Woman Doc Put Me on Kyzatrex

[Hyde]

I suspect it has no acute endurance effects like cardarine does. A single dose of cardarine can bump up a VO2 max or take tens of seconds of a minute off a mile run pace even in trained athletes. Or allow a lower HR zone at the same pace

If telmisartan enhances performance it’s probably more of a thing like this

Someone decides to start a running program for 1 year. At the end do that year two identical subjects who trained the same , maybe the one who took telmisartan had a small bump in VO2 max or lactate threshold compared to the other group who trained identically. Maybe even only statistically but not clinically relevant . Study hasn’t been done to my knowledge though

This logic at least makes sense to me. Being all anaerobic training, I just see an endurance benefit in my own in the sense that I am not a winded piece of **** when blasting, because my bp isn’t cranked up exhausting me from every activity.

 

[Rockslide]

This logic at least makes sense to me. Being all anaerobic training, I just see an endurance benefit in my own in the sense that I am not a winded piece of **** when blasting, because my bp isn’t cranked up exhausting me from every activity.

Yeah that’s IF it is a performance enhancer via PPAR it’s subtle , not like cardarine. Of course it doesn’t possibly cause colon cancer and decrease cellular apoptosis of pre cancerous pancreatic lesions so there is that

We know by modulating the renin/aldosterone system it decreases LV hypertrophy, which means it probably helps prevent it in a setting of gear (since gear does the opposite ). Also, during powerlifting short term valsalva maneuvers can send systolic BP of competitive strength guys up to 300ish. This promotes LV hypertrophy.

It also decreases cardiac afterload, that decreases cardiac work to deliver the same stroke volume (which is main determinate of O2 delivery)

Anything guys that lift (especially enhanced ) can do to take strain off the heart the better

 

[Smont]

All the super sounding effects of telmisartan i would say are all true, but i tell ppl its like a 2% improvement. Its happening but its not viagra and its not dnp, the effects are just a slight background noise while the main effects on bp and a few other health markers make up the other 98%.

Obviously I'm pulling these percentages out of my asz, its just the dumb it down example i like to give

 

[Beau]

Same with creams as kyatrex … they are expensive and don’t work well unless doctor is targeting levels of 450-500. Decent option for really old bachelors without families who are afraid of needles , otherwise would avoid

Best bet is to find a good pcp who is open to trt/hrt, next best bet is go to a urologist

My pharmacy compounded cream is $55/mo. It works. I pay out of pocket because it is easier than fighting with insurance, who wanted me to use a name brand products that was under-dosed, and for which they would only cover a measly amount of TD per application, and if I wanted to go above that amount - even though it was prescribed - it would have cost a mint.

 

[Rockslide]

My pharmacy compounded cream is $55/mo. It works. I pay out of pocket because it is easier than fighting with insurance, who wanted me to use a name brand products that was under-dosed, and for which they would only cover a measly amount of TD per application, and if I wanted to go above that amount - even though it was prescribed - it would have cost a mint.

Curious how your levels look on it? Due to the price and dosing of the name brand creams , seems like a lot of guys run around at 450-500 on them . As you said, cost and dosage that insurance will pay for .

As a caveat , for some guys who have severe hypogonadism ( levels sub 200) they feel great at 450-500. I also think as people get older they feel better with lower replacement levels .

Lots of controversy about what levels to target but I kind of believe in mid cycle average of 600ish in older guys and 800-900 in younger guys . Pellet community seems to shoot for 1200 post pellet, of course those wane over months so going into next pellet people are often sitting at 600ish

Also depends of sides/complications. Sitting with levels of 650 and not needing to give blood or use an AI is better for your health than sitting higher and needing to use those things providing someone feels decent with both

Treatment should be individualized to a patient based on symptoms , sides, goals , age, etc

It’s my opinion that injecting 2-3 times a week is the best method to achieve adequate high levels , have a predictable response , and limit sides. I also think pellets are a decent option . Creams and oral test has its place in the right patient

 

[lanky]

My pharmacy compounded cream is $55/mo. It works. I pay out of pocket because it is easier than fighting with insurance, who wanted me to use a name brand products that was under-dosed, and for which they would only cover a measly amount of TD per application, and if I wanted to go above that amount - even though it was prescribed - it would have cost a mint.

$55 a month is not bad for a higher concentration transdermal, i work directly with a urology group so i get tidbits on their side of the story with insurance companies/the patient aspect/ and the alerts from pharmacy for escalating dosage's prescribed in certain patients(you would not believe the amount of people traveling from doc to doc looking for higher dosages that are already on very high dosages that would put most people well above 400ng/dl even 5 days into a cyp or enanthate shot, most urology practices have seen a huge increase in the past 15 years. there is pushback on every end when it comes to HRT. each practitioner in the office has a different approach to HRT. the main robotics guy will prescribe transdermal only, others will offer injectable but recently also she said she wished more patients would go for Kyzatex, another one pushes for pellets(he can charge for in office procedure to insurance). i agree with what others have stated regarding going cash only practice for replacement. another one of my friends runs a rejuvenation clinic(mixed bag of cosmetic procedures/fillers/prp stuff, cosmeceuticals, the brunt of her clients are woman but she also does pellet therapy, from what she stated the goal for her male patients is to get in the 700-800ng/dl range .cost can add up really fast because you have to factor in you will be on it for the rest of your life.

 

[rixrix]

e .cost can add up really fast because you have to factor in you will be on it for the rest of your life.

This is another factor why I like injectables. I pay $10 for 90 days generic, through insurance, but even cash pay should be like $15 a month for even a fairly high TRT dose with a goodRX coupon through CVS or walgreens.

 

[Rockslide]

This is another factor why I like injectables. I pay $10 for 90 days generic, through insurance, but even cash pay should be like $15 a month for even a fairly high TRT dose with a goodRX coupon through CVS or walgreens.

This is a good point . It’s almost easier to not use your insurance and just use good rx. A lot of the insurances will require prior authorization where the clinic has to submit 2 fasting testosterone levels below whatever range the lab showed as low (250-300). Without it they won’t pay . A 10 ml vial with good rx runs about 40-70 bucks and will last 12 weeks at a relatively generous dose of 160 mg per week.

Once you start dealing with name brand products it gets even more complicated . Things like xyosted injections , jantezo, name brand creams . Even if you qualify by the arbitrary definition they set, they may not be formulary and may still be $50-$100 a month even if they are formulary. Compounded stuff is thus a good alternative as well.

Maybe eventually it will change but for now if you have a testosterone of 175 and another of 301 , no matter how symptomatic you are… insurance isn’t paying for your script. It’s asinine and very anti male considering the only thing a female needs to do to get hormone replacement is to report symptoms

 

[Hyde]

This is a good point . It’s almost easier to not use your insurance and just use good rx. A lot of the insurances will require prior authorization where the clinic has to submit 2 fasting testosterone levels below whatever range the lab showed as low (250-300). Without it they won’t pay . A 10 ml vial with good rx runs about 40-70 bucks and will last 12 weeks at a relatively generous dose of 160 mg per week.

Once you start dealing with name brand products it gets even more complicated . Things like xyosted injections , jantezo, name brand creams . Even if you qualify by the arbitrary definition they set, they may not be formulary and may still be $50-$100 a month even if they are formulary. Compounded stuff is thus a good alternative as well.

Maybe eventually it will change but for now if you have a testosterone of 175 and another of 301 , no matter how symptomatic you are… insurance isn’t paying for your script. It’s asinine and very anti male considering the only thing a female needs to do to get hormone replacement is to report symptoms

Take S23 the week leading up to your tests. You can find it everywhere online from 500 different research sites. Shuts you down exceptionally well, cheap, easy to locate, legal to possess.

 

[Rad83]

Take S23 the week leading up to your tests. You can find it everywhere online from 500 different research sites. Shuts you down exceptionally well, cheap, easy to locate, legal to possess.

A week to shut down, that’s ‘diabolical’ as the kids are saying

 

[Smont]

Take S23 the week leading up to your tests. You can find it everywhere online from 500 different research sites. Shuts you down exceptionally well, cheap, easy to locate, legal to possess.

Ive seen bloods 2 times where guys tank there testosterone to double digits (less then 100) with 25mg of osta in a week or 2. Someone here did it specifically to get on trt. Took there low 300's to a 40 in like 10 days

 

[rixrix]

I suspect playing games with your test levels is far more common than people think. I didn't have to, cause my test was low due crohns disease, but I probably would have gone that route if I needed to.

TRT is for life, so you do it once and suck it up for a week.

The alternative is...well, you've seen the alternative all around you. It's rare to see a natty 60 year old who looks healthy (and I don't mean jacked). But there are guys in their 70's at my gym who look like prime Arnold. I won't go (quite) that far, but I'd take that over a slouch, a cane, and a gut.

As I transition through late middle age into being, well, old, I think about it a lot.

My urologist actually told me "If you can squat 300 at 50, you will squat 150 at 70. If you can squat 150 at 50, you will squat 75 by 70 and you won't be able to get out of a chair by 80". I see this with my own father. He is 76 and in serious decline and too weak to sit on a medicine ball without falling over.

 

[Stacks1]

I suspect playing games with your test levels is far more common than people think. I didn't have to, cause my test was low due crohns disease, but I probably would have gone that route if I needed to.

TRT is for life, so you do it once and suck it up for a week.

The alternative is...well, you've seen the alternative all around you. It's rare to see a natty 60 year old who looks healthy (and I don't mean jacked). But there are guys in their 70's at my gym who look like prime Arnold. I won't go (quite) that far, but I'd take that over a slouch, a cane, and a gut.

As I transition through late middle age into being, well, old, I think about it a lot.

My urologist actually told me "If you can squat 300 at 50, you will squat 150 at 70. If you can squat 150 at 50, you will squat 75 by 70 and you won't be able to get out of a chair by 80". I see this with my own father. He is 76 and in serious decline and too weak to sit on a medicine ball without falling over.

I would have to say that is not entirely true. I've seen guys who are 60 in my gym and completely natural. They're not totally jacked but they are extremely fit and look incredible. They would put the majority of people in their 20s and 30s to shame. If you eat healthy, live a healthy lifestyle, and exercise regularly, then yes, you can still look great in your 60s. Of course you might not look or feel like you did in your 20s or 30s... but that's life.

 

[BlastDreams]

Here is what she wants to do now:

I recommend starting testosterone cypionate 200 mg IM every 4 weeks x 2 doses and then repeat testosterone 2 weeks after last injection.

Is this good or should I go somewhere else?

 

[Smont]

Here is what she wants to do now:

I recommend starting testosterone cypionate 200 mg IM every 4 weeks x 2 doses and then repeat testosterone 2 weeks after last injection.

Is this good or should I go somewhere else?

200mg every 4 weeks? Thats horrible thats 50mg a week and by week 3 your gonna tank. This protocol is just as bad as the oral, maybe worse

In its simplest explanation, My trt is 150mg every sunday. That keeps me in the 900's

 

[Smont]

If she did 200mg every 2 weeks that wouldn't be horrible, then i would eventually tell her i want to do my own injections at home so i dont gotta go to the doc every 2 weeks and i would do 100 every week on my own. Make sure she is testing your levels before your next injections and not right after. If you pin 200 your test might be 1500 for a day or 2 and then slopes off, by day 10-14 its probably in the 200's. Im winging the #'s but that shouldn't be terribly far off

 

[BlastDreams]

Your a legend thank you Smont

 

[BlastDreams]

What does pin mean? Sub Q?

 

[Smont]

What does pin mean? Sub Q?

Pin just means take a shot. Sub q or IM makes no difference.

The actual effects between IM and sub q are slightly different tho. Sub q gives a slower release and less peaks and vallys but you cant pin a whole ml sub q or it will hurt like a bitch. On trt i can pin (inject) 1x week no problem. on a cycle when im using more then 300mg of testosterone i do smaller more frequent shots to avoid estrogen spikes

 

[rixrix]

100 a week isn’t terrible but it’s clear she has no clue. Find someone who does. Or if you have the resources, use her for the paper and just supplement and buy labs.

 

[Hyde]

That’s worse than what you do now. Test and estrogen will be too high initially and then very low for over 2 weeks at a time. Nobody remotely knowledgeable is going to suggest less than 1x/wk administrations.

Real TRT is often 100-150mg of total test/wk.

 

[rixrix]

It waasn't clear what the actual dose was, I was thinking "tarting testosterone cypionate 200 mg IM every 4 weeks x 2 doses and then repeat testosterone 2 weeks after last injection." was 100mg a week. I'd divide this into two doses and do it with slin pins, which are cheap as hell. But that gets you legal test and bloodwork, and it's actually workable. If the instructions mean 200mg every 4 weeks that's not enough.

I'm of two minds. On the one hand, I'd find someone who seems to know more about this. On the other hand, the utter cluelessness of the doctor means that you would have a free hand to do what you need to do, yourself.