400 cal deficit I wouldn't be too worried about muscle loss. At somewhere along the was you hit sub 10% and/or calories dip below 1800-2000 then I'd start worrying about muscle loss.

With that said, everything you listed should be fine, I know 11kt can become suppressive after a certain dose, idk what that dose is.

Right at this moment I have 2 ppl in SLU 915 and Reta together. Too soon to make any claims but the goal is to keep the reta dose low, not crush appitate.

Pay attention to your blood sugar too. Especially if on low carbs and a glp1

 

[Smont]

And don't look in my log, I'm not cooking tons of delicious food. Dont wanna spoil the diet

 

[HTGduck]

150mg of transdermal 11KT would do you right. I can't speak for epiandro because I've still never tried it but a lot of people love it.

 

[AwakeningAlpha]

150mg of transdermal 11KT would do you right. I can't speak for epiandro because I've still never tried it but a lot of people love it.

Thanks I'll try that. 8 weeks you think?

At a 400 cal deficit I wouldn't be too worried about muscle loss. At somewhere along the was you hit sub 10% and/or calories dip below 1800-2000 then I'd start worrying about muscle loss.

With that said, everything you listed should be fine, I know 11kt can become suppressive after a certain dose, idk what that dose is.

Right at this moment I have 2 ppl in SLU 915 and Reta together. Too soon to make any claims but the goal is to keep the reta dose low, not crush appitate.

Pay attention to your blood sugar too. Especially if on low carbs and a glp1

Good input! I'll save the 11-kt / epi for when I'm leaner or cals dip too far into deficit due to not being able to eat. I'm starting super low so appetite hasn't been crushed besides the first few days. Digestive slow down is the main thing stopping me from eating. I'm incorporating a digestive enzyme and fiber to help.

Do you think SLU over cardarine?

I was thinking about something similar. Still trying to make a plan for what I want to do exactly.

I'll let you know how it goes.

 

[Smont]

Thanks I'll try that. 8 weeks you think?

Good input! I'll save the 11-kt / epi for when I'm leaner or cals dip too far into deficit due to not being able to eat. I'm starting super low so appetite hasn't been crushed besides the first few days. Digestive slow down is the main thing stopping me from eating. I'm incorporating a digestive enzyme and fiber to help.

Do you think SLU over cardarine?

I'll let you know how it goes.

I would pick SLU over carderine. You could use them together too. But carderine has actually a pretty strong GDA type effect and it lowers blood sugar. I typically only use carderine alongside harsh orals so short periods like 3-4 weeks at a time. And I stop metformin when I'm using carderine

 

[HTGduck]

Thanks I'll try that. 8 weeks you think?

Good input! I'll save the 11-kt / epi for when I'm leaner or cals dip too far into deficit due to not being able to eat. I'm starting super low so appetite hasn't been crushed besides the first few days. Digestive slow down is the main thing stopping me from eating. I'm incorporating a digestive enzyme and fiber to help.

Do you think SLU over cardarine?

I'll let you know how it goes.

I did 6 weeks and I was very happy with my results.

 

[AwakeningAlpha]

I would pick SLU over carderine. You could use them together too. But carderine has actually a pretty strong GDA type effect and it lowers blood sugar. I typically only use carderine alongside harsh orals so short periods like 3-4 weeks at a time. And I stop metformin when I'm using carderine

Good call thank you!

 

[josh_fitcheck]

That recomp speed on reta is honestly wild—like week 3-4 I watched my delts pop through a shirt I'd written off as too small. For your situation, I'd lean 11kt over epiandro if hair is even on your radar; the androgenic profile is just cleaner for that.

Did epi twice myself and yeah, basically zero suppression feel, but the shedding in the shower got real obvious around week 5. 11kt gave me similar dryness and strength retention without the same scalp drama. Neither's gonna build tissue in an real deficit, but both blunt cortisol enough to look harder while the fat melts.

With your cardio load and that caloric staircase, I'd actually worry more about recovery than catabolism. Reta already spares muscle stupid well—way better than sema or tirze ever did for me. The GH secretagogue stack will cover the rest. If you're dead set on adding something, 11kt at a modest dose makes more sense than epi for a 8-week run, especially natty T being your priority.

 

[lanky]

honestly oral b-androstenetriol would be a good cost effective option, basicly 40 bucks for a month supply from core nutritionals product is called 5-AT. not a product that is faked either

 

[kjscatch]

I will be running EpiAndro with my low dose of of Reta once I can get past my Tennis Elbow. Haven’t been able to touch a weight in 3 weeks. And before that, just a couple of times the previous 3 weeks. Wasting my summer weightlifting away! Just slowly losing still, 1-2lbs a week with cardio 4 days, keeping up with my 10-15g of creatine. Feels like I am wasting Reta’s potential but not much I can do at the moment. Started BPC and TB a week ago but no relief so far. Hoping the magic happens soon.

 

[AwakeningAlpha]

I will be running EpiAndro with my low dose of of Reta once I can get past my Tennis Elbow. Haven’t been able to touch a weight in 3 weeks. And before that, just a couple of times the previous 3 weeks. Wasting my summer weightlifting away! Just slowly losing still, 1-2lbs a week with cardio 4 days, keeping up with my 10-15g of creatine. Feels like I am wasting Reta’s potential but not much I can do at the moment. Started BPC and TB a week ago but no relief so far. Hoping the magic happens soon.

I am happy to say I have had a successful run of low dose Reta WITHOUT Epi or 11kt or any other anabolics. I'm almost 20lbs down with only 2lbs muscle lost according to the body scan. I started around .25mg and have added .25 or .5 every other week. I'm around 2.5 now with a few weeks left.

Stacked GH or secretagogues throughout. 4 weeks MOTS C. 4 weeks IGF. inj L-Carnitine . clear protein to help hit 225g daily. Digestive enzymes. peptibolic, alpha one, PAXT and Iconogenin as needed.

Incredible recomp product. Gastric slowing sucks though. If you train hard and keep protein high I don't think you need to worry about much muscle loss.

Last few weeks I'm adding SLU and 5 amino and then tesofinsine if my hunger goes crazy after cessation.