What Happens if a Normal Person Does TRT?

[ucimigrate]

There seems to be so much talk of whether someone needs TRT or not.

1. What would happen if a normal person does TRT?

My guess is "nothing" major.

His LH would be very low, since he is getting external testosterone. His natural production would shut off.

But, his metabolism, muscle mass, strength, etc. would be the same.

2. If there is a true problem with the testes, would it always show in LH?

I see many hucksters, quacks, and even chiropractors misinterpret blood tests.

For example, they look at someone's T4 levels, and think the "thyroid looks depressed," but they don't look at the TSH.

I see the same thing with testosterone. Many of these quacks look at the normal numbers...300 - 1000, and interpret a score like 350 to mean "bad" or "sick" even if the LH is normal.

To me, it just seems like they are being very irresponsible, with ulterior motives.

 

[Renew1]

If by "normal", you mean having Testosterone in range ...

His normal Test production would stop (or almost stop).
And if he decided to try and start it back up, that may or may not happen.

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

There seems to be so much talk of whether someone needs TRT or not.

1. What would happen if a normal person does TRT?

My guess is "nothing" major.

His LH would be very low, since he is getting external testosterone. His natural production would shut off.

But, his metabolism, muscle mass, strength, etc. would be the same.

2. If there is a true problem with the testes, would it always show in LH?

I see many hucksters, quacks, and even chiropractors misinterpret blood tests.

For example, they look at someone's T4 levels, and think the "thyroid looks depressed," but they don't look at the TSH.

I see the same thing with testosterone. Many of these quacks look at the normal numbers...300 - 1000, and interpret a score like 350 to mean "bad" or "sick" even if the LH is normal.

To me, it just seems like they are being very irresponsible, with ulterior motives.

Well, you know.. before all the shutdown side effects, most normal guys going to go for TRT aren't going for low dose replacement only.. they will push to supra physiological levels 8-12 weeks to get the gains (why else risk shutdown). And sure the guys selling Tests for Test (haha) probably have a motive to push everyone this way.

And as Renew noted, this is a Russian Roulette as we age our hormones decline and by going through yo-yo phases of natural Test suppression, via exogenous hormones use.. then each time we are less likely to recover full T levels.. and just hasten our path to TRT anyway.

Yet I still took the plunge and did that, being 42 had my kids and would rather have regulated TRT levels than be in low/old man levels where I definitely had lethargy and not the same mojo as I had in 20-30's. Being the tallish ectomorph I could have benefitted from TRT and a good BB coach many a moon ago, but better late than never.

 

[ucimigrate]

@PoSiTiVeFLoW

Thanks for the opinion.

Although you are only one anecdote, can you share your experience:

1. Do you think it helped get you back to where you were in your 20's?

2. Did it actually help get more strength, more muscle, less bodyfat than even before?

(every "this old man tried TRT and see what happened" makes it look like it works more than just replacement)

3. Would you recommend it to people like me, who are in the low-normal medical range, but want to improve somehow?

My waking levels are around 320-350, which has always been low for my age. Many hucksters, alternative medicine doctors with ulterior motives, or uninformed opinions say that, even though within the reference range, it is still so low for someone who was in his 20's (at the time), now later 30's.

Yet, many fail to understand that reference ranges were developed on millions of people, with billions of data points, to be able to discern "acceptable" versus "unacceptable" to prevent and real deficiencies.

I know many chiropractors, etc. claim pseudoscientific "functional medicine" should allow someone to be more optimal, not just in the reference range.

However, that speaks more to their ignorance or outright deliberate deception than actual real medicine?
"Your regular doctor will say you are acceptable, but do it my way with vitamins and you will be better than that"

 

[match]

Don't listen to chiropractors about anything related to hormones.

It sounds to me like body composition is your main goal here (less body fat, more muscle), with an emphasis on less body fat.

I understand the lithium may have had a significant impact on your body comp. Have you talked to your doctor (the one that prescribed lithium) about changing to a different medication?

Perhaps a dietician could help you achieve your goals better than TRT could.

Just some ideas...

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

@ucimigrate reply below in >italics.
=
Although you are only one anecdote, can you share your experience:

1. Do you think it helped get you back to where you were in your 20's?
>Yes. Once age + other factors hit a certain point you get to "use it or lose it" and its much easier to recover and bounce back into training if I'm not in a "low T" state. I was athletic before, I so definitely notice and feel -10 to 15 years. I do moderate TRT, not even high dose. But keeps me at "high normal" instead of "low, but acceptable"
2. Did it actually help get more strength, more muscle, less bodyfat than even before?
>Yes, but that's also due to time + experience training + cooking better as I got older - versus me living off the military/university base 'chow halls' + EAS Myoplex lol.

(every "this old man tried TRT and see what happened" makes it look like it works more than just replacement)
> It's called photoshop + models. It will help you return to 'former glory' and maybe exceed only through rigorous training and diet. TRT or PEDs are an aid... not a free lunch, work is still required.

3. Would you recommend it to people like me, who are in the low-normal medical range, but want to improve somehow?
>Sure, but get comprehensive bloodwork, know what is means (metabolic, CBC, liver/kidney, cholesterol, and other middle aged male markers). The bloodwork will let you know..

My waking levels are around 320-350, which has always been low for my age. Many hucksters, alternative medicine doctors with ulterior motives, or uninformed opinions say that, even though within the reference range, it is still so low for someone who was in his 20's (at the time), now later 30's.
> See for me, this is when I feel meh, OK "low normal" but rates of recovery, healing, and energy levels are not the same as 700-900 range free test level feeling like I have mojo.

Yet, many fail to understand that reference ranges were developed on millions of people, with billions of data points, to be able to discern "acceptable" versus "unacceptable" to prevent and real deficiencies.
>Yep, for example - I had an anti bodybuilding endocrinologist lady, who initially stuck me with 60mgs/week for a 6'2" ~200lbs male. Sure this is like "apocalypse minimum" dosing, if I have nothing but survival gear (with TRT in them). That 60mg/s week of Test Cyp works when Test is rare, for health reasons.
>But geez, I'm 42, trying run a business, family, and workout too - kind of need "mid-high" normal so I can function like I'm 25 years old again.. physically for as long as possible (not some old man dose for min "acceptable" non-sense). In otherwords, F*ck this slow decline, like I'm some rotting fruit theory. Just my two cents on my anti-male lady endocrinologist. Getting my TX urologist to titrate my dose up in a few months.
>One can take things like Nutriissa cycle support and just moderately high TRT and your bloodwork will be perfect, unless you have underlying issues...

I know many chiropractors, etc. claim pseudoscientific "functional medicine" should allow someone to be more optimal, not just in the reference range.
>Why is a chiropractor advising on this, do they prescribe TRT? LOL, I wound up here because a chiropractor gave my buddy Super DMZ 2.0 some years back... Should be urologist or endocrinologist... that is both "anti-harm" + "pro-workout", not some old lady with an anti-male, axe to grind like I had in CA before.

However, that speaks more to their ignorance or outright deliberate deception than actual real medicine?
"Your regular doctor will say you are acceptable, but do it my way with vitamins and you will be better than that"
>Yep, it's all lawyers + statistical risk avoidance. A blood-work knowledgable, health minded TRT clinic (there are more advanced ones) will do "hormone optimization" and not just juice you up... if you don't do the urologist route. Regular docs still think Test = controlled substance, they try this minimalist approach + vitamins which is fine for 'sedentary folks'.

 

[BBiceps]

@PoSiTiVeFLoW

Thanks for the opinion.

Although you are only one anecdote, can you share your experience:

1. Do you think it helped get you back to where you were in your 20's?

2. Did it actually help get more strength, more muscle, less bodyfat than even before?

(every "this old man tried TRT and see what happened" makes it look like it works more than just replacement)

3. Would you recommend it to people like me, who are in the low-normal medical range, but want to improve somehow?

My waking levels are around 320-350, which has always been low for my age. Many hucksters, alternative medicine doctors with ulterior motives, or uninformed opinions say that, even though within the reference range, it is still so low for someone who was in his 20's (at the time), now later 30's.

Yet, many fail to understand that reference ranges were developed on millions of people, with billions of data points, to be able to discern "acceptable" versus "unacceptable" to prevent and real deficiencies.

I know many chiropractors, etc. claim pseudoscientific "functional medicine" should allow someone to be more optimal, not just in the reference range.

However, that speaks more to their ignorance or outright deliberate deception than actual real medicine?
"Your regular doctor will say you are acceptable, but do it my way with vitamins and you will be better than that"

1, No
2, Yes
3, No

 

[ucimigrate]

1, No
2, Yes
3, No

Thanks. My guess is that pharmaceutical testosterone, done at safe dose, monitored by a doctor, works better than the body's own production, purely for cosmetic purposes.

This is the same logic as being in pain and getting safe doses of morphine, monitored carefully by a responsible doctor. Sadly, that happened more in the past than now. Likewise, something like Vitamin D or Iron supplementation can help someone who has deficiency levels, much better than eating foods and letting your body produce it.

I will try again, when I know I am ready, and a responsible doctor can monitor me.

 

[BBiceps]

Thanks. My guess is that pharmaceutical testosterone, done at safe dose, monitored by a doctor, works better than the body's own production, purely for cosmetic purposes.

This is the same logic as being in pain and getting safe doses of morphine, monitored carefully by a responsible doctor. Sadly, that happened more in the past than now. Likewise, something like Vitamin D or Iron supplementation can help someone who has deficiency levels, much better than eating foods and letting your body produce it.

I will try again, when I know I am ready, and a responsible doctor can monitor me.

No, it won’t do anything cosmetic at those doses, diet and training will.

Yes, some vitamins can be supplemented because they won’t shut you down.

You’re not ready, you just looking for a shortcut.

 

[Screwtape]

(MPMD Voice) The advantage of trt is that you have a more stable blood concentration of testosterone, while natural production tends to be cyclical, being highest in the morning and increasing through the day. Also, if you have a bad night's sleep, a stressful day, or don't eat right, your test will still be stable on trt where your natural production would decrease.

 

[BBiceps]

Thanks. My guess is that pharmaceutical testosterone, done at safe dose, monitored by a doctor, works better than the body's own production, purely for cosmetic purposes.

This is the same logic as being in pain and getting safe doses of morphine, monitored carefully by a responsible doctor. Sadly, that happened more in the past than now. Likewise, something like Vitamin D or Iron supplementation can help someone who has deficiency levels, much better than eating foods and letting your body produce it.

I will try again, when I know I am ready, and a responsible doctor can monitor me.

Btw, let me clarify me answer to number 2, my body composure and strength increased but my “TRT” levels are way over the normal range. My Dr is ok with it as long as my other health markers stay in range but I wouldn’t seen this kind of results with a regular TRT dose.

 

[ucimigrate]

I see. I do miss TRT, just for the consistency of it.

I just was always worried about permanent damage to my heart, etc. or not being able to have kids.

1. Can anyone say something about that?

2. My wife and I agree to get a sperm bank, in a few months, before TRT. So, even if something goes terrible, we can still have kids?

3. I would appreciate anything mature. Any immature comments will only show that I cannot be open about my fears, etc. even though I understand we are on a public forum.

Thanks again.

 

[Kronic]

I see. I do miss TRT, just for the consistency of it.

I just was always worried about permanent damage to my heart, etc. or not being able to have kids.

1. Can anyone say something about that?

2. My wife and I agree to get a sperm bank, in a few months, before TRT. So, even if something goes terrible, we can still have kids?

3. I would appreciate anything mature. Any immature comments will only show that I cannot be open about my fears, etc. even though I understand we are on a public forum.

Thanks again.

1. a doctor would be your best bet. it's individual.

2. sounds expensive

3. sounding high e2. this is a normal thing to be concerned about

 

[sammpedd88]

I see. I do miss TRT, just for the consistency of it.

I just was always worried about permanent damage to my heart, etc. or not being able to have kids.

1. Can anyone say something about that?

2. My wife and I agree to get a sperm bank, in a few months, before TRT. So, even if something goes terrible, we can still have kids?

3. I would appreciate anything mature. Any immature comments will only show that I cannot be open about my fears, etc. even though I understand we are on a public forum.

Thanks again.

What do you mean, you miss TRT?

 

[ucimigrate]

What do you mean, you miss TRT?

When I was in the military, my doctor (very good, Air Force Academy trained), gave me Androgel for three months. I ended up doing it for the three months. I miss it.

 

[Kronic]

When I was in the military, my doctor (very good, Air Force Academy trained), gave me Androgel for three months. I ended up doing it for the three months. I miss it.

you can get that from most doctors. they do have bias but you should have it on your medical record that another doctor thought it was a good idea. if your doctor is steadfast against it, either trash your T before testing or get a new doc

 

[ucimigrate]

Honestly, I am not sure if I need it.

1. My levels in the morning have always been ~330 on the 300 - 1000 reference ranges that Americans use.

But, of the keynote, my LH is normal. If I truly had damage, my LH would be higher.

2. This reminds me of the thyroid. On that level, I have about a 5.5 on a 5-12 scale.

3. Too many laymen who think they know as much as doctors, play doctors, charlatans like chiropractors or other wannabe doctors etc. will say that is low for my age and shows I am sick, or even "you are screwed."

This reminds me of the Mark Twain quote, which essentially says "better to say nothing and might be thought a fool, then open your mouth and remove all doubt."

4. Rather, I think TRT is nice to have, even for regular, healthy people, as it keeps things stable, regardless of outside influences. It reminds me of the whole definition and purpose of homeostasis.

Rather, "am I sick?" "do I need it?" "can I take it safely, naturally, without side effects?" the answer to all of these are "no."

But, like many elective medicines (anti-depressants, HGH, hair transplants, etc.), they are still a nice thing to try, and may have more benefits than negative side effects.

I hope we can try.