4-dhea

[50Magnum]

I know most people say this is just used as a base for prohormones/sarms, but is it anabolic on its on or for the most part just used as a base? I know it has a low conversion to test, so why would people throw this in when they can use reg dhea??

 

[WesleyInman]

4-dhea is a ProHormone. Most people confuse the term "ProHormone" because when PH's were sold, it was commonly an active steroid being sold under the same term. For instance MSTEN or DMZ are designer steroids that were never specifically categorized as AAS, and they were sold under the term ProHormones.

4-andro converts to Testosterone at a higher rate then 5-dhea or standard DHEA. IT is therefore superior for muscle gain, strength and bodyfat loss. It converts to Estrogen or DHT in very small rates compared to say injecting testosterone.

Orally it's not super bio-available but you can find it as a topical which has a greater bioavailability and absorption %

Like PH's or steroids, 4-DHEA is suppressive, though of course much milder then INJ TEST>

 

[50Magnum]

4-dhea is a ProHormone. Most people confuse the term "ProHormone" because when PH's were sold, it was commonly an active steroid being sold under the same term. For instance MSTEN or DMZ are designer steroids that were never specifically categorized as AAS, and they were sold under the term ProHormones.

4-andro converts to Testosterone at a higher rate then 5-dhea or standard DHEA. IT is therefore superior for muscle gain, strength and bodyfat loss. It converts to Estrogen or DHT in very small rates compared to say injecting testosterone.

Orally it's not super bio-available but you can find it as a topical which has a greater bioavailability and absorption %

Like PH's or steroids, 4-DHEA is suppressive, though of course much milder then INJ TEST>

Yea but I hear people who dose 300mg of this stuff per day and all they get is spiked estrogen, and low conversion to test. What is the conversion orally for 4 dhea since it is a 2 step, 5%?

 

[Smont]

Yea but I hear people who dose 300mg of this stuff per day and all they get is spiked estrogen, and low conversion to test. What is the conversion orally for 4 dhea since it is a 2 step, 5%?

So here's the problem, you hear ppl say this, but how many ppl using Andros are getting bloodwork, I'd bet slim to none. Few that are getting bloods were probably already on trt.

So all these ppl reporting high estrogen and low test conversion, are most likely guessing in the first place.

That being said, estrogen is very necessary and very beneficial on your cycles.

And regular dhea does a poor job at converting to everything if I'm not mistaken. It kinda randomly chooses what it wants to turn into.

What is the actual point of the question, are you wondering if you can use regular DHEA instead of 4DHEA?

 

[Smont]

@thebigt

I know it's gonna be skewed because you were on trt, but didn't you have bloodwork while adding 4 Andro? If so how much did your T and E change?

 

[thebigt]

@thebigt

I know it's gonna be skewed because you were on trt, but didn't you have bloodwork while adding 4 Andro? If so how much did your T and E change?

can't remember exact numbers but it was close to Double-give or take. i was also using epiandro and estrogen was well within range even including my 100mg weekly test cyp injection--i should mention that i've never been prescribed AI and wasn't using any otc AI, so the theory that 4-andro will convert to mostly estrogen was baloney, at least in my case...

i should add that i am a big fan of alpha four and was really disappointed iconic had to DC it but it can still be found at strong supplement store.

 

[50Magnum]

So here's the problem, you hear ppl say this, but how many ppl using Andros are getting bloodwork, I'd bet slim to none. Few that are getting bloods were probably already on trt.

So all these ppl reporting high estrogen and low test conversion, are most likely guessing in the first place.

That being said, estrogen is very necessary and very beneficial on your cycles.

And regular dhea does a poor job at converting to everything if I'm not mistaken. It kinda randomly chooses what it wants to turn into.

What is the actual point of the question, are you wondering if you can use regular DHEA instead of 4DHEA?

Yes like if ur running a sarm or designer. Also wanted to know if 4dhea had any anabolic properties because it is much mre exp than reg dhea.

 

[Smont]

Yes like if ur running a sarm or designer. Also wanted to know if 4dhea had any anabolic properties because it is much mre exp than reg dhea.

I personally would not rely on plain dhea, but if I was running something with no estrogen conversion "like a sarm or dht based designer" then I guess getting some estrogen from dhea would be better then nothing. Estrogen is anabolic as well as it increases the anabolic response to exercise. But, I'd much rather rely on the 4 Andro to fill my needs as it should do a better job maintaining energy and sexual function as well as add some extra potential for muscle gain

 

[Smont]

4dhea>dhea>nothing

 

[50Magnum]

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So this guy has used TD 4 dhea with his trt and his test levels doubled, some other person he mentioned just used this stuff by itself and had really high test levels. Anyone on here do bloodwork with oral 4 Dhea of TD without being on TRT?? I looked at all the threads on here and it looks like 4dhea isn't really popular on this forum because of its conversion rate.

 

[thebigt]

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So this guy has used TD 4 dhea with his trt and his test levels doubled, some other person he mentioned just used this stuff by itself and had really high test levels. Anyone on here do bloodwork with oral 4 Dhea of TD without being on TRT?? I looked at all the threads on here and it looks like 4dhea isn't really popular on this forum because of its conversion rate.

i truly believe those who are knocking 4-andro have never actualiy used it and or gotten bloods to back this up-most likely they read it somewhere and are just going by this...in effect being on trt and doubling test and still keeping estrogen within range should tell you all you need to know about conversion rate.

 

[WesleyInman]

We know that 4-dhea is absolutely more potent then 5-dhea for fact. So you can then look at this study on DHEA aka 5-dhea using 100mgs. Most guys using 4 andro are going to use a much higher dosage then this. So it is safe to assume that the user will "likely" obtain not only at the very least of this study but significantly more impressive result.

4-Andro absolutely can be used as HRT and put the user in an elevated T level compared to say a lower or deficient level aka Hypogonadal state.

The effect of six months treatment with a 100 mg daily dose of dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) on circulating sex steroids, body composition and muscle strength in age-advanced men and women
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Measurements: Fasting early morning blood samples were obtained. Serum DHEA, DS, sex steroids, IGF-I, IGFBP-1, IGFBP-3, growth hormone binding protein (GHBP) levels and lipid profiles as well as body composition (by DEXA) and muscle strength (by MedX testing) were measured at baseline and after each treatment.


Results: Basal serum levels of DHEA, DS, androsternedione (A), testosterone (T) and dihydrotestosterone (DHT) were at or below the lower range of young adult levels. In both sexes, a 100 mg daily dose of DHEA restored serum DHEA levels to those of young adults and serum DS to levels at or slightly above the young adult range. Serum cortisol levels were unaltered, consequently the DS/cortisol ratio was increased to pubertal (10:1) levels. In women, but not in men, serum A, T and DHT were increased to levels above gender-specific young adult ranges. Basal SHBG levels were in the normal range for men and elevated in women, of whom 7 of 8 were on oestrogen replacement therapy. While on DHEA, serum SHBG levels declined with a greater (P < 0.02) response in women (-40 +/- 8%; P = 0.002) than in men (-5 +/- 4%; P = 0.02). Relative to baseline, DHEA administration resulted in an elevation of serum IGF-I levels in men (16 +/- 6%, P = 0.04) and in women (31 +/- 12%, P = 0.02). Serum levels of IGFBP-1 and IGFBP-3 were unaltered but GHBP levels declined in women (28 +/- 6%; P = 0.02) not in men. In men, but not in women, fat body mass decreased 1.0 +/- 0.4 kg (6.1 +/- 2.6%, P = 0.02) and knee muscle strength 15.0 +/- 3.3% (P = 0.02) as well as lumbar back strength 13.9 +/- 5.4% (P = 0.01) increased. In women, but not in men, an increase in total body mass of 1.4 +/- 0.4 kg (2.1 +/- 0.7%; P = 0.02) was noted. Neither gender had changes in basal metabolic rate, bone mineral density, urinary pyridinoline cross-links, fasting insulin, glucose, cortisol levels or lipid profiles. No significant adverse effects were observed.


Conclusions: A daily oral 100 mg dose of DHEA for 6 months resulted in elevation of circulating DHEA and DS concentrations and the DS/cortisol ratio. Biotransformation to potent androgens near and slightly above the range of their younger counterparts occurred in women with no detectable change in men. Given this hormonal milieu, an increase in serum IGF-I levels was observed in both genders but dimorphic responses were evident in fat body mass and muscle strength in favour of men. These differences in response to DHEA administration may reflect a gender specific response to DHEA and/or the presence of confounding factor(s) in women such as oestrogen replacement therapy.

 

[rob112]

Any idea what’s the best deal on this stuff? You can just name a product if you want I can search.

 

[WesleyInman]

Any idea what’s the best deal on this stuff? You can just name a product if you want I can search.

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My code "WES15' Gets you 15% off this:
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GUARANTEED ABSORPTION. NO NEEDLES, NO PILLS, NO LIVER STRESS!
Prohormones – Topical vs. Oral Administration
Although comparable to oral-dosage forms in efficacy, topical creams have numerous advantages over oral forms. First, topical administration avoids the first-pass effect of metabolism associated with the oral route. Therefore, topical administration allows for much higher and improved bioavailability. Second, topical administration allows prolonged release of prohormone compounds, which can improve adherence. Third, topical administration minimizes adverse effects due to lower prohormone peak concentrations. Prohormones are very effectively removed by the liver when taken orally. This means that much higher doses, ten to twenty times higher, must be taken when administering prohormones orally, as compared to topical administration that avoid the first pass effect of the liver.


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[50Magnum]

Hows the suppression on 4 dhea though compared to something like epi andro or randro?

Also with the transdermals dont you need to apply with latex gloves and then have the solution dry ok your skin for 5 mins before putting clothes on?

 

[cheftepesh1]

Hows the suppression on 4 dhea though compared to something like epi andro or randro?

Also with the transdermals dont you need to apply with latex gloves and then have the solution dry ok your skin for 5 mins before putting clothes on?

When I have used I didn’t have much suppression as I’ve heard some people have. As far as gloves I never use them. I find I can get more on the body bare handed. It seems to work well for me.

 

[thebigt]

iconic formulations was forced to DC Alpha Four...it was the best 4-andro ive used, and the added bonus was the androsterone which covered the estrogen conversion by increasing dht

alpha foru can still be found at several retailers including AM sponsor strong supplements shop.

Alpha Four gets my personal thumbsup from having ran it several times.

 

[Rad83]

4 andro shines to keep ya good, when you run a suppressive designer or sarm…