TRT + For Combat Sports

[jim2509]

Guys I'm making some head way with my 125mg trt having gotten back into Boxing/Strength/Conditioning at 49. Have some Var kicking about is it any use low dose (pre workout) to drive CNS, strength, cardio/recovery or is it not much use in that area and will be counterproductive pump hell evenat low dose? Have some Lgd as well so could use that as an alternative?

 

[Hyde]

Both of those give me big pumps. The Var will be fine if only using as a preWO for lifting sessions not attached to your fighting work, but I wouldn’t take it if you will also be rolling/doing drills, sparring, etc.

LGD has a very long half-life for an oral, over a day I believe, so taking that it will stay in the system. You can experiment with a very low dose but beware this possibility. Everyone is different, and also I normally use at least 30mg. 5mg may not be so bad, for example. But you can’t really use it acutely.

 

[jim2509]

Both of those give me big pumps. The Var will be fine if only using as a preWO for lifting sessions not attached to your fighting work, but I wouldn’t take it if you will also be rolling/doing drills, sparring, etc.

LGD has a very long half-life for an oral, over a day I believe, so taking that it will stay in the system. You can experiment with a very low dose but beware this possibility. Everyone is different, and also I normally use at least 30mg. 5mg may not be so bad, for example. But you can’t really use it acutely.

Thanks for the comprehensive reply mate. I guess Var won't be useful too much then for pad work/cardio due to pumps etc. Lgd might be a better fit then for all round sports use....I know alot of professional fighters in Boxing/MMA are getting pinged for Sarms at moment so they must be the go to.
I won't be competing against anyone either. I forgot about Tbol mind you I guess that would be similar issues to Var at low dose?

 

[BBiceps]

Thanks for the comprehensive reply mate. I guess Var won't be useful too much then for pad work/cardio due to pumps etc. Lgd might be a better fit then for all round sports use....I know alot of professional fighters in Boxing/MMA are getting pinged for Sarms at moment so they must be the go to.
I won't be competing against anyone either. I forgot about Tbol mind you I guess that would be similar issues to Var at low dose?

Naw, SARMS are pretty useless and if you by “pinged” mean Ryan Garcia failed a drug test for a micro dose of Ostarine I think that doesn’t really speak the truth that Sarms “must be the go to”.

If you want something to use low dose pre workout I would use Dbol, everything else needs to be cycled ed for a longer time to get full effect.

I never used LGD but it wouldn’t be my choice (or any Sarm) if I was going to fight again.

 

[Ironpirate]

Naw, SARMS are pretty useless and if you by “pinged” mean Ryan Garcia failed a drug test for a micro dose of Ostarine I think that doesn’t really speak the truth that Sarms “must be the go to”.

If you want something to use low dose pre workout I would use Dbol, everything else needs to be cycled ed for a longer time to get full effect.

I never used LGD but it wouldn’t be my choice (or any Sarm) if I was going to fight again.

I never heard anyone say that big guy over there is probably on osta.

 

[jim2509]

Naw, SARMS are pretty useless and if you by “pinged” mean Ryan Garcia failed a drug test for a micro dose of Ostarine I think that doesn’t really speak the truth that Sarms “must be the go to”.

If you want something to use low dose pre workout I would use Dbol, everything else needs to be cycled ed for a longer time to get full effect.

I never used LGD but it wouldn’t be my choice (or any Sarm) if I was going to fight again.

Yeah Ryan's levels were minimal but in both Boxing/MMA they've had quite a few show up in tests.

My only issue with Dbol is the Estrogen ontop of my TRT and its propensity to effect BP/Liver. I ran it back in 2012 and wasnt overly impressed. Wouldn't Var be a safer option sublingual pre work out? Low dose Tbol might be effective for cardio and endutance, but I've never used that and alot of people think Var is the safer option all round and its splitting hairs between the two.

 

[Hyde]

Thanks for the comprehensive reply mate. I guess Var won't be useful too much then for pad work/cardio due to pumps etc. Lgd might be a better fit then for all round sports use....I know alot of professional fighters in Boxing/MMA are getting pinged for Sarms at moment so they must be the go to.
I won't be competing against anyone either. I forgot about Tbol mind you I guess that would be similar issues to Var at low dose?

I’m responding to everyone when I say this:

If you have Tbol, Tbol is what you want. It is well-known for improving endurance and it doesn’t have the pumping issues that Var and Dbol have. It has been used across many sports well for decades now. Dbol is one of the absolute worst compounds for increasing pumps - they can be crippling on a simple 30-second set of curls.

And just because some fighters are getting popped for SARMs doesn’t mean they’re ideal. Any edge is an edge, but that doesn’t mean a sharpened toothbrush handle is what I’d choose over a real dagger if I have access to one. SARMs are just cheap and available and some athletes don’t realize they can test for all of the established ones now.

 

[BBiceps]

I’m responding to everyone when I say this:

If you have Tbol, Tbol is what you want. It is well-known for improving endurance and it doesn’t have the pumping issues that Var and Dbol have. It has been used across many sports well for decades now. Dbol is one of the absolute worst compounds for increasing pumps - they can be crippling on a simple 30-second set of curls.

And just because some fighters are getting popped for SARMs doesn’t mean they’re ideal. Any edge is an edge, but that doesn’t mean a sharpened toothbrush handle is what I’d choose over a real dagger if I have access to one. SARMs are just cheap and available and some athletes don’t realize they can test for all of the established ones now.

I seem to be the only 1 that loves Dbol but you’re somewhat right about the pump. I have used 5mg Dbol before kickboxing training/sparring and never had any issues with cramps/pumps but still have gotten a performance boost. I’ve also used about the same 5-10mg pre weights and got a nasty pump, for me it’s what I use it for. Dbol have a special place for me because it always works.
I dose Dbol low (5-10mg) so idk if I would get more sides if I dose higher but I have no interest to dose it higher since I get what I need from low doses. I would pulse low dose Dbol forever if I could.

I’m using Tbol now, only 1 week in so nothing to report. If you guys are interested I can let you guys know how it turns out, I still do quite a bit of fight training.

 

[BBiceps]

Yeah Ryan's levels were minimal but in both Boxing/MMA they've had quite a few show up in tests.

My only issue with Dbol is the Estrogen ontop of my TRT and its propensity to effect BP/Liver. I ran it back in 2012 and wasnt overly impressed. Wouldn't Var be a safer option sublingual pre work out? Low dose Tbol might be effective for cardio and endutance, but I've never used that and alot of people think Var is the safer option all round and its splitting hairs between the two.

Var doesn’t give that instant pre workout effect and can take awhile to “kick in”, idk some guys claim it does but I’m not sure they actually got real Var.
Var is only safe in therapeutic doses, in performance doses Var is as harsh as anything else (more/less).

I’m using Tbol now, only 1 week in so nothing to report. On paper that’s the drug for performance, I guess I find out soon.

 

[Hyde]

I seem to be the only 1 that loves Dbol but you’re somewhat right about the pump. I have used 5mg Dbol before kickboxing training/sparring and never had any issues with cramps/pumps but still have gotten a performance boost. I’ve also used about the same 5-10mg pre weights and got a nasty pump, for me it’s what I use it for. Dbol have a special place for me because it always works.
I dose Dbol low (5-10mg) so idk if I would get more sides if I dose higher but I have no interest to dose it higher since I get what I need from low doses. I would pulse low dose Dbol forever if I could.

I’m using Tbol now, only 1 week in so nothing to report. If you guys are interested I can let you guys know how it turns out, I still do quite a bit of fight training.

I love Dbol, gives a great mood lift for me. I’ve never had smaller than 10mg caps, and taking one of those was great for acute preWO use. But even that the pumps seemed counterproductive, and 20mg oral or injectable - forget about it. I have to dose it post training if I am using it generally because the pumps are too insane. I take ~20mg on meet days for the mood, and because I’m only doing max singles then, besides my warmup/activation stuff.

So 5-10mg may be plausible. But I don’t see the benefit over Tbol, unless he already had little Dbol tabs and had ran out of Tbol.

Var doesn’t give that instant pre workout effect and can take awhile to “kick in”, idk some guys claim it does but I’m not sure they actually got real Var.
Var is only safe in therapeutic doses, in performance doses Var is as harsh as anything else (more/less).

I’m using Tbol now, only 1 week in so nothing to report. On paper that’s the drug for performance, I guess I find out soon.

I don’t get any noticeable buzz or see any number difference with Var preWO ever either, but my wife does feel it. Which as a women androgens are obviously radically stronger, but I have heard of men on grams of gear claiming 10mg of Var they feel so maybe it’s also just very individual.

 

[jim2509]

Var doesn’t give that instant pre workout effect and can take awhile to “kick in”, idk some guys claim it does but I’m not sure they actually got real Var.
Var is only safe in therapeutic doses, in performance doses Var is as harsh as anything else (more/less).

I’m using Tbol now, only 1 week in so nothing to report. On paper that’s the drug for performance, I guess I find out soon.

Interesting. Seems very individual when it comes to effectiveness in a pre workout setting. Seems some swear by crushing it up and using it sublingual bypassing 2 passes of the liver and getting good pumps, CNS and endurance. But like you say at higher doses its gonna bring same issues as another oral. I'm interested to see how you get on with Tbol as that's an option for me.

 

[BBiceps]

Interesting. Seems very individual when it comes to effectiveness in a pre workout setting. Seems some swear by crushing it up and using it sublingual bypassing 2 passes of the liver and getting good pumps, CNS and endurance. But like you say at higher doses its gonna bring same issues as another oral. I'm interested to see how you get on with Tbol as that's an option for me.

Just because you crush a tab of Var it won’t bypass the liver or give you different results than taking it regularly, you might absorb the Var faster doing that way but it will still strain the liver and the results will be the same regardless. Var are known to give good pump, strength and since higher red blood count your endurance might get better but it’s no endurance drug. The longer you let the drug build up the better the results. Same with Dbol, Dbol seem to give more pre workout boost though but it shines when it have had time to build up. It’s a few other drugs that give a pre workout boost but they also come with massive pump/cramps/sides.

 

[jim2509]

Just because you crush a tab of Var it won’t bypass the liver or give you different results than taking it regularly, you might absorb the Var faster doing that way but it will still strain the liver and the results will be the same regardless. Var are known to give good pump, strength and since higher red blood count your endurance might get better but it’s no endurance drug. The longer you let the drug build up the better the results. Same with Dbol, Dbol seem to give more pre workout boost though but it shines when it have had time to build up. It’s a few other drugs that give a pre workout boost but they also come with massive pump/cramps/sides.

Thanks for the detail. Have you used Tbol? Obviously that was literally designed for sports albeit I think I read somewhere the East Germans were running it between 3mg -10mg and were cleaning up the medals.

 

[Hyde]

Thanks for the detail. Have you used Tbol? Obviously that was literally designed for sports albeit I think I read somewhere the East Germans were running it between 3mg -10mg and were cleaning up the medals.

Yeah, maybe some of the women!

The Bulgarian weightlifting men’s team was running like 80-130mg Dbol per day for select lifters when peaking for the Olympics. Bottles and bottles of 5mg tabs. Plus some small amount of Deca on top.

 

[jim2509]

Yeah, maybe some of the women!

The Bulgarian weightlifting men’s team was running like 80-130mg Dbol per day for select lifters when peaking for the Olympics. Bottles and bottles of 5mg tabs. Plus some small amount of Deca on top.

Yeah I bet they were for that sport. I was thinking more of the cardio/running doses. Can imagine shin pumps at higher dosages would be horrendous.

 

[BBiceps]

Thanks for the detail. Have you used Tbol? Obviously that was literally designed for sports albeit I think I read somewhere the East Germans were running it between 3mg -10mg and were cleaning up the medals.

I just started Tbol, I’m just 1 week in so nothing major to report, I’m running 50mg ed and I’m planning on finishing with 100mg. 3–10mg is way too low for a man.

 

[jim2509]

I just started Tbol, I’m just 1 week in so nothing major to report, I’m running 50mg ed and I’m planning on finishing with 100mg. 3–10mg is way too low for a man.

That's good to hear. Can you keep me updated on how it goes. I might be looking at 20 mg a day for 6 weeks. It's that or var. I have both so it's probably splitting hairs I don't know?

 

[BBiceps]

That's good to hear. Can you keep me updated on how it goes. I might be looking at 20 mg a day for 6 weeks. It's that or var. I have both so it's probably splitting hairs I don't know?

I will, it almost been 2 weeks and I think I got a bump in strength.
If you have both you could run them together, Anavar is a DHT and Tbol a test derivative so they would work in different ways, it could be an idea if you planing to running them that low.

 

[jim2509]

I will, it almost been 2 weeks and I think I got a bump in strength.
If you have both you could run them together, Anavar is a DHT and Tbol a test derivative so they would work in different ways, it could be an idea if you planing to running them that low.

Cheers mate..I did consider that option of both. I know there's no escaping the hit to lipids but I'm trying to minimise that whilst getting a little boost for my current training program which is more tailored to combat sports with all the usual thrown in - strength and conditioning, cardio etc. Look forward to hearing how you get on.

 

[jim2509]

Just an update. So I decided on Tbol instead of anavar on top of my trt (125mg) as i am concentrating more on stamina/endurance than aesthetics. To be on the safe side I today started with 10mg taken sublingually 45 mins before workout. Was on Day 3 of a mixed cardio/boxing workout so muscles weren't 100% recovered from previous 2 days.

All I can say is...wow! My my energy/drive was ramped up, felt like I could keep going, pumped and by the end of the workout. I felt almost euphoric and didn't want to stop. Now I've used Sarms alot over the years and dbol years ago and some andros. This blew them all out of the water....even at 10mg. Now I know people will say 'Ah its probably placebo' ....nope. I haven't seen a noticeable effect like that with previous items I've used.

Now I'm considering just using it as a pre workout only as it has an apparent 16 hour half life and to limit sides.

 

[BBiceps]

Just an update. So I decided on Tbol instead of anavar on top of my trt (125mg) as i am concentrating more on stamina/endurance than aesthetics. To be on the safe side I today started with 10mg taken sublingually 45 mins before workout. Was on Day 3 of a mixed cardio/boxing workout so muscles weren't 100% recovered from previous 2 days.

All I can say is...wow! My my energy/drive was ramped up, felt like I could keep going, pumped and by the end of the workout. I felt almost euphoric and didn't want to stop. Now I've used Sarms alot over the years and dbol years ago and some andros. This blew them all out of the water....even at 10mg. Now I know people will say 'Ah its probably placebo' ....nope. I haven't seen a noticeable effect like that with previous items I've used.

Now I'm considering just using it as a pre workout only as it has an apparent 16 hour half life and to limit sides.

That’s 100% placebo but good for you, because even if it is placebo it worked for you. Tbol has a long half life so on paper it’s not a pre workout drug but dose it the way it works the best for you.

Btw what’s your size?

I’m 6’1, 239, and on week 3 @75mg ed and I’m seeing a lot of body changes but haven’t got much performance enhancing yet.

 

[jim2509]

That’s 100% placebo but good for you, because even if it is placebo it worked for you. Tbol has a long half life so on paper it’s not a pre workout drug but dose it the way it works the best for you.

Btw what’s your size?

I’m 6’1, 239, and on week 3 @75mg ed and I’m seeing a lot of body changes but haven’t got much performance enhancing yet.

I don't think it was as my work rate was way above normal, but win win like you say.

5'11, 185, 49 years old. If it was just placebo what do you think the effects time is. Anavar allegedly works pre workout although the half life is alot shorter.

 

[BBiceps]

I don't think it was as my work rate was way above normal, but win win like you say.

5'11, 185, 49 years old. If it was just placebo what do you think the effects time is. Anavar allegedly works pre workout although the half life is alot shorter.

The drug starting to work when you start to take it but you probably won’t see any real results until after a week or 2. Anavar is on paper the same, most ppl do not get a pre workout boost from Anavar. This thread is probably one of the first times I heard someone claim it and I have trained with a lot of different ppl that used Anavar from pro MMA athletes to pro bodybuilders. Placebo is a powerful thing

I like Tbol so far, I did get a little clarity from it the 2 first weeks but it seems to have gone away but I see body changes almost daily now and I have got a little stronger.

 

[jim2509]

The drug starting to work when you start to take it but you probably won’t see any real results until after a week or 2. Anavar is on paper the same, most ppl do not get a pre workout boost from Anavar. This thread is probably one of the first times I heard someone claim it and I have trained with a lot of different ppl that used Anavar from pro MMA athletes to pro bodybuilders. Placebo is a powerful thing

I like Tbol so far, I did get a little clarity from it the 2 first weeks but it seems to have gone away but I see body changes almost daily now and I have got a little stronger.

That's interesting info. As I've only used Dbol, old school prohormones and sarms and never Tbol or Anavar let alone as a preworkout...it would be stupid to dismiss what you say. I might just take 20mg a day then and stop the trial and error and save myself the hassle. There's alot of people on YT however and some other forums who swear by Anavar sublingually avoiding 2 passes of liver and having effects within an hour or so. I wonder if anyone else on the forum that's had any experience of this? Thanks for the replies though mate.

 

[BBiceps]

That's interesting info. As I've only used Dbol, old school prohormones and sarms and never Tbol or Anavar let alone as a preworkout...it would be stupid to dismiss what you say. I might just take 20mg a day then and stop the trial and error and save myself the hassle. There's alot of people on YT however and some other forums who swear by Anavar sublingually avoiding 2 passes of liver and having effects within an hour or so. I wonder if anyone else on the forum that's had any experience of this? Thanks for the replies though mate.

Are you sure it’s Anavar and not Anadrol? Anadrol is a more powerful drug with shorter half life.

Any drug will work better if taken every day, preferably at the same time over an extended period.

I know it’s scary in the beginning and you hope that you can get away from different side effects if you pulse or use a small amount but you will realize that the drug works the best when it used as it supposed to be used. Saying that, always start with the lowest effective dose you can get away with, but don’t waste a drug with going too low, the sides will catch up to you either way. Be smart.

 

[jim2509]

Are you sure it’s Anavar and not Anadrol? Anadrol is a more powerful drug with shorter half life.

Any drug will work better if taken every day, preferably at the same time over an extended period.

I know it’s scary in the beginning and you hope that you can get away from different side effects if you pulse or use a small amount but you will realize that the drug works the best when it used as it supposed to be used. Saying that, always start with the lowest effective dose you can get away with, but don’t waste a drug with going too low, the sides will catch up to you either way. Be smart.

Nope definitely Anavar. Vigorous Steve and quite a few others have talked about Var's use as an effective pre workout and to minimalise side effects.

I'll stick with the low dose Tbol though and run it daily and see how I get on. Cheers mate.

 

[Hyde]

I know it’s scary in the beginning and you hope that you can get away from different side effects if you pulse or use a small amount but you will realize that the drug works the best when it used as it supposed to be used. Saying that, always start with the lowest effective dose you can get away with, but don’t waste a drug with going too low, the sides will catch up to you either way. Be smart.

I agree with your last paragraph, but consider there are desired effects for some users beyond significant contribution to hypertrophy.

I think that is the primary consideration here: is hypertrophy even particularly desired? If so, take the Tbol daily and take enough to promote that. 10mg some days of the week isn’t going to cut it, but it will support the workouts at a cellular level and it’s not only placebo. Is it a lot? Definitely not compared to taking 50mg Var daily for weeks on end, but it’s not nothing.

I mean just taking a simple 300mg cap of alphaGPC preWO literally potentiates the ability to focus and express maximal strength - I don’t see how you think 10mg of Var or Tbol wouldn’t. I do understand how you would think it’s a waste though.

 

[Stacks1]

In my opinion, I don't think there is even any question that tbol is the superior oral to var for this situation. It won't just significantly help with strength but will make a noticeable difference in stamina.

 

[BBiceps]

I mean just taking a simple 300mg cap of alphaGPC preWO literally potentiates the ability to focus and express maximal strength - I don’t see how you think 10mg of Var or Tbol wouldn’t. I do understand how you would think it’s a waste though.

This will have a few different answers. I think you would get more out of 1 AlphaGPC 300mg capsule pre workout than 10mg Var or Tbol pre workout but, taking 10mg Var or Tbol ed for a few weeks will give better results than 300mg AlphaGPC ed for weeks. Taking 10mg Var or Tbol for weeks is a waste though

I do think you get more out of a good pre workout drink than Var or Tbol, unless it have built up over a period of time.

 

[jim2509]

In my opinion, I don't think there is even any question that tbol is the superior oral to var for this situation. It won't just significantly help with strength but will make a noticeable difference in stamina.

This is what I felt I experienced when I took 10mg sublingually pre workout on Monday. More drive/focus and stamina.

 

[jim2509]

I agree with your last paragraph, but consider there are desired effects for some users beyond significant contribution to hypertrophy.

I think that is the primary consideration here: is hypertrophy even particularly desired? If so, take the Tbol daily and take enough to promote that. 10mg some days of the week isn’t going to cut it, but it will support the workouts at a cellular level and it’s not only placebo. Is it a lot? Definitely not compared to taking 50mg Var daily for weeks on end, but it’s not nothing.

I mean just taking a simple 300mg cap of alphaGPC preWO literally potentiates the ability to focus and express maximal strength - I don’t see how you think 10mg of Var or Tbol wouldn’t. I do understand how you would think it’s a waste though.

I think this is what I was experiencing Hyde and what I'm adding Tbol for. I'm not looking at significant hypertrophy, but more for a kick tailored to my Boxing/cardio/ forthcoming fitness test training.

 

[jim2509]

This will have a few different answers. I think you would get more out of 1 AlphaGPC 300mg capsule pre workout than 10mg Var or Tbol pre workout but, taking 10mg Var or Tbol ed for a few weeks will give better results than 300mg AlphaGPC ed for weeks. Taking 10mg Var or Tbol for weeks is a waste though

I do think you get more out of a good pre workout drink than Var or Tbol, unless it have built up over a period of time.

Interesting. I'll have a look at Alpha GPC. It was the East German low dose range that appealed to me for the stamina sports increase.

I probably should of asked this earlier by would just increasing my trt dose be better/after and illicit similar better stamina/endurance. Obviously sports competitors get caught straight away in testing so that's why they probably avoided it?

Only other thing of note is that I've trained 4 x days back to back of moderate to intense cardio/strength & conditioning and would normally be in the bin by now with aches/stiffness and tired. Today I feel like I can go again and at 49 with my miles on the clock/wear and tear....believe me that's not the norm so I have to consider the low dose tbol has done something perhaps.

 

[BBiceps]

Interesting. I'll have a look at Alpha GPC. It was the East German low dose range that appealed to me for the stamina sports increase.

I probably should of asked this earlier by would just increasing my trt dose be better/after and illicit similar better stamina/endurance. Obviously sports competitors get caught straight away in testing so that's why they probably avoided it?

Only other thing of note is that I've trained 4 x days back to back of moderate to intense cardio/strength & conditioning and would normally be in the bin by now with aches/stiffness and tired. Today I feel like I can go again and at 49 with my miles on the clock/wear and tear....believe me that's not the norm so I have to consider the low dose tbol has done something perhaps.

AlphaGPC is nothing special, I think it was just @Hyde trying to say that even that do something and that 10mg Var or Tbol should do the same.

If you feel/think it’ll do something, keep doing it because even if it’s placebo it works for you.

I could be completely wrong, maybe Alphagpc and low dose Var/Tbol is where the magic happens and I am the one that’s missing out…

I think I should be way stronger than I am so the odds is that I’m the one that doing everything wrong…

 

[Hyde]

Interesting. I'll have a look at Alpha GPC. It was the East German low dose range that appealed to me for the stamina sports increase.

I probably should of asked this earlier by would just increasing my trt dose be better/after and illicit similar better stamina/endurance. Obviously sports competitors get caught straight away in testing so that's why they probably avoided it?

I really would look at AlphaGPC - NOW Foods has excellent capsules. A lot of AlphaGPC you see listed in energy drinks/preWO blends is only 50% potency, so “300mg” is really just 150mg. But NOW’s is full purity, and 1-2 caps of those are worth your time!

I am NOT a fighter, but Alex Kikel had gotten into that a lot and been doing PEDs for them by the end of his podcasting, and that was his assertion. Get the test up so estrogen is sufficient for joint health/collagen synthesis, rbc/crit is high normal for endurance, safest profile too. Then if you need even more pop than say 180-250 test, add a little tbol for a while. For when you don’t need more estrogen or RBC.

But you have to keep drugs low enough that it is helping, not hurting. Excess estrogen is going to cause water retention, winding, pumps, and overly thick blood will also make you tired. So those are the main limiters for actual test, and things like nandrolone.

Something like ~200 test and 20mg Tbol, or 100mg nandrolone/wk.

AlphaGPC is nothing special, I think it was just @Hyde trying to say that even that do something and that 10mg Var or Tbol should do the same.

If you feel/think it’ll do something, keep doing it because even if it’s placebo it works for you.

I could be completely wrong, maybe Alphagpc and low dose Var/Tbol is where the magic happens and I am the one that’s missing out…

I think I should be way stronger than I am so the odds is that I’m the one that doing everything wrong…

AlphaGPC won’t directly do anything for the physique, but it can help you lift heavier weights. Choline is probably the #1 sports supplement I recommend serious lifters after caffeine - even before creatine, which is basically all positives & helps prevent dementia & improve motor pattern learning.

 

[jim2509]

I really would look at AlphaGPC - NOW Foods has excellent capsules. A lot of AlphaGPC you see listed in energy drinks/preWO blends is only 50% potency, so “300mg” is really just 150mg. But NOW’s is full purity, and 1-2 caps of those are worth your time!

I am NOT a fighter, but Alex Kikel had gotten into that a lot and been doing PEDs for them by the end of his podcasting, and that was his assertion. Get the test up so estrogen is sufficient for joint health/collagen synthesis, rbc/crit is high normal for endurance, safest profile too. Then if you need even more pop than say 180-250 test, add a little tbol for a while. For when you don’t need more estrogen or RBC.

But you have to keep drugs low enough that it is helping, not hurting. Excess estrogen is going to cause water retention, winding, pumps, and overly thick blood will also make you tired. So those are the main limiters for actual test, and things like nandrolone.

Something like ~200 test and 20mg Tbol, or 100mg nandrolone/wk.



AlphaGPC won’t directly do anything for the physique, but it can help you lift heavier weights. Choline is probably the #1 sports supplement I recommend serious lifters after caffeine - even before creatine, which is basically all positives & helps prevent dementia & improve motor pattern learning.

Lots of great info there thanks Hyde I'll look into Alex Kikel and maybe add NOW Alpha GPC and see how i respond. It may be what I'm looking for rather than low dose orals.

 

[jim2509]

AlphaGPC is nothing special, I think it was just @Hyde trying to say that even that do something and that 10mg Var or Tbol should do the same.

If you feel/think it’ll do something, keep doing it because even if it’s placebo it works for you.

I could be completely wrong, maybe Alphagpc and low dose Var/Tbol is where the magic happens and I am the one that’s missing out…

I think I should be way stronger than I am so the odds is that I’m the one that doing everything wrong…

Thanks for the replies mate and all the quality advice and discussion. Some really good pointers and given me something to think about.