Fats post workout, how serious is it?

FoxHound

FoxHound

New member
Dang! I just realized ive been doing it wrong lol... I just learned that fats post workout is not good because it slows digestion down, and this not good because of the anabolic window, etc.

My fav meal/go2 post workout is steak fajitas, and you gotta put avocado slices in your fajitas! I also love a drizzle of avocado oil on my veggies.

So I was wondering, how long post workout should you wait before consuming fats? What if I take a post workout shake immediately after training, then wait about an hour after to have dinner/fats, is this ok?

Thanks in advance for your advice!
 
So in my opinion this depends on how solid your entire peri-workout nutrition is. Its also dependent on how hard you train. Personally I like to stick to these basics when it comes to post workout.

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I wouldn’t be that concerned. Are you eating before working out? If so, less need for nutrients afterward. Are you using a shake post workout? That would make it even more negligible. Even still, I can’t imagine it would make that much difference. The anabolic window thing is much less important than people used to say. Total nutrition throughout the day has a significantly greater impact on results.
 
For maximum results when it comes to building muscle and burning fat you don't want fats with your pre and post workout meals.

With that said, if your goal is to be a bodybuilder or the best physique athlete you can be, then it's very important. We want amino acids and glycogen flooding our muscles around the workouts. Fats will blunt the insulin response and slow the uptake of nutrients into the muscles.


If you just more like the rest of us who want to work out look good be strong and fit it's not as important. Currently I'm training for strength and specifically bench press, I'm not super concerned about overall physique goals at the moment so it's not as important to me right now as it normally would be.

But having fat especially a large amounts of fat with your post workout meal does leave a little bit on the table.

@Mathb33 can give you a better explanation for a physique competitor and why stats are the enemy around the workout for certain people in certain situations
 
Smont said:
For maximum results when it comes to building muscle and burning fat you don't want fats with your pre and post workout meals.

With that said, if your goal is to be a bodybuilder or the best physique athlete you can be, then it's very important. We want amino acids and glycogen flooding our muscles around the workouts. Fats will blunt the insulin response and slow the uptake of nutrients into the muscles.


If you just more like the rest of us who want to work out look good be strong and fit it's not as important. Currently I'm training for strength and specifically bench press, I'm not super concerned about overall physique goals at the moment so it's not as important to me right now as it normally would be.

But having fat especially a large amounts of fat with your post workout meal does leave a little bit on the table.

@Mathb33 can give you a better explanation for a physique competitor and why stats are the enemy around the workout for certain people in certain situations
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So I consider myself a body builder, but i have no interest in competing, but i do want to maximize results as I am natural.
 
Jeremyk1 said:
I wouldn’t be that concerned. Are you eating before working out? If so, less need for nutrients afterward. Are you using a shake post workout? That would make it even more negligible. Even still, I can’t imagine it would make that much difference. The anabolic window thing is much less important than people used to say. Total nutrition throughout the day has a significantly greater impact on results.
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Yes, i always slam a post workout shake, then prepare dinner, so ill end up eating a full meal about an hr and a half to 2 hrs post workout.
 
FoxHound said:
So I consider myself a body builder, but i have no interest in competing, but i do want to maximize results as I am natural.
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Well, about 99% of bodybuilders avoid fats around the workout. So if I were you I would follow suit.

John Meadows use to say he liked ppl to get a little fat with there pre workout meals but little to no fats post.

If your a natural bodybuilder then the most anabolic thing you're ever going to put into your body is food, there are no supplements or anything that will come remotely close to replacing food if you're natural, honestly even if you're enhanced food is still King. But my point is as a natural bodybuilder you have limited playing cards so if avoiding fats around the workout window equals even the slightest bit more gains I would be doing it.
 
InBat47 said:
This. I'd wager many other variables would be more important to worry about before this. Anecdotally I've never had any major issues with fats in my postworkout meal.
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I don't think anybody has an issue with fat during their post-workout meal, but the thing we're talking about here isn't about if you have issues with fat it's about making the most progress possible.

If your goal is to build muscle and burn fat then to make the most progress possible you eliminate fat from the post workout meal and get your insulin and amino Spike
 
Generally speaking you would absolutely want to avoid fats post workout simply for the fact that you need your nutrients to absorb as fast as possible allowing you to get to that second post workout meal with an empty stomach because that pre workout meal went quickly where it’s supposed to… the muscles. Simple high glycemic carbs like cereals are a good exemple of what’s great post workout.

there is a few exceptions to where some fats would be needed post workout but they’re very specific to certain spots in cutting phases etc or if you were unlucky enough that your last meal was your post workout meal I suppose.

pre workout meals I would agree that a conservative amount of fat can be a good idea especially for people who absorb nutrient rather quickly which would allow them for better energy throughout their workout. Or people who don’t use intra drinks for exemple. But I’m talking 7-10g of fats not 20-25g that’s going to be extremely counter productive at that point imo. Then again if your first meal was your pre workout meal I wouldn’t give someone fats in it because I would want it on asap I would simply suggest an intra drink for continuous energy throughout the workout. There’s so many factors to it and what people need to realise is it’s different for everybody. Personally my coach has me eating 120g of carbs + 8g of fats pre workout AND 50g during the workout because my metabolism is so fast I need that energy to keep a certain level of intensity. For my coach… he’s got 0 fats pre workout because he doesn’t digest nearly as fast as me and his pre workout won’t be as large even tho we both eat 5500 calories a day because he won’t process it well pre workout and it’ll actually hurt his performance. He’s going to have 0 fats before the gym and fats on all meals after except POST.
while I have fats every meal except POST because of my metabolism.
 
Im glad we had this convo, this has been insightful! Thanks for the advice! This is a great forum to learn all bb science.
 
See, I don’t worry about speed of nutrients anymore. There’s evidence that glycogen can fully replenish within 24 hours even with a lower carbohydrate diet. Your body doesn’t want to be depleted of energy, it’ll get filled.

It’s a similar story for protein. Yes, fast proteins are good for spiking protein synthesis, but total muscle built comes from balancing synthesis with decreasing muscle breakdown. I know a few years ago, a lot of people made a big deal about the research showing superior results from combining whey with casein versus whey alone.

Then if you want to look specifically at fats, Dr. Mauro DiPasquale talked about how if you avoid carbohydrates post workout and consume lots of protein and fat, you can actually increase mTOR signaling. Now to me, this doesn’t mean more muscle built, it’s likely just to compensate for the lack of carbs, but it shouldn’t hurt your gains to the extent some people think.

All that said, on a personal note, I have trouble eating a lot after really intense workouts, so easy digestion is a focus just so I can get as many calories as possible. Just depends I guess.
 
imo the study that shows egg white + yolk is more anabolic than just white debunks this. common sense is telling me it probably depends on the fat source. animal sourced fats contain a lot of nutrients. I'd bet most plant fats like canola oil are bad tho.
 
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InBat47 said:
FWIW I tend to limit fats in the pre and post window for most individuals and for my self to an extent, but a lot of that also comes with balancing tolerances, schedules, goals, etc. OP in this thread is having a post workout shake immediately then a whole food meal with fats a couple hours later, which seems sound enough to me. Maybe if OP was some hardcore pro bodybuilder then MAYBE it might make sense to get that strict.

Also another FWIW for anyone interested in potential science on this stuff it is pretty messy and not nearly as cut and dry as people like to make it. Human physiological processes aren't always simple and have lots of interplay. Pretty surprised it has been nearly 10 years since this Invalid Link Removed Honestly thought we'd have moved past this a bit more in this realm.

More research that is maybe pertinent:
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So I get where you are coming from, especially as anecdotally lots of higher level competitors and sources may tend to go for lower fat around workouts. I just don't think it is that simple and not as cut and dry for "making the most progress possible". What is too much fat, when is the cut off around a workout exactly, does it depend on how many previous meals they have had yet, what are their total calories, are we cutting/bulking/maintaing, etc. Lots to play with.

Maybe adding extra hormones and drugs change this equation and that would be potentially a bit past my realm, but for most people wanting to build muscle and look better I just don't think we need to go overboard thinking about it.



Agreed. I am sure we will come back full circle to it again though. We swung the pendulum from trying to get the worlds fastest protein and carbs immediately (the hydro whey and all the crazy carb fads) to then suddenly no we need mixed protein sources post and sure we'll swing back to fast (or maybe we already have again?). Just depends on who is trying to sell what next. :)
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2 hours later isint the post workout meal in my opinion. I don't see anything wrong with eating fat 2 hours later.

And no disrespect but I'm not reading any of the links for the food studies because all the studies about food and nutrition change regularly year to year I have no faith at all in any studies related to nutrition unless it's held up for more than 10 years solid.

We all have to remember something, studies are great but they're just a tiny piece of evidence that points in a direction. For any study that someone finds that says product a is good and product B is bad there will be another study that says product B is good and product a is bad.

If you put that all aside for a minute, I agree with what you said a post-workout shake and then a solid meal 2 hours later there's nothing wrong with that. When I talk about that post workout meal I would be having mine about 20 minutes after my workout and it would be something like chicken and rice and I wouldn't be having a shake because I prefer real food over shakes any day. Put in a scenario where I couldn't eat right away I would have the shake and then have my meal about 2 hours later just like you described and yes it would contain fat.

I think everyone's kind of on the same page here as far as what they do I just think we all kind of took the question a little differently
 
This is also why I'm a big fan of intra workout nutrition. I get my eaa and carbs during the workout making the post-workout meal a little less important. Or maybe not less important but just buying me a little bit of extra time because a lot of times I can't stomach a meal right after I'm done working out and I'll have to force it down
 
Smont said:
2 hours later isint the post workout meal in my opinion. I don't see anything wrong with eating fat 2 hours later.

And no disrespect but I'm not reading any of the links for the food studies because all the studies about food and nutrition change regularly year to year I have no faith at all in any studies related to nutrition unless it's held up for more than 10 years solid.

We all have to remember something, studies are great but they're just a tiny piece of evidence that points in a direction. For any study that someone finds that says product a is good and product B is bad there will be another study that says product B is good and product a is bad.

If you put that all aside for a minute, I agree with what you said a post-workout shake and then a solid meal 2 hours later there's nothing wrong with that. When I talk about that post workout meal I would be having mine about 20 minutes after my workout and it would be something like chicken and rice and I wouldn't be having a shake because I prefer real food over shakes any day. Put in a scenario where I couldn't eat right away I would have the shake and then have my meal about 2 hours later just like you described and yes it would contain fat.

I think everyone's kind of on the same page here as far as what they do I just think we all kind of took the question a little differently
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For the bold, exactly, I was just pointing out I think people need to gather a bit of information when responding to someone's question like this. I don't think answers were wrong, everyone usually just comes from where they are and add their own biases, so it was all useful depending on the context.

For the italics, I'd suggest (and I am not saying this to be rude) that you take some time and maybe try to understand how science works. It is complicated at times and if you think you are seeing seemingly contradicting things, it is because at times the root issue hasn't been so when we see conflicts we just haven't found the right reasons yet. If you see conflicts that seem as extreme opposites and constantly flip flopping it is more an issue of gathering the information from the science from secondary sources pushing a narrative and misrepresenting the facts. Science is constantly evolving, but we can't let misinformation make us disregard it.

Also, posting studies isn't always for the express benefit of those being replied to. Some people ignore science (their loss), but tons of people lurk forums and providing them with avenues to continue to look for their own answers as they stumble across this provides more benefit than just answering the original posters questions IMHO.
 
Kronic said:
imo the study that shows egg white + yolk is more anabolic than just white debunks this. common sense is telling me it probably depends on the fat source. animal sourced fats contain a lot of nutrients. I'd bet most plant fats like canola oil are bad tho.
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I am unsure if I would say it totally debunks the idea of limiting fats, but it does raise questions. If you read the whole food study (which cites the egg study) they talk a bit about potentially other nutrients that are with the fats that are maybe helping boost the benefits.
 
Here's a thing, bodybuilders and physique athletes in general are the most meticulous people on the planet when it comes to diet. If eating fats in the post workout window had an advantage they would all be doing it.

Honestly at the end of the day I don't really care because there's more than one way to skin a cat and if you guys want to eat fat post workout then eat fat if you guys want to eat carbs post-workout eat carbs and if you want to eat crickets post workout eat crickets it doesn't matter to me LOL.

I just know that when I'm looking to make physique changes as fast as possible for myself or for someone else, the game plan is simple, you eat like a bodybuilder. That's the way that I find most successful for myself and for other people but I'm not trying to discredit anyone else's personal experience because if you find something else works better for you, then it works better for you and I can't argue that.

We all need to do a little bit of experimentation to find out what works best for ourselves, we just have to make sure that we don't spend too much time experimenting and looking for magic bullets otherwise you switch stuff up so often that you never know what works.
 
Smont said:
This is also why I'm a big fan of intra workout nutrition. I get my eaa and carbs during the workout making the post-workout meal a little less important. Or maybe not less important but just buying me a little bit of extra time because a lot of times I can't stomach a meal right after I'm done working out and I'll have to force it down
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Same. 20 mins to get home from the gym, i slam a shake, take a shower, prep dinner, eat. I would prefer the latter, but i can't eat a full proper meal immediately after training.
 
Smont said:
This is also why I'm a big fan of intra workout nutrition. I get my eaa and carbs during the workout making the post-workout meal a little less important. Or maybe not less important but just buying me a little bit of extra time because a lot of times I can't stomach a meal right after I'm done working out and I'll have to force it down
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Im curious, what exactly do you consume intra workout to get eaa and carbs? You don't eat do you lol? I mean I've seen some crazy YT vids of people eating pizza and such at the gym, but its for laughs and giggles; i think.
 
FoxHound said:
Im curious, what exactly do you consume intra workout to get eaa and carbs? You don't eat do you lol? I mean I've seen some crazy YT vids of people eating pizza and such at the gym, but its for laughs and giggles; i think.
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Powdered eaa and bcaa, I mix the 2 to try to get the right amounts of each aminos, for carbs I use dextrose powder and if I don't have any dextrose powder I'll buy some gummy bears (the kind made from glucose syrup, not fructose or sugar) and I'll eat a handful of them in the middle of my workout.

Something to keep in mind here. If I was going to the gym just to train one body part where I'd be in and out in 30 or 45 minutes I wouldn't be super concerned about the carbs, but there's lots of times where I'm going to the gym and I'm lifting weights and then I'm finishing off that workout with rounds on the heavy bag or sparring and my workout can take 2 hours. Those are the times I make sure I have a lot of carbs.

Example, today I got a sparring session and after that il do some light leg work, some abs and maybe some farmers walks or suitcase carries. This workout is going to probably take an hour and a half. So il have 20gm aminos and 50gm carbs mixed in water. Il take a few swigs between rounds and then finish it during the rest of my workout. Then about a hour later I'll have some grilled chicken wraps with Greek yogurt and vegetables.
 
Smont said:
Powdered eaa and bcaa, I mix the 2 to try to get the right amounts of each aminos, for carbs I use dextrose powder and if I don't have any dextrose powder I'll buy some gummy bears (the kind made from glucose syrup, not fructose or sugar) and I'll eat a handful of them in the middle of my workout.

Something to keep in mind here. If I was going to the gym just to train one body part where I'd be in and out in 30 or 45 minutes I wouldn't be super concerned about the carbs, but there's lots of times where I'm going to the gym and I'm lifting weights and then I'm finishing off that workout with rounds on the heavy bag or sparring and my workout can take 2 hours. Those are the times I make sure I have a lot of carbs.

Example, today I got a sparring session and after that il do some light leg work, some abs and maybe some farmers walks or suitcase carries. This workout is going to probably take an hour and a half. So il have 20gm aminos and 50gm carbs mixed in water. Il take a few swigs between rounds and then finish it during the rest of my workout. Then about a hour later I'll have some grilled chicken wraps with Greek yogurt and vegetables.
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Awesome! The gummies sounds good and easy enough to consume intra, i literally thought you were talking about potatoes, rice, etc, lol. Ill give that a shot. What's the name of the gummies, you got a link?

Bcaa's... im still on the fence on those, read lots of articles saying they work, and even more articles saying its snake oil.
 
I’ve been doing gummy bears intra workout as well!…about an hour into training…gives a boost of energy and I swear makes a pump even better!…yes, glucose syrup has to be the first ingredient on the back…look, because a lot of em have corn syrup etc.

Dollar general has em for $1…the twin snakes are good too
 
Rad83 said:
I’ve been doing gummy bears intra workout as well!…about an hour into training…gives a boost of energy and I swear makes a pump even better!…yes, glucose syrup has to be the first ingredient on the back…look, because a lot of em have corn syrup etc.

Dollar general has em for $1…the twin snakes are good too
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I try to limit my sugar, so thats a no go for me. Speaking of... that energy spike is probably from all the sugar.
 
FoxHound said:
Awesome! The gummies sounds good and easy enough to consume intra, i literally thought you were talking about potatoes, rice, etc, lol. Ill give that a shot. What's the name of the gummies, you got a link?

Bcaa's... im still on the fence on those, read lots of articles saying they work, and even more articles saying its snake oil.
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All the gummies from the haribo brand I think have glucose syrup but the gold bears definitely do and you can often find them for a dollar a bag up to $5 a bag depending on the size. You can also just buy straight glucose syrup or powdered dextrose.

Don't eat whole food during your workout it's a terrible idea lol.

One day we had a deadlift competition and we called it deadlifts and donuts and every time you deadlifted you ate a donut. By the end of the day I had 12 donuts and six of them were Boston creams and I got sick as f*** that night 😂
 
InBat47 said:
I am unsure if I would say it totally debunks the idea of limiting fats, but it does raise questions. If you read the whole food study (which cites the egg study) they talk a bit about potentially other nutrients that are with the fats that are maybe helping boost the benefits.
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if you read my whole post, that's why i said that animal should fats have lots of nutrients.
 
Smont said:
All the gummies from the haribo brand I think have glucose syrup but the gold bears definitely do and you can often find them for a dollar a bag up to $5 a bag depending on the size. You can also just buy straight glucose syrup or powdered dextrose.

Don't eat whole food during your workout it's a terrible idea lol.

One day we had a deadlift competition and we called it deadlifts and donuts and every time you deadlifted you ate a donut. By the end of the day I had 12 donuts and six of them were Boston creams and I got sick as f*** that night 😂
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Lol Try doing tequila shots during a heavy dl session laughing 😃
 
FoxHound said:
Lol Try doing tequila shots during a heavy dl session laughing 😃
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I don't drink anymore but I've definitely drank during a workout. Like heavily. 10+ drinks during the workout.

We use to do lots of dumb stuff, and I don't regret it, it was fun. Lots of fun!
 
@InBat47 science science science.. if there’s something the BBing world has learned is that science doesn’t always simply apply in the real world like it’s written in the studies. Especially enhanced athletes and especially when mostly every studies were done on natural sedentary humans. Some were done on "athletes" but certainly not on guys running grams of gear, hgh and insulin and what not.

as smont mentionned… the most complete and outstanding diet coaches are in bodybuilding and if there’s a reason they play with fats like they do. Nobody said it was black and white and fats were BAD anyways.
 
FoxHound said:
Dud
Didn't realize how much sugar is in those. Ill stick my sugar free gummies. Placebo, right 😆
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The sugar is what you want in the workout window, specifically the types of sugar that can be used for glycogen, that is the entire point in eating them. At the end of the day every single gram of carbohydrate is sugar. Oats, sweet potatoes, rice ect. They all break down into Sugar.

You eating sugar free gummy bears will do nothing to benifit you.

In order to understand how the peri workout nutrition window works you firsr need to understand performance nutrition.

Your statement shows you don't understand performance nutrition.

I don't know a better way to explain it other then that the whole point of what we are doing here is maximizing glycogen and energy during the workout to build the most muscle possible. This is also how you stop catabolism. Working out is catabolic, glucose puts the breaks on catabolism speeding up the recovery process.



Sugar, or more specific dextrose or glucose is the key here.
 
Instead of everyone debating just try it for yourself, if you have been avoiding carbs intra workout or post workout and your eating fat post workout and you make the switch to only protein and carbs with the pre workout meal, then do eaa and fast carbs intra and post workout and give it 3-4months you will see the results for yourself.

Make a note that this does not mean eat crap or extra sugar, it's simply moving your nutrition around the workout. Total intake for the day will stay the same, nutrient timing will be all that changes. Eat like a bro.

You will so improvement in your body composition at the bare minimum . Will it be a Hugh difference? Probably not. But that little difference over months and years will add up, especially if your enhanced because as a enhanced lifter you can store more glycogen.

If you haven't ever tried something then you do t have a dog in the fight.

Don't be a sheep, dont do the whole he said or she said or this study says thing.

Be your own scientist and do the experiments yourself and then you will know what does and doesn't work.
 
And remember, I'm not saying this is the only way to make progress, of course it's not the only way, some guys can build muscle eating cake and protein shakes, that doesn't make cake and shakes the most optimal way tho.
 
Smont said:
Instead of everyone debating just try it for yourself, if you have been avoiding carbs intra workout or post workout and your eating fat post workout and you make the switch to only protein and carbs with the pre workout meal, then do eaa and fast carbs intra and post workout and give it 3-4months you will see the results for yourself.

Make a note that this does not mean eat crap or extra sugar, it's simply moving your nutrition around the workout. Total intake for the day will stay the same, nutrient timing will be all that changes. Eat like a bro.

You will so improvement in your body composition at the bare minimum . Will it be a Hugh difference? Probably not. But that little difference over months and years will add up, especially if your enhanced because as a enhanced lifter you can store more glycogen.

If you haven't ever tried something then you do t have a dog in the fight.

Don't be a sheep, dont do the whole he said or she said or this study says thing.

Be your own scientist and do the experiments yourself and then you will know what does and doesn't work.
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I agree, i definitely don't everything about bb nutrition. Im willing to try it and see if i see results.

What about natural sugars in fruit? I love my berries.

What are your thoughts on these dextrose brands? How many grams do you usually take intra if you were to use dextrose?
 

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FoxHound said:
I agree, i definitely don't everything about bb nutrition. Im willing to try it and see if i see results.

What about natural sugars in fruit? I love my berries.

What are your thoughts on these dextrose brands? How many grams do you usually take intra if you were to use dextrose?
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Fruit converts mostly to fructose, fructose does not convert and uptake very well as glycogen into muscles. All the carbs you think of as healthy are the opposite of what you want around the workout.

That's why bodybuilders eat white rice instead of brown rice, it's why they only eat small amounts of fruit. It's also why all the intra workout drinks on the market contain either HBCD or plain dextrose ect.
 
FoxHound said:
I agree, i definitely don't everything about bb nutrition. Im willing to try it and see if i see results.

What about natural sugars in fruit? I love my berries.

What are your thoughts on these dextrose brands? How many grams do you usually take intra if you were to use dextrose?
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Dextrose is dextrose. How much I use is irrelevant to you because you need to figure it what you need. And you wanna replace x amount of carbs from other meals to balance the carbs around the workout. 30gm of carbs from dextrose is a good place to start.
 
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Skip to 12 minutes if you want to hear only about intra workout or Peri workout nutrition with carbohydrates
 
But everyone do themselves a favor and just watch the whole video, this guy is a very good source of bodybuilding information no fancy bells and whistles. He's probably not as popular as some of the other YouTubers simply for the fact that he doesn't sprinkle in all the nonsense for people's entertainment purposes and he just gets to the point
 
I know bodybuilders like to be pretty adamant about macros all being the same, but I think plant fats vs animal fats have totally different results.
this study compares butter to some plant fats
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there was one study comparing cream to butter which was interesting. I can't find it right now. the butter had more effect on blood lipids. some could say that's bad, but it might mean it just "works" better.
 
Due to food sensitivity issues I cut out whey protein for 8 months, along with some other things. I can definitely say whey protein is better than plant based protein.
 
sammpedd88 said:
Due to food sensitivity issues I cut out whey protein for 8 months, along with some other things. I can definitely say whey protein is better than plant based protein.
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Definitely, it's not even slightly debatable In real world application to experienced lifters and athletes.

The majority of the so-called studies, you guys know how I feel about most studies but, the majority of studies are done with untrained individuals or elderly people or people who are severely nutrient deficient in the first place etc.
 
I'm churning fat data in my brain and I think there are the following different fats should behave fairly differently:
1. adipose tissue from animals. this is where you should find leftover dietary fat soluble vitamins
2. reproductive fats: eggs, milk
3. churned reproductive fats (absorb faster/more "effective")
4. tallow (rendered animal fat, not sure how it works different)
5. raw plant fats (whole avocado, coconut flesh)
6. saturated fatty plant oils (avocado oil, coconut oil)
7. whole edible nuts (i dont count flax seed as edible)
8. seed oils / illogical oils / polyunsaturated
 
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