LGD water retention / bloating

[svida]

Does anyone have any strategies to reduce the water weight gain in the midsection on LGD-4033 cycle? I absolutely love this SARM cycle solo at ~15-20mg/day along with ~12.5mg/Enclomiphene daily. I refer to it as "physique in a bottle" where I pack on about 5lbs of weight in the first 3 weeks, mainly water as we all know! Would a topical transdermal such as VasoDry Pro from MPA Supps help or any other recommendations? I would prefer to not go very low carb... Thanks!

 

[svida]

Also, what is the sweet spot for Enclo dosage on an LGD cycle? 12.5 or 25mg daily or EOD? In the past I've used 25mg daily and my test values did not change whatsover, and no lethargy.

 

[Kronic]

technically don't you just want a diuretic to counteract water retention? you could try to split dosing twice a day too

 

[svida]

technically don't you just want a diuretic to counteract water retention? you could try to split dosing twice a day too

Thanks! I've actually heard that splitting the dosage works quite well. I'll give that a try!

 

[Smont]

technically don't you just want a diuretic to counteract water retention? you could try to split dosing twice a day too

No

 

[Smont]

Sorry I should have been more clear, You don't want to just take a diuretic, at least not a powerful one. That could cause more harm then good. Typically if your holding water on a sarm it's because of a crappy diet. There's no estrogen conversion so it's not from that. There could be something going on with aldosterone and that can be helped with a mild diuretic. Is your BP high?

 

[svida]

Sorry I should have been more clear, You don't want to just take a diuretic, at least not a powerful one. That could cause more harm then good. Typically if your holding water on a sarm it's because of a crappy diet. There's no estrogen conversion so it's not from that. There could be something going on with aldosterone and that can be helped with a mild diuretic. Is your BP high?

I'll have to monitor my BP more closely on this next cycle and my diet is pretty clean and healthy. I'm also stopping any Yohibimbe supplementation which may also retain water.

 

[Kronic]

is it silly to drink espresso to help with water retention?

 

[KvanH]

is it silly to drink espresso to help with water retention?

I'd say yes, but not silly to drink espresso in general

 

[KvanH]

Sorry I should have been more clear, You don't want to just take a diuretic, at least not a powerful one. That could cause more harm then good. Typically if your holding water on a sarm it's because of a crappy diet. There's no estrogen conversion so it's not from that. There could be something going on with aldosterone and that can be helped with a mild diuretic. Is your BP high?

I don't know what the mechanism is, but it seems to be very common for people to report water retention on LGD. I think there have to be something more to it, than diet, since it's so specific to LGD.

 

[KvanH]

Also, what is the sweet spot for Enclo dosage on an LGD cycle? 12.5 or 25mg daily or EOD? In the past I've used 25mg daily and my test values did not change whatsover, and no lethargy.

I'd go with the dose you've found working in the past. If trying lower dose, I'd make sure via bloods, that you're still not getting suppressed. That's pretty awesome to not get suppressed while on LGD, usually the serm doesn't work for preventing suppression for people running suppressive compounds.

 

[Smont]

I don't know what the mechanism is, but it seems to be very common for people to report water retention on LGD. I think there have to be something more, than diet, since it's so specific to LGD.

I'd like to know the brands of lgd these ppl are using, maybe there lgd is really a prohormone? I do know what your saying because I see ppl say this about lgd fairly often and it doesn't make sense. On paper there's nothing about lgd that should cause water retention. The reason I tend to point my finger at diet is being typically when a anabolic makes ppl hold water, if your diet is good you hold water in the muscle making you appear bigger and fuller, but when your diet is crappy you hold water sub q and get a bloated look. Now you can take a diuretic like @Kronic said. But keep in mind when we take those it doesn't know where its pulling water from. The diuretic is not going to specifically pull water from the bloated areas, it's going to pull water out your muscles and everywhere else too.

Low progesterone can also cause water retention, progesterone is like a natural diuretic in your body and when it's low you can hold water.

Something you can also try is taking a magnesium supplement and lowering your salt a little bit. That should drop off some water.

But outside of diet, high estrogen, low progesterone and aldosterone, what else causes water?

 

[Smont]

Another way to get a mild diuretic effect without taking a typical diuretic is taking

Vitamin B complex 2x a day
Vitamin B6 200mcg 2x a day
Dandelion root extract 500-1000mg 2x a day

 

[svida]

Another way to get a mild diuretic effect without taking a typical diuretic is taking

Vitamin B complex 2x a day
Vitamin B6 200mcg 2x a day
Dandelion root extract 500-1000mg 2x a day

Thanks! I'll give these a try as well!

 

[Drunken Master]

I'd like to know the brands of lgd these ppl are using, maybe there lgd is really a prohormone? I do know what your saying because I see ppl say this about lgd fairly often and it doesn't make sense. On paper there's nothing about lgd that should cause water retention. The reason I tend to point my finger at diet is being typically when a anabolic makes ppl hold water, if your diet is good you hold water in the muscle making you appear bigger and fuller, but when your diet is crappy you hold water sub q and get a bloated look. Now you can take a diuretic like @Kronic said. But keep in mind when we take those it doesn't know where its pulling water from. The diuretic is not going to specifically pull water from the bloated areas, it's going to pull water out your muscles and everywhere else too.

Low progesterone can also cause water retention, progesterone is like a natural diuretic in your body and when it's low you can hold water.

Something you can also try is taking a magnesium supplement and lowering your salt a little bit. That should drop off some water.

But outside of diet, high estrogen, low progesterone and aldosterone, what else causes water?

every sarm and every prohormone causes some water retention. those 3kg that magically appear on your scale in the first week.

but besides that, all that "LGD gives wet gains, RAD gives dry gains" is a bunch of bullshit that sarm sellers put out there so you have a distinction and try both. in reality LGD and RAD do about the same, and even LGD + RAD stacked does about the same as more LGD or more RAD. i know it because i went through a large stash of both, that i've bought when i was still green and believed in sarms. using it up while fed up with sarms already, but observing what they do critically and not from the standpoint of beeing green like most sarm users


LGD doesn't give you wet gains because it doesn't convert to estrogen. it's as dry as any sarm and it is a dry compound in the world of anabolics because it doesn't aromatize. it's just sarm sellers putting this bullshit out there using roid phrases that sound familiar like "dry/wet"

 

[bell1986]

Pretty sure LGD messes with potassium levels? I mind watching a clip of bloodwork and their potassium levels were well off (Low). The clip did mention to use coconut water etc to raise potassium and this balanced out the water weight gain. You can also buy a lo salt/no salt and just add it to your food.

LGD I'm sure is known to pack on water weight anyway. The extra water weight wil improve strength.

Your enjoying the cycle so far? I tried LGD and felt anxious and depressed. Took a good week to clear my body as well. I felt perfect after stopping. I've got a couple bottles just sitting their also. Sad as it will be going to waste!

 

[Smont]

Pretty sure LGD messes with potassium levels? I mind watching a clip of bloodwork and their potassium levels were well off (Low). The clip did mention to use coconut water etc to raise potassium and this balanced out the water weight gain. You can also buy a lo salt/no salt and just add it to your food.

LGD I'm sure is known to pack on water weight anyway. The extra water weight wil improve strength.

Your enjoying the cycle so far? I tried LGD and felt anxious and depressed. Took a good week to clear my body as well. I felt perfect after stopping. I've got a couple bottles just sitting their also. Sad as it will be going to waste!

Doesn't mess with my potassium levels and it's never put any water weight on me either. And I've used quite a bit of lgd over the last 3 years in oral and injectable form

 

[Smont]

Pretty sure LGD messes with potassium levels? I mind watching a clip of bloodwork and their potassium levels were well off (Low). The clip did mention to use coconut water etc to raise potassium and this balanced out the water weight gain. You can also buy a lo salt/no salt and just add it to your food.

LGD I'm sure is known to pack on water weight anyway. The extra water weight wil improve strength.

Your enjoying the cycle so far? I tried LGD and felt anxious and depressed. Took a good week to clear my body as well. I felt perfect after stopping. I've got a couple bottles just sitting their also. Sad as it will be going to waste!

Another thing, I've never heard of anyone getting mental side effects from lgd, is it a reputable brand? Maybe it was something else. I don't know for certain but I've just never heard of anyone experiencing that from lgd

 

[KvanH]

Another thing, I've never heard of anyone getting mental side effects from lgd, is it a reputable brand? Maybe it was something else. I don't know for certain but I've just never heard of anyone experiencing that from lgd

Unusual to me also, but there was a thread from another member who complained about the same thing with LGD. Also to note, and I absolutely don't mean this in any negative way, we're all different, but bell seems to be quite suspectible for mental side effects, from what I've gathered. Like the Arimistane issue and other stuff. I also got pretty bad anxiety from Osta myself and couldn't even make it through a week of Rad. The Rad was from UGL and some of their other stuff also made me feel off, so could be some 'productional issues'.

 

[Smont]

Unusual to me also, but there was a thread from another member who complained about the same thing with LGD. Also to note, and I absolutely don't mean this in any negative way, we're all different, but bell seems to be quite suspectible for mental side effects, from what I've gathered. Like the Arimistane issue and other stuff. I also got pretty bad anxiety from Osta myself and couldn't even make it through a week of Rad. The Rad was from UGL and some of their other stuff also made me feel off, so could be some 'production issues'.

At the end of the day, the "everybody is different thing" is going to be the answer for a lot of questions. If your prone to a certain thing then any kind of hormonal fluctuations or disturbances can trigger a problem.

 

[KvanH]

At the end of the day, the "everybody is different thing" is going to be the answer for a lot of questions. If your prone to a certain thing then any kind of hormonal fluctuations or disturbances can trigger a problem.

Very true. Only the sarms have given me problems thus far though.

 

[Smont]

Very true. Only the sarms have given me problems thus far though.

I believe it, sarms are not this free lunch ticket that everyone thinks they are. If everyone would stop worrying about the words prohormone and the word sarm and the word steroids and just look at them as a whole being performance enhancing anabolic drugs. They all work to some extent, they all have side effects to some extent and they all are supressive and unhealthy to some extent.

 

[Drunken Master]

I believe it, sarms are not this free lunch ticket that everyone thinks they are. If everyone would stop worrying about the words prohormone and the word sarm and the word steroids and just look at them as a whole being performance enhancing anabolic drugs. They all work to some extent, they all have side effects to some extent and they all are supressive and unhealthy to some extent.

the typical sarm cycle is basically just a micro dosed steroid cycle

you could have the same effect of what the sarm.community knows as the typical sarm cycle, with dosing a prohormone or an oral very low for 8 weeks

or you could probably do a pro hormone style cycle with a sarm if you would blast 100mg LGD for 4-6 weeks

i think if you want to do a sarm style cycle low dose of a proven oral is even superior. but only slightly. it's basically the same

 

[Uncle_E]

Sarms we’re much more profound to me before I experienced any actual AAS. Being a complete virgin to PED’s, I gained size, strength and definition from Rad and LGD. I didn’t understand why some people said that they were useless or not worth it. I’ve been on TRT for a few years now, run a few blast cycles and oral cycles of msten, anavar and tbol. Now I understand why some experienced users might think sarms are a waste of time. More test or low dose oral will do more than any sarm in my experience. That being said, I still have Rad and LGD on hand that I’m going to use in the future. I’m really interested to run the injectable RAD I have.

LGD gives me more of a smooth bulk/bloated look, Rad gives me more defined cut look.

 

[Drunken Master]

LGD gives me more of a smooth bulk/bloated look, Rad gives me more defined cut look.

LGD and RAD do about the same in my experience. lgd is stronger mg for mg

you probably read that somewhere on the internet..the difference is not that significant if there is any

what a look you have depends on your diet when taking a sarm since they both don't aromatize. becoming puffy is something you do on dbol or test without an AI. or trest lol cough cough

 

[Smont]

Sarms we’re much more profound to me before I experienced any actual AAS. Being a complete virgin to PED’s, I gained size, strength and definition from Rad and LGD. I didn’t understand why some people said that they were useless or not worth it. I’ve been on TRT for a few years now, run a few blast cycles and oral cycles of msten, anavar and tbol. Now I understand why some experienced users might think sarms are a waste of time. More test or low dose oral will do more than any sarm in my experience. That being said, I still have Rad and LGD on hand that I’m going to use in the future. I’m really interested to run the injectable RAD I have.

LGD gives me more of a smooth bulk/bloated look, Rad gives me more defined cut look.

It's dose dependent, go pin 50mg of injectable lgd or S23 per day for 4-6 weeks. You will find that to be stronger then a 50mg per day dose of many actual steroids. The problem is that at those doses they have the same risks and side effects and cost a lot more then traditional gear.

 

[svida]

As a follow up, I'm 7 weeks into my LGD cycle on a clean, lean bulk with a surplus of ~300cals/day, and I'm up about 6-7lbs. I've been able to keep some of the water retention off around the midsection. The challenge with these cycles is when taking enclo 12.5mg ED, my libido eventually disappears and my E2 tanks, though my total/free test stays consistent to baseline. Doesn't low E2 ultimately impact gains? Other than that, I feel and look great! My lifts and endurance have been stellar. Are there benefits to also supplementing with DHEA or should I perhaps switch to dosing enclo EOD at 12.5mg?

 

[Rad83]

Dermacrine, transdermal or oral 4andro would make that cycle much smoother/alleviate your issues more than “a serm on cycle” ….I stacked dermacrine and LGD, it was great. Pct was easy with a serm.

 

[bell1986]

Another thing, I've never heard of anyone getting mental side effects from lgd, is it a reputable brand? Maybe it was something else. I don't know for certain but I've just never heard of anyone experiencing that from lgd

Tried 3 different brands. 2 had COA's. I'm certain it was LGD? A lot of compounds effect me negatively in terms of anxiety. It's annoying as I do enjoy experimenting. So it could just be me personally? Though I have ran dbol before and just felt good and upbeat. Trt does the same also. If I take test to high then the anxiety slowly sets in.

I just have a brain that's prone to increasing norepinephrine very easily. If I use propranolol (Beta blocker) with these compounds and block norepinephrine then those anxious sides subside so i know the cause. L-theanine has been a god send for this though. I never use to rate L-Theanine until I properly gave it time to work and to notice it working. Awesome ingredient tbh. I use it everyday without fail.

I have a bunch of LGD sitting too and I don't plan to use it I've also tried Rad 140 and I felt fine on that. Infact I felt very good. Ostarine also makes me feel better.

Doesn't stop me experimenting. My anxiety is manageable and not debilitating. Out of all the sarms though LGD was by far the worst. I've tested it twice and had the same sides twice.

You ok with it? It's a great compound though. Apart from the anxiety I never noticed anything else apart from the weight increases very quickly.

 

[svida]

Dermacrine, transdermal or oral 4andro would make that cycle much smoother/alleviate your issues more than “a serm on cycle” ….I stacked dermacrine and LGD, it was great. Pct was easy with a serm.

Doesn't Dermacrine shut down natural test production? Can enclo stack with Dermacrine to avoid suppression?

 

[KvanH]

Doesn't Dermacrine shut down natural test production? Can enclo stack with Dermacrine to avoid suppression?

I think it can negatively affect test production, if dosed high and can add to suppression, when added to a stack. But it doesn't suppress T production nearly as strongly, as LGD. So I'd say the benefits of adding it in clearly outweight the possible negatives.

 

[Rad83]

I don’t find dermacrine on its own very suppressive,….I’ll put some on pre workout and have typically a better session, than if I hadn’t.

@svida, you should be running LGD high enough to warrant suppression, (without dermacrine etc.) otherwise it’s a waste, in my opinion.

I liked LGD at 24mg

 

[svida]

I don’t find dermacrine on its own very suppressive,….I’ll put some on pre workout and have typically a better session, than if I hadn’t.

@svida, you should be running LGD high enough to warrant suppression, (without dermacrine etc.) otherwise it’s a waste, in my opinion.

I liked LGD at 24mg

Ya, I always run LGD ~20mg+/day with 12.5 enclo/day which has had great, consistent returns. My main challenge is just that water bloat around the midsection which has been a bit more manageable with lower carbs and a more sensible calories surplus. I have found that the MPA Supps topical product "Vasodry" does seem to help a bit. The lower E2 / libido doesn't really bother me though I have concerns it may be reducing the overall gains I could be making..

 

[svida]

Update....I ran my cycle for about 10 weeks and I've kept around 4-5lbs of lean muscle, and perhaps 1lb of body fat which is going away now. I'm actually rather happy with the end results! After 6 weeks of ending the cycle, I just had bloodwork taken and I'm getting ready to start a new cycle with LGD 20mg/day split into 10mg morning and preworkout, 12.5 enclo/day, and 3-5 pumps of Iconic Formulations Dermacrine. I've read that the DHEA will increase estrogen and yield better results. Just LGD+Enclo keeps my test high though my estrogen crashes hard, which has limited gains signficantly. I've found that during the 3 weeks post cycle, I'm getting better gains when my estrogen levels increase. Does anyone have experience with this brand of Dermacrine and how many pumps is the sweet spot? For my weight of ~180lbs, the bottle recommends 3 pumps though I've heard from other users that 5 pumps is much better. Also, has anyone successfully ran a LGD+Enclo+Dermacrine cycle? I'll post my results and let ya know how it works. Thanks!

 

[Hyde]

Update....I ran my cycle for about 10 weeks and I've kept around 4-5lbs of lean muscle, and perhaps 1lb of body fat which is going away now. I'm actually rather happy with the end results! After 6 weeks of ending the cycle, I just had bloodwork taken and I'm getting ready to start a new cycle with LGD 20mg/day split into 10mg morning and preworkout, 12.5 enclo/day, and 3-5 pumps of Iconic Formulations Dermacrine. I've read that the DHEA will increase estrogen and yield better results. Just LGD+Enclo keeps my test high though my estrogen crashes hard, which has limited gains signficantly. I've found that during the 3 weeks post cycle, I'm getting better gains when my estrogen levels increase. Does anyone have experience with this brand of Dermacrine and how many pumps is the sweet spot? For my weight of ~180lbs, the bottle recommends 3 pumps though I've heard from other users that 5 pumps is much better. Also, has anyone successfully ran a LGD+Enclo+Dermacrine cycle? I'll post my results and let ya know how it works. Thanks!

Iconic’s Dermacrine is the gold standard for transdermal DHEA/Pregnenolone product. There’s about 5,000 threads on this board with people using it in different capacities if you search.

I would start with the recommended amount. See how you respond for a while, make sure your nipples are happy & you feel good. More isn’t always better; better is better. Some guys need loads of estrogen for optimal gains, some guys get gyno just saying the word estrogen.

 

[50Magnum]

Update....I ran my cycle for about 10 weeks and I've kept around 4-5lbs of lean muscle, and perhaps 1lb of body fat which is going away now. I'm actually rather happy with the end results! After 6 weeks of ending the cycle, I just had bloodwork taken and I'm getting ready to start a new cycle with LGD 20mg/day split into 10mg morning and preworkout, 12.5 enclo/day, and 3-5 pumps of Iconic Formulations Dermacrine. I've read that the DHEA will increase estrogen and yield better results. Just LGD+Enclo keeps my test high though my estrogen crashes hard, which has limited gains signficantly. I've found that during the 3 weeks post cycle, I'm getting better gains when my estrogen levels increase. Does anyone have experience with this brand of Dermacrine and how many pumps is the sweet spot? For my weight of ~180lbs, the bottle recommends 3 pumps though I've heard from other users that 5 pumps is much better. Also, has anyone successfully ran a LGD+Enclo+Dermacrine cycle? I'll post my results and let ya know how it works. Thanks!

How do you know your estro crashed from enclomiphene? Where did you source your enclomiphene from? I've seem from alot of bloodwork from pharma grade enclomiphene and it spikes estrogen just as high as clomid and sometimes even higher.

 

[svida]

How do you know your estro crashed from enclomiphene? Where did you source your enclomiphene from? I've seem from alot of bloodwork from pharma grade enclomiphene and it spikes estrogen just as high as clomid and sometimes even higher.

I've ordered Enclomiphene Citrate, LGD, and Ostarine from Nootropics Source for a few years and they've always provide solid products. Historically when I take Enclo standalone or during an LGD cycle, LH/FSH/T increase, and E2 is almost immeasurable which is also coupled with loss of libido.

 

[svida]

Iconic’s Dermacrine is the gold standard for transdermal DHEA/Pregnenolone product. There’s about 5,000 threads on this board with people using it in different capacities if you search.

I would start with the recommended amount. See how you respond for a while, make sure your nipples are happy & you feel good. More isn’t always better; better is better. Some guys need loads of estrogen for optimal gains, some guys get gyno just saying the word estrogen.

Thanks for the tips! I will stick with the lowest recommended dose of 3 pumps/day and measure bloodwork in 4 weeks. I originally performed a search and didn't find too many threads about stacking LGD/Enclo/DHEA together, which is why I left the inquiry here in my thread. I was around during the original Dermacrine release from Primordial Performance back in ~2013, and I've heard Iconic's formulation isn't as potent and folks have had to dose higher. I'm excited to see if this improves my LGD cycle!

 

[50Magnum]

I've ordered Enclomiphene Citrate, LGD, and Ostarine from Nootropics Source for a few years and they've always provide solid products. Historically when I take Enclo standalone or during an LGD cycle, LH/FSH/T increase, and E2 is almost immeasurable which is also coupled with loss of libido.

I would question their enclo, sounds like u got an AI. Seen mixed reviews about enclomiphene. Ive never hears someone crash their estro with enclomiphene. Sounds like someone threw in nolva and aromasin in there. A RC enclomiphene I ran before gave me similar sides with low E, found out their enclomiphene was a mix of a serm/ai

 

[svida]

I would question their enclo, sounds like u got an AI. Seen mixed reviews about enclomiphene. Ive never hears someone crash their estro with enclomiphene. Sounds like someone threw in nolva and aromasin in there. A RC enclomiphene I ran before gave me similar sides with low E, found out their enclomiphene was a mix of a serm/ai

Have you specifically seen mixed reviews about this vendor's enclomiphene? I've been using their product since 2019 and my bloodwork has always been consistent with estradiol nearly non-existent, which is < 5pg/mL instead of my normal 18pg/mL value on a scale of 7pg/mL to 42pg/mL. This entire time, I was under the impression that enclomiphene lowers estrogen though after re-reading the documentation it's actually the opposite where it can *increase* estrogen! Damn. This vendor also has a COA published on their website and their LGD has been amazing, so I assumed they were legitimate. Any idea why they would blend an AI with enclo?

Can you recommend a solid source for enclo?

 

[50Magnum]

Have you specifically seen mixed reviews about this vendor's enclomiphene? I've been using their product since 2019 and my bloodwork has always been consistent with estradiol nearly non-existent, which is < 5pg/mL instead of my normal 18pg/mL value on a scale of 7pg/mL to 42pg/mL. This entire time, I was under the impression that enclomiphene lowers estrogen though after re-reading the documentation it's actually the opposite where it can *increase* estrogen! Damn. This vendor also has a COA published on their website and their LGD has been amazing, so I assumed they were legitimate. Any idea why they would blend an AI with enclo?

Can you recommend a solid source for enclo?

**** no it aint supposed to lower estrogen like that, like any other serm it prevents estrogen from binding to certain receptors. But it doesnt lower it, it actually increases it like most serms. Even tamoxifen increases estrogen, it just blocks estrogen in the breast area more efficiently than other serms. Enclomiphene is basically just clomiphene. Clomid is a mix of zuclomiphene and clomid.

 

[svida]

**** no it aint supposed to lower estrogen like that, like any other serm it prevents estrogen from binding to certain receptors. But it doesnt lower it, it actually increases it like most serms. Even tamoxifen increases estrogen, it just blocks estrogen in the breast area more efficiently than other serms. Enclomiphene is basically just clomiphene. Clomid is a mix of zuclomiphene and clomid.

So given this info, should I cease using this enclo during this LGD cycle until PCT? It has been sustaining my T at baseline levels during cycle, and Dermacrine should increase estrogen.

 

[50Magnum]

So given this info, should I cease using this enclo during this LGD cycle until PCT? It has been sustaining my T at baseline levels during cycle, and Dermacrine should increase estrogen.

if you feel fine dont change anything. i know if my levels were at 7 it would suck ass.

 

[svida]

if you feel fine dont change anything. i know if my levels were at 7 it would suck ass.

We'll see if Dermacrine helps with my estrogen below 5pg/mL when taking this version of enclomiphene. My gains haven't been that great on cycle and my libido absolutely tanks, though I do have strength increase and muscles are definitely fuller/pumped with a few lbs of water retention. Please let me know of a quality source to purchase enclomiphene in the future. Thanks for all the advice!