TRT. Low estrogen? Poor aromatiser?

[bell1986]

Has anyone on here ran testosterone and suffer with endless low estradiol?

I'm currently running 150mg a week of test. I jab 50mg Mon/Wed/Fri. I was at 120mg for most of the year. My testosterone in my last test was 1300. My e2 is at 18. This ratio is way off and I have all the low estrogen symptoms. Low libido. Dry skin. Constantly peeing. I recently got a nerve impingement injury and I suspect the low estradiol was part of the issue. My joints are sore and always cracking.

I don't take any aromatase inhibitors. I don't take zinc/dim etc either.

Just seems like my body can't convert the testosterone into estrogen.

I tried adding in HCG at 175iu on test jab days. All it done was spike my testosterone and my estrogen just went up a little.

I added in DHEA 25mg a day. Still barely changed.

Can your body just refuse to aromatise? I am lean so I'm sure that isn't helping either. I'm not overly lean though I reckon 12% body fat?

Is my only option oral estradiol? I do have 1mg oral estradiol hemihydrate at home.

Anyone had this and found a fix? Be nice just to feel better overall. Also to go a day without peeing 40 times

Any advice?

 

[Smont]

Here's something I don't think a lot of people know,


Is your free testosterone in range, or low. I feel like we had this conversation but I could be mixing up threads.

Couple things that I can suggest that take little to no extra effort are 1, take your entire injection on the same day once per week this will give you a higher spike in testosterone and cause more aromatase activity. Also, 2. even tho free and bound test can aromatize to estrogen, only free testosterone can actually use the aromatase enzyme, bound testosterone has to be freed up before it can convert. So by getting more free testosterone you can get more conversion.

When you have low levels of free testosterone you typically will also have low estrogen, or you're more likely to at least.

Another option, low dose dbol, 5-10mg

Also your HCG dose was low, try 500 EOD for 2 weeks or so. You will get higher estrogen for sure. You'll probably feel a hell of a lot better a hell of a lot faster with more HCG or a small dose of dbol.

I would think once your estrogen is where you want it to be you could probably lower the dose of HCG back down a little bit to maybe 250 IU 2-3x week

 

[bell1986]

Here's something I don't think a lot of people know,


Is your free testosterone in range, or low. I feel like we had this conversation but I could be mixing up threads.

Couple things that I can suggest that take little to no extra effort are 1, take your entire injection on the same day once per week this will give you a higher spike in testosterone and cause more aromatase activity. Also, 2. even tho free and bound test can aromatize to estrogen, only free testosterone can actually use the aromatase enzyme, bound testosterone has to be freed up before it can convert. So by getting more free testosterone you can get more conversion.

When you have low levels of free testosterone you typically will also have low estrogen, or you're more likely to at least.

Another option, low dose dbol, 5-10mg

Also your HCG dose was low, try 500 EOD for 2 weeks or so. You will get higher estrogen for sure. You'll probably feel a hell of a lot better a hell of a lot faster with more HCG or a small dose of dbol.

I would think once your estrogen is where you want it to be you could probably lower the dose of HCG back down a little bit to maybe 250 IU 2-3x week

Hey Smont

My free testosterone is high. My shbg sits around 19-20 which is at the bottom end of the range (Range 18-54). This is freeing up testosterone.

Here is my last labs exact numbers.

Testosterone: 1413ng/dl
Shbg: 18.9
Estrogen: 18ng/l

This ratio is 78:1 testosterone to estrogen. It really should be around 20:1/30:1

My testosterone is high because I bumped my dose from 120mg to 150mg. At 120mg my estrogen sits around 12-13

I could give the dbol a go. I have some at home. I have HCG also. I could do one experiment and wait a couple weeks and run bloodwork and note the changes. If this works then ideal but if it doesn't I can do the other experiment and run bloodwork. I've ran over 20 bloodworks this year alone trying to get my body to sort itself out. Paid a fair amount of money but I wouldn't ever ignore or cheap out on health. As I have got older I have learned to respect my body more.

I had this issue after running aromasin a couple years back. I use to aromatise easily and sometimes overshoot. Ever since running that aromasin my body never recovered properly. I'm not sure if it's actually damaged the aromatase enzyme permanently?

Low estrogen sucks man. My body feels older than my actual age at times. Joints are always cracking and popping. Skin is dry. Libido is up and down. Bit of a nightmare tbh.

You ever had low estrogen issues yourself? It's one part of the TRT process that stresses me out.

Thanks

 

[Smont]

SOoooo.......... I'm fukin stumped dude. I gotta guess you just don't create much of the aromatase enzyme. There's something called the cyp191 gene (I may have mixed up a number or letter in there) but people who have that don't create much of the enzyme. It's only a very small group of people who have that issue.

Let's ignore that tho because it doesn't help us fix the problem.

In your situation I'd say we do not have the option to run more test since your already at 1400 total T (I bet you could run 600 mg a week with no AI which is awesome if you want to run some cycles lol)

So our options are to do things that are favorable for creating more estrogen, or add something that will cause more estrogen conversion. Which is kind of the things I had already mentioned.

If I was you, and in your position I would do one of the following. Reduce my testosterone frequency to 1x week and retest in a month, or add 25-50mg deca and test in a month, or add 5-10mg of dbol and test in a month or less, dbol should be the fastest route. And, 5mg dbol is used ass hormone replacement therapy in some parts of the world still and no it is not the best option but it is a option to potentially add to the equation here.

Oral DHEA is still a option but I think your going to need a decent amount 100mg or more.

And don't use eq or primo ever unless your on a ton of testosterone because both will lower e2 significantly for many people.

Sorry bud that's all I got.

We're kind of playing a guessing game but those are my best educated guesses

 

[bell1986]

Started on 5mg of dbol this morning. I've also moved my test doses from Mon/Wed/Fri to Tues/Fri. So 75mg each jab. Took 75mg yesterday and definitely notice a body temp increase. Been a long time since I jabbed more than 50mg in one go.

The dbol isn't sustainable but atleast I can experiment and see if I can maybe bump up my aromatase expression? Make my body produce more of the aromatase enzyme. 100% bro science but still worth a go. I will do bloods in a couple weeks and see what's going on. Even that 5mg of dbol though I can feel it. Just more of an upbeat feeling. It converts to methyl estradiol which they say is 5-6x stronger than normal estradiol. Even small amounts work very well. Haven't used dbol for so long tbh. It's a messy drug but definitely potent.

SOoooo.......... I'm fukin stumped dude. I gotta guess you just don't create much of the aromatase enzyme. There's something called the cyp191 gene (I may have mixed up a number or letter in there) but people who have that don't create much of the enzyme. It's only a very small group of people who have that issue.

Let's ignore that tho because it doesn't help us fix the problem.

In your situation I'd say we do not have the option to run more test since your already at 1400 total T (I bet you could run 600 mg a week with no AI which is awesome if you want to run some cycles lol)

So our options are to do things that are favorable for creating more estrogen, or add something that will cause more estrogen conversion. Which is kind of the things I had already mentioned.

If I was you, and in your position I would do one of the following. Reduce my testosterone frequency to 1x week and retest in a month, or add 25-50mg deca and test in a month, or add 5-10mg of dbol and test in a month or less, dbol should be the fastest route. And, 5mg dbol is used ass hormone replacement therapy in some parts of the world still and no it is not the best option but it is a option to potentially add to the equation here.

Oral DHEA is still a option but I think your going to need a decent amount 100mg or more.

And don't use eq or primo ever unless your on a ton of testosterone because both will lower e2 significantly for many people.

Sorry bud that's all I got.

We're kind of playing a guessing game but those are my best educated guesses

Hey bud

Thanks for all your input.

Yesterday and this morning I took 5mg of dbol when I woke up. I have 20mg tabs so I just split them up. I know dbol converts to methyl estradiol that they say is 5-6x as strong as normal estradiol. I hope this can improve just how I feel overall. I think I've had low estrogen for so long that I've just accepted the lower mood and creaky joints and dry skin. The part I'm spooked about is the overall damage the low estrogen is creating over time. I recently got an injury (C7 nerve impingement). I'm suspecting the low estrogen may have contributed. It's a guess but makes sense.

One thing about the dbol I've noticed is the nausea it produces. Definitely felt more sicky feeling today. It only lasts a few hours and fades. I feel my mood has perked up a little though. More chatty and upbeat. Dbol has this sort of effect on it's own tbh. Libido is up also so something is changing.

I can run this for a period and just note how I feel. I can't run this indefinitely. Apart from being liver toxic it will also destroy my lipids. Theirs only so much omega 3's I can swallow lol. I am also using DHEA daily.

I know people talk about ratios. Testosterone/Estrogen 20:1/30:1 ratio. Mines is obviously well off. If your testosterone is at say 2000 and estrogen is at 35-40. I'm assuming your still producing enough estrogen to fully function in the body? The ratio must just be when your natural? Kinda confusing. It's maybe the reason why I feel better on higher doses? Bringing my estrogen into a more functional range?

I will keep this updated on how it goes. I'm certain it's doing a positive though. I have noticed pros and cons today so will see how it goes.

Thanks mate.

 

[Smont]

Started on 5mg of dbol this morning. I've also moved my test doses from Mon/Wed/Fri to Tues/Fri. So 75mg each jab. Took 75mg yesterday and definitely notice a body temp increase. Been a long time since I jabbed more than 50mg in one go.

The dbol isn't sustainable but atleast I can experiment and see if I can maybe bump up my aromatase expression? Make my body produce more of the aromatase enzyme. 100% bro science but still worth a go. I will do bloods in a couple weeks and see what's going on. Even that 5mg of dbol though I can feel it. Just more of an upbeat feeling. It converts to methyl estradiol which they say is 5-6x stronger than normal estradiol. Even small amounts work very well. Haven't used dbol for so long tbh. It's a messy drug but definitely potent.


Hey bud

Thanks for all your input.

Yesterday and this morning I took 5mg of dbol when I woke up. I have 20mg tabs so I just split them up. I know dbol converts to methyl estradiol that they say is 5-6x as strong as normal estradiol. I hope this can improve just how I feel overall. I think I've had low estrogen for so long that I've just accepted the lower mood and creaky joints and dry skin. The part I'm spooked about is the overall damage the low estrogen is creating over time. I recently got an injury (C7 nerve impingement). I'm suspecting the low estrogen may have contributed. It's a guess but makes sense.

One thing about the dbol I've noticed is the nausea it produces. Definitely felt more sicky feeling today. It only lasts a few hours and fades. I feel my mood has perked up a little though. More chatty and upbeat. Dbol has this sort of effect on it's own tbh. Libido is up also so something is changing.

I can run this for a period and just note how I feel. I can't run this indefinitely. Apart from being liver toxic it will also destroy my lipids. Theirs only so much omega 3's I can swallow lol. I am also using DHEA daily.

I know people talk about ratios. Testosterone/Estrogen 20:1/30:1 ratio. Mines is obviously well off. If your testosterone is at say 2000 and estrogen is at 35-40. I'm assuming your still producing enough estrogen to fully function in the body? The ratio must just be when your natural? Kinda confusing. It's maybe the reason why I feel better on higher doses? Bringing my estrogen into a more functional range?

I will keep this updated on how it goes. I'm certain it's doing a positive though. I have noticed pros and cons today so will see how it goes.

Thanks mate.

On cycles there's different approaches. Some ppl like to keep estrogen in range no matter what else there on. Test could be 5000 and they keep e2 in the normal reference range. Some guys go nuts and let there estrogen skyrocket on high test and HGH so they can try to get more out of the growth hormone because for some reason you get way higher igf-1 levels when you're estrogens high on HGH. It's something like when estrogens high it changes how the liver makes igf-1 and it increases significantly more then if you're estrogen had been in range or just lower in general. Don't crucify me I might have butchered how that works lol. I don't know a ton about those types of processes. HGH is tricky.

I'm a little bit in-between. When I go on higher doses of testosterone, as my test levels go up I start to feel better on higher amounts of estrogen. I'll be on like 400 mg of testosterone and my estrogen will be a hundred and I'll feel awesome, I don't worry about keeping it at a certain ratio I just try not to let it get too far out of control and play it by the side effects.

If my sex drive is good and I'm not getting pimples or puffy nipples and Gino I'm usually good to go

 

[BBiceps]

@Smont have been coming with some great recommendations as always.

Great that you feel better on the Dbol, at 5mg ed you probably can run it longer than you think but it might not be sustainable for ever. I would try low dose Deca, that’s something that could be added for longer periods of time, maybe even forever and it could potentially help with your injury.

Either way, good luck!

 

[bell1986]

On cycles there's different approaches. Some ppl like to keep estrogen in range no matter what else there on. Test could be 5000 and they keep e2 in the normal reference range. Some guys go nuts and let there estrogen skyrocket on high test and HGH so they can try to get more out of the growth hormone because for some reason you get way higher igf-1 levels when you're estrogens high on HGH. It's something like when estrogens high it changes how the liver makes igf-1 and it increases significantly more then if you're estrogen had been in range or just lower in general. Don't crucify me I might have butchered how that works lol. I don't know a ton about those types of processes. HGH is tricky.

I'm a little bit in-between. When I go on higher doses of testosterone, as my test levels go up I start to feel better on higher amounts of estrogen. I'll be on like 400 mg of testosterone and my estrogen will be a hundred and I'll feel awesome, I don't worry about keeping it at a certain ratio I just try not to let it get too far out of control and play it by the side effects.

If my sex drive is good and I'm not getting pimples or puffy nipples and Gino I'm usually good to go

Hey bud

Thought I would update this.

I dropped the dbol. It definitely helped the estrogen issues for a period but the headaches and nausea were too overwhelming.

I have stuck to using the DHEA though. The oral has been working the best. 25mg in the evening. My estrogen has went from 18 to 29 by changing my dose from 3x per week to twice per week and adding in 25mg DHEA. It isn't a massive jump but the difference in my mood has been incredible. I feel good again. Libido is up and morning wood has returned. Joints are still feeling a little creaky still. I know this will take time to sort itself. I've added in more omega 3's to hopefully help a little.

Thanks for all your help.

I felt like sh*t for so long that I just accepted this as my baseline. I actually suspect alot of people feel like total mould but just believe this is how your meant to feel. You really aren't. The body is very complex. If you treat it like sh*t then it's going to run like sh*t. All my friends have the worst diets. They all believe their healthy because they take a £1/$2 (Months supply) multivitamin everyday lol. Their all on psychiatric medications (SSRI's. Adhd meds etc) just to try and feel any form of better. It's actually quite sad that they don't realise how bad their treating their body and not respecting their health. Eating some vegetables each day isn't going to kill you.

How are things your end? Your health holding up ok?

Are you weight training consistently? I'm rocking an 8 week old injury (Nerve compression) and still healing. Been grim to be honest but gotta let myself heal. The joys of getting older.

Take care

 

[Smont]

Going from 18 to 29 is actually a 60% increase, that is a huge jump! Glad your feeling better.

I haven't been lifting weights much lately, definitely not anything worthy of seeing progress lol. I've been doing a few exercises when I train my youth boxers on Tuesday and Thursday and occasionally on Saturdays I lift hard. But again, not making any progress, kinda going backwards if anything. But I'm working on cardio and I've been sparring 2x week with a few of the guys who are fighting next month (one this month 22nd.) I have a minor bicep injury from throwing wide left hooks but other then that, nothing is too best up. The lack of training has helped in that aspect. I'm about to start a 6-7 week cut and my goal is to loose as much fat as possible and drop 15lbs so I'm aiming at 2lbs/week. Doesn't sound like much but I'm pretty lean already, it's not going to be a fun 15. Don't care if I loose a little muscle, I'm not lifting weights that can risk injury, No cycle, no TRT +
Just test 120-150mg a week depending on when I remember my shots and SLU PP when I remember and metformin with my last meal of the day.

Boxing training 4 days a week and some random strength training mixed in 2-3 days a week, nothing to failure.

In the late winter I'm planning on going hard so now Im just healing and getting lean and giving the weights a break

 

[Dongfix1]

When are you testing? You should do the test at the trough, so injecting once per week you test on the day of injection but before your injection

Your total testosterone indicates either testing a couple hours after injection or you're taking approximately 250mg weekly and not 150mg weekly.

Be honest - are you also taking primobolan, masteron or equipoise?

 

[bell1986]

When are you testing? You should do the test at the trough, so injecting once per week you test on the day of injection but before your injection

Your total testosterone indicates either testing a couple hours after injection or you're taking approximately 250mg weekly and not 150mg weekly.

Be honest - are you also taking primobolan, masteron or equipoise?

I do the test 24+ hours after injection. I've also done 48 hours after an injection also.

I've always had high testosterone from lower doses. Just the way I must metabolise it.

No I don't use any other steroids ie primobolan etc. I know that all DHT based steroids lower estrogen. Honestly I've tried numerous different things to improve my estrogen.

I'm currently using 25mg DHEA and that's bumped it up a little. I feel better.

 

[Dongfix1]

I do the test 24+ hours after injection. I've also done 48 hours after an injection also.

I've always had high testosterone from lower doses. Just the way I must metabolise it.

No I don't use any other steroids ie primobolan etc. I know that all DHT based steroids lower estrogen. Honestly I've tried numerous different things to improve my estrogen.

I'm currently using 25mg DHEA and that's bumped it up a little. I feel better.

I personally would switch to testosterone enanthate once weekly and test on the day of the injection prior to your injection - this is the correct time to test

 

[bell1986]

I personally would switch to testosterone enanthate once weekly and test on the day of the injection prior to your injection - this is the correct time to test

I feel worse on a once a week jab.

I've experimented with different dosing protocols. I feel best on 3x per week.

I'm having some success with DHEA daily. It's lifted my estrogen a little and improved my mood.

I'm not sure what happened with my aromatase expression. I have read that higher fibre diets can cause lower estrogen. My diet is definitely fibre rich. I have also been trying to lower this and see if it has any impact.

 

[Hyde]

You know that men on TRT often become deficient in DHEA right? And they make 50 and 100mg caps? If you need more estrogen, bump it to 50/day! Bloods will tell you if DHEA gets too high, but if you’re within 450 levels and feeling good, it’s all good!

 

[bell1986]

You know that men on TRT often become deficient in DHEA right? And they make 50 and 100mg caps? If you need more estrogen, bump it to 50/day! Bloods will tell you if DHEA gets too high, but if you’re within 450 levels and feeling good, it’s all good!

Hey

Using 25mg actually knocks me slightly off the top end of the range. I've done bloodwork on it and off dhea I'm at the bottom end (Classic TRT) and 25mg I'm slightly out of range.

I wonder how many people who are on TRT don't supplement DHEA or even test for it? I remember when I first tested DHEA and seen how low it was. That first time I took it I felt like I was on a drug. I think everyone should be testing these neurosteroids. It can change your full TRT protocol.

 

[Hyde]

Hey

Using 25mg actually knocks me slightly off the top end of the range. I've done bloodwork on it and off dhea I'm at the bottom end (Classic TRT) and 25mg I'm slightly out of range.

I wonder how many people who are on TRT don't supplement DHEA or even test for it? I remember when I first tested DHEA and seen how low it was. That first time I took it I felt like I was on a drug. I think everyone should be testing these neurosteroids. It can change your full TRT protocol.

Yeah mine is around 100 off it, bottom end. I have some transdermal Neuro DHEA from Iconic that is cheap, dries fast, and gives an immense sense of wellbeing and energy bump at half an ml (25mg I believe). But it still jacks up my estrogen immediately, even transdermal, so I just take it once in a blue moon.

I do take 10mg sublingual Pregnenolone (little cherry-flavored ones you set in your lip from Nootropics Depot) virtually every day. Seems to really increase my focus/processing power, and I start most days with it. But the dose is low enough it doesn’t mess with estrogen meaningfully. It does help my joints overall though too.

 

[BBiceps]

Yeah mine is around 100 off it, bottom end. I have some transdermal Neuro DHEA from Iconic that is cheap, dries fast, and gives an immense sense of wellbeing and energy bump at half an ml (25mg I believe). But it still jacks up my estrogen immediately, even transdermal, so I just take it once in a blue moon.

I do take 10mg sublingual Pregnenolone (little cherry-flavored ones you set in your lip from Nootropics Depot) virtually every day. Seems to really increase my focus/processing power, and I start most days with it. But the dose is low enough it doesn’t mess with estrogen meaningfully. It does help my joints overall though too.

Does it matter what brand of DHEA as long as it’s a good brand (known brand with good reputation)? I haven’t tried It but been interested

I also found the pregnenalone supplement you use, did a little reading, seems like something I should try.

I’ve had some extreme fatigue/brain fog lately (even on cycle), DHEA and pregnenalone might be helpful.

 

[bell1986]

Does it matter what brand of DHEA as long as it’s a good brand (known brand with good reputation)? I haven’t tried It but been interested

As long as the brand seems respectable then you should be fine.

I bought a tub from a company and took it a couple days then tested my bloodwork and and my DHEA went the bottom end of the range to the top. I knew they were legit so I just kept with them.

Are you on TRT?

 

[Hyde]

Does it matter what brand of DHEA as long as it’s a good brand (known brand with good reputation)? I haven’t tried It but been interested

It’s dirt cheap, so probably not, but transdermal converts significantly less to estrogen. Oral is mainly ideal for raising estrogen quickly, or for women in general.

 

[BBiceps]

As long as the brand seems respectable then you should be fine.

I bought a tub from a company and took it a couple days then tested my bloodwork and and my DHEA went the bottom end of the range to the top. I knew they were legit so I just ke

Are you on TRT?

Nice, yeah I think I’ll try some DHEA. What dose did you start with?

Yes, I’m on TRT.

 

[Renew1]

It’s dirt cheap, so probably not, but transdermal converts significantly less to estrogen. Oral is mainly ideal for raising estrogen quickly, or for women in general.

Yeah, brother....
Like you said .... TD converts to Estrogen..... But oral versions REALLY convert to Estrogen (in Men).
Whenever people ask me how to raise their Estrogen.... That's my stock answer (oral DHEA).
I've got a bottle that I've had Forever, and that's the only reason that I have it, for the Rare occasion when I need to raise my Estrogen.

 

[bell1986]

Nice, yeah I think I’ll try some DHEA. What dose did you start with?

Yes, I’m on TRT.

I personally use 25mg a day.

Some people start with 5mg and titrate up. Everybody's body is different and dhea can take different pathways.

Though on TRT without HCG it seems that exogenous testosterone cause your neurosteroids to down regulate. This can make TRT actually feel miserable. Low libido. Depression. Anxiety etc. I've seen guys go from feeling dreadful to full of energy by simply adding the neurosteroids back in.

You ever tested these hormones?

 

[BBiceps]

I personally use 25mg a day.

Some people start with 5mg and titrate up. Everybody's body is different and dhea can take different pathways.

Though on TRT without HCG it seems that exogenous testosterone cause your neurosteroids to down regulate. This can make TRT actually feel miserable. Low libido. Depression. Anxiety etc. I've seen guys go from feeling dreadful to full of energy by simply adding the neurosteroids back in.

You ever tested these hormones?

Not lately, I have a blood draw this week, I’ll see if I can add those.

Lately I have been feeling more fatigue/tired than I should, my recovery is sh*t and feeling weak. The”miserable, low libido, depression” is what I feel now, probably not if you compare to other ppl but for being me it is.

 

[bell1986]

Not lately, I have a blood draw this week, I’ll see if I can add those.

Lately I have been feeling more fatigue/tired than I should, my recovery is sh*t and feeling weak. The”miserable, low libido, depression” is what I feel now, probably not if you compare to other ppl but for being me it is.

Sadly this is actually very common with trt. The part that annoys me is people saying how amazing they feel on it (In the beginning) but never open up when they start feeling like trash.

I would almost guarantee that your neurosteroids will be low. If your able to add it to your bloodwork then it can atleast rule this out.

You will notice it the following day after adding in DHEA. It raises your levels very fast.

Can I ask. Has your morning wood became less and less?

Your diet hasn't changed at all has it? The reason I ask is. I wasn't eating enough fats for a while and that seriously messed me up. I kept buying the usual 'Protein' based stuff and the company's rip all the fats out and bump the protein numbers. My body felt like glass when my fats were too low. Also my omega 3 intake was basically zero. Once I checked my diet and seen this I started eating a large amount of fats. This definitely helped with libido and mood etc.

Just check these things and experiment with dhea/Pregnenolone. I think that combo will give you your spark back

 

[BBiceps]

Sadly this is actually very common with trt. The part that annoys me is people saying how amazing they feel on it (In the beginning) but never open up when they start feeling like trash.

I would almost guarantee that your neurosteroids will be low. If your able to add it to your bloodwork then it can atleast rule this out.

You will notice it the following day after adding in DHEA. It raises your levels very fast.

Can I ask. Has your morning wood became less and less?

Your diet hasn't changed at all has it? The reason I ask is. I wasn't eating enough fats for a while and that seriously messed me up. I kept buying the usual 'Protein' based stuff and the company's rip all the fats out and bump the protein numbers. My body felt like glass when my fats were too low. Also my omega 3 intake was basically zero. Once I checked my diet and seen this I started eating a large amount of fats. This definitely helped with libido and mood etc.

Just check these things and experiment with dhea/Pregnenolone. I think that combo will give you your spark back

Morning wood is hit or miss, mostly miss actually.

Diet is about the same as always, that’s one thing a fairly good at but I am lacking sleep, so I overcompensate with caffeine/stimulants so I don’t miss a day in the gym… I know, when I type it out it’s pretty easy to see where my problems are coming from… I travel all over the world for work so I’m constantly in different time zones and majority of the time I have issues sleeping because of that as well, the stimulant addiction doesn’t help that either.

I guess I’m just trying to find a loophole so I can keep pushing…

 

[bell1986]

Morning wood is hit or miss, mostly miss actually.

Diet is about the same as always, that’s one thing a fairly good at but I am lacking sleep, so I overcompensate with caffeine/stimulants so I don’t miss a day in the gym… I know, when I type it out it’s pretty easy to see where my problems are coming from… I travel all over the world for work so I’m constantly in different time zones and majority of the time I have issues sleeping because of that as well, the stimulant addiction doesn’t help that either.

I guess I’m just trying to find a loophole so I can keep pushing…

Your body could be slightly burnt out? You will know how important sleep is. I worked a job for 5 years and it was a very early start and my sleep was a mess. I eventually quit because my health was just falling too bits.

If you can fit naps in here and their then atleast try this? Though... If your using stimulants all day it could make that difficult. I also use to abuse stimulants. Pre workouts/Coffee etc until one day I collapsed and took a TIA (A mini stroke) in my early 30's. Luckily I was fine but I now just do 1 coffee a day and I'm good. Stimulants are horrible on your body.

Try that dhea combo and see how you get on? Could help with sleep also.

Keep us posted.

 

[BBiceps]

Your body could be slightly burnt out? You will know how important sleep is. I worked a job for 5 years and it was a very early start and my sleep was a mess. I eventually quit because my health was just falling too bits.

If you can fit naps in here and their then atleast try this? Though... If your using stimulants all day it could make that difficult. I also use to abuse stimulants. Pre workouts/Coffee etc until one day I collapsed and took a TIA (A mini stroke) in my early 30's. Luckily I was fine but I now just do 1 coffee a day and I'm good. Stimulants are horrible on your body.

Try that dhea combo and see how you get on? Could help with sleep also.

Keep us posted.

Thank you, I received the DHEA and Preg today so hopefully I’ll feel amazing () in a few days. I will also try to prioritize sleep better. I let you guys know how it goes, thanks!

 

[LeanEngineer]

just do 1 coffee a day and I'm good.

Same I do large coffee per day or an energy drink. I don't go past 100-200 mg of caffeine any more. Use to be stim junky!

 

[bell1986]

Same I do large coffee per day or an energy drink. I don't go past 100-200 mg of caffeine any more. Use to be stim junky!

I was the exact same. I have very vivid memories of the Ds Craze days lol. I then went onto excelsior and that's when I collapsed and took the mini stroke. I wasn't actually abusing it though. Just the standard dosing everytime I trained tbh.

I think that pre workouts are horrible on your body. A huge flood of adrenaline followed by a stinker of a crash. I genuinely would never touch them ever again.

1 coffee everyday and I feel much better.

A friend of mine always thought it was funny that his nose would start to bleed after an energy drink.......... He genuinely would laugh.

 

[vlsk10]

so you feel better with the dailey dhea? don't constantly go peeing anymore? so it wasn't related to abnormal PSA levels or anything like that (Prostate inflammation)?

 

[Dongfix1]

If you're on TRT why don't you ask your dang doctor

 

[lanky]

i think my estradiol was between 18-21 even when my total test was 62ng/dl or in the 700ng/dl range.

 

[Smont]

Thank you, I received the DHEA and Preg today so hopefully I’ll feel amazing () in a few days. I will also try to prioritize sleep better. I let you guys know how it goes, thanks!

Do you have any HCG?

 

[Smont]

Same I do large coffee per day or an energy drink. I don't go past 100-200 mg of caffeine any more. Use to be stim junky!

I'm on my 6th cup of coffee today . I switched to folders black silk because it's only 40-60mg cup. When I quit drinking booze, I was at one point drinking a 10 cup pot per day of regular coffee

 

[bell1986]

Thank you, I received the DHEA and Preg today so hopefully I’ll feel amazing () in a few days. I will also try to prioritize sleep better. I let you guys know how it goes, thanks!

Awesome I'm pretty sure it will help. Try and just start with a small dose and work up from their.

Yeh sleep should be a #1 priority. Though I do understand work/finances and slotting in a good sleep schedule. I've been their before. Gotta just force yourself to make a better routine. Even small changes can make big differences.

 

[bell1986]

If you're on TRT why don't you ask your dang doctor

The UK health service is awful.

If I went to a doctor and explained my situation they would tell me... I need to stop TRT.... Even though my body physically can't recover anymore. I've tried.

Anyway I've managed to find a balance.

 

[LeanEngineer]

I'm on my 6th cup of coffee today . I switched to folders black silk because it's only 40-60mg cup. When I quit drinking booze, I was at one point drinking a 10 cup pot per day of regular coffee

Dang! Went from alcoholic to coffeholic!

I'm pretty sure I heard Andrew Huberman intakes like 600-800 mg of caffeine a day. He's seems like a pretty knowledgeable and healthy guy so we're probably ok

 

[vlsk10]

Dang! Went from alcoholic to coffeholic!

I'm pretty sure I heard Andrew Huberman intakes like 600-800 mg of caffeine a day. He's seems like a pretty knowledgeable and healthy guy so we're probably ok

you confusing huberman with andrew tate whose constantly praising cofee and bottled sparkeling water lol

on a carnivore or meat based diet, cofee is fine. on a vegan diet however (which andrew tate does not recommend) - cofee would be actually very bad. not only because of mineral excretion through urine but because of the blocked absorption in vegan iron sources.

 

[vlsk10]

i'm doing 3 cups of hot cofee right now and a 500mg niacin flush btw. 2 hours before physical exercise in the afternoon,

love the feeling of a burning face and body. and the stimulating effect of cofee.

 

[LeanEngineer]

you confusing huberman with andrew tate whose constantly praising cofee and bottled sparkeling water lol

on a carnivore or meat based diet, cofee is fine. on a vegan diet however (which andrew tate does not recommend) - cofee would be actually very bad. not only because of mineral excretion through urine but because of the blocked absorption in vegan iron sources.

No it was Andrew Huberman. I was surprised to!

https://www.tiktok.com/video/7529239601974643999

 

[bell1986]

No it was Andrew Huberman. I was surprised to!

https://www.tiktok.com/video/7529239601974643999

I think everybody's actual tolerance is a factor in caffeine intake. Also genetics.

If any of you guys have done a genetic test. Their is a gene called COMT (Catechol o methyl transferase). It basically is the gene/enzyme that breaks down neurotransmitters. I personally have a slow comt which means that my dopamine/norepinephrine levels remain raised. Sounds good on paper but it isn't. Anything that causes my norepinephrine levels to spike will cause anxiety as my comt enzyme struggles to clear the excess.

I've learned how to work with it though.

If you have never done a genetics test it's honestly the best money I ever spent. I learned so much and I even base my diet around it and it's worked wonders.

 

[BBiceps]

I’m probably around 600mg caffeine a day, the energy drinks are addicting and I have some sometimes just for the taste. That we have energy drinks at my work doesn’t help either. I wish I got that great feeling of energy that I once had but those days are long gone unfortunately…

 

[bell1986]

I’m probably around 600mg caffeine a day, the energy drinks are addicting and I have some sometimes just for the taste. That we have energy drinks at my work doesn’t help either. I wish I got that great feeling of energy that I once had but those days are long gone unfortunately…

Do you notice any positives with the energy drinks? I personally feel terrible with them. One issue is the large dose of caffeine all at once but also they load it up with cheap B12 cyanocobalamin. Alot of people don't realise that some people can't process cyanocobalamin properly at all.

If you lowered your caffeine dose for a couple weeks and just use higher doses now and again you would probably get that high from the 600mg doses?

Because I don't use much caffeine at all now I still feel very sensitive too it.

 

[Hyde]

If you lowered your caffeine dose for a couple weeks and just use higher doses now and again you would probably get that high from the 600mg doses?

Absolute waste of time; everyone who has done that realizes the magic doesn’t last. The body seeks homeostasis - whatever you do routinely, you will get used to, to a degree. So drink the amount you feel good with/about.

I usually consume about 500-800mg/day over about 3 separate administrations. 300-500mg periWO, 1-2 10-12oz mugs of drip coffee, maybe an energy drink instead on an off-day from training. But I’m also 240lbs.

 

[BBiceps]

Do you notice any positives with the energy drinks? I personally feel terrible with them. One issue is the large dose of caffeine all at once but also they load it up with cheap B12 cyanocobalamin. Alot of people don't realise that some people can't process cyanocobalamin properly at all.

If you lowered your caffeine dose for a couple weeks and just use higher doses now and again you would probably get that high from the 600mg doses?

Because I don't use much caffeine at all now I still feel very sensitive too it.

Yes, I do get a little stim effect from the caffeine but I try to not go over 200mg a drink. I would get a “high” if I do take a big dose at one time. The 600mg a day is divided 3-4 times. The drinks are definitely for taste but also to not be tired. I can not remember the time I worked out without any caffeine/stims though.

I did go 2 weeks without stims one time, was all excited to have stims again but was very disappointed that it felt like the same as before the break. I’m sure I could lower it but I’m not sure it’s any reason to, if I need caffeine I’ll use it and if not I won’t.

 

[Hyde]

Yes, I do get a little stim effect from the caffeine but I try to not go over 200mg a drink. I would get a “high” if I do take a big dose at one time. The 600mg a day is divided 3-4 times. The drinks are definitely for taste but also to not be tired. I can not remember the time I worked out without any caffeine/stims though.

I did go 2 weeks without stims one time, was all excited to have stims again but was very disappointed that it felt like the same as before the break. I’m sure I could lower it but I’m not sure it’s any reason to, if I need caffeine I’ll use it and if not I won’t.

A big consideration is, are you getting good sleep? I do now generally that I have a CPAP, so the caffeine is more for performance or pleasure. I do not need that much, and I don’t HAVE to have caffeine right when I wake up. I can take an hour or two and wait til I start my work if I need.

But the caffeine helps my work and my training, so it’s generally present.

 

[Smont]

From my past experience (with myself) you can't really cut back on caffeine and regain sensitivity. You gotta completely cut it out for a while. Then reintroduce slowly and eventually your gonna be right back where you started. It's kinda like most every other drug. If your doing coke, dope or drinking until intoxicated or high, 7 nights a week, and cut down on the total amount used, your just going to be less drunk or high, but your not going to reset anything. If you quit for month, it's a different story.

Caffeine is a drug, a very addictive drug. How many ladies are raging psychopaths if they don't get there morning coffee .

 

[LeanEngineer]

Caffeine is a drug, a very addictive drug. How many ladies are raging psychopaths if they don't get there morning coffee

I can attest to this personally!

 

[lanky]

How many ladies are raging psychopaths if they don't get there morning coffee .

most are that at work even if they do have coffee

 

[bell1986]

A big consideration is, are you getting good sleep? I do now generally that I have a CPAP, so the caffeine is more for performance or pleasure. I do not need that much, and I don’t HAVE to have caffeine right when I wake up. I can take an hour or two and wait til I start my work if I need.

But the caffeine helps my work and my training, so it’s generally present.

I also never have caffeine when I wake up. I just feel that if your waking up and running to the kettle to get a coffee into your system then I think it's a sign of a poor sleep and diet. I use to do it and by 1-2pm I would just feel like trash and need to drink more caffeine. I had anxiety 24/7 when I use to do this. Their is also the cortisol theory that has been spoke about (Coffee spiking already high morning cortisol and causing a crash). I will admit. Delaying my morning coffee to around 2 hours has made a huge difference in the afternoon. I even got my partner into doing this. At first they were very defensive and stubborn at the idea. I managed to get them to do it for just one week and they have never went back to their old routine.

I still love coffee though. I do keep decaf at home and if I'm craving a coffee I will have a decaf. Still let's me enjoy a brew without the stimulation.

I'm 40 next year and my goal is too feel as best as possible. Diet/sleep/exercise is the key to feeling your best. Though I will still indulge now and again. A couple glasses of wine or a take away now and again is a nice way to chill out. I will do this once a month and the rest of the time I meal prep or cook from scratch.