DMHA with caffeine?

[Smont]

Yes the moderation is something I have trouble with. Also I feel the benefits of stimulants can build up over time. The longer you can keep it in your system without too many side effects, the better your workouts are going to be.

Mindset was overall good on the HTP product, it was more of an increase in heart rate that was of concern. I doubt that DMHA works through dopaminergic pathways, however I could be wrong. The literature is pretty limited. Please someone correct me if this is wrong. I know that PEA is supposed to increase DA, however the half life is too short for any practical benefits. DMAA should also increase DA based on the literature but pushes harder on NE based on past experience

Dmha has several effects on dopamine

 

[vlsk10]

Nice recommendation with the sunflower lecithin. Any specific brand? I was getting a really expensive brand of choline off Amazon (I'll probably get flamed for this).. but it really made a huge difference for me in terms of a positive mental state.

With 5 HTP I would dose it at night as it's a precursor to SERT and Melatonin. I would take it with 10 grams of EAA's, 5 grams of glutamine, and 5 to 10 mg of Melatonin a night. I also take wormwood every night to help balance out my gut bacteria, otherwise melatonin could cause some serious nightmares. However I only take a specific brand of wormwood because most of the brands are giving you the wrong extract and they are not meant to be taken every night. OR they are using fillers and simply cannot be trusted. However the brand that I currently have been taking every night for the last few years. I pretty much swear by it.

Again I'll probably get flamed for this because I buy it off Amazon

Amazon.com

No recommendation on sunflower lecithin, I take something locally produced in powdered form (350g bottle - non gmo). Just make sure it's got a label showing the Phospholipids content per 100g (min 60%) and compare it with other brands. 10-15g is usually the recommended daily dose, There's 310mg choline in mine per 10g.

Yeah - I already take glycine (6g), 5htp (150mg), taurine (2g) l-theanine (200mg) & magnesium (375mg) + 750mg of gaba. I sleep good but I notice more drowsiness and fewer morning erections lately, probably because of shorter days - more darkness outside. So I wanna reduce this down a bit. I'm thinking about trying 400mg of riboflavin before bed and nothing else. People say it helps them with deep sleep. It's important to wake up with a boner-maybe less side effects with vit b2 Gut health is good. Colostrum, Zinc-L-Carnosine- sometimes glutamine/nac and just regular kefir helps me big time there.

 

[ugsavage]

Dmha has several effects on dopamine

Any literature to prove this?

 

[ugsavage]

Nice PM stack man. That's heavy on the Gaba for sure! Idk.. the literature on Gaba is all over the place. But that could be why your feeling drowsy the next day that's a huge dose. I briefly looked into this research. I personally would be cautious and like you said maybe reduce it down a little bit

Neurotransmitters as food supplements: the effects of GABA on brain and behavior - PMC

Gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA) is the main inhibitory neurotransmitter in the human cortex. The food supplement version of GABA is widely available online. Although many consumers claim that they experience benefits from the use of these products, ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[vlsk10]

Nice PM stack man. That's heavy on the Gaba for sure! Idk.. the literature on Gaba is all over the place. But that could be why your feeling drowsy the next day that's a huge dose. I briefly looked into this research. I personally would be cautious and like you said maybe reduce it down a little bit

Neurotransmitters as food supplements: the effects of GABA on brain and behavior - PMC

Gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA) is the main inhibitory neurotransmitter in the human cortex. The food supplement version of GABA is widely available online. Although many consumers claim that they experience benefits from the use of these products, ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I think the gaba capsule does very little to be honest. It's not picamillon excatly, but Theanine crosses the BBB and increases Gaba + Serotonin. 5htp increases serotonin as you said earlier. Taurine is a weak gaba agonist and basically a milder sedative than the others so I don't think it's the culprit.

unfortunantely I can't cut the theanine tabs in half (they're too small and I don't know how much half a tablet would give me) so I may have to order 100mg strenght in the future. 5htp I could maybe open up capsule and take half but capsule still has fillers. glycine I'm thinking about trying 2-3grams again rather than the heaped teaspoon I use now. so half a teaspoon. but yeah, i guess I could try cut the theanine tablet in half. wouldn't guarantee me a 100mg however. I have ordered 400mg nutricost B2 - I'm gonna try it soon. I don't wanna play with serotonin and gaba supplements too much at night.

 

[Smont]

Any literature to prove this?

Tons, Go to Google, press the microphone, and say how does dmha affect dopamine levels and you will have endless information at your fingertips. (Yes I'm often too lazy to type


Its in the first sentence

Octodrine: New Questions and Challenges in Sport Supplements - PMC https://share.google/lpbAj5D5vWEdUkJlO

 

[John Smeton]

Any stimulate can cause a low feeling the next day, ephedrine, dmaa, anything that works well

It's from dopamine going above baseline and not getting that like you once were I think

Cold showers can help in the morning the boost dopamine naturally but it's really not substanable, but I still use them from time to time, when they seem to make sense

In all my preps I quite ephedrine cold turkey after I was done for the season, like the day after competing if I wasn't doing another one soon

You could ween down a few days then come off, depending on the dose, or use 2 mgs nicotine gum for a few days

Glp s supposed to help

Or possibly some recreational substances have been shown to help with drug dependance , at least for a shorter period

 

[vlsk10]

Tons, Go to Google, press the microphone, and say how does dmha affect dopamine levels and you will have endless information at your fingertips. (Yes I'm often too lazy to type


Its in the first sentence

View attachment 256190

Octodrine: New Questions and Challenges in Sport Supplements - PMC https://share.google/lpbAj5D5vWEdUkJlO

I used to have really bad sciatica a couple of years ago, herniated disc in L5-S1. Now all gone and much better after losing more weight and putting on strenght (im really happy because I had an awful 3-4 years of constant pain dailey and in bed). This study mentions the pain threshold increase of DMAA and DHMA and I remember I always felt cured in my legs 24-48 hours after intake. And then it just came back and I was back to limping and bitching over the pain again. So whilst you got sad the next day, at least it had some very short lived good properties too. It's bad for cardiac health however and it messes with dopamine and serotonin receptors yes

 

[ugsavage]

Tons, Go to Google, press the microphone, and say how does dmha affect dopamine levels and you will have endless information at your fingertips. (Yes I'm often too lazy to type


Its in the first sentence

View attachment 256190

Octodrine: New Questions and Challenges in Sport Supplements - PMC https://share.google/lpbAj5D5vWEdUkJlO

Ehh. I'm still not convinced.

This article is only referring articles in which DMHA was studied in a lab. I should have been more specific in that I'm referring to literature with human data and again. I don't believe that exists other than it's effects as a decongestant.

A compound can show certain activity in lab studies, or how we like to say "on paper". However once we introduce into to the human body the mechanism of action can change

 

[Smont]

This literature is

Ehh. I'm still not convinced.

This article is only referring articles in which DMHA was studied in a lab. I should have been more specific in that I'm referring to literature with human data and again. I don't believe that exists other than it's effects as a nasal decongestant.

A compound can show certain activity in lab studies, or how we like to say "on paper". However once we introduce it to the human body the mechanism of action can change completely

Not my job to convince anyone of anything. But the research is there, I just have read a bunch of stuff that shows DMHA has a significant impact on dopamine and can interfere with SSRI and other things like that contributing to serotonin syndrome. How likely is it or how much, idk. I just know lots of things effect dopamine, especially in combination with other compounds so I always check and be careful.

I'm not saying there's going to be side effects from it, I'm just saying DMHA absolutely has a impact on dopamine. It's short lived so I'd imagine timing it directly with something else like a SSRI or Methylene blue or 5 htp would be more likely then if separating doses.

 

[ugsavage]

From anecdotal experience DMHA seems to have a more pronounced effect on noradrenaline and maybe a weak effect on dopamine. However who knows if the product I took was actually DMHA since it was a HTP product and cannot be trusted. I ended up only taking half the bottle and throwing the rest out.. had my heart rate through the roof

 

[Smont]

From anecdotal experience DMHA seems to have a more pronounced effect on noradrenaline and maybe a weak effect on dopamine. However who knows if the product I took was actually DMHA since it was a HTP product and cannot be trusted. I ended up only taking half the bottle and throwing the rest out.. had my heart rate through the roof

Personally I can't use DMHA, it gives me a anxiety attack, same with yohimbine at a certain dose too

 

[LucasBagoDoce]

Personally I can't use DMHA, it gives me a anxiety attack, same with yohimbine at a certain dose too

Alpha Yohimbine (rauwolscine) does that to me at ANY dose
To the point I get shortness of breath

 

[vlsk10]

Alpha Yohimbine (rauwolscine) does that to me at ANY dose
To the point I get shortness of breath

That's clenbuterol for me. Some nasty ****. Or the first weeks of using levothyroxine. Or the first capsule of yohimbine taken in a very long time. Your body quickly adjusts. I don't know guys but if you are skinny or got heart disease yohimbine will obviously hit big. But 5mg of yohimbine barely noticable if you ask me. Just make sure to be rested in the morning. Take it with some buttered coffee?

 

[Smont]

What's buttered coffee?

 

[vlsk10]

What's buttered coffee?

Just some black coffee with a small teaspoon of grass fed butter. (Bulletproof coffee). I prefer some whole milk with it too. It slows down digestion a little bit but not in a bad way. I've lost many pounds with buttered coffee along my high protein breakfast.

It lowers cortisol and keeps you full while you prepare for your morning workouts. It's great because yohimbine in itself is ment to be taken on a fasting stomach. Maybe the combination makes you less ill.

 

[Smont]

Just some black coffee with a small teaspoon of grass fed butter. (Bulletproof coffee). I prefer some whole milk with it too. It slows down digestion a little bit but not in a bad way. I've lost many pounds with buttered coffee along my high protein breakfast.

It lowers cortisol and keeps you full while you prepare for your morning workouts. It's great because yohimbine in itself is ment to be taken on a fasting stomach. Maybe the combination makes you less ill.

Ya........ I'm gonna pass on the butter, Il just stick with a little cream in my coffee. Was this something that became popular with keto and carnivore?

 

[Smont]

Alpha Yohimbine (rauwolscine) does that to me at ANY dose
To the point I get shortness of breath

Funny ish story, I used alpha in a pre workout at 2mg and I was sparring (lightly) with omeone who's not very good, so there's literally zero danger, no1 watching, just flow sparring and all the sudden it hits me. I feel like I'm having a heart attack, my headgear starts feeling like it's shrink wrapping my face, my throat swelled up and I start gagging. Full blown panic attack at the gym. The guy I'm sparring with thinks I'm sick or something so I made a break for the bathroom. Gym owner (family friend) starts a random conversation with me about something completely non related and half way through our conversation he says, you good now lol. He figured out what happened and was just trying to distract me from the anxiety lol

 

[vlsk10]

Ya........ I'm gonna pass on the butter, Il just stick with a little cream in my coffee. Was this something that became popular with keto and carnivore?

Heavy cream should work too but you gett less of the good nutrients. Animal Fat or cholesterol doesn't make you fat btw.. If it was raw cream maybe even better. Just make sure it's got only 3-4 percent natural carbs and no hidden sugar. In europe there are some processed creams that have lower fat content and many seed oils in them. So just make sure it's real cream.

I'm not sure. I picked it up from an American tv show 10 years ago. I don't do keto or carnivore btw. I eat high protein(only animal based + dairy), medium fat(mostly animal) and medium healthy carbs + vedge.

 

[Smont]

Heavy cream should work too but you gett less of the good nutrients. Animal Fat or cholesterol doesn't make you fat btw.. If it was raw cream maybe even better. Just make sure it's got only 3-4 percent natural carbs and no hidden sugar.

I'm not sure. I picked it up from an American tv show 10 years ago. I don't do keto or carnivore btw. I eat high protein(only animal based + dairy), medium fat(mostly animal) and medium healthy carbs + vedge.

Time out boss. I think your a bit confused about how nutrition and calories work.

Any kind of fat can make you fat
Any kind of carbs can make you fat
Any kind of protein can make you fat.

At the same time, fat doesn't make you fat
Carbs don't make you fat
Protein doesn't make you fat.

Eating too many calories makes you fat, and if you're worried about your nutrient intake in comparisons of fat to butter or half and half you've got everything ass backwards to begin with because the amount of nutrition in any of those things is minuscule.

Grass fed butter

I'm a strength and conditioning coach and the majority of my clients are weight loss people and fighters getting in shape for boxing and MMA, I know a thing or two about nutrition and weight loss. At the end of the day calories in versus calories out is really all that matters for total weight gained or total weight loss. There's no magic going on where animal fats don't make you fat. Because they absolutely do if you in a caloric SURPLUS and when you are in a caloric surplus the fastest way to store body fat is by eating extra fat. Because it's already fat to begin with in your body doesn't have to convert it into something else.


All diets work if you follow them correctly and to follow them correctly also means you need to be in a defect to lose weight in a surplus to gain weight and at the end of the day those are the most important factors that determine your results.

 

[vlsk10]

Time out boss. I think your a bit confused about how nutrition and calories work.

Any kind of fat can make you fat
Any kind of carbs can make you fat
Any kind of protein can make you fat.

At the same time, fat doesn't make you fat
Carbs don't make you fat
Protein doesn't make you fat.

Eating too many calories makes you fat, and if you're worried about your nutrient intake in comparisons of fat to butter or half and half you've got everything ass backwards to begin with because the amount of nutrition in any of those things is minuscule.

I'm a strength and conditioning coach and the majority of my clients are weight loss people and fighters getting in shape for boxing and MMA, I know a thing or two about nutrition and weight loss. At the end of the day calories in versus calories out is really all that matters for total weight gained or total weight loss. There's no magic going on where animal fats don't make you fat. Because they absolutely do if you were in a caloric surplus and when you were in a caloric surplus the fastest way to get fat is by eating extra fat. Because it's already fat to begin with in your body doesn't have to convert it into something else.

All diets work if you follow them correctly and to follow them correctly also means you need to be in a defect to lose weight in a surplus to gain weight and at the end of the day those are the most important factors that determine your results.

Yeah you're right, my guy It was my understanding that people already know what kind of calories they consume. A teaspoon of butter (5gram) in my morning coffee is 35 kals by the end of day. It's not gonna do much significance brother. For my fat loss or fat gain. Substitute it for some cream if you'd like. Just don't get processed creams with lower fat content because it will have at least 3 kinds of seed oils in them which are unhealthy.

 

[Smont]

Yeah you're right, my guy It was my understanding that people already know what kind of calories they consume. A teaspoon of butter (5gram) in my morning coffee is 35 kals by the end of day. It's not gonna do much significance brother. For my fat loss or fat gain. Substitute it for some cream if you'd like. Just don't get processed creams with lower fat content because it will have at least 3 kinds of seed oils in them which are unhealthy.

I've never seen half and half with seed oil before, every bottle of half and half I've ever bought in my life contains milk and cream. I have 4-6 servings of this every day year-round lol. (I drink a lot of coffee) But whether I'm 10% body fat or I'm bulking until my abs disappear I maintain this in my diet. I will eventually get to a point where I have to drop this and all dairy for that matter if I want to get crazy shredded but it's more because of water retention then because of the fat or the calories. But at the same time if I switch to Black coffee those last couple weeks on a cut I can eliminate an extra 200 to 300 calories

 

[Smont]

I completely forgot this thread is about DMHA and caffeine lol, @ugsavage my bad I'm going off the rails

 

[vlsk10]

I've never seen half and half with seed oil before, every bottle of half and half I've ever bought in my life contains milk and cream. I have 4-6 servings of this every day year-round lol. (I drink a lot of coffee) But whether I'm 10% body fat or I'm bulking until my abs disappear I maintain this in my diet. I will eventually get to a point where I have to drop this and all dairy for that matter if I want to get crazy shredded but it's more because of water retention then because of the fat or the calories. But at the same time if I switch to Black coffee those last couple weeks on a cut I can eliminate an extra 200 to 300 calories

View attachment 256220

I had to check the english term cuz I'm not native. I was refering to cooking creams or light creams, usually with 4, 8, 12 and sometimes 15% fat per 100ml. Such products here in the EU contain only a small portion from milk fat and the rest is a concuntion of sunflower, rapeseed, shea or soybean oil+ emulsifiers and thickners such as modified starch (corn/maltodextrin) which turns into insuline and glucose in your body.

So that product is fine. I like people going a bit off topic btw. For wisedom. If the igredients list is too big, don't buy it people. Buy only the purest of products. Single ingredients.

 

[LucasBagoDoce]

Funny ish story, I used alpha in a pre workout at 2mg and I was sparring (lightly) with omeone who's not very good, so there's literally zero danger, no1 watching, just flow sparring and all the sudden it hits me. I feel like I'm having a heart attack, my headgear starts feeling like it's shrink wrapping my face, my throat swelled up and I start gagging. Full blown panic attack at the gym. The guy I'm sparring with thinks I'm sick or something so I made a break for the bathroom. Gym owner (family friend) starts a random conversation with me about something completely non related and half way through our conversation he says, you good now lol. He figured out what happened and was just trying to distract me from the anxiety lol

that's crazy
the last time I've taken alpha-y was also a 2mg dose and man... I was freaking out at the gym. Got paranoid over everything. not for me either
you're not alone, man lol

 

[vlsk10]

Try the regular hcl version standalone. Those Tripple Y versions and alpha yohimbine alone are too strong . This afternoon I just had the best bycycle experience. 41F outside, autumn darkness. A cup of cofee + 5mg yohimbine hcl + some cayenne peppar + cordyceps and coq10. I even added a 100mg 7keto. Waited half an hour maybe. Breathing is excellent, speed is excellent. Body thermogenic and heat - excellent. I freaking never get tired.

I know one thing that beats yohimbine. Phenylpirecatam - 80mg - it's got choline and caffeine in it too. Try combining it with the yohimbine - I dare you.

 

[ugsavage]

That's clenbuterol for me. Some nasty ****. Or the first weeks of using levothyroxine. Or the first capsule of yohimbine taken in a very long time. Your body quickly adjusts. I don't know guys but if you are skinny or got heart disease yohimbine will obviously hit big. But 5mg of yohimbine barely noticable if you ask me. Just make sure to be rested in the morning. Take it with some buttered coffee?

Lol. I never had a reason to try clen or levothyroxine (T4) but I have used T3 at very low dosages. It was during and after a course of anabolics that where notorious for lowering T3.

Yohimbine to me is on par with what other members here are saying. Makes me feel way overstimulated and anxiety/ panicking attacks. I don't see any reason to mess with that stuff when there are much better alternatives

 

[ugsavage]

Just some black coffee with a small teaspoon of grass fed butter. (Bulletproof coffee). I prefer some whole milk with it too. It slows down digestion a little bit but not in a bad way. I've lost many pounds with buttered coffee along my high protein breakfast.

It lowers cortisol and keeps you full while you prepare for your morning workouts. It's great because yohimbine in itself is ment to be taken on a fasting stomach. Maybe the combination makes you less ill.

I have tried bulletproof coffee and that stuff taste nasty!

I'm sure that's it's good for you though. I have to agree with @Smont I like heavy cream or half and half. I used to drink three large coffee a day like this and I would get a really nice buzz. Using very high quality beans and a french press

 

[LeanEngineer]

Black coffee those last couple weeks on a cut I can eliminate an extra 200 to 300 calories

Liquid calories is probably the easiest way to cut out calories when switching to a cut. So many people I know start their day with a juiced up coffee that's a couple hundred calories.

 

[vlsk10]

I have tried bulletproof coffee and that stuff taste nasty!

I'm sure that's it's good for you though. I have to agree with @Smont I like heavy cream or half and half. I used to drink three large coffee a day like this and I would get a really nice buzz. Using very high quality beans and a french press

Yeah but I use less butter than the traditonal recipe. And I drink it fast so the butter don't set - usually within 5-10 min. Otherwise it tastes like puke yes. Btw - I also use a french press and I drink cofee dailey but my father has recommended against it. Cofee made in a french press contains higher amounts of cofee oils and it was linked to cancer. I swear I read it somewhere and now chatgpt says it's totally fine and even good for you with higher cofee oils. Like even anti mflammatory (like wtf?). Where the **** did I read it was bad. There was a study - I know there was. Just can't find it anymore. But letting your french press cofee go through a 100% unbleached BPA free cofee filter is more safe. I just don't have the time .New Cofee machine on black friday maybe?

 

[Smont]

You can find a study that says anything. There's studies that say steroids don't build muscle lol

 

[vlsk10]

You can find a study that says anything. There's studies that say steroids don't build muscle lol

Yeah maybe. Wasn't there a study saying that untrained people who took steroids and didn't go to the gym, gained more muscles than those who did. Like wtf again

 

[Smont]

Yeah maybe. Wasn't there a study saying that untrained people who took steroids and didn't go to the gym, gained more muscles than those who did. Like wtf again

Water weight registers as lean muscle mass on a dexa scan. So in these types of studies people start taking testosterone and then they put on a little bit of water weight and it registers as muscle. I think in the study you're referring to they were given 600 mg of testosterone per week which is absolutely going to put a little bit of water weight on everybody in those first few weeks

 

[ugsavage]

You can find a study that says anything. There's studies that say steroids don't build muscle lol

It's true. Most studies are bullshit. I typically only refer to the medical literature

 

[ugsavage]

Yeah but I use less butter than the traditonal recipe. And I drink it fast so the butter don't set - usually within 5-10 min. Otherwise it tastes like puke yes. Btw - I also use a french press and I drink cofee dailey but my father has recommended against it. Cofee made in a french press contains higher amounts of cofee oils and it was linked to cancer. I swear I read it somewhere and now chatgpt says it's totally fine and even good for you with higher cofee oils. Like even anti mflammatory (like wtf?). Where the **** did I read it was bad. There was a study - I know there was. Just can't find it anymore. But letting your french press cofee go through a 100% unbleached BPA free cofee filter is more safe. I just don't have the time .New Cofee machine on black friday maybe?

Interesting discussion here. I honestly stopped drinking coffee all together, since the acidity began messing with my PH levels and giving me all kinds of side effects. I stick to my preworkout drinks nowadays

 

[Smont]

Interesting discussion here. I honestly stopped drinking coffee all together, since the acidity began messing with my PH levels and giving me all kinds of side effects. I stick to pre workouts nowadays

The human body has to have a pH between 7.35 and 7.45

If it goes more then 0.5 out of that range you very likely will die.

THere are no foods or beverages that change your body's pH enough to make any noticeable difference.

Even the "alkaline diet" doesn't actually change your body's ph


your likely experiencing acid reflux and or acid reflux related gut issues.

But it has nothing to do with your body's pH

 

[ugsavage]

I do believe your correct that our PH levels do not change much regardless of diet. However I would prefer keeping that range more towards the alkaline side. Not sure if that has any practical benefits

 

[Smont]

I do believe your correct that our PH levels do not change much regardless of diet. However I would prefer keeping that range more towards the alkaline side. Not sure if that has any practical benefits

Ya there's very little changes, I was actually following a type of alkaline diet years ago thinking I was going to correct my gut issues and acid reflux and make sure I can't get cancer and all the other things that sound cool about it and as I went down the rabbit hole i quickly learned it was a bunch of BS. But at the same time it did make me cut out processed food and eat a lot more fruits and vegetables so it was just healthy overall but it definitely didn't fix my heartburn and my acid reflux and the other 27 ailments . I'm glad I have no issues with coffee, I'm not one of those people who gets cranky or Moody if I don't get my coffee but I just enjoy coffee, I drink a ton of it. Probably way more than I should

 

[vlsk10]

Interesting discussion here. I honestly stopped drinking coffee all together, since the acidity began messing with my PH levels and giving me all kinds of side effects. I stick to my preworkout drinks nowadays

I'm unaffected by this but noticing a bad feeling when I take fadogia agrestis. With or without food it just burns in my stomach... Too much acidity or something. Nutricost's cheap little root extract. Think I'm gonna quit that herb

 

[ugsavage]

I'm unaffected by this but noticing a bad feeling when I take fadogia agrestis. With or without food it just burns in my stomach... Too much acidity or something. Nutricost's cheap little root extract. Think I'm gonna quit that herb

I would recommend SNS Fadogia XT. I have ran it during a PCT protocol and it was pretty excellent

Fadogia XT by SNS

Fadogia XT by SNS Serious Nutrition Solutions

www.strongsupplementshop.com

 

[vlsk10]

I would recommend SNS Fadogia XT. I have ran it during a PCT protocol and it was pretty excellent

Fadogia XT by SNS

Fadogia XT by SNS Serious Nutrition Solutions

www.strongsupplementshop.com

Thanks. I'll order it soon. Just need to find some good tongkat to order along with it. very hard finding tongkat now - from EU vendors. If I could find a HGW extract with 70 % icarin from the same EU vendor that be amazing too lol.

 

[Mx1x1]

Thanks. I'll order it soon. Just need to find some good tongkat to order along with it. very hard finding tongkat now - from EU vendors. If I could find a HGW extract with 70 % icarin from the same EU vendor that be amazing too lol.

Order nutritional supplements cheaply | Muscle Lab

Your online shop for top bodybuilding products and nutritional supplements. Our years of experience in bodybuilding help you target and…

www.muscle-lab.de

They're currently oos on SNS Tongkat (listed under Optimize-T) and Muscle Addiction Test Fix which is Fadogia + Tongkat, but they should have them back soon

XPG Alpha Gel would be a transdermal Tongkat option. Might be in stock rn, didn't check

 

[vlsk10]

Order nutritional supplements cheaply | Muscle Lab

Your online shop for top bodybuilding products and nutritional supplements. Our years of experience in bodybuilding help you target and…

www.muscle-lab.de

They're currently oos on SNS Tongkat (listed under Optimize-T) and Muscle Addiction Test Fix which is Fadogia + Tongkat, but they should have them back soon

XPG Alpha Gel would be a transdermal Tongkat option. Might be in stock rn, didn't check

Great options. But SNS fadogiapure is the only one I can get my hands on right now- if I can still trust bodyshock. There's also some kind of Harmony Concept (250mg 2%) and Tongkat ali pharma -x (200:1 500mg). but they seem fishy. There was also a new UK brand introduced called nordic labs (UK or norweigan) but it got out of stuck pretty quickly and they produce prohormones as well so likely spiked.. Btw, not sure if I want ksm-66 so just looking for the actual longjack. I hope they restock before black friday or any ongoing autumn sales

The gel one they do have. Maybe will buy.

 

[LeanEngineer]

Thanks. I'll order it soon. Just need to find some good tongkat to order along with it. very hard finding tongkat now - from EU vendors. If I could find a HGW extract with 70 % icarin from the same EU vendor that be amazing too lol.

Optimize-T has tongkat ali in it that you could pick up at Strong Supplement Shop as well

Optimize-T by Serious Nutrition Solutions

When you finally had enough with B.S. hype and are ready to try something that gives full disclosure of it's ingredients and packs a serious punch of effectiveness, Optimize-T is here.

www.strongsupplementshop.com

 

[ugsavage]

Great options. But SNS fadogiapure is the only one I can get my hands on right now- if I can still trust bodyshock. There's also some kind of Harmony Concept (250mg 2%) and Tongkat ali pharma -x (200:1 500mg). but they seem fishy. There was also a new UK brand introduced called nordic labs (UK or norweigan) but it got out of stuck pretty quickly and they produce prohormones as well so likely spiked.. Btw, not sure if I want ksm-66 so just looking for the actual longjack. I hope they restock before black friday or any ongoing autumn sales

The gel one they do have. Maybe will buy.

Speaking on exotic test boosters I really want to try SNS Anabolic XT and then maybe add a standalone tongkat extract. However it does seem increasingly difficult to find as a stand alone without the addition of KSM ashwaganda. I tend to find that stuff can crash your cortisol levels over time (is that even possible?)

I remember taking a tongkat extract several years ago at like three times the recommended dose and having very good results. To be fair though this was after a full blown cycle and 8 week PCT. I do feel that Tongkat is pretty underrated IMO

 

[BCseacow83]

Again, ephedra and all of its derivatives are banned in the US. Too many people were cooking with it if you know what I'm saying

No one was using mahuang sourced ephedrine alkaloids for such things. Psuedo or hcl is their jam. Both still available otc in most states. Just behind the counter, requires an id and there is a monthly limit. Discourages the smurfs.

 

[ugsavage]

No one was using mahuang sourced ephedrine alkaloids for such things. Psuedo or hcl is their jam. Both still available otc in most states. Just behind the counter, requires an id and there is a monthly limit. Discourages the smurfs.

Interesting how the FDA regulates it, but big pharma still makes their money. Seeing as it can be used as a nasal decongestant.

Edit 50 mg of DMAA has been working very well for me. Anything above 50 mg is too much