Low libido while on TRT...
- Thread starter EddyStarkFit
- Start date
EddyStarkFit
New member
You are both correct, it won't prevent suppression of the HPTA axis during exogenous T administration which make it's inclusion seem not as useful for most, but in sufficient doses it does prevent a hard shutdown that would require a longer PCT.
Still, it's clear I should listen to you and ditch clomid in favor of hCG on this scenario, as to have fewer elements to work with and thus side effects to balance in a darker period.
Still, it's clear I should listen to you and ditch clomid in favor of hCG on this scenario, as to have fewer elements to work with and thus side effects to balance in a darker period.
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EddyStarkFit
New member
Yes, as in they are still active in producing small amounts of androgens during the cycle or TRT and no fully turned off, which is harder to deal with after you decide/have to interrupt exogenous T.
BBiceps
Well-known member
No, you’re not open, your completely ignoring everything we say and still keep doing weird sh*t, no wonder you have issues.
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EddyStarkFit
New member
I literally said I'll drop the clomid as things haven't been working anyways. I was trying to do everything possible, being eager to improve due to some importante events in my life, but it's gone..
So only test and AI it will be, I did it on the past with morbid results at the time. I will be doing tests more frequently to see how it goes.
One question, can I do low dose proviron at first, before introducing an AI as needed boss? E2 crash happened before and it's not pretty.
So only test and AI it will be, I did it on the past with morbid results at the time. I will be doing tests more frequently to see how it goes.
One question, can I do low dose proviron at first, before introducing an AI as needed boss? E2 crash happened before and it's not pretty.
lanky
Active member
my libido is maybe a low medium even on TRT in the 600ng/dl range but much better than when i was around 62ng/dl. over the years it has gone down slowly, my libido is highest in the morning and by evening i am just to exhausted from work to even care about sex/masturbation, it became an issue with my ex a few years back because she worked night shift and had all her energy between 5p-3am and when i got home from work at 8pm i just wanted to eat dinner and unwind my brain from a high physical and mental stress job that i had to be back at early in the morning
lanky
Active member
definitely i think age has a lot to do with such decrease in libido throughout the day. i remember when i was in my teens through mid 20's i was horny all throughout the day. probably by early to mid 30's i saw a big change where libido was high in the morning and tapered off throughout the day, and by mid 40s only libido before noon and softer erections. have a cialis prescription from my urologist i got filled last month but only took a half tablet to test out
BBiceps
Well-known member
Dail in your TRT before you add anything. How much Test are you doing? If it’s still 80mg a week I’m not even sure you need an AI at all but blood work will tell if you do.
My TRT is 1 shot of 200mg Test C a week, I take 1mg Anastozol on pin day. Libido and overall feeling is good for me on that. No reason to make it complicated.
EddyStarkFit
New member
I'll start with 150mg of Sustanon per week at first (about 100mg pure T) and take only 1/2 pill of Proviron (12,5mg) ED, early in the morning. Seems safe.
BBiceps
Well-known member
The main reason I advise against taking anything but TRT at first is because even a small dose of DHT might throw off the rest of your values (Test/Estro). Besides, 12.5mg Proviron is completely pointless anyway so why do you want to use it?
Not to be a dick but the more you reply with excuses on why you don’t do TRT only the more it’s clear why you have issues.
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Joshlm69
Well-known member
Have to agree…you’ve been recommended 100 times to JUST take TRT until you’re in a good place, which can take months to configure the dose to find your balance, but you insist on just constantly adding in more compounds/SERMS. You’re never going to find a good place if you do this. No point advising anymore
Smont
Legend
This don't make any sense. Your not avoiding shutdown by using clomid.
Bro, we gave you the most likely answer back in July! It's almost October.
HCG followed by dhea and possibly Pregnenolone. Derma is my choice for that. And honestly, even if DHEA wasn't the issue, there's really no drawbacks to doing the HCG followed by the supplements. I find most guys who use HCG say they lean out on it as long as there estrogen don't go ape ****. HCG will give you higher total test and once everything is balanced out the TD DHEA or Dermacrine (not a fan of oral unless I specifically want more estrogen)
EddyStarkFit
New member
Thank you for paying attention to this topic, I'm glad something makes sense to someone. I won't add it then.
I asked if it was feasible before mainly because I want to have libido and be functional asap. I always got this stuff prescribed to go with testosterone (mostly clomid and proviron), but it was not working anymore anyway.
I'll follow trough sticking to the test base and get new bloodwork in about two weeks.
EddyStarkFit
New member
I asked because I was doctor told that it might be beneficial in this scenario, without risking additional sides testosterone would not already give me, plus possible libido and a lower aromatization rate as bonus. Not arguing, just explaining the reasoning for the question.
But again, I'll stick with the wisdom from the forum on this one and give TRT by itself another proper shot.
EddyStarkFit
New member
SERMS are supposed to prevent a hard shutdown, been published as a method for preserving fertility during TRT and that indicates that balls keep working. But that's not the point, clomid has many sides to take into account, besides that I'll do what I'm told as I'm speaking with people that have what I want.
Yes I'm tempted to do hCG and DHEA(Derma), I was actually doing both before (w/ oral DHEA), but I wont even suggest it as I might get lynched if I question the importance of dialing in a pure testosterone regimen as the first reasonable step again in this forum.
Thank you for the suggestion of Derma, I got to look into it and it seems the obvious next step, I'll look into how to source it where I live as to have it available asap.
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BBiceps
Well-known member
Great! It’s nothing wrong with doing daily shots but find a pin schedule that you’re ready to do for a long period of time, 1 or 2 times a week is a lot easier than ed for an example. I would also recommend to get 1 ester like Test C or Test E instead of Sust that contains many different fast and slow acting esters, idk maybe that could throw you off. Raise your dose until you get to the desired effect/Test level for you. Use AI to control your E. Use Cialis if needed, low dose can be beneficial either way. If you decide to use HCG for fertility, start with a low dose, you don’t need much. I used 250iu 2x week to go from zero sperm count to making babies for an example.
EddyStarkFit
New member
You're correct, daily pinning already started to feel as an unnecessary burden, switching to M-W-F. I'll request cypionate from the doc for the next prescription. Is two weeks enough time to consider raising the dose?
Also, adding 5mg tadalafil nightly from now on, and I'll get hCG available just in case. Maybe pin 250iu Mondays and Wednesdays after things get going to make sure everything keeps working.
EddyStarkFit
New member
Thank you everyone, you were right and you helped me get significantly better by abandoning the daily adaptations, it was pure despair and that’s not how we fix anything.
@Smont, @skrug91, @BBiceps, @mase1, @delsolrob, @zaareleq, @Joshlm69, @lanky
What worked best to fix hormonal fluctuations was sticking to the frequent doses, without frequently messing with everything at once.
That allowed me to notice I had to abandon hCG because of the crazy aromatization, 50-109pg/mL with <300IU twice a week. Even though paradoxically it was beneficial for libido/E it was unbearably unstable, and my oily acneic skin/unstable mood made me drop it.
My condition changed, thus bringing into the foreground a potentially fried dopamine/cortisol systems regulation. And urologists correctly observed the recent hormonal fluctuations still kept me within functional parameters.
@John Smeton
Still, my life is now significantly better now.
@Smont, @skrug91, @BBiceps, @mase1, @delsolrob, @zaareleq, @Joshlm69, @lanky
What worked best to fix hormonal fluctuations was sticking to the frequent doses, without frequently messing with everything at once.
That allowed me to notice I had to abandon hCG because of the crazy aromatization, 50-109pg/mL with <300IU twice a week. Even though paradoxically it was beneficial for libido/E it was unbearably unstable, and my oily acneic skin/unstable mood made me drop it.
My condition changed, thus bringing into the foreground a potentially fried dopamine/cortisol systems regulation. And urologists correctly observed the recent hormonal fluctuations still kept me within functional parameters.
@John Smeton
Still, my life is now significantly better now.
EddyStarkFit
New member
Update - Currently extended recovery protocol
This libido / sensitivity / erection trifecta started a long time ago and progressed slowly, reaching the point of me becoming mostly irresponsive to PDE-5. Now it fluctuates. As I’ve had excellent days it doesn’t seem to be the case that plumbing is the problem as observed by two urologists, it's very spaced out unfortunately.
Still not quite comfortable to have intimate relationships as I live in a very small city IYKYK.
This is what I should be taking at the moment as prescriptions were updated / not doing all:
ADD / execution dysfunction
✓ Vyvanse 35mg ED
✓ Bupropion 150mg
✓ Modafinil 50mg (QED - currently ED)
TRT
✓ Sustanon: 175 mg/week (split ED: 25 mg SUBQ)
✓ Pregnenolone: 15–25 mg SL (AM)
✓ DHEA: 10–20 mg SL (AM)
✓ Proviron: 25–50 mg/day (split AM/PM)
✓ Raloxifene: 60 mg/day (nightly)
✓ Cabergoline: 0.25 mg ED to twice a week (nightly) ~ Helped with executive dysfunction when introduced.
✗ Progesterone Cream pump (nightly)
✗ Exemestane: 2 mg when necessary ~ Don’t need it anymore since stopping hCG
Supplements
✓ Berberine 500mg-1g, Pinus Pinaster 300mg, Citrulline 6-9g, Taurine 2g, Krill Oil 2g, Creatine 10+g.
Eventual Agmatine, Ashwagandha and other supposedly harmless supplements.
I suspended these month ago, which were suspected to be involved
✗ Oxandrolone: 12.5–25 mg/day (once PM pre-workout)
✗ Oxymetholone: 12.5–25 mg/day (once PM pre-workout)
~ Suspended due to suspicion of 17-alpha-alkylated related endothelial damage.
✗ HCG: 275IU, 2x/week (Mon/Thu SUBQ)
~ Suspended due to heavy aromatization (E2 >50ng/mL up to the point of 109ng/mL).
- Toremifene was the one drug that made me come back to the land of the living by itself half a year ago.
Unable to source where I live are Toremifene, Enclomiphene, Selegiline and Dermacrine.
Note: Some items had to go back due to other symptoms and did not worsen the condition.
This libido / sensitivity / erection trifecta started a long time ago and progressed slowly, reaching the point of me becoming mostly irresponsive to PDE-5. Now it fluctuates. As I’ve had excellent days it doesn’t seem to be the case that plumbing is the problem as observed by two urologists, it's very spaced out unfortunately.
Still not quite comfortable to have intimate relationships as I live in a very small city IYKYK.
This is what I should be taking at the moment as prescriptions were updated / not doing all:
ADD / execution dysfunction
✓ Vyvanse 35mg ED
✓ Bupropion 150mg
✓ Modafinil 50mg (QED - currently ED)
TRT
✓ Sustanon: 175 mg/week (split ED: 25 mg SUBQ)
✓ Pregnenolone: 15–25 mg SL (AM)
✓ DHEA: 10–20 mg SL (AM)
✓ Proviron: 25–50 mg/day (split AM/PM)
✓ Raloxifene: 60 mg/day (nightly)
✓ Cabergoline: 0.25 mg ED to twice a week (nightly) ~ Helped with executive dysfunction when introduced.
✗ Progesterone Cream pump (nightly)
✗ Exemestane: 2 mg when necessary ~ Don’t need it anymore since stopping hCG
Supplements
✓ Berberine 500mg-1g, Pinus Pinaster 300mg, Citrulline 6-9g, Taurine 2g, Krill Oil 2g, Creatine 10+g.
Eventual Agmatine, Ashwagandha and other supposedly harmless supplements.
I suspended these month ago, which were suspected to be involved
✗ Oxandrolone: 12.5–25 mg/day (once PM pre-workout)
✗ Oxymetholone: 12.5–25 mg/day (once PM pre-workout)
~ Suspended due to suspicion of 17-alpha-alkylated related endothelial damage.
✗ HCG: 275IU, 2x/week (Mon/Thu SUBQ)
~ Suspended due to heavy aromatization (E2 >50ng/mL up to the point of 109ng/mL).
- Toremifene was the one drug that made me come back to the land of the living by itself half a year ago.
Unable to source where I live are Toremifene, Enclomiphene, Selegiline and Dermacrine.
Note: Some items had to go back due to other symptoms and did not worsen the condition.
John Smeton
Legend
I was diagnosis with adhd at fourteen, psyche local doctor put me on four different drugs, and they made caused massive negative effects. This was 1995 . Now a days I just do sometimes an unregulated psychedlic(s) every now and then for serotonin that the docs got my brain addicted to at an early age. Ive gone years without any, thirteen one time, and yes it can be a long time untill you do it with brain craving it, in the back of mind, but still there and a strong craving
This reminds of of what they did with number thirteen (MiIllie Bobby brown) in The first season of stranger things, what they did to me and many adolestants expirementing with four, and five drugs at a time, when parents had no clue about any research and just gave the okay bc the young person was not to the parents liking and rebelled. Enough about me though
do you relize too high dopamine too long causes parkinsons?
Micheal J fox filmed school ties in am and back to the futre in pm, getting two hours of sleep a night, and was wacked out on heavy stimulates, not sure if it was a lot of cocaine , or cystal, but if you do see that movie hes geeeked out in it. Look at Ozzy, he did lsd for two years straight, that effects dopamine, and boatloads of cocaine and twenty five years before his death on the Osbounes hes brain was fried
Most things need breaks or only a certain time on
why are you on these adhd medications and do you take breaks for the drugs that increase dopamine, ne, etc?
Is the a.m. oral Pregnenolone for anxiety to riase gaba levels, if not what is the purpose?
Why dhea, have you had labs that showed dhea was low then this dose put them in range?
Why raloxifene nightly, esp 60 mgs?
why Pregnenolone cream at night, gaba a receptors Im guessing, like the oral, and is it the actual hormone or the stuff bought on amazon with wild yams? how does it compare to oral in regards to activating gaba a?
did you know hormonals that influence neurotransmitters work different than say a xanax (gaba a), or phenibut or baclofen (gaba b), that they can cause lasting changing , and regular chemistry ones, non hormonal, really can not cause genetic changes per say long term ?
Be careful with the harmless supplements. Just bc they are otc dont mean they cant really mess you up. egcg and velvet bean extract , mucuna pruriens , l dopa ( percent does matter )can cause very and extreme increased dopamine
High Egcg , like found in magic matcha, and 5-htp, possibly passion flower, st Johns wort, this can cause serontin syndrome esp after doing something recreational that releases serotontin. If in doubt , dont do any of these fancy supplements afterwards, better safe than sorry, and I speak from expiremence
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EddyStarkFit
New member
Interesting analogy, I got the message and agree.. Neurotransmitters are not something to played with at will, or taken lightly by any means.
I realized I was not clear in describing my whole case as tanked libido was the latest trigger for me, and the motivation behind this post.
With the described protocol I am looking forward to come out of dysfunction, both mental (fog/fatigue, paralysis/avoidance, memory/articulation) and physical (libido/erection, coordination), as after years of professional care there is still no clear path to treating those.
The most recent approach is this trial that consists on maintaining my hormones as stable as possible while trying to upregulate nitric oxide and dopamine. In the end it is being effective as fog, task paralysis and response to pde-5 drugs are getting noticeably better.
Also, I felt the absolute worst anxiety and fog while using only Concerta 36mg, before changing to the current stack of Vyvanse 35mg + Bupropion 150mg XL. I'm a lot calmer, less fidgety and more focused now.
Was not considering that as a possibility, will look into it and consider adapting my whole approach.
I had to do precisely that years ago to go through my PhD mixed while on a heavy workload on a very toxic failed relationship.
I used took breaks on ADHD meds, recently-unfortunately, every time I didn't take them has led to days that are completely lost. So for now I'm on them, low-dose and no pause.
I had just started on Cabergoline 4 weeks ago. Initially I actually had libido and refractory period shortening in mind. I was very bothered after a lot of frustration in bed, and losing what for me were promising relationships.
Yes, for both. And maintaining the hormonal pathways that are is lost during TRT. To see if that was the case for my brain fog an low libido / no erections.
No, the same as pregnenolone. Steroidal hormone supplementation to account for TRT suppressing the base of the hormonal cascade. No testing in a long time.
Both Pregnenolone / DHEA from The Vitamin Shoppe. Next batch Preg from BulkSupplements.
As a cleaner alternative for another SERM, used to reduce suppression due to the antagonism of ER-a. I have been prescribed Clomid, but I though I had the emotional sides, also wanting to avoid potential vision impairment.
So low dose Clomid was prescribe for continuous use to ago along with TRT by my GP.
Progesterone, yes. Gaba, libido and androstenedione. Hormone, compounded in a gel now.
Yes, I'm already fried when I embarked this journey of self care. Spent too many days in bed to not do anything anymore. And am open to whatever may help.
A long time only regulating TRT did not do much, I was at risk of losing my main income.
Now things are significantly more stable, still not where I need them to be tbh.
Thank you, I believe that is the case. I need to find functional grounds before I drop everything again. The last time I did the risk of losing everything proved to be too real. So baby steps from now on.
I avoid messing with serotonin since coming off Escitalopram about 10 years ago.
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EddyStarkFit
New member
Thank you John Smeton for taking the time, your attention is valuable as you touch on what I really need help with.
The MDs I've consulted with don't really know what to do. Some suggested dropping everything, which I tried for long enough and got very depressed. I then decided I rather remain functional and keep working my job. Others wanted to put me on unrelated meds I rather no be in.
Trying to get off TRT earlier this year using Clomid and hCG got me to the lowest point I've been in a while. I was clearly not ready for that. That's why for now I'll be moving slowly not to risk crashing again.
Still, I'm actually very open to suggestions and insights in where I might be going overboard / what I might be looking over. I'll take into account what you said about dopamine drugs, and it's time to do something about it. I don't want to trade performance now for long term crisis. I'm precisely looking for recovering function and getting stability.
The MDs I've consulted with don't really know what to do. Some suggested dropping everything, which I tried for long enough and got very depressed. I then decided I rather remain functional and keep working my job. Others wanted to put me on unrelated meds I rather no be in.
Trying to get off TRT earlier this year using Clomid and hCG got me to the lowest point I've been in a while. I was clearly not ready for that. That's why for now I'll be moving slowly not to risk crashing again.
Still, I'm actually very open to suggestions and insights in where I might be going overboard / what I might be looking over. I'll take into account what you said about dopamine drugs, and it's time to do something about it. I don't want to trade performance now for long term crisis. I'm precisely looking for recovering function and getting stability.
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EddyStarkFit
New member
Update
Today I'm dropping Cabergoline for good in order to avoid dopamine downregulation.
I got to compound Selegiline and source bulk Mucuna Pruriens, which are described to be neuro regenerative and may rebuild DA pathways in the long term as I've been studying. @Spurfy has posted about this.
Also adding back strains of Probiotics, higher doses of Magnesium glycinate.
Focusing on ideal sleep, direct sun exposure, aerobic exercise, lifting weights, avoiding alcohol and cheap dopamine.
Today I'm dropping Cabergoline for good in order to avoid dopamine downregulation.
I got to compound Selegiline and source bulk Mucuna Pruriens, which are described to be neuro regenerative and may rebuild DA pathways in the long term as I've been studying. @Spurfy has posted about this.
Also adding back strains of Probiotics, higher doses of Magnesium glycinate.
Focusing on ideal sleep, direct sun exposure, aerobic exercise, lifting weights, avoiding alcohol and cheap dopamine.
John Smeton
Legend
Dopamine raising drugs can be used, just not longterm. Say you use drugs and or herbs that boost dopamine three months out of the year. If caber helps I wouldnt just throw it away, you could use it on certain occasions, untill its gone, or if you use a nandrolone like npp or deca, maybe use it a day or two or eod sometimes, and other days use mucuna Pruriens
Im guessing caber would last ten years and still be relatively or a good percent potent but just guess, I didnt chatgpt that, and I could be wrong, each drug is different