Dose dependent effects of UltraHard (androsterone/epiandrosterone) on plasma DHT 2 of 2

Nequals1

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Continued from the previous post.

Conclusions and Implications

Phase 1:

Daily application of 10 p/d UH resulted in severe skin irritation that required the study be stopped. Splitting the dose into two applications of 5 pumps 6h apart did not resolve the irritation. It is possible that this split dose would not lead to severe irritation if the study was started using this paradigm originally. Other users of UH report no such problems, or that OTC moisturizer is sufficient to address dry and irritated skin. Nonetheless, this rat suffered severe dermatitis requiring the application of prescription strength cortisone cream for several days.

Despite the early halt to this study, some results from phase 1 were obtained. Most notably, was a decrease in erection frequency and hardness. While somewhat disappointing, this decrease was not accompanied by a reduction in libido. Quite the opposite, libido was enhanced significantly using 10 p/d compared to baseline or to 5 p/d. As an aside, intimacy was positively impacted with increased overall satisfaction by both parties involved. The same can be said for solo performances in which the subject was similarly eager to engage in and thoroughly satisfied with the overall experience and outcome.

Another notable observation from phase 1 was an improvement in the feeling of alpha-maleness reported by the subject. This is subjective quality is defined by this investigator by feelings of (i) being able to accomplish any task; (ii) willingness and ability to push physical limits in the gym, (iii) greater control over emotional responses, and (iv) willingness and ability to exert opinion/authority/dominance in a range of social situations and environments. This factor was also measured when subject received the standard dose of UH (5 p/d) but was more pronounced when UH was administered at twice the daily dose (10 p/d).

Finally, it is worthwhile to note that body hair was seen to have increased in length. While specific measurements of length and density were not made, several indirect assessments suggest that 10 p/d UH increased the overall length of pubic hair in the groin and under the arms. There appeared to be less of an effect of UH on chest and abdominal hair length, and little or no effect on arm or leg hair. As far as mechanism, we did not observe an increase in density of hair follicles resulting from new follicles or from the activation of previously dormant follicles. Rather, it appears that the hairs grew longer and at a faster rate. This was most observed in the facial and pubic regions. Collectively these observations prompt the hypothesis that UH may increase the period of anagen growth or delay the onset of the catagen phase of hair loss. It is important to note that there were no signs of hear loss from the head.These suggestions should be taken lightly as they are based on purely observational qualitative data and not hard measurements. However, for those interested in using UH to improve overall virility, this observation combined with the positive effects on alpha-like behaviors, supports further exploration.


Phase 2:

The observational secondary endpoints for phase 2 were similar to phase 1 and will not be repeated here.

Application of 10 p/d UH for 14d increased plasma levels of DHT by almost 3x over baseline, but this was equivalent to the levels achieved overall with only 5 p/d (92 vs 95 ng/dL). This lack of a dose-dependent effect may be explained by one or more of the following three mechanisms:
  • A daily dose of 5 p/d represents the maximal dose of UH that can be absorbed when applied to the skin of the upper chest, shoulders, traps, inner bicep and axillae. Additional pumps applied at the same time or 6h later do not appear to be able to surmount this maximal absorption. Only changing the permeability of the skin or the carrier in UH will overcome this limitation.
  • The conversion of the androsterone and epiandrosterone into DHT is at least a two-step enzymatic processes (requiring 17-b-HSD and AKR1C4 or AKR1C2) . Either one of these necessary enzymes may be saturated at the 5 p/d dose, leading to a maximal plasma level of 95 ng/dL DHT at steady state regardless of the amount of substrate provided.
  • Plasma DHT is measured at steady state. Consequently, the peak and trough levels of DHT resulting from the application of 5 or 10 p/d are not captured. Only the steady state plasma levels at a single time-point are measured after more than 7 days of dosing. A 10 p/d dose may elicit a max plasma level or exposure that is indeed higher than 5 p/d but that data is not captured here.
  • Finally, as stated previously, plasma DHT may not be reflective of tissue DHT. In this case, UH is applied to the upper chest, shoulders and arms. Samples of DHT and UH in these tissues taken at a series of timepoint immediately following application and lasting for at least 24h would be more informative of the levels of DHT produced in target tissues (Skin, skeletal muscle) at a given dose of UH. Moreover, the desired effects of UH on overall virility and muscle mass are not necessarily dictated by plasma DHT.
Despite the lack of a dose-effect on plasma DHT, there were clear effects on other hormones and on general sexual health and well-being. Increases in LH and FSH suggest that administration of UH activates the HPA, although this is somewhat paradoxical as one would expect higher levels of DHT to negatively feedback on this system to reduce FSH and LH production. Because of modest decreases in T, Free T and E, it is possible that the effects on FSH and LH reflect a response to the decrease in endogenous sex hormones rather than a response to the UH-dependent DHT. While possible, investigation into this effect is beyond the scope of this research effort. Likewise, the physiological effect size of these changes is unknown as all parameters remained within normal range. It is entirely plausible that none of these changes are sizeable enough to influence normal function.

In conclusion, UH does not yield a dose-dependent increase in plasma DHT when administered at more than 5 pumps per day. The most likely explanation for this is lack of a dose effect is saturation of the absorption of UH or the enzymes converting androsterone and epiandroseterone to DHT. Although plasma levels did not increase beyond those achieved at 5 p/d, 10 p/d increased several subjective criteria monitored including libido, overall alpha-maleness, and body hair. The lack of an effect on plasma DHT with a concomitant increase in these other factors suggest that the overall benefit of UH may depend on local tissue levels or overall exposure rather than those at steady state. One additional factor to consider may be time. The duration of this study was originally planned for 28d. It was necessarily extended to 69d because of the irritation caused by the high dose of UH. When the study was restarted, 10 pumps were applied for 14d before DHT was measured. The total duration of UH exposure was 38d at 10 pumps/day, almost 3x longer in duration that the previous study. Correcting for dose and duration, 10 p/d for 38d yields ~10x the amount of UH administered compared to 5 p/d for 14d. Thus, these secondary endpoints may reflect a desirable outcome that is only achieved with a longer duration of exposure at a higher dose. Regardless, UH continues to be a reliable supplement for increasing DHT levels naturally.
 
Smont

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Only thing I wanted to input here was that you said increasing dht levels naturally. But androsterone and epiandro are not natural. Other then that, 👍
 
xR1pp3Rx

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Only thing I wanted to input here was that you said increasing dht levels naturally. But androsterone and epiandro are not natural. Other then that, 👍
I think he means natty in the sense that it's a DHEA analog with no activity without conversion. you ingest it and the body must naturally convert it into your target hormone for it to do anything. a Pro Hormone in the truest sense
 

Nequals1

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Only thing I wanted to input here was that you said increasing dht levels naturally. But androsterone and epiandro are not natural. Other then that, 👍
Thanks @Smont. You’re probably right that “naturally” was not the best word choice. My meaning was that the andro and epiandro are testosterone precursors that are wnsogwnously produced by the body. That is to say that they are distinct from modified testosterone that are not made by the body through biochemical processes. Of course, I should have known that in this forum “naturally or natty” has a much more specific meaning. Thanks for the feedback back. I’ll keep that in mind for the next post.
 
Smont

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Thanks @Smont. You’re probably right that “naturally” was not the best word choice. My meaning was that the andro and epiandro are testosterone precursors that are wnsogwnously produced by the body. That is to say that they are distinct from modified testosterone that are not made by the body through biochemical processes. Of course, I should have known that in this forum “naturally or natty” has a much more specific meaning. Thanks for the feedback back. I’ll keep that in mind for the next post.
Ok that makes sense, and your right, the reason I brought it up was that on a forum like this one, someone might "probably will" read the word natural and assume that these things are natty supplements. I don't want to derail the thread tho so please continue.

We get a lot of members thar come here asking about dht and if it can make them more masculine or grow a beard. I can't think of who they are by there profile names off top but hopefully some of them find there way here.
 
Smont

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I'm also wondering if the 10 pumps causing weaker/infrequent erections was just a temporary result from hormones changing? Sometimes on a steroid cycle IL notice stuff like that during the first 2 weeks or so while the hormones are building up, but once I get to, or close to peak concentrations (not sure if I'm wording this correctly) but once everything kinda levels out I'm GTG
 
Smont

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@Lumalux do yiu remember who was looking for this type of information? I remember seeing you in some of the dht threads
 
xR1pp3Rx

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I'm also wondering if the 10 pumps causing weaker/infrequent erections was just a temporary result from hormones changing? Sometimes on a steroid cycle IL notice stuff like that during the first 2 weeks or so while the hormones are building up, but once I get to, or close to peak concentrations (not sure if I'm wording this correctly) but once everything kinda levels out I'm GTG
maybe its the androsterone... epi give me rock hardies
 
Smont

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I'm thinking it doesn't have as much to do with the compounds as it does with just being hormonal fluctuations?
 
Smont

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of course its a rather small number of participants in this study :ROFLMAO:
Sample pool of 1 lol, yes we need to take it with a grain of salt. It's more of a personal experience then a study. But I must say, he presents it very well👌.

I've read "legit" published studies that were performed worse then this. I think a few ppl around here can use this as a piece of information while there putting there puzzles together
 

Nequals1

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Sample pool of 1 lol, yes we need to take it with a grain of salt. It's more of a personal experience then a study. But I must say, he presents it very well👌.

I've read "legit" published studies that were performed worse then this. I think a few ppl around here can use this as a piece of information while there putting there puzzles together
You’re spot on with the sample size issue. With only one subject, it’s impossible to generalize to the larger population. Statistical analysis is similarly out of the question. I’m putting it here so perhaps other members of the forum can benefit from the information. In addition, I think it is nice to see hard data that supports the claims of a supplement.

I’m not sure if the erection frequency was indicative of anything. It could be as you suggest, an effect of the change in hormone homeostasis. But also keep in mind, that it’s a self-assessment. That is one of the weakest forms of data collection. I wis I had the budget to run skin and muscle biopsies and a more detailed assessment of exposure over time. There are also some very cool digital image tools for measuring hair growth/density etc, and of course strain gauges that can measure pressure in the penis. But they are expensive, and this is a hobby. So unless IF wants to shell out some serious research dough, we will have to build the knowledge base with what we have.
 
Lumalux

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Ok that makes sense, and your right, the reason I brought it up was that on a forum like this one, someone might "probably will" read the word natural and assume that these things are natty supplements. I don't want to derail the thread tho so please continue.

We get a lot of members thar come here asking about dht and if it can make them more masculine or grow a beard. I can't think of who they are by there profile names off top but hopefully some of them find there way here.
I'm one of them.
 
hercules_22

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Gotta apply that UH to the cajones for maximum adsorption. Once the 🔥 stops you def feel the increase in DHT.
 

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