Donald Trump running for president
- Thread starter LiftWithDonuts
- Start date
Jiigzz
Legend
Jiigzz
Legend
No, you didn't just "forget", you looked it up and learnt something new.
The whole point is you literally don't know. Steel doesn't just "regain integrity" when it has thousands of pounds of flooring, equipment and people sitting in top of it. It fails. And the energy from floors hitting the one floor below creates a chain reaction where the weight of all the preceding floors and ceilings overcomes the load capacity of the floors below.
The twin towers aren't the only buildings to have ever collapsed. Look up others and the surrounding data and you might learn something there too.
Psychologists reckon that people believe in conspiracies to increase their feelings of self worth and being involved in something. "Research has shown that people who do feel powerless and disillusioned do tend to gravitate more towards conspiracy theories"
ax1
Legend
Fires dont collapse buildings column to column at free fall speed all at the same time, thats why Building 7 is the key smoking gun. It was completely impossible. Maybe a wooden trailer or a tofu building in China, but Building 7 is impossible. Building 7 alone is complete proof that at least the government account of what happened that day was a complete lie. The only way they fell the way they did if you go by the science was a controlled demolition, even if it wasnt traditional.
ax1
Legend
Uh huh, at the Pentagon, LMFAO! This isnt your local gas station, and we have the Transportation's Secretaries testimony on record (they didnt bother including it in the 9/11 commission report as a matter of fact) Dick Cheney kept getting updates that something was approaching D.C. and he got mad when asked "do the orders still stand?" But he was busy hijacking NORAD before the first plane even hit and scrambling jets out over in the Atlantic for whatever reason, so what do I know? Speaking of which, I still wanna know where that 2.3 trillion defense spending dollars went that the audit was conveniently blow up on the computer server they took out.
But I just ran into my buddy, he believe's your little fairytales.
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BamBam54
Well-known member
Hey Jiggzz -are you hearing anything about this young adult sudden death syndrome? Some kind of heart arythmia thing maybe?
Would really lile to know how much of this was happening before vs after covid vaccines came out... because of the (stasticially rare??) documented heart arythmia side effect of the vaccine
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Would really lile to know how much of this was happening before vs after covid vaccines came out... because of the (stasticially rare??) documented heart arythmia side effect of the vaccine
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xR1pp3Rx
Legend
Ok so I read fast and skimmed, and I kind of see what both sides are trying to say here but I want to say something that everyone here is in denial about in relation to the plane thing. something isn't right about this whole thing and arguing about doesn't change the facts that something smells in Denmark.
for instance, today's modern bows shoot arrows at speeds approaching 400mph. the arrows don't disappear or vaporize when the strike a target, oddly they rarely go through things either.
a few yrs. ago there was that deadly crash out on the salt flats at speeds close to these planes and yet they recover the vehicles and bodies ect.
when they shoot a high powered rifle, with a bullet traveling 2500 mph the bullets are recovered for forensics studies to solve crimes.
we have actual video footage of planes hitting things like battle ships from the likes of bonsai pilots. you can see the listing and impact waves when the planes met their mark. you can see where there are tail pieces and wings sticking out in some instances.
Trains... what about high speed derailments?
the point is there is tons upon tons of science and video and engineering ect that would have to be denied as well as supported for either side you believe. for me, after seeing this stuff with an objective eye- I am not sold it happened the way they claim it did.
why is everything still classified ?
why do liberals get so pissed when you question the narrative?
ax1
Legend
So lets clear this up, I know you talked about it but what is it excactly you theorize may happen with the planes? Your suggesting holograms?
ax1
Legend
Do you think there is a difference between a battleship designed and built for war and to try to stay together from multiple missile shots vs a building that was designed to hold up on impact of a plane? Also, bonsai pilots flew small planes and slower speeds vs monster sized fuel tanked filled (planes were to fly a distance) jumbo jets flying at faster speeds.
xR1pp3Rx
Legend
I am not sure about the planes but as you said where are the blk boxes? where is the rest of the planes? I found the idea of holograms somewhat plausible after what we witness at the olympics and such. I also think maybe they had timed blast taking out the steel and concrete milliseconds prior allowing them to enter through pre-determined sections .
of course I do. we are also agreeing to assume that we all have at least a general grasp on reality here. wwII dog fighter weighed one tenth of that and likely reached speeds of high 3- low 400s speed in a full nosedive. I get it. But no one here is talking about how the towers were built. these were different in literally every way. you mentioned that the ships were designed to be attacked so to speak... well you need to look into the building principles and engineering stuff to see these towers were essentially not unlike standing battle ships with out weapons. how a plane which is made from the lightest (albeit very strong) materials was able to strike and penetrate, and then all of it disappears except the terrorists ID?
BamBam54
Well-known member
The twin towers stood for some time after taking a direct hit by the biggest US commercial airliner fully loaded with fuel. An amazing feat of engineering!
RESEARCH - how long did the towers stand after impact? What protection (hours) does spray-on fireproofing give to steel in commercial construction?
RESEARCH - how long did the towers stand after impact? What protection (hours) does spray-on fireproofing give to steel in commercial construction?
ax1
Legend
Not only did they take a direct impact from the commercial airliner but still stood as the bombs were detonate in the basement of the WTC complex. Really impressive. Then to keep holding up only until they made the call to detonate the rest of the explosions.
RESEARCH - how long did the towers stand after impact? What protection (hours) does spray-on non-thermite give to steel in commercial construction? Effects of directed energy weapons?
ax1
Legend
Maybe they werent the lightest of materials, but they re-directed the commercial airliners as a distraction and blew 3 planes up out of thin air instead of 1, using the 1 as a distraction and they Twin Towers were hit with hardened military airliner.
This is a theory I came up with on my own, least likely, but it should be considered.
xR1pp3Rx
Legend
5/8 sheet rock alone is 1.5 minimum and in this type of building was surely double layered rock. so a minmum of 3 hrs. but much likely closer to 5-6 even with out sprinkler systems and what not. the other thing is there was probably little if any wood in the interior construction, full steel framing through out. that means the walls are not particularly flammable.
ax1
Legend
1.5 aluminum, isnt that just wonderful. What happens when you put aluminum in a microwave?
You dont need fire to melt aluminum, there is better tech out there to pull that off.....only recently we have come public with testing directed energy weapon systems.
Check out some of the latest, they are working on proper cooling systems for their directed energy tech. Keep in my the government is always 25-50 years ahead of public knowledge.
Just 12 years ago I would talk about this stuff and people would say Im a tinfoil hat, and now people act like its all just normal shyts and beans.
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ax1
Legend
You soften and prep the surface prior to impact.
ax1
Legend
Oh if thats what you meant, thats certainly possible as well. There absolutely were detonations rigged up and down the entire WTF buildings. So they may have had a directed strike point and hit the detonations, and then accidently set off the ones in the basement slightly early if multiple ground zero accounts were accurate. They could have really worked the crap out of the building, detonations, bombs on plane as well as directed energy weapons to soften the steal especially aluminum. All possible.
We need to stick with the science here to find out the truth.
ax1
Legend
There were also radioactive isotopes detected at ground zero, so we can only imagine what the fuq they did to those buildings....But science is science.
BamBam54
Well-known member
Actually, NO.
A standard 1 hour wall assembly includes one sheet of 5/8 fire rated drywall on each side (see UL U419 for example). So each sheet is roughly a half hour (but there is no UL rating for one sheet on its own, they only rate "assemblies")
Spray on fireproofing is typically 1 hour protection, sometimes 2.
The towers stood for apx 1-1/2 hours after the fires started. Pretty much exactly per design... especially when you figure the plane took out some number of columns on impact.
No conspiracy theory needed.
No controlled demolition.
No substitute armored military cargo planes.
No giant space laser cannons.
The idea that all black boxes disappeared in the government cover-up was easily proven false. The molten metal was aluminum not steel. Windows blew out from the air pressure as the building floors collapsed downward. And none of the building fell at 'free fall' speed... which can be measured on video in frames per second.
Enough already.....!!! Sheeesh.
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xR1pp3Rx
Legend
Um no. totally disagree here.
you are specifing a wood wall assembly with a single layer of 5/8 either side.
that would be standard for residential. not commercial high rises.
BamBam54
Well-known member
Look up UL U419 which is a standard commercial metal stud wall, 1 hr fire rated, with 1 sheet of 5/8 type X each side.
If you have a different wall assembly in mind, let me know the UL designation and rating. Let's not just blindly guess....
xR1pp3Rx
Legend
this also doesn't take into account coatings and Fire draft stops. there are reasons they do those things beyond just how long it takes to burn through a sheet of sheet rock. the idea here being that the fire never has that long to burn against the drywall to begin with. in modern building construction they have paints that wont burn until they reach 15k degrees ... so that would take a lot more than carpet to get so hot. and if the 15k isnt sustained long enough to then burn through a 4 hr wall well then we have a problem with everything we have been sold. but thats in modern building practices, we cant use that here.
Jiigzz
Legend
Do you know what it takes to demo a building of that size? It's not exactly subtle work, even at the best of times.
Have you thought about that, at all? All the wires, the weakening of structural columns by boring through them and weakening of structural walls is definitely something people would notice, even if the work was done at night. It takes weeks and months to rig out and plan and a team of demo experts who haven't spoken out?!
Even in controlled demolition the upper floors do most of the actual work by collapsing, and using gravity to pull the rest of the building down.
The theory literally doesn't make sense.
Jiigzz
Legend
How protective are they against a jet flying into them? Asking for a friend
xR1pp3Rx
Legend
assuming its much like every plane crash footage we could use for reference the fuel would ignite almost instantly and while it would be extremely hot for a few seconds it's not what would be the problem. it's the other materials you would be worried about. the seat cushions and plastics.. It could have even had burning flesh adding to the heat. as I mentioned as well the building is much older so it likely would have relied on asbestos and monocoat and sprinkler systems. probably not as effective as some more modern build practices.
BamBam54
Well-known member
That is not standard 5/8" drywall
Now you are talking about a UL U490 type wall, with special 3/4" thick "Ultracode" gypsum sheets. You ever actually sling 3/4" rock in the field?
The fact remains that neither building was rated for over 2 hours of fire protection per the actual design used. Unless you have some WTC blueprints I don't know about.
And the building fell pretty much in line with design expectations for a raging fire, damaged columns, and spray on steel fireproofing that would be partially knocked off in a massive impact, and inherent human error during application.
No nano-thermite or energy blasting particle beam guns required.
ax1
Legend
Well yes, of course your pointing out the obvious that it couldnt have been a demo set up in a single day. Building 7 alone would take at least 3 weeks in advance with the best controlled demolition teams. Thats the whole point all along, being that (and Ill stick to Building 7) it is scientifically impossible for it to collapse via the official account of the Government/NIST, thats the whole basis that something else went on and why most people know 9/11 was an inside job.
Thanks for taking my side on 9/11 for a change.
BamBam54
Well-known member
Asbestos is also a part of the WTC story. Apparently due to developing asbestos concerns it was not applied above the 78th floor.
Good read here....
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ax1
Legend
What we learned on 9/11 on Manhatten is you dont even need to hit a steel structured building with a plane in the first place to totally collapse it. You can just take it down with matchsticks and maybe throw some party pop-its. Then tell people on the ground to back off because its going to blow up, Larry Silverstein announcing the official call to pull the building and have the BBC network accidentally declare its destruction an half hour before its destruction.
How people believe fairy tales I dunno, but people watch too much tv.
ax1
Legend
It was really sad how many ground zero and first responders died from it. First they were told the air was safe, and then when hundreds of them got sick they were told they have to prove they got sick from ground zero or die.
xR1pp3Rx
Legend
I've slung all the rock.. and really denzglass the worst of all of it. but, its not really 3/4s either. its barely thicker than standard 5/8
but that picture refers to standard type x fire rating which is 5/8 vertically installed with staggered seams fire taped between layers.
what's fun is doing lids (ceilings) when the taping crew is right in front of you while you cover over the wet mud.
Jiigzz
Legend
Let's use the b52 jet crash at Fairchild as an example. It's not a crash into a building, but it is at least a large plane crash that we have footage of.
How do you think drywall would fair against that?
Serious question.
ax1
Legend
Damn, never seen that one before. Someone made a comment that the pilot already had a history of dangerous flying and got in trouble for it. Wonder if true?
xR1pp3Rx
Legend
I honestly think you have lost the discussion here.
bam asked:
RESEARCH - how long did the towers stand after impact? What protection (hours) does spray-on fireproofing give to steel in commercial construction?
I answered that specifically ~ in tern of the fire rating in drywall applications
you can quit with the whole how do i think drywall holds up to a plane crashing through it. FFS go back under your troll rock.
BamBam54
Well-known member
Actually, your picture of a 4 hour wall doesn't matter if that is not the wall used to protect the steel columns in the twin towers. And it wasn't.
Remember the towers were built under 1968 building codes.
And a fire burning for that long (jet fuel duration plus the internal combustables that burned steady until the towers fell) combined with the impact of the plane (destroying some columns and damaging the fire protection on others) is the obvious cause for collapse. Its an engineering marvel they lasted as long as they did.
You can choose to believe whatever you want, but it's just being silly at this point.
Jiigzz
Legend
No it absolutely did not lol. Aeroflot flight 1492 caught fire on landing and the resulting inferno (look up the video) took firefighters 45mins to extinguish.
Watch the video again and b52s don't have black boxes - did you just make that up?!
Like why would you say there was a black box recovered when there wasn't even a CVR or FDR on the plane?
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xR1pp3Rx
Legend
i have literally agreed with most everything you have said. I in fact wanted your input and felt like you have nicely argued your position. I just have some questions. that doesn't mean I am right. nor does it mean we should just sweep those questions under the carpet.
BamBam54
Well-known member
Well said.
And thanks.
* remember some of my response is usually directed to our more [ahem] 'mystical' conspiracy experts
xR1pp3Rx
Legend
the black box statement was tounge and cheek. and no the fuel was the giant ball of flames that lasted all of 10 seconds, the rest of the fire that took longer to extinguish is exactly what I said before, the plastics rubbers foams and what not. the fuel is first to go.
ax1
Legend
WTF, They are putting this 1/6 bullshyt as a Prime Time TV hearing tonight? WTF, cant these shytfuq demosluts do something better with themselves to help our country? Nah, if they had free time they would be at the Pentagon striking up the next deals to ship more weapons over to Ukraine with our stolen tax money.